I'm just gonna kinda ignore the fact that there's a big spoiler trailer clip thread already going, 'cause one video of a clip spoiling part of the episode isn't really a good opening post for this thread. I try and make the first post fairly non-spoilery for these things. Besides, I like writing these!

So here we are with the next episode. I didn't watch the spoiler, so what I know about it is that its name is "Buckball Season", and it's by Jennifer Skelly, yet another writer that hasn't written for My Little Pony before. She's written for Animal Atlas and Zoo's Clues, so I guess she likes animals. Probably sports, too, given the title of this episode.

From the title, I think this sounds like a sports anime, so my guess is it'll be something like this:

[youtube=uQc_zt4LsLE]

Maybe somepony won't be good at sports for eight minutes, then have a six minute training montage, and be great at them for the rest of the episode or something. They probably have some really important reason for winning the sports game, like making somepony like 'em.

Anyways, this is the official discussion thread, so feel free to discuss the episode here!

--Sweetie Belle

5464478 Considering "Hurricane Fluttershy", it could more likely be something along the lines of: Everyone on the team counts and so does their contribution to said team. Or Winning doesn't matter as long as you're having fun doing it.

5464478 Did someone say Training Montage?

Okay, so now I'd really like to know where Twilight, Rarity, and Starlight Glimmer got to in this episode. Of course, knighty seems to have vanished instead of doing the site episode post, too.

I do kinda feel like Applejack and Rainbow Dash should have already known this weeks moral.

Snails seems to have sorta a zen thing going to me here...

--Sweetie Belle

5465125 Perhaps Twilight and Starlight Glimmer are at Canterlot or the Crystal Empire and Rarity is either too busy with her designs to play Buck Ball, or doesn't want to.

5465125 It seems like a lot of the more prominent unicorns and magical users were conviently absent for the episode. I guess that's because most of the town didn't know anything about the sport until Applejack and Rainbow Dash told them about it.

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What bugged me is that really Rarity and Twilight should have been their first thought for who could fill the position, so we really needed something explaining that they were gone, or them declining to play. It's possible that something like that was in there originally and got cut for time or something, though.

Rarity probably wouldn't want to play, but she'd be pretty good at it if she did play. Think of how many things she can levitate at once!

Still, I do kinda like showing that Snails is actually really good at something. I just wish they'd covered why other obvious choices weren't available.

--Sweetie Belle

5465145 Yeah, wouldn't have hurt to cover their bases.

5465145

Twilight is an alicorn, not a unicorn, leading to an unfair advantage. She was probably with Starlight and Spike doing a lesson, anyways.

Rarity wouldn't really be one to compete, and we actually do see her cheering her friends off on the train. Besides that, I don't think Rarity is strong in fast paced levitation. Sewing is a slow and delicate process. Catching balls at that quick speed is not.

Also, Rainbow and Jack hosted Tryouts. If they really wanted to help, don't ya' think they would have went and tried? The only reason Pinks and 'Shy got noticed in the first place is because they helped with tryouts.

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5465125 Moral of the episode: there's always that one show off, AKA, Gandhi Snails.

5465145

What bugged me is that really Rarity and Twilight should have been their first thought for who could fill the position, so we really needed something explaining that they were gone, or them declining to play. It's possible that something like that was in there originally and got cut for time or something, though.

Rarity probably wouldn't want to play, but she'd be pretty good at it if she did play. Think of how many things she can levitate at once!

As always, until she has some day off or having fun being busy.

5465145 Honestly I think it is pretty believable how Snail was chosen and Twilight and Rarity was not thought of.
Both Applejack and Rainbow has it with being caught in the moment and not thinking ahead at times. They went with the flow and began to train with Pinkie and Fluttershy, forgetting about a unicorn, and suddenly snails shows up and shows he is near perfect for the job, hence them suddenly remembering and choosing him without bothering to ask their unicorn friends

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And lest not forget, it's not easy for some to try having fun while playing an official competition, especially when the side you're playing for is eager to win. Because for them, either that they don't give a damn and screws up for the team need to be serious and stress out so much on triumphing, or that they get anxious on being serious to the fact that the effect is decreasing their performance. For those who lack concentration and focus on a daily basis, this might be a problem, because either way, it's their loss. It is sometimes hard to find in between the perfect balance where you get to enjoy the match while being focused on the physical game itself.

