I've been having an argument with a friend of mine for some time now, and we haven't been able to come to a conclusion. They say that Gilda is a "bitch" and an overall "Nasty creature". But I feel that she has been falsely accused. I detailed my opinion in "In Defense of Gilda the Griffon", and I feel this whole situation has been misinterpreted. But I want to know, what do you think?

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You're in a fan fiction community. Draco in Leather Pants is in full effect for every villain, ever.

So yeah, (almost) everybody here agrees with you. Conversation over, moving on.

2113182 Some people disagree.

2113163 Gilda might be a bitch, but she's nowhere near as bad as Sunset Shimmer.

2113163 She is not evil...she is just a bully...or a jerk.

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Is the Gilda the Griffon bad?
Um, yeah.

2113163 the way she treated Pinkie Pie early on was unacceptable.

She got what she deserved

2113271 See link in first post.

Is Gilda the Griffon a Villain?

No, she's just an antagonist.

Is she a bitch? Well, yes. Gilda is at least some degree of a bitch. It's one of her principle character traits, but that doesn't mean it's her only character trait.

2113271

Early on, nothing. She was never nice to Pinkie Pie. Rainbow Dash admitted that she, and not Pinkie Pie pulled all of the party pranks on Gilda. Pinkie threw her a nice party, like she would do for anypony.

Even without the party antics, she's not particularly nice to anypony besides Rainbow Dash: Lightning Bolt and Granny Smith can attest to that.

That said, Gilda's as redeemable as any antagonist (Diamond Tiara, Flim & Flam, Trixie), just as long as the writer makes it believable.

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I think it's always possible to construct an argument for or against virtually anything if you just try hard enough. Especially something that involves a degree of subjective enterpretation. There comes a point when you are trying too hard, however.

What actually matters, I think, is that the intended message of that episode was that Gilda is a terribly unpleasant individual. That was what the writer was trying to get across, and pretty much the whole point of the story.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of alternative character interpretation, of course, but "alternative" is the key word in that phrase.

2113320 I do respect your opinion but I honestly don't get it. It's clear that Gilda was positive to begin with, it's Pinkie that was in the wrong.

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I prefer her as kind of a bitch, and honestly in the case of her acting toward Pinkie, she had it coming she was being annoying and taking away from her time with a friend she hasn't seen in years.

2113325 I don't think the fandom would exist today if we just followed along with what the writers initially meant. The fact is, the writer gave enough evidence to suggest that what we actually see isn't the truth, it actually lies in the subtle nuances sprinkled in throughout the episode.

But I see that the way I worded my initial question, your definitely closest to the "canonical" explanation.

2113163 Long story short: no. She's an antagonist, yes, but the very minimal amount of background she's given leaves a lot up to interpretation. Some people have written her as just a completely evil bitch, some like myself have written her as a cynical but not bitchy, and others have, for some reason, written her as RAINBOWS AND LOLLIPOPS.

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I have read your "In Defense of Gilda the Griffon", and I must agree with some of your arguments. However, I dislike Gilda not only for her attitude towards Fluttershy (who even said sorry for bumping into the griffon, but still got yelled and roared at, which made her cry! NO ONE MAKES FLUTTERSHY CRY!) but also because she is arrogant and has anattitude of a bully.

You're saying in your defence of her, that taking one apple shouldn't be such a big deal? Stealing is still stealing, no matter if you took an apple from an orchard or stand, where there are dozens of them, or taking a bar of gold from a bank vault. It would be different if she was starving, but otherwise it's just plain thievery.

Why the scene with Fluttershy is the main factor of so many people (including me) disliking Gilda? Because Fluttershy apologized for bumping into her, but Gilda yelled and yelled at her, like she had some anger issues! From such a small bump she made a really big deal out of it, like "How dare you bump into me like that, you dimwit!" But it wasn't enough for Gilda to yell at the scared pegasusn oh no! She had to roar at Fluttershy with all her might, like she wanted her to cry! If this doesn't show a nasty and uptight attitude, then I don't know what does!

I'm not going to say anything about Pinkie's party or Rainbow's 'supposed' pranks, because to me it all looked like a vengeance of Karma.

Therefore, no matter what you say, until I see Gilda's changed her nasty ways and attitude, she will remain as one of the disliked characters to me. I won't flame anyone who likes her (though I would wonder why) or write about her in some very disgusting way, but right now there is nothing that could've convinced me to change my opinion of her.

2113163 There's a difference between a bitch and a villain.

Gilda's an asshole, plain and simple. No getting around that. Yes, Pinkie's annoying as hell, but that's a strawman argument; it has nothing to do with Gilda.

Also, theft, and everything.

2113483 I don't think that you read my post, I think you skimmed it. In the part about stealing the apple I said that what she did wasn't good, and that thievery isn't right. But what she stole should be taken under consideration.

She stole an apple.

A fruit that is mass produced by the orchard outside of town. They cost less than a dollar in the real world and probably less than a bit in Equestria.

So while her stealing was wrong, what she stole was petty, and not of huge consequence to the economy (Like a gold bar would be). Also I pointed out that she stole something that, as carnivore, would not be a sufficient source of nutrients for her. She's forced to abide by this diet because her natural one would no doubt lead to her social rejection.

And I said that the Fluttershy situation was Gilda's fault, but being mean to one of the main cast automatically makes a character bad? What about the whole cast turning their back on Twilight during "A Canterlot Wedding"? She was in the right but still was abandoned by the friends she thought cared for her (Including Fluttershy).

So if your willing to make an exception for one, why not the other?

P.S. I suggest you don't go with the mentality of:

...no matter what you say...she will remain as one of the disliked characters to me.

It seems very ignorant.

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Honestly, she's no worse than Rainbow Dash. Kind of a jerk, maybe, and a petty thief at worst.

All told Gilda: Yelled at Pinkie, yelled at Fluttershy, scared Granny, stole an apple, and then blew up at Dash.

Well... within the same episode, Dash was going around pranking everyone, which would have included Fluttershy if Pinkie hadn't talked her down.

Sonic Rainboom alone, one of the iconic scenes and much of the rest of the episode has Dash yelling at Fluttershy and outright insulting her for not doing a favour for her well enough. Framing's the only real difference, except the argument that Dash was having a bad day, which we'll get back to.

The apple stealing: Daring Doo, anyone? Hell, fanmade, but does the theft in Double Rainboom seem at all out of character?

Scaring someone? Well, twitching her tail a little to make it look like it's alive is far, far worse than chasing people around with a thundercloud all night and making an entire town mess themselves. Yes, it's halloween, but there's a difference between 'spooky,' 'I just went into a haunted house' and 'an explosion just went off behind my head as I was walking down the street.' Hell, same episode as Gilda, they scared Spike so badly that he destroyed what he was working on (yes, Celestia got them) while she and Pinkie laughed.

and so on.

Put it into perspective:

It's the Cranky argument again, in which Pinkie decided that she had to be part of the goings on and that no one could possibly not want her to be there. Seriously, the felt characters say that explicitly in that episode. She was, at first, dismissive of Pinkie, yes. Then tried to avoid her and drop the hint that she should go away, then pointedly told her to leave. Arguably violently with the helicopter, but Rule of Funny applies and there was escalation.

Remember that Gilda had come from who-know-where to spend a day with her old friend, arriving between when Pinkie left Dash the night before and when Pinkie arrived early the next morning. It's not unreasonable to want some time alone to catch up first. She played along at first, was even amicable, but then made it clear to Dash at least that she wanted to spend some time alone as promised. Dash said as much to Pinkie and they left.

Then, put yourself into the same headspace. You're seeing a friend for the first time in years and, while heading somewhere on a bus with them, a person you've met exactly once and knows you're spending this time alone flags down the bus and purposefully sits down between the two of you.

You manage to ditch this person, go to a coffee shop and she arrives again, sits down at your table and cuts into your conversation. You leave again, and she follows you again stating that you and your friend almost managed to get away from her that time and starts in again.

You're entitled to be angry and it's reasonable to snap. Yes, the bit with the helicopter was over the top, but again, Rule of Funny applies. Pinkie wasn't hurt, and Gilda never hit her. The previous time, she popped a balloon and let Pinkie descend safely and the time before that, she just left.

Something I find the fandom quick to do and say is to defend Pinkie for this kind of thing. And, I'm sorry, but I disagree. Pinkie's not six.

Yelling at Fluttershy, that was being a jerk, granted, but it was after having her morning tarnished. And again, she yelled at someone after having a bad day. Dash did the same. The party was a long series of bad things happening to her, all of them after Pinkie opened up with a prank that hurt her, not to mention a lot of really creepy stuff from Pinkie. She made a reasonable assumption, snapped and yelled.

That's it.

Then she left, doing no damage on the way out.

So, Jerk? Probably. Antagonist? Only because Pinkie's a designated protagonist and she opposed her. Villain? Not even close.

Worse than Dash? I don't see it. I've seen Dash do worse in-series.

2113622
I did read your post, though I will admit that some parts may have escaped my attention (I worked for six hours straight in the rain, I have the privilage to be a little tired, don't you think?). So what if apples are mass produced in Equestria, and eaten by ponies on daily basis? That doesn't change the fact that Gilda deprived that one pony of those few bits he/she (don't remember if it was a stallion or a mare running that stand) could have if another pony bought that apple. Also, I doubt she did it because, like you have said:

She's forced to abide by this diet because her natural one would no doubt lead to her social rejection.

To me it looked more like: "Nice apple, I want it." Gilda just doesn't strike me as the type that would think of such deep repercussions. More like there is a law about carnivores living/staying within pony society, where one can't just go and kill something for food in public.

Being mean to one of the mains isn't making a character automatically bad in my books, but there are also some lines. It is one thing if they try to make the pony know they are not welcome (Rarity and those snobbish Canterlot elites), but it's another matter if someone purposely makes them cry. True, Fluttershy is very sensitive and it is easy to make her eyes water, but that still doesn't excuse Gilda's actions. What makes her bad here is that instead of accepting or ignoring Fluttershy and her apologies, Gilda starts to taunt, yelling and finally she roars at her. That's an attitude I can't understand.

As for your argument about Twilight in "Canterlot Wedding", I think the main reason no one took her seriously was because Twilight tends to exegarrate quite a lot (not to look far, her Want-It-Need-It spell). Add that her friends saw her reactions to the news of Shining's wedding, I think we all can give the other Mane6 a benefit of doubt, especially after Chrysalis pulled such a convincing act before them.

I am a very accepting person but even I have some standards. Until I see Gilda redeeming herself in the new season or one after that (hope there will be season 5 or more ) she will remain to me as a disliked character. Read it however you want, but just because I don't agree with your defense of that griffon, doesn't mean I act 'ignorant' towards everything else. I just can't see her in a different light, no matter how hard I'd try.

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To me, Gilda was a textbook sociopath, or at least as much of one as a g-rated show can allow. She is charming and charismatic when she wants to be, around those she considers "worthy" of being around her glorious self(such as Rainbow Dash) and will turn around and be extremely and unhesitatingly cruel to anyone else. She is violent towards Pinkie Pie simply for being around them, and while her stealing an apple's pretty petty it's still stealing and still wrong; she shows no remorse for it, so who knows what other petty crimes she commits simply because she knows they're 'not that big a deal'.

Finally, there is Fluttershy. Gilda blames the entire thing on the innocent pegasus despite Gilda practically ALLOWED her to bump into her instead of moving aside for her and gave Fluttershy no indication she was there, and acts extremely disproportionately hostile towards her for it. Then at the party, Gilda again refuses to ever admit or show any indication of remorse or acknowledging anything as her fault. What we've seen of her she's incapable of remorse for her actions, cares only about her own needs, always blames others for any consequence that comes of her own actions, and is extremely, disproportionately aggressive should anyone do something that offends her ego. When Dash finally tells her off, Gilda is offended and blames Rainbow instead.

I guess time will tell if she comes back or not(in a spin-off book Crystal Heart Spell she returned as the antagonist and took revenge by turning Twi and her friends against eachother, and even tells Twi if she were royalty she'd force everyone to bow down and worship her ever move. It may be canon, may not be(it does give us the only in-depth backstory we've seen for Cadance so far so I personally do). But again, I guess time will tell on what they decide to do with her.

2113810

Yes, agreed on the Canterlot Wedding controversy. Look at how Twi acts when she accuses 'Cadance'. She acts hysterical and far too enthusiastic about it, and like she's latching onto and exaggerating every excuse she can think of to cancel the wedding out of jealousy and being over-posessive and not bothering to look into why the things Cadance was doing were happening(she may have been right in the end but to everyone else by that point she had very little actual proof and her attitude really wasn't helping her case)

2113163 She's a jerk and a bully sure, but for her to crossover into being a villain, she'd probably have to kill someone

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I read through your argument, but it was already losing me even before I got to the decidedly uneven reasoning that treated Pinkie's giggling as cruel, yet characterized Gilda popping her balloons and wrecking her flying machine as an act of benevolence. Come on, you know Gilda didn't do that to help Pinkie. She did it because she was annoyed with Pinkie, and wanted her gone. The idea of Pinkie's flight being risky is an excuse you came up with to justify the action after the fact, despite there being no reason to believe Gilda even thought of that, much less considered it a good reason to take that course of action. Gilda didn't try to bring her down gently or explain how dangerous the situation was (And we've seen them go higher into the sky on several occasions), she insulted her and broke her flying machine.

The double standard comes in even more when you complain of everypony laughing when Gilda slips on some cake (Rather less dangerous that the contents of dozens of videos that get uploaded on youtube every day, which often have the recorder and even often the "victim" laughing as well). That gets characterized as cruel, while Gilda sending somepony tumbling many hundreds of feet in an out-of-control flying machine is characterized as her helping them. While insulting the pony she's "helping" at the same time.

No. Gilda is a jerk. That doesn't mean she doesn't have reason for what she does (Everyone does, after all), it just means that those actions were wrong. She's rude and insulting. She sends a pony crashing from the sky because she doesn't like them. She steals (No, it's not like stealing a piece of straw from a hay farm. It's like what it is: going to a mom-and-pop style grocer and shoplifting). She bullies Fluttershy. She body-slams Spike (A baby dragon) out of her way so she can get to the cake faster, despite there being plenty of room beside him. She's rude some more. Rather than try to work anything out, she gets angry and lashes out.

I get why people want to like her, and characters like her (See: Lightning Dust), and why they get compared to Dash so often, but it seems to miss the glaring difference between them. Yes, Dash can be abrasive and insensitive at times, but she isn't malicious. When she says that her pranks are all in good fun, she means it. She might get carried away, but she has repeatedly shown that she'll back down when she realizes she's going too far. When Pinkie said they couldn't prank Fluttershy because it would be going too far, Dash didn't even hesitate before agreeing. She's out to have fun, but she isn't trying to bring other ponies down in order to do so.

Maybe Gilda will eventually get there, but she's not going to do it by excusing her own bad behavior.

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I know I'm gonna sound like a dick here, but you're kinda misinterpreting her. The writers DID have subtle nuances they were trying to get across. And that's some people are assholes, and not everyone can be redeemable. To me, Gilda's a cunt. She's violent, mean, egotistical, rude, and all around a bitch. And that's what they were showing. That not everyone is nice and cheery and the greatest example of their species. I prefer THAT than some kind of utopian ideal of "she's just misunderstood". People make their choices and fuck up, then they pay for it.

Yeah she's a bitch.

Antagonistic due to circumstances but not an outright villain.

I hold the notion that Gilda isn't that social or doesn't know how to be social around ponies. She is rude and cocky and in the episode she has probably traveled quite a distance to meet up with an old childhood friend. If she didn't have much friends before then she would be clingy and overly attached leading to a backlash on pinkie. Plus pinkie destroying/messing with her plans would probably shorten anyone's fuse...which leads to an outburst with flutters. I think the pranking was just her trying to blow off steam and she was doing it a lot like Rainbow was earlier in the episode.

The stealing is supposed to show that she doesn't have the same attachment to loyalty like Rainbow does. After all she is her own person. Plus who knows how Griffons act in their own societies.

In short I view her as a Possibly introverted out of place griffon with a short fuse trying to meet up with an old friend and ending up losing her temper and killing her friendship.