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May
9th
2016
Wait a minute... · 5:41pm May 9th, 2016
Ponies don't eat meat. So I guess they don't use leather either? 
Y'know, since that would require skinning something and making stuff out of a creature that's dead. (We'd hope it's dead, anyway. 
)
Just wondering since I'm sort of starting this kinky clopfic, and I just realized ponies + leather = nonsensical. Can they use synthetic leather? ...But who the hell would invent synthetic leather? Wouldn't it still be weird to try and make clothing and accessories that emulates the feel of dead skin? 
IRL, ponies will eat fish occasionally. And we see Big Mac and the other Apples fishing in one episode. Fluttershy also gives some otters some fish, which she held in her mouth, and almost certainly had no problem with them being dead and in her mouth.
3932949
But where would they get leather from? What are the Apples' boots made out of?
Cow slave race. The thrill of forbidden accessories. Star Swirl went to the human world once or twice, discovered the awesomeness of leather jackets, and introduced a synthetic variant to Equestria where it enjoyed the same boom in popularity.
Take your pick, I've got more.
Hmmmm. Maybe leather works differently? You could just use chains? Maybe they use other matirials to simulate leather for comfort? This is quite the rabbit hole I've entered.
3932952
Aaaaaugh, fuck it. Whatever. Star Swirl did it. That's my excuse. I don't want to stop writing my clop because logic.
STAR SWIRL DID IT.
In the wild, horses will kill and eat small animals. If you're going quad, not anthro, then you don't need much, but it'll probably be a luxury good, especially if it requires sourcing. In my anthro 'verse it's a SERIOUS luxury good; Twilight having a single pair of thigh high boots, a leather bikini bottom, leather bra, and elbow-length leather gloves is a sign of not just her wealth, but the wealth of her subs who got the material, sourced it, and then got it to Rarity to get it made. It also let me throw in a little bit of a chilling remark about "all griffon-made leather not coming under the New Griffonstone Reforms being banned."
In those terms, synthetic leather WOULD be a possibility, because if the 'real stuff' is either hyper-expensive or outright black market with serious penalties, having a mid-level provision is very useful; leather's a pretty good material so some form of synthesis, not just for luxurywear, might be a big thing.
Alternatively, there could be some weird-ass biomancy going on.
3932951
I would hope that they wouldn't be killing cows for their hide, because we know that in canon, buffalo/yaks, ponies and the like are "satient" in a sense.
This would be like humans killing humans for skin.
3932954
I'm doing petplay with Fluttershy. I don't think she'd be a happy pet with chains.
Leather is comfortable, but strong. Seemed an obvious choice. Also, Rarity as a mistress needs leather. She just does.
I'm surprised I haven't seen someone else ask this question before.
3932956 A beard did it is perfectly workable but probably not necessary here. Heck, illicit thrill could be a part of the market for the stuff, especially in the BDSM crew. Edgy and all that.
3932961 Maybe they can make it out of different materials? I don't really have much.
3932960
My thoughts exactly! Even non-speaking animals are remarkably intelligent, so killing them for skinning purposes feels rather cruel. It was getting to the point that I was even considering "leather trees". I mean, there are all kinds of silly things that exist in the MLP 'verse, so why the hell not? But it felt far fetched, even in this setting...
3932957
Hmm... Yeah, my story is quad. No anthro. I want to write more regular pony fics (just to prove to people that I can totally write pastel ponies) but also because it just really works for a petplay IMO.
I like the idea that KingMoriarty suggested where Star Swirl went to the human world, discovered leather, and invented a synthetic version in the pony world. The idea that real leather would be black market sounds good. The other thing that I could suggest is that perhaps in more barbaric times, sentient races who thought themselves superior in some way made leather out of the other races, and the practice became taboo with time. Synthetic leather could have arisen as a way to keep something similar to the material without actually reverting to bizarre murder.
3932961 Actually, that gives you a REALLY good in, there. If leather is a serious luxury good due to the lack of need, but Fluttershy has to work with, say, Harry, to procure nonsapient meat for Flutters' other carnivore critters, she may be able to get the leather supply and gift it to Rares. They could work together to make it, a sort of romantic activity with a little morbidness, but it might be a part of taboo exploration?
3932966
I kind of like the idea of making black market leather a thing to discuss in my story. Maybe Rarity and Flutters encounter a D/s pair at a BDSM club that make use of the real thing and object to it? I dunno...
3932972 Quad actually works easier than anthro there because full coverage isn't generally expected. You could combine it as you like, though.
Huh. So-- leather is a known material, but let's say that the first to really use it a lot were the gryphons. They needed lightweight armor and thought themselves superior. Maybe have Fluttershy gift the skins to Rarity and make some soft pleading for some "gryphonian" touches to work out some odd feelings after Gilda was a jackwagon to her?
Actually, in nature equines do occasionally eat meat. They've been observed hunting, killing, and eating small mammals (like rabbits) and birds. Usually, this is only done during times where their plant diet is unavailable, they have also been observed eating meat even when other food is readily available -- meaning that some do it just because they like the taste.
On the steppes, tribes would feed offal and blood to their horses as a protein supplement.
In the show, we have seen ponies eating meat in the form of eggs (usually in baked goods, but occasionally for breakfast as well) and fish.
I'd imagine leather might've been used by Pegasi back when they were a martial culture. In addition, other species would have no trouble using leather -- Griffons, for instance -- and I can see leather being a trade good. It'd be decadent and exotic and foreign. If you're talking about kinkiness, then the whole forbidden aspect of leather might even enhance that.
As far as synthetic leather is concerned, assuming leather being a trade good and a lot of ponies desiring it, but uncomfortable with the source, then that would provide a commercial incentive to invent faux leather.
