After seeing the preview of the second comic, I have to say, I like how they've done Chrysalis' awesome diggs. I much prefer the East European gothic castle than to the baseless fanon hive or hive-mind. Okay, if you know me, you know I've gone on about this a thousand times, but check the title, because this is what this topic is going to be about that very subject.

So as states, yes, I hate the hive-mind idea that many have come up for the Changeling species. Why? I mean, after all, the Changelings are insectoid and so a hive-mind does make sense, right? Well, yes and no. True, the Changelings are at least part insect and the whole Bee People, Hive-Mind concept has its place in popular culture, but not all insects have a hive mind of system and the Changelings are also at least part equine; the ratio just isn't definite. The truth is, the hive-mind/sytem for the Changelings has no concrete canon evidence to really back it up, so it's a tad confusing why so many people in the fandom think of it as fanon, or canon, or whatever (I'm not all that great with those terms).

However, whilst there is little evidence for it, there is also evidence against it and reason why it shouldn't be so for the sake of the Changelings themselves and the plotlines.

Okay, so what's my personal gripe about the theory? Mine is mostly because of how much them having a hive-mind/system limits what you can do with the Changelings in terms of writing and story. A hive-mind or them all being her children (which comes with the hive-sytem) takes away the ability to show Changelings as individuals and in their own groups of friends and family. If it were a hive-mind, the only way to show one as an individual is to have him break out of it (don't think that's possible), but even then, that isolates him from his own kind and we don't get to see how they interact with each other.

I just think we can do so much more with the changelings than just saying "they all live in a hive, have no individual thought or character except for Chrysalis, and are all her offspring. Done."

There are other points made by fellow fans I've talked to about this issue.

Alondro

"Not to mention, it makes it far too easy to defeat the changeling race. Kill queen = game over. And to offset that, there has to be all sorts of rigmarole written in to prevent that from happening too quickly. You can't have direct confrontations with the Queen, because any pony with any sense of strategy will do everything possible to kill her the instant she's in view. And the Queen, if she has any brains, will never let herself come into view of any pony for that very same reason. Even seemingly secured, one can't be sure that the pony prisoners don't have a secret, undetectable assassination weapon or spell.

Now, that could be offset by having other changelings assume the form of Chrysalis to draw out the assassins and reveal their secrets... but at that point everything gets really complicated and you have to wonder, "Why am I writing this story with colorful ponies again?"

Because honestly, that type of story doesn't work at all with the setting. It's like crossing Care Bears with James Bond."

That, and Chrysalis would then be living in a constant state of panic and fear of death, knowing that hundreds, if not thousands of ponies are actively plotting to kill her and that if she does die, then her entire species goes out with her. She'd be a jibbering wreck.

--

Twilight is Magic

"It makes perfect sense for changelings to be independent individuals. After all, in order to simply feed, they have to infiltrate a society of sentient beings, and each case of that infiltration is necessarily unique. A single hive mind simply wouldn't be able to handle so many simultaneous, highly complicated individual cases. Their very being necessitates being capalbe of independent judgement and action, and also quite a bit of 'people (pony?) skills'.

While changelings may very well have some sort of way of contacting each other and/or the Queen, it would only make them a species of individuals with some telepathic abilities. It'd also make for a greater coordination. In A Canterlot Wedding, they didn't display much of that coordination, which is evidence against both the hive mind theory and this telepathy.

The changelings in my so far only story sort of straddle the line. The rank and file changelings are isolated individuals, but Chrysalis can contact the Changeling Commander and thus give orders to her army while not being physically present. Based on their actions in A Canterlot Wedding, when the changeling army attacked at just the right time without any real way of seeing why the time was right, their actions could possibly be explained by this sort of 'uplink'."

--

Wow, this is getting lengthy, best wrap it up. So this is my and a few other fans reasons for not believing in the hive-mind theory for changelings, and by the looks of the comic, it may not either. What I ask you reading this is what you think of the theory? Do you have other arguments against it or alternatively for it?

587505 Because there are multiple groups for changelings and so ensures those who write about them can see the thread while other don't. It just covers up loose ends.

587518 Aah. My bad. I thought you just kept posting the same thing in the same group.

587498

I'd have to agree with you on most points there, if not all. It is, however, a very ambigious issue, so it's important to remember that as there is no canonical example of what they're actually like, what best serves any particular story is a key thing to keep in mind. Want mooks and an autonomous, faceless legion? Changelings. Want complex societal contrast/comparisons? Also changelings. They're a good working template for a lot of different things for a lot of different stories. All that said, unless a story specifically intended to go the hive-mind route for a given reason, I wouldn't really see any reason to default to that. Even the telelpathy thing sits iffy.

...by her holey hooves, I think I love changelings

587498

There aren't any arguments for or against, because there's no canon information about what they really are. It's up to the author to fit them into the story as they see fit.

I just think we can do so much more with the changelings than just saying "they all live in a hive, have no individual thought or character except for Chrysalis, and are all her offspring. Done."

From taking a quick look at some of the more popular changeling stories that I know off...

Thrown Abroad and its sequel My Little Changeling : Friendship is Weird - No hive-mind, individuals.
An Affliction of the Heart and its sequel An Affliction of the Heart 2 - No hive-mind, individuals
Mirrors Image - Hive-mind, partial individuals.
Flitter - Very, very minor form of hive-mind, individuals.
Smoke and Mirrors - Partial hive-mind, individuals.
Fun with Changelings - Full hive-mind, not individuals.
My Little Behemoth - No hive-mind, individual.
Love Mine - No hive-mind, individual.
Back to the Swarm and its sequels The Braggart and the Bug and Bug In The City - No hive-mind, individuals.
Without a Hive - No hive-mind, individuals.
Then they found Us - Hive-mind, sort of individuals.

... me thinks you're finding a problem that isn't actually there.

I like both depictions, because I'm more interested in the story that the author is spinning, than limiting everything to a narrow margin of whats allowed.

I'm using these critters in my story and I stopped short of giving them a hive mind. They're pseudo-psychic but I just cast them as emotion readers because ???? profit. If we don't ever actually see where they came from, I think it gives them a sense of mystery. They did have a few rapidly constructed 'base camps' ... but they aren't really supposed to represent their true home. Heh.

More importantly, even with a hive structure I think people tend to overlook the complexity of it. It's not just a queen and drones. Every different animal we think of as being hive minded.... bees, ants (and some mole rats, oddly) all have different approaches. Even in particular species or subspecies! I wouldn't be surprised if there were variations on any given population. But yeah. You can actually break it down by organization, then role, then by individual. Hive Mind doesn't just mean they're all mentally synchronized and live in piles. The show depicts mostly what we'd think of as drones, and even then some of them exhibit individual traits. I don't actually explain the breakdown I'm using in my story, but I hope it's somewhat apparent.

I agree with the sentiment that Changelings don't have a hive mind, but my theory is they have a group mind. Why? They used almost no instructions during the invasion, so they must have been using telepathy. I could be wrong, but just for clarity: A group mind lets you retain your individuality, but you still have a connection to the other members.

587498 I completely agree with you. I think that a hive mind approach is extremely limiting as far as storytelling and characterization. I also think that the invasion of Canterlot was too complicated to have been done with a hive mind, and that it was most likely extensively planned and scouted through the efforts of multiple unnamed individuals.

They used almost no instructions during the invasion, so they must have been using telepathy.

Personally I think that most of the communication was done either beforehand or behind the scenes. We didn't see any of it because they're just that stealthy.

In a story that I'm writing, part of the background info involves a revolution that overthrew Queen Chrysalis's government. Kind of hard to do under a hive mind.

The Changeling invasion force had officers in its ranks:

That means a hierarchical delegation of authority, a command and control system. A hive mind wouldn't need such a thing