4395339

- Quill: awarded to highest-rated story by a new artist (i.e., hasn't submitted an entry before)
- Mortarboard: awarded to highest-rated story by an artist who hasn't earnt a mortarboard yet

These are great, and simpler to implement. They don't require new UI actions or database columns.

4395339
4395404
I think that the Quill/Mortarboard would accomplish what we were trying to do here reasonably well without adding a whole lot of complications and complexities.

4395402
4395208
This reminds me of a gaming story...

A few years ago, I ran a campaign called GEMEA (the Genetic Enhancement and Modification Enforcement Agency). All the characters part of a special investigations team, and there were a number of teams in GEMEA, all of whom had to deal with various issues having to deal with genetic enhancement and modification - illegal modifications, unlicensed doctors, people doing dangerous experiments, ect.

Anyway, because this was an international organization, everyone always wanted to know that THEIR issue got the most crack team possible.

After some initial complaints from governments after getting the higher numbered teams, the organization renamed the special investigations teams as follows:

Gold Team
First Team
Team 1
Team A
Team Alpha
Team Able

Everyone thus always got the best possible team, because all of those teams come first, right?

4396321

For years now, whenever I've had to divide a class into teams, I'll call them Team A and Team One, because it's easier than having someone complain that they don't want to be Team two/B.

Not that it's ever actually stopped kids from complaining that they want to be on the other team, but that's kids for you,

4395339
If support is falling, or concerns are cropping up, about the tiered system, I would support the Quill and Mortarboard as solid steps in the right direction.

If earning a gold/silver/bronze also barred you from earning a Mortarboard, it would be functionally equivalent to a Golden J.

(responding to this here instead of the round's discussion thread, because I promised to limit myself just to reviews, but this is directly relevant to the proposal)

4396841 (Cold in Gardez)

I don't know if that's true or not, but it gives me a chance to say something I've wanted to say since horizon introduced his Master/Journeyman idea.

I have never met a writer who views themselves as a master of the craft ...

I just want to say that my personal origins for the proposed tier names was the fan convention circuits whose costume competition structure I borrowed. You can see that in the original site I linked. It was an attempt to describe classes of competitors, not to make a statement about us as authors.

(Masquerade competition classes, in turn, borrowed terminology from craftsman guild structures. A "Master" was not someone who had nothing left to learn, it was someone who had been accepted as a full member of the guild.)

If I have unintentionally made a statement about us as authors that is false or offensive, I apologize.

If it doesn't bother anyone but exposes my ego ... um, mea culpa, I guess.

4396867

That wasn't directed at you, buddy. We can call the classes whatever we want -- I still like the idea.

Only one problem I see with this system.

Eventually it'll become entirely redundant.

There's more regulars than there are newcomers. Okay I haven't done the math of that but it's highly likely to be the case. That means the master pool will get increasingly more crowded, while the journeyman tier gets quieter and quieter. Eventually it'll get to a point where they'll be a tiny number of journeymen, like five. Anyone who wins in there isn't exactly going to feel proud... you only had to compete against four other people.

Then when most people are in Masters league, you're going to get the same problem we have now; that is a monopoly of the best authors constantly winning medals. Which... I'm conflicted about. One thing we must bear in mind is that the top authors need to have fun too. At the same time though, so do lesser skilled authors. I imagine it gets pretty boring to see [insert author here] won an event hands down once again.

The only solution I can think of is awards based on categories. So things like 'best slice of life', 'best comedy' and so on. This spreads the awards out a bit and someone can feel proud that, despite not winning overall, they did net 'best tragedy' or something.

4396908

The only solution I can think of is awards based on categories. So things like 'best slice of life', 'best comedy' and so on. This spreads the awards out a bit and someone can feel proud that, despite not winning overall, they did net 'best tragedy' or something.

Hey, now there's an idea! I like this.

4396916
4396908
The problem is I don't think this should be part of the official writeoff. It would require a whole other voting system, we'd be voting and giving awards based on a separation of stories that isn't currently measurable by the writeoff (since no one tags their stories, we'd have to guess if something should be considered slice of life or sad, for example.) I feel like that's a lot to ask of Roger and not really fair to the authors of stories.

On the other hand, I think this sounds really fun, and it could be something we could do unofficially with a google form, if people feel that would be worth anything. We could even add silly categories when they're relevant (like this round we could have a "Best Everyday" category, or when we get a couple stories that are about the same thing we could add a "Best Immortality Angst" category.) We could even whip up some "prize" images.

4396964

Yeah, is always the issue with most ideas: implementation. I think all of us can agree that we want to make this as simple as we can for Roger. The site itself is great and I can't see any room for improvement with it, so why try to fix what ain't broke?

I like your suggestion though. For all this drama talk, I do get the impression that this is a friendly community. An unofficial awards kinda thing can really just be a community thing. Keep everything on a google doc or what have you and have it entirely separate from the official thing. That way people who decide not to take part in the unofficial stuff aren't affected at all, since this whole writeoff is anonymous anyway.

Integrating a sort of community thing might actually help with drama too. I think with all the anonymity, people tend to forget actual authors write some of the stories. I think a lot of this writeoff's drama has been to do with that and miscommunication.

4396964

like this round we could have a "Best Everyday" category

I'd be in favor of this, but then again, I might be biased.

I also like the idea, overall, though. The spreadsheet already has the option of listing genres, so it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to make and vote on categories like "Best Comedy," "Best Tragedy," "Best Romance," and perhaps more inventive things like "Most Creative Use of Prompt," among others.

4396908
Honestly, I don't see that as much of a problem. If we stop getting newcomers, the real issue will be stagnation of the community, not who we give awards to. (Actually, it might be more of a problem if we get down to having three or fewer eligible writers for the lower tier award, and they just end up getting pushed into the upper tier when they're not ready for it.)

4397010

Now I kind of want this to be treated like some high-profile award show.

"And the nominees for 'Best Comedy' are..."

4395339
I like the Mortarboard idea a lot. I would also say that if you got gold/silver/bronze, you also automatically earn a mortarboard if you had not previously gotten one. (You could only ever earn a maximum of one Mortarboard). This would pretty quickly filter through the authors who often place in the top (or could easily be given retroactively) and then have plenty of opportunity for authors who are in the middle-ranges to have a solid goal to aspire towards; one that's easier to reach than medaling, and which feels like an accomplishment, given that I still think we're projected to be getting people at an equal or higher rate than we'd be giving out Mortarboards.

The Quill idea, I like considerably less. I get what it means theoretically, but it would be very oddly distributed – an author with a strong story who happened to do their first Writeoff at the same time as a second slightly more experienced author could be left out in the cold, whereas an author with a very bad story who happens to join a Writeoff when there's no one else really there for the first time gets a Quill by default. (It could also theoretically mean that a new author would wait to officially join a Writeoff until they felt they had a story strong enough to win the Quill, as there's only one shot at it. I think that would be very unfortunate.)

4395339

I like the mortarboard idea, but my only concern with it is how slowly it would propagate.

I.e. In the first month, horizon wins it. The second month, I win it. The third month, bookplayer wins it. Then Pascoite, Bad Horse, PP, etc, etc., until a year from now (going by the current scoreboard) the first person who hasn't already medalled gets it.

Are we content to wait a year for the mortarboard idea to have as much impact as horizon's original idea would have during the very next contest?

4397169 Hmm. How about if the mortarboard went to the author with the highest-rated entry who doesn't already have a medal, and you're always eligible for the mortarboard until you win a medal?

That way, it sort of acheives the "best of the rest" idea, without taking too long to have an effect, and the amount of eligible people doesn't run out as quickly over time.

4397169 4397188
That's why I feel like earning a gold/silver/bronze medal should result in an auto-mortarboard. (Probably retroactively at this point in order to catch up and and have the system start actually being relevant, re: CiG's point) I mean, all of the medals and ribbons and things are ultimately pointless and there for show, but it still strikes me as problematic... Say there are circumstances where your story could place third or fourth, and third gets you a bronze medal but it also means you could never get a Mortarboard. I could see many authors (myself included) may be sad they didn't place fourth instead.

4397158
Yeah, I'm a bit suspect of the quill idea too. You only get one chance to get one and after that it's gone. It might discourage prospective newbies from participanting until they feel like they have a chance to snatch it. It could also encourage excessive name changing until one gets it.

4397169
I could retroactively award mortarboards, so most of the heavy hitters will already have one.

4397357

Yeah, I'm a bit suspect of the quill idea too. You only get one chance to get one and after that it's gone.

I am mostly put off this idea because it would mean that I would forever be a Quill-less Quill
So, of course, I don't have much of a problem with it. I think the mortarboard would be a much more useful prize, though. Throwing my support behind that one, I guess, for what it's worth.

4397357

I'd say just have medals flagged as that, quicker and easier.

I like the Mortar idea (Though would think it should use a different name), but I'd vote against Quill, because it has a lot more randomness inherent in it.

4397357
Yeah, the negative incentives of the quill being a Lost Forever are potentially problematic.

Retroactively giving out mortarboards seems logical if they were to be implemented.

4397357
Just wanted to point out that I wasn't really suggesting a new writer award in my original post. I was comparing the way we should treat the Mortorboard (which I was calling the Quill) with how awards like the Grammys treat a "Best New Artist" award-- not something that makes you of a lower class or grade level, but as an additional award that some artists are disqualified from, thus making sure that not all the awards go to the old fogeys with established reputations.

In our case, disqualifying based on having won previous awards makes more sense, so I also don't think the Quill you suggested makes a lot of sense in our situation. (Though I didn't bring it up earlier because if people liked it, I don't think it would hurt anything.)

4398205
I like the symbolism of a mortarboard. It means you've passed write-off school.

4400233
Oh. It's a graduation cap. Okay. That's more logicalish?