3932975 That makes a lot of sense. I don't know how you're planning to deal with the "Fluttershy Fears" thing here, but I imagine that Rarity might slowly introduce Flutters into the scene (with play masks or whatever for her social anxiety) and could lean in real close, watching Flutters' body language and asking if she likes this or that. Then if you want the revulsion on the real thing, you could either (a) have them both object and then talk about synthetic alternatives, or (b) have Rarity object and Flutters be bold for once and bring up her own supply possibilities vs. black market, or (c) whatever brings you to what you want to go to; could add some minor plot or background for kinky discussion that leads into a scene.
Heh. Fashion Police Rarity busting Naughty Fluttershy's Leather Smuggling Ring. Can Naughty Fluttershy propitiate Officer Rarity with some "impounds"? Will Officer Rarity be a vigilante and enact some "suitable punishment" on the spot? "Tan your atrocious little hide, you naughty smuggler, you."
3932994
Lol, actually, both will be novices. The premise is:
Rarity is introduced to the leather scene thanks to a client looking to collaborate on a new edgy clothing line. She's intrigued but uncertain of it all. She confides in Fluttershy, whose been harboring her own petplay fantasy for a long time, but just lacking in the courage to pursue it. After drumming up some courage, she carefully asks Rarity to be her mistress. Rarity is hesitant, but decides to give it a try. They sort of learn and grow together as a D/s pair.
I think it's more convincing to begin with them as starting out rather than having them start out as experienced, even if it's just one of them into it. I still intend on overcoming Rarity's canon sexual preference, and giving a deeper, kinkier explanation to Fluttershy's "it's so nice being the pet for once" dream from Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep?
3932983
Oopsies! Yeah, some have already commented stating that horses can eat meat. Thinking back, I recall reading about that somewhere. I feel sort of silly.
The whole leather thing isn't feeling so impossible now. Griffons totally would be the ones to use leather. Maybe pegasi hunted non-speaking creatures and used their hides for their armor as well?
It's all coming together!
3933019 Interesting! Sounds rather hot and intriguing, actually; only bit is I dunno a preference for a "prince to sweep her off her feet" is really a canon declaration of straight-- she could be bi but wants the classic romance (and might hence develop a different romantic ideal within SSC and power exchange here)-- but that's sort of beside the point.
I think you've got a good facet there; if they're both newbies into the scene and the aesthetics that Rarity is looking to grab, having them get series of shocks where one has to comfort-seduce-walk the other through alternating between them (Rarity starts the line, Fluttershy asks for the D/s, Rarity comes up with the first scene) etc. For leather specifically, that could tie back into the inciting incident. Much like Rarity with the fabric that Suri stole, she could (more cautiously) BE the one who comes up with the synthetic leather.
And not just for her edgy line/making certain play more accessible; Twi or someone else might take steps to prevent the process from being stolen from her by getting a royal contract for pegasus armor with the stuff (again, lightweight, and since it's fantasy, you can decide how easily it takes enchantments or whatever) and get a happily ever after with both her dreams and sweeping Fluttershy off her feet and into a suspension play harness.
Or whatever. ;)
Ponies do eat meat! Even in the show... (the infamous ham sandwich from Bird in the Hoof)
Also, I'd be all to happy to consult on the whole D/s part of it, so it doesn't come across as 50 Shades.
3933035
There was a ham sandwich in Bird in the Hoof?
Thanks! I'll let you know! Once I finish a few chapters, I'll shop it around for pre-readers and such. I don't want to make anyone read a work that doesn't feel likely to keep going. I have a ton of fics I start but never get around to continuing. I think I have 12 unfinished drafts on this account alone...?
3933034
It's true! I wasn't going to make a HUGE deal out of it... It's just, canon-wise, we haven't gotten any indication that she would ALSO be into mares. I realize that's because Hasbro is playing it safe with their kids' show, but it still something I have to convince some readers of. I find it entirely plausible that she could be bisexual. The only real change would be the role reversal. Her fantasies about relationships often have her in the "damsel" or "submissive" role, but Fluttershy will never be dominant period, so I thought I could ease her transition into this by playing up her OCD control freak nature.
3932972
The Everfree Forest could very well be a location for said trees.
3933055 In this case power exchange refers not to switching but to the exchange of power inherent in the sub putting power for the physical/emotional immediacy of the scene in the top's hands, but the top respecting the sub's consent via safeword/caution words and similar signals. I'd also like to volunteer to preread for similar reasons to SPP, if you'd like; I've been peripherally involved in the scene for two decades, and I've actually been putting a lot of research and thought into the relationships and scenes for my own fics which tend towards the Kinky-- including kinks not my own as a part of background/establishing.
3933055 Oh, er, role reversal for RARITY argh.
I think there's some aspect of that in a lot of parts of her personality. She's very controlling over her business, and does in fact already seize people to bring them along to fit/measure etc. Having this start as an aspect of fashion might be a pretty good key, especially since Fluttershy has been a model... Heck, you could have Flutters explain that in addition to hating being on display in front of other poinies, she didn't trust Photo Finish like she trusts Rarity, and would like to be "on show" for her (dressage/pony play terms from RL might be good here).
The other aspect is Generosity. There's a school of thought that says that while a bottom is giving up control, a top should be giving pleasure-- not that "eat me out" or whatever doesn't happen, but it should be in the context of creating a pleasurable scene for sub-- even orgasm denial fits into that; edging done right can bring both male and female subs to some truly quality-over-quantity climaxes because you get really sensitized all over. Similarly, sense denial focuses the body on other senses; even blindfolding and tying down a sub can be about the quality of pleasure, not just the context of it.
Not all sceners agree, but I think this would make for a very good thing for Rarity. She gets to feel both like she's managing and creating a "dream"/being taken care of by the kind and obedient sