Darkness · 12:26am Feb 11th, 2013
Hello folks.
I'm currently in the middle of writing the third chapter. So last night, when I was writing it, I was also brainstorming about what direction to take the story in. There's a lot of factors to consider, but I've boiled it down to a few key ones. That's kinda besides the point, but anyway...
I'm curious... how dark is TOO dark?
Originally I intended to write this with a plot about as lighthearted as the one from The Hobbit, and I still kind of do, but I feel that some pretty dark elements might serve to spice up the story a little. Think The Two Towers, kind of, but less gory.
By the way, doesn't everyone think that King Sombra is sort of a hollowly characterized villain? I mean, they didn't go into his background at all. It's almost like the devs are begging us to amend that...
Thanks,
~Ascension.
Sombra is the best villain to ever come out of MLP, so don't say otherwise! He's better than NMM, Discord and Chrysalis put together! SOMBRA IS BEST PONY
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NOOOO, LIES, DISCORD IS BEST PONY!
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I was misleading.
He's a very good villain, but his background is disappointingly bare...
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LIES AND SLANDER
What if Sombra was corrupted by something that seemed innocent {like the one ring} but was slowly taking over. I think that would probably help here.
Too Dark: Alternative Universe where ponies eat meat and joke about it...
Dark: Grossilly Incandescent. Neat story.
I guess too dark... just depends on the content and how you deliver it. In one of my stories I have a child kill a full grown manitcore but I do not describe blood or anything like that just a short paragraph. And that story is for everyone with no teen rating or even gore. Too much blood = Dark. Creepy themes like eating sentient life = dark.
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I considered that, but I'm molding it into something that is very original.
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Well, nothing of that sort will happen.
At the worst, those kinds of things will be vaguely hinted to or implied.
me and my brony roommate laugh at Sombra as far as we were concerned he was just so..... underwhelming and tactically speaking a fool so much so me and my roommate just laugh and say "fucken Sombra" something incredibly pitiful and
discord is best villain NMM is evilest villain
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You gotta admit though, he's got a pimpin' coat.
Then you're story should be fine. I'm pretty sure you're readers and you will know when it has crossed some lines. 815378
815384 ......yes yeah I'll give you that......... but he looked like a bad OC and again he was a fool
How about King Sombra acts like the shadow in the Hobbit and he makes the the Everfree even more dark and scary and he also brings all those spiders and demons into it.
I'll be honest, Sombra... is a goldmine. Not just for character development, but as a villain!
-Nightmare Moon was born from Luna's jealousy of Celestia. She just wanted to be loved and took it too far.
-Discord was 'the mischievous spirit of disharmony'. Jackass or not, he couldn't help himself. It was in his nature to cause chaos.
-Chrysalis may have been an army-leading bitch, but her whole goal was food. She did it for her species' survival.
So, every villain so far in the series (not counting Twilicorn) has had a primal or misguided motive... except Sombra. He came from nowhere and turned his entire country into Mordor with
Linkin Parkdark magic solely for power. Not due to his nature or a necessity, but because he wanted to do it. That makes him, objectively, the first (or at least the most prevalent) truly evil being in the entire canon. And based off how every other crystal pony physically cringes in fear from just thinking of his rule...Yeah.
...Anyway, so, to answer your question:
Dark (or more commonly named "grimdark") is used to describe a setting that would equal poor living conditions and life expectancies for those living in it. It is also known for viewing the world in a more harsh, cruel way.
In the context of the story, which is set in Equestria (the happy, happy land of peacefulness and joy), the line that you would need to cross for the story to become dark would be murder.
...Oh, sorry, were you expecting 'genocide' or something?
Murder, racism, and even the notion of war are completely alien to the canon ponies. Or at least, to the ponies of 'today' (1000 years after Luna's banishment, etc etc...).
But, for it to become too dark?
I don't think there's such a thing, to be honest. It's more of a scale of darkness than a line that you can cross. The best advice I can give you is this:
Think of the show.
Imagine if the show wasn't kid-friendly... at all.
That is Dark Equestria.
Now, imagine if every dark thought that resided in the hearts of men were common-place in Equestria (from genocide to rape).
Now that's what you would call 'too dark'.
If the story needs to head to darker places that's OK. Just be true to the story, be true to the characters, and play things in the spirit of their sources. I have seen too many authors that decide that introducing darkness in a way that is alien to Equestria's standard themes will have more impact because of the contrast. But this is a mistake. Equestria plays by it's own rules. There is darkness there. Nightmare Moon tried to kill the element bearers, Discord mindraped them, Chrysalis would have enslaved all ponies as a food source. It's not the presence of darkness that sets Equestria apart, it's how that darkness is handled and related to within the context of the show that sets it apart and defines it. For instance, even in LotR there was much violence and death, but it was never portrayed as being glorified, it was always a tragedy It was there but handled very believably and relatably.
If you want an example of my opinion on how to introduce such themes to a FiM setting reasonably vs unreasonably, check out the 2 major Dresden Files crossover fics on the site: Dresden Fillies and My Little Denarians. The former deals with much darkness and strong themes, but does so in an incredibly integrated way with the nature of the FiM universe. Denarians, on the other hand, goes out of it's way to make all the darkness clash as much as possible with FiM sensibilities.
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Haha, he did look like a bad OC!
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Hmm, a bit too close to Tolkien, but pretty cool idea.
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Damn, a lot of useful bits of info. Thanks!
I mean originally the story's main villain was supposed to be NMM, but my pre-readers reminded me that WAY too many stories have her as the antagonist.
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Hmm, good points. I'll definitely be sure to check those fics out.
Though specifically, could you give me an example of clashing the darkness and FiM? Off the top of your head?
Hmm... start off with Hobbit level darkness.
If the story progresses beyond the scope of where you planned to end it, then you can follow Tolken's lead and make the story gradually darker as time goes by, as the situations become more serious.
I guess you already have something reserved for Sombra's past, but here is a suggestion, if you are interested. What if Sombra did everything he did (taking over the Crystal Empire and enslaving the ponies) because he was warned by a prophecy, of a great power coming from the "Land of Men", and that it will cause... something. Lol, I'm not really sure what it will cause (or what it is), but to stop it he needed the crystals (for some other reason I don't know
), and from that original, noble reason of gathering crystals to stop that possible force of destruction, he became corrupted and, well, we all know the rest 
. And since it's something coming from Middle-Earth, it could add the dark elements you're looking for, specially if you link it with some of the great evils back home (Sauron, Morgoth, etc). Again, this is just a suggestion, and it probably won't help you much, but if it does help you somehow, then 
.
815380 Not even Sombra could have foreseen Twilight Sparkle, the most OP unicorn in existence. He hid the heart behind a door that requires an extremely rare form of magic to hide it, with a trap triggered by dark magic, and the heart was trapped as well. It was through sheer dumb luck that she managed to knock the heart free from the area the crystal prison would block. that and if she'd told him to stay back, she wouldn't have been able to get it to Cadance at all. Sombra was *this* close to winning.
Oh, and NMM wasn't evil, she was just bitter and angry. A god-tier tantrum, if you will.
Sombra kind of reminds me of a certain ominous LotR villain.
Is there such a thing as "too dark?" You could merge MLP with Warhammer 40k, the gold-standard of grim-dark, and make it seem plausable, if you write well enough. I'd keep the "darkness" level around that of the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings trilogy.
(how do you do those multi-reply things?)
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Your pre-readers are very wise.
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Multi-reply? Clicking the "reply" button gives you a link. Usually a number first. Then, after the site loads the comment, it becomes a name.
Click the reply button again and it should 'stack'.
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Oh, yes they are.
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Ah yes. Much, much luck was involved in the ponies' victory over Sombra. Maybe too much.
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Good points, thanks!
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Well, I actually had something vaguely like that planned, my perceptive friend.
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...So, I take it Sombra will be the main antagonist?
If so, I have a few more observations like the one I made. If you want, I'll gladly share them.
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He's not the main antagonist.
Or maybe he is.
Or maybe he is and he's not.
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t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTQO5ZQBUyj9HNxNf0PU8T3ZM07g94WTYPjzojZ2smulqkNAhg6
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...So, I take it you haven't decided yet?
That's fine, actually. I'm pretty sure most of us don't care for action yet. We've barely met the ponies, after all!
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I've decided.
Or maybe I haven't.
Or maybe I have and I have not.
Should I stop this? I think I should.
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...So, I take it you realized how repetitive that became?
816449
Yes.
To answer your question, though, Sombra will definitely be playing a role as a major antagonist. Not sure if he'll be the only one, though.
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Let me give you an extreme example from a fic I will not name due to it being rewritten without the relevant scene (this is NOT either of the fics I mentioned earlier):
Celestia has been possessed by a demon, turning her into a tyrant. At one point she is able to capture Rainbow Dash. The author wanted her to torment Dash to the point her spirit would be broken so that she would need significant recovery, hope, and spiritual and emotional healing once she was rescued. Knowing the way Equestria works knowing what we know about Dash, there are tons and tons of emotional, physical and psychological tactics Celestia could utilize to achieve this. I mean Dash is strong, but she has so many vulnerabilities. So what is done? Are her wings plucked/clipped/magically removed? Are the Wonderbolts called in to tell her she's worthless trash? Is she given visions of her friends dying because she failed to save them? Is her element used against her to brainwash her into being loyal to Celestia? Are any of these horrible, yet within the realm of reasonable, possibilities utilized to create a terribly dark yet not unbelievable trauma for poor Dash?
Nope.
Celestia has an unconscious Dash restrained with a magic collar that allows Celestia to control her movements, and then chains Dash to her bed. And then Celestia wakes Dash up and rapes Dash with her horn. Because it's a terrible hurtful thing to do. Which is reasonable. But not reasonable within the context of how the setting for these events works.
Not that I think you would do anything like that. As I said this is an extreme example of how to orchestrate a dark scene in a way that clashes with the setting.
We have seen darkness in the show. Twilight was essentially killed by that Cockatrice temporarily. One princess was struck down while another was nearly starved to death. Things like that have their own logic in Equestria, there's no reason to force them to fit a mold they were never meant for.
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Ah, okay! I understand perfectly now.
Thank you.
EDIT: That's really hardcore. Shiiiiit.
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For the Multi-replies, jut scroll back up and click on the reply button for teh other comments you want to also reply to.
As for an actually good Warhammer40K/FiM crossover fic that managed to believably portray both properties accurately but with "hobbit level" violence... Enjoy: http://www.fimfiction.net/story/3146/A-Foul-Light-Shines
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Hardcore indeed. The act was not described at all (the scene ended when the rape began), yet I was still seriously emotionally traumatized for about a week after reading it; suffering anxiety, depression, and physical illness.
...
I am somewhat unhealthily attached to these characters.
816492 Nearly ALL of us bronies are unhealthily attached to these characters.
They are the reason why most of the more well-known bronies exist.