Sep
2nd
2012
Regarding Gandalf's form... · 1:22am Sep 2nd, 2012
Now, the next chapter of The White Rider should have arrived a few days ago. I apologize, as preparing for school and brainstorming has delayed it.
And I have a question that I would like to ask you wonderful readers: Does the fact that Gandalf is in pony form cause any difficulties or dissatisfaction when reading the crossover?
I'm just curious about what you all feel. Of course, I would like an honest-to-goodness answer.
Thank you all for your time, and I eagerly await your replies.
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Ascension Call · 573 views
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Not really.
I've seen enough HiE fics in my time.
I'm glad to see one that could've been, but isn't
Refreshing change, and all that
Also, I went and picked up all three of the main trilogy books, as well as a copy of The Silmarillion. I am reading them as I go along. Thanks to all who recommended them!
328917
Noted, and glad to hear that.
I'm good. In fact, for me it would be more awkward if he stayed in his "human" form.
I think it makes sense for him to be in pony form while wandering around in Equestria. He strikes me as someone who wouldn't want to alarm people/ponies with an unusual shape/form.
328926
That's the way I saw it.
328929
Agreed, though his origins will have to come out.
i find that you could go either way with it, it is going to be awesome either way, i think it would have been much more interesting if Gandalf was in his Human form but that is just my personal opinion, but really it wouldnt be his style to stick out like such a sore horn (if you'll pardon the mangling of human expressions into pony terms) he would prefer to stay partially in the background until he is needed to take the spotlight or share the spotlight, and being Human would put the spotlight on him in a way he would rather not have it so.. yea its better he is in pony form for this ^_^
no only gandalf is way badass and he shud look moar liek this
static.fimfiction.net/images/story_images/42916_r.png?1344113889
328937 Oh you!
Not dissatisfaction per-se. Im a fan of the Human in Equestria "area" of fim-fiction, and I like it when the author writes of the shock of meeting ponies while still, as the case may be, an edain. Most writers dont have enough skill to accurately portray culture shock, or any such subtle elements of a story, but you seem to be up to the challenge.
A note on the books: I would read the Silmarillion first. Especially the first part with the Valar and Maiar and such. Itll give you a bit more insight into what Gandalf really is, albeit very dry. If you have any questions, shoot me a message or something. Ive been called the cliffnotes to Lord of the Rings before.... Im not sure if it was a compliment or not... Anyway. It looks very interesting, keep it up!
328920
Be careful of the Silmarillion. First half is boring as *muffled insulting words*
Honestly, it does not bother me at all. The impression I always got was that the really powerful entities of Middle Earth and beyond like Gandalf were not really bound to a single physical form and could change if needed/allowed/commanded and that they mostly stuck to the human-like forms for ease of interaction with the lesser races, so becoming a pony in Equestria would be a natural change.
328929 I was thinking at first it would be better for Gandalf as a human (well, technically a wizard, but wizards look like humans so close enough) to come in with Shadowfax, but your comment makes more sense as to what Gandalf would actually do. I can't be sure, but I think he already has changed his form in some Tolkien story in order to cause less confusion (I haven't read all of the books, but my brother has, and it seems familiar).
328935>> I think.. that he cant be too old. Not like a really old pony, because that's just limit him by a whole lot. Plus it would give you alot of Personally I cant choose between Alicorn or Unicorn. I think it would become too cliche if he was an Alicorn though. Just a suggestion but since he has been there before, maybe you could make him Star Swirl the Bearded. PLEASE!!! It would make sense!! And I wont even consider him in human for because, like 328929 said he wouldn't want to cause confusion and panic. The only thing I know for sure is that he has to be powerful, even more than Twilight. If he can come back from the dead, and if what I heard is true and he is an Angel. (I read the books and I think I read somewhere that he was a Angel) Then he would be way powerful. And since his name is Gandalf the WHITE. He is going to have to have a long white mane (like his normal hair), white coat, and a long white horn (to replace his staff). But this is all just what I think. REMEMBER!! Star Swirl the Bearded.....
Staff might get awkward, but otherwise, no.
328920 Beware of the Silmarillion... It is written in an ancient and archaic language we college types refer to as textbook.
I've also heard that it is a pretty good read. Differing sources on that.
Changing his form to a pony sounds like an awesome change of pace, love it!
Not really. The only peeve I have with it is if someone has the Human Tag when the Human is transformed into a Pony and keeps it. Sort of takes away the "Human" part of it, more like "Humans-Mind-In-A-Pony-Body" at that point.
328955>>328970
If you can't/don't read the Silmarillion, just go to the LOTR wiki and/or Tolkien Gateway, and follow the links.
As for his form, I'd imagine Gandalf being a shapeshifter or being able to cast glamour, so it would make sense for him to be a horse. It would seem odd to me if the rule in general for going through the portal was "everything becomes a pony," or at least if it was an absolute. I like the idea of Gandalf having the power to be whatever he damn pleases, but chooses the pony form. A difference in species (one not ever being seen before) would cause a difference in the interaction between the characters that would significantly impact the story (if done correctly).
As for all the clamoring for Gandalf’s secret identity as Starswirl, don’t give in to it unless it makes the best story possible. Gandalf does have many names though.
I would say a human Gandalf would be better even if I seem to nearly be the only one thinking so. It somehow intensify the crossover in some ways.
I don't MIND.
It kind of clashes with the whole "different races interacting" theme of Middle Earth. I mean if you have tiny people, you can have tiny ponies.
However, there are certain dynamics to the relationships and interactions Gandalf can have in Equestria that would be vastly altered depending on his form.
Then again, I have half a mind that you are planning on making his last visit have taken place during the pre-classical era, back when bells were a fad in Middle Earth for some reason...
329081
The Wiki is a great resource, its good for looking up specific facts. However, you really have to go on a binge in order to get all of the info needed. Just hop from article to article, reading up on the different aspects of Maiar nature, etc.
Gandalf isnt necessarily a shape-shifter. He chose his form when he went from the Undying Lands to Middle Earth, but he hasnt been able to since. However, he is also basically a god, so you can go nuts.
Hey! I get to be special and say....Yes, it does. I mean going pony just to avoid culture shock is about the fastest way to make some people stop reading. Not too mention it is done ALOT. So are regular humans, but they have a more interesting time integrating into pony society. Personally, I think we need to see Gandalf more as a human before even considering making him a pony. Mostly to help establish his character more. Sure people know who he is, but quite frankly you aren't Tolkien and so you are going to write him differently no matter what you do. Plus the story has a maximum of one chapter so far, having him go pony immediately kinda kills the fun. Random old pony wandering Equestria with impressive magical abilities? Kinda boring. Not much wonder or suspense there. Random old human(Maiar) wandering Equestria with impressive magical abilities? Sign me up! All in all it depends on how you want the fic to go.
Does the fact that Gandalf is in pony form cause any difficulties or dissatisfaction when reading the crossover?
Nope.
It will be interesting to see how you handle when he needs to handle his staff and blade at the same time.
Nope, but i'd like to see him in Human form, then Celestia changes him into a pony
No, it makes sense for him to travel in pony form, so as to avoid attention.
It'd be weird if he changed for no reason. I'd like to see an explanation.
However, not all human vs pony stories need concern itself mainly with any kind of cultural shock between humans and intelligent horses. This is especially the case when you're making a crossover between another story and MLP. I'm not tracking this story because it will be about a human interacting with ponies, it's because it's a major Lord of The Rings character interacting with ponies. Gandalf's personality and history is more important than that of humans (or, well Istari).
In addition, I feel authors really overdo pony surprise, fear or outrage at human form (they have seen and know of bipedal creatures before, e.g. minotaurs) or diet (if griffins aren't at least omnivores, being half eagle, half lion and based on a mythical carnivore, I'll be very cross) and so on. I'm sure most authors do it because it is a plot point. In the show proper, Zecora, which most people in Ponyville thought was a creepy earth pony with body paint, got a much worse reception than either Gilda or Iron Will - until Gilda turned out to be a thief and a bully and Iron Will, well, his teachings and business methods aren't top notch. The point here is that the only reason humans would create riots, especially in a big city like Manehatten or the jaded court of Canterlot, that is that the author wants to make a point. Hence, I feel no deep need for a cultural clash. I've seen that a thousand times already.
329081
...Hmmm. I have an idea. Though it isn't perfected.
329808
By "It'd be weird if he changed for no reason", are you referring to the fact that he changed into a pony or if I randomly made him a Man again the next chapter? And I feel like an amateur for asking this, but what is "culture shock" exactly? The moment in all HiEs where the ponies express shock at seeing the humans?
Also, if anyone cares, The Silmarillion has, so far, been a rather... eventful read. So much lore...
331357
It is weird if a HiE (or Istari in Equestria) just changes into a pony because. (They often do.) If Gandald changes himself into pony shape because it will be more covenient (no foals staring at him, can pass without ponies noticing, can find clothes), there is a reason. If there is an enchantment or the Law of the Valar or cosmic principle that changes him, presumably put up for a similar reason (or maybe its a joke by Discord, or Celestia&Luna had parents who disliked the human form, etc) then there is a reason. But many stories changes a human into a pony when entering Equestria because of PLOT! And not the euphemism for ass. They change because the story needs to: HiE stories used to be wish fulfilment about being a pony, so of course the main character (the author) has to be a pony! A lot of new stories tries to subvert this by making a pony being bad or inconvenient or changing into something else, but they are still fixated upon the changing for no in story reason.
BTW, your story eliminates one common problem of HiE stories: the humans enter at all because of PLOT. Not in your story; Gandalf is an old and wise being who knows a way of entering Equestria and does so, as far as I can tell, as a form of vacation and recreation. Under circumstances it makes sense and it fits the character's interests from LotR.
In this case, "culture shock" refers to the reaction when not just seeing humans, but when realizing humans are different from ponies in significant ways, usually made up by the author.
328929
This.
331933
So, what you're saying is that ponifying him needs to be justified thoroughly? I'm not trying to be confrontational, in case I sound like it. I'm new to this crossover thing and I'm curious, is all.
And good to hear that that I broke from stereotypical HiE's in at least one way.
334053
Not thoroughly, perhaps. Just tell us why - Gandalf probably knows, given his experience with the process. In the typical HiE fic, people just turn to ponies for no reason. In the Chess Game of the Gods fan-collaboration-thingy, powerful beings drag humans from our world into Equestria to put them against each other in a kind of game, and they seem to change them into other beings for shits and giggles - they are doing it for fun, and turning a human into a donkey is a little like choosing an avatar in a video game for them. That's not very deep, but it explains why people are changed. Likewise, you needn't a thorough explanation/reason, just one at all - to me at least. Certain explanations can even give ideas. If you say that the change is for visitors to travel unharassed because ponies value human hair as an aphrodisiac (to take something very stupid) gives one pony superstition. If you say the change is because human bodies cannot stand the magical air in Equestria, then the character will be sick if he is temporary changed back. And so on.
334095
Ah, I gotcha. Your point is that a ton of HiE fics don't even give a reason for ponification, and that I should, at the very least, provide a small bit of reasoning?
334106
Sorry for being unclear.
You earn a moustache!
Nah, I'm cool with pony Gandalf.
335137
There is nothing for you to apologize for. Thank you very much for your help!
335975
Glad to hear that!
I'll be honest... I usually prefer it when a human in Equestria stays a human in Equestria rather than becoming a pony. It's NOT a 'neat twist' or a 'new spin' or 'clever' or anything like that. In fact, it comes off as lazy and a crutch unless there's a really good NARRATIVE reason why it happens rather than just the "it's easier for the author that way" reason. Because to be honest, it is usually nothing more than a crutch, and most HiE stories use this crutch. A way to avoid all of the confusion and potential character conflicts that may arise when a strange creature meanders into town, which is honestly one of the most interesting parts of an HiE story when done right: how the ponies take it when a strange creature walks into town, and whether the somewhat xenophobic pony race can come to terms with a new citizen of such a different and ugly (to their aesthetics) species. Granted, it has to be handled with care, of course. Given that things like Minotaurs exist in Equestria, the citizens shouldn't outright freak out or become immediately dickish and hostile anything, but the disconnect between the paranoid ponies and the new and mysterious humans is still an interesting thing to explore and expand upon when done correctly.
Not only that, but more often than not, it makes no sense. A character goes through a huge change in muscular and skeletal structure and more often than not ends up capable of moving around, walking, running, jumping, and everything else mere moments after they've been changed. And if they're a pegasus, they'll usually be able to fly within a day. Same with a human turned into a unicorn and using magic. And if they're an earth pony or a pegasus, again, they'll be capable of manipulating objects with their mouth probably a half a day after they've arrived. Hell, after the drastic shift in musculature, even TALKING should be difficult for a human turned pony. It should honestly be something of a shift back to infancy for a human-turned-pony, where the person has to relearn how to move around and talk... and will probably never fully learn how to do so because of the change in body structure at such a late age. As a result, most HiE stories that do this come across as lazy and contrived.
Using Gandalf as the character in question and suggesting that he has been through this before, however, lessens the issue with my entire second paragraph. If we're to believe that he's been here before and has spent a great deal of time in Equestria in the past, then he should be somewhat familiar with how to move around and how to walk, talk, run, and use such a different form of magic that he usually uses (assuming you portray it as any different at all, of course) so I'll ignore that common gripe I have. That being said, it still feels that you are, indeed, missing out on a lot of interesting situations by making him into a pony. Unless, of course, there's a good NARRATIVE reason for it. For example, say, he turns out to have been known in Equestria's past as Starswirl the Bearded or something. Heck, even just 'he turned himself into a pony to travel without being harassed' would be a decent narrative reason. But the idea that 'everybody who crosses the threshold into Equestria becomes a pony because why not' is just lazy.