Unless you're some confident hero/ine who's always ready to play your best, then that's not an issue isn't it?

Again, doesn't apply to everyone, but still a good handful of those poor souls.

Having just watched the episode, I would have to say that Applejack and Rainbow have been more insensitive or sumthin as of late. I mean, yes, they do care about their friends but when it comes to games or competitions they become (for lack of a better word) aggressive and one-track minded.

I personally love their characters as much as the next person but the show writers have really been pushing the boundaries of these characters. Something that might also add to the already filled punch bowl is that the writer of this episode hasn't written for MLP before. We had "The Cart Before The Ponies" already showcase such behaviour, yet it occurs once again. I feel like it was an honest mistake, but it still grinds my gears that they haven't really learned their lesson, and it just keeps repeating.

(SPOILERS!)

And the award for most uncomfortable dialogue in an episode goes to...

Seriously, at least Applebuck Season had restraint. The term "applebucking" was used sparingly. Buckball Season repeats its naughty sounding words with no purpose but to say them. It rides the edge of taste. There is no way the writers could come up with a term like "buckoff" (instead of kickoff), and think it sounds appropriate to any age group. At least try to hide the adult content.

But about the episode itself. Buckball Season is essentially a reprise of The Cart Before the Ponies with a slightly different cast. We still have Applejack and Rainbow as jerks, with Fluttershy and Pinkie taking on the CMC's role. And the best part of the episode is Snails, just to give indication of how bad it is.

Buckball itself is somewhat intriguing. Imagine a mix between Basketball and Quidditch, with a dab of Soccer and American Football thrown in. The goal is to score points by kicking the ball into the opposing teams basket, fairly simple. But in the world of MLP, the various types of ponies each get a role: earth ponies are on the field kicking the ball, pegasi guard the baskets, and unicorns levitate the baskets ready to catch the ball.

Applejack and Rainbow are part of the Ponyville team, preparing to go against the Apploosians. But they need a qualified unicorn, so they hold tryouts. In the meanwhile, Fluttershy and Pinkie are convinced to join practice, and do extremely well. Applejack and RD are so impressed, they decide to have them take their places on the team, with Snails as the third member. It makes sense, as he was the only unicorn to show competence at the game, despite admitting his success is from "not thinking about anything."

Pinkie and Fluttershy are excited about the upcoming competition. Pinkie loves the bouncing and athletics of the game, while Fluttershy enjoys how much fun she has at a sport for once. But it all comes crashing down with the coaching of Applejack and Rainbow Dash. They berate their poor friends into tired shells, telling them that the reputations of the Apple family, their friends, and all of Ponyville are at stake. They essentially say that if they lose against Apploosia, then they will forever be pariahs. Of course the sudden pressure makes Pinkie and Fluttershy fail miserably during practice.

You think this would make AJ and Rainbow reconsider having them on the team, but no. They get the citizens of Ponyville pumped up over the match, enough that they wave pennants and hang up flags with their pictures embossed on them. Nearly the whole town is there cheering them on as they board the train. Applejack and Rainbow remain oblivious that they are making their friends nervous wrecks.

Only once Flutter's screams at them do they realize their actions. Their poor coaching took the fun out of the game, which in turn took away Pinkie and Fluttershy's abilities. It is a lesson that is applicable in real life, but here it is just needless and stupid. Why did Applejack and Rainbow not just take back their places on the team after Fluttershy and Pinkie's terrible attempts at second practice? They had Snails, the candidate for a unicorn they were looking for in the first place. It also seems off that Rainbow and AJ would let two of their friends take their places in a competitive sport so quickly, but that is not what is at fault.

A much better episode with a similar theme is season 2's Hurricane Fluttershy, which has RD being a tough coach. But there she is intelligent and three-dimensional. She learns she cannot coach Fluttershy with her usual methods, and instead has to take time to understand her friend more. And despite her attempts, Rainbow still exhibits impatience, ultimately letting Fluttershy do her own thing. And Fluttershy is able to reward both herself and Dash by helping reach the 800 wing power limit at the end.

One of the problems of Buckball Season is that does little to give Pinkie or Fluttershy any say until the train ride; Applejack and RD just sort of put them into the competition (though they initially go along with it), and then pressure them until they break. Surely Pinkie or Flutters could voice their opinion to RD and AJ?

Looking past the bad characterizations, the episode is also not entertaining. Buckball is simply not enough to remain invested in. Pinkie and Fluttershy show athletic prowess, an unusual but well deserved bit of development at this point in the series. But the flair of watching them perform the same moves is quickly lost. It also does not matter who wins the competition in Appleoosa, as the point of the episode is Rainbow and Applejack learning to be better coaches, so the games themselves go without tension.

And oh my, those terminologies. "Buckoff" on its own is enough to make me vomit. An example of a show using uncomfortable language the right way is the Spongebob episode Sailor Mouth, where different sounds are used to convey bad words, allowing viewers imaginations to fill in the blanks. That, and the episode is super funny.

Buckball Season is not. Use of words like "buckoff" and "Buckball" just sound dirty. It also genuinely sounds like RD says "****ball" at one point, with the asterisks being the most obvious replacement. I am not amused with this episode. Though it is less mean than The Cart Before the Ponies.

Extras:
-More hideously inappropriate lines: "Where did Pinkie learn to buck like that?" "We bucked the hooves right off of you!"
-I may have misconstrued this, but does Applejack say Braeburn bragged about getting a unicorn and a pegasus to join his team? With how Buckball is set up, I would assume they would be required to play.
-Snails really is the best part of the episode. His zen-like poses during game are neatly ironic. He seems well-skilled and contemplative. But in reality, his mind is a blank slate with no chalk.
-Is it just me, or does Braeburn sound different?
-The episode's moral spoken by Dash: "Some thrive on pressure, some don't." Brilliant.

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Why did Applejack and Rainbow not just take back their places on the team after Fluttershy and Pinkie's terrible attempts at second practice? They had Snails, the candidate for a unicorn they were looking for in the first place. It also seems off that Rainbow and AJ would let two of their friends take their places in a competitive sport so quickly, but that is not what is at fault.

You mean when the day RIGHT before the actual match starts, there is little to no time to find any other ponies when you see hope right in front of your eyes, this can happen to anyone. To further extend this, the spark of hope that Applejack and Rainbow Dash had for the two were passionate, and almost eternal after seeing their miraculous first time performances despite not knowing what the hay "buckball" (heck, not even Rainbow knew what it was at the beginning of this episode) is. I wouldn't be surprised if RD and AJ still had their hopes up for Fluttershy and Pinkie Pie even if their second practice bucking failed.

While some people are aware of this already, in this episode itself, it's kind of revealed that Rainbow Dash and Applejack are athletic ponies, both who are confident with their physical abilities, so they would just keep pushing whatever they have to muster the mentality and possibility to win, no matter how hard it is.

In contrary to Pinkie and Fluttershy, who hate "pressure" in general.

One of the problems of Buckball Season is that does little to give Pinkie or Fluttershy any say until the train ride; Applejack and RD just sort of put them into the competition (though they initially go along with it), and then pressure them until they break. Surely Pinkie or Flutters could voice their opinion to RD and AJ?

Ehh, Pinkie and Fluttershy initially believed that this game is just for fun, and they never bothered too much about it because they did find buckball to be a fun sport. Until the next day they immediately found out that everypony was dying hard on wanting Ponyville to beat Appleloosa, creating psychological and mental stress on the two, that's when they begin to realize that they have not been 100% convinced on how is the competition going to be "fun", and thus that's when they protested, when they were absolutely sure that AJ and RD weren't being the best of friends at the time.

But anyways, I do agree with you when you said that the competition was boring, it really was, I mean it wouldn't hurt the creators if they added a little bit more action in the animation, or they were just too lazy to do the extra work and just copy and pasted everything.

The fanfics for this episode are going to be hideous.
Ok, practice is over now lets start the real Buckball training.
What do you mean "real training?"
You're about to find out!

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They essentially say that if they lose against Apploosia, then they will forever be pariahs.

I'm pretty sure they didn't actually say that.

You think this would make AJ and Rainbow reconsider having them on the team, but no.

That's because AJ and Dash saw how good they were before. They knew something was throwing off their performance, but they couldn't figure out what it was right away.

And oh my, those terminologies. "Buckoff" on its own is enough to make me vomit. An example of a show using uncomfortable language the right way is the Spongebob episode Sailor Mouth, where different sounds are used to convey bad words, allowing viewers imaginations to fill in the blanks.

They weren't supposed to be bad words in-universe. Honestly, I didn't even notice how dirty they sounded until you pointed it out, and I'm sure the double meaning sailed over most kids' heads. It's nothing to get worked up about.

Maybe it's just because my expectations were low, but I enjoyed this episode a lot more than you did. It wasn't the best, but it was nowhere near as bad as “Cart Before the Ponies,” which was what I feared. At least the bad coaching only went on for about the middle third of the episode and RD and AJ realized their mistake long before the end. And I actually like how they used reverse psychology on Pinkie and Fluttershy.

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so we really needed something explaining that they were gone, or them declining to play.

I don't think there has to be an explicit reason given why a pony running her own business and a princess weren't there at the specific time Rainbow and AJ were recruiting.

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Buckball Season is not. Use of words like "buckoff" and "Buckball" just sound dirty. It also genuinely sounds like RD says "****ball" at one point, with the asterisks being the most obvious replacement. I am not amused with this episode. Though it is less mean than The Cart Before the Ponies.

For the love of jebus please tell me you're not serious? Don't put the onus on the show writers because some really idiotic fans can't get over buck rhyming with fuck (we have a real mature fanbase, ). Buck means to kick with the hind-legs. That's it. That's all its ever meant on the show. What, do you think Lauren Faust threw in apple bucking to sound like apple fucking? No? Then why assume this writer did. The only reason you think it sounded dirty was because of the fandom's use of the word.

Those responses aside, I actually really thought that the final joke was going to be that Braeburn's team was going to suck and all the hard work would be for nothing. Would have been a funnier ending, but I don't mind the one we got. And the writer for this episode did a fantastic job writing for Pinkie, which isn't easy.

Glad to see come good vibes going Snails' way.

So the purple Bulk lookalike on the Appleloosa team... a cousin, perhaps? Toni Triceps? She even has the tiny wings.

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The term 'buck' as a swear word is and has always been remarkably stupid.

The proper term would be 'rut', which actually means 'fuck,'

5465479 Thank you! The thing about "buck" as a euphemism for something else is a prime example of someone's dirty mind filling in something that doesn't exist. Common sense suggests that people don't replace the end sound in a "dirty word." Replacements are meant to catch you when you start saying a profane word and have to switch midway through, hence "fudge" and "sugar." If you replace the first letter and keep the ending the same, that means you thought about using the profane word in advance. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

TL/DR; freaking out about "buck" is very silly.

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Toni Triceps?

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As I posted in another group: how about we have an episode where Applejack caulks the walls of the spa, and the townsfolk ask her "Would you caulk up our walls, too?!" What I wrote is 100% innocent, and yet, reading it aloud, does it not sound that way?

Just because bucking is an actual term doesn't make it any less offensive sounding when put with words like off. "Buck off!" has already been a euphism adopted by bronies for awhile. I wouln't even pay attention to it. But used in the show just feels so, ugh.

Maybe I'm looking too much into this, but couldn't they replace a few instances of buck with kick? At least expand the episode's vocabulary?

I do apologize to everyone, too, if my tone has seemed a bit tense.

Putting my dirty mind aside, I'd say my consensus on the episode and the general consensus have actually been fairly close. If it weren't for AJ and RD's characterizations, I'd probably give the episode a thumb's up. It has things I like about, like Buckball itself (thinking about it, that term doesn't even sound too bad. I can't say the same for the other term I mentioned, though), Snails was funny, and getting to visit Appleoosa again is kind of a treat.

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What do you mean characterization? The two were perfectly in character for the whole damn thing?

I don't know why people don't get these two's personalities. When Rainbow finds something she enjoys, she'll OBSESS about it. (Daring Do, Wonderbolts, Pranking, Friends, etc.) and this game was no exception. When Dashie wants to win something, she'll do anything it will take to win. And what she came up with just so happened to be Pinkie and Fluttershy's weakness.

Applejack can be really competitive, as well, especially when her pride can be at stake. Braeburn challenged her. She found the perfect ponies to crush him. She wanted to show Braeburn not to underestimate her, but only ended up hurting her friends, in the long run.

You guys need to realize the ponies aren't freaking perfect. Just like us humans, we all can be selfish, make mistakes, and so on. So why your calling it OOC because two ponies were trying to help their friends reach their full potential, only to screw up JUST BECAUSE their friends respond negatively to pressure, idfk.

Thing about AJ and RD's characterizations is we know how much Winning Matters to Rainbow and how she can let that desire go to her head, same with Applejack and her sense of family honor, especially since she's the leader of the Apple Family

5465950 Right, so kids would immediately pop up from their chair/couch/floor/table/rooftop/car seat and yell out "OOOOH SHE SAID A BAD WORD!"

But come on, what child would know the direct term for intercourse and so on? The older audiences wouldn't even think that way (in a general sense) when they hear "buck" in such a show.

Maybe next time we should ban Applejack's "shoot" and "hay" instead? How about "sugarcube" because it sounds funny and "cube" replaces "daddy"?

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I'm guessing you've never been to American schools. Heck, I knew what the f-word was when I was five. I'm not saying I used it, though.

5466092 I have seen kids as young as five asking such words and their meaning when grown ups and teens became ignorant of their surroundings, implying that some still are innocent.

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I never said I wanted any character to be perfect (I actually praise RD for being imperfect in Hurricane Fluttershy in my initial review). What I don't like is characters who shouldn't be oblivious being oblivious. Flutter's and Pinkie fail at their second practice due to AJ and RD's harsh coaching. Yet neither Applejack nor RD seem to take notice of their two friends suddenly becoming gigantic wrecks. (To be fair, Fluttershy starts the practice poorly.) AJ has no excuse not noticing Pinkie suddenly missing every shot, and no longer being happy or hyper as usual.

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AJ has no excuse not noticing Pinkie suddenly missing every shot, and no longer being happy or as hyper as usual.

Applejack does notice Pinkie suddenly screwing up, for one thing. Heck, she even discusses that issue with Rainbow Dash.

For the other part, while I'd slightly have to agree on her not appearing as perky as usual, and it being the tiniest bit off that Jack didn't notice, the Applejack having no excuse is a big 'no'.

For one thing, when you see someone who's been playing a sport for most of the day, and has just begun at that sport, they'll look tired. Pinkie is a ball of energy, yes. But even this ball can stress out and become tired, once in a while.

Besides that, Applejack isn't exactly that good with picking up and dealing with emotions as people credit her for. In 'One Bad Apple', she doesn't notice the drastic change in the CMCs behavior. Or in 'Tanks for the Memories' when she has no idea what she or anyone should do to help Rainbow. Or even in 'Hearthbreakers' when AJ doesn't notice how uncomfortable the Pies are with the Apples' traditions. Heck, people seem to think AJ is a pony lying detector even though this hasn't been brought up once in the show! (The idea is fun to play around, though.)

What did you expect her to do? Realize this and kick Pinkie off the team or something like that?

“Oh! Pinkie Pie isn't playing correctly anymore! I think I'm pressuring her too much!“

NO. Not only has AJ not fully learned this lesson, but how in the world would she realize that? Applejack didn't even know she was making Pinkie uncomfortable, no way she'd just figure all that trash out after a couple minutes of practice!

Also: Rainbow wasn't really imperfect or OOC in that episode either…

Also: Rainbow wasn't really imperfect or OOC in that episode either…

I never said she was OOC, in any way. By imperfect I meant her characterization was good, human-like, if you will.

Also, for note, the word "buck" was used once in place of the big bad before the brony fandom existed, with the Rocko's Modern Life episode "Who Gives a Buck"

This was the only instance of the word being used that way I could find. So credit to you guys, you were right.

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To sum up what the writer of the episode is saying is that in sports we like to focus on the fans and parents being the ones who over react and put too much pressure on the players, and yet we ignore players being put under too much pressure when the coach is the one putting too much pressure on the team or turning violent at a sporting match when a player cracks under the pressure and makes a mistake (ex. Bob Knight a man who was determined to win yet couldn't control his temper and would often lash out in fits of rage, and sometimes violence, at his players when they didn't play to his expectations)

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Oh! Got it, mate. Sorry bout that.

5466692

No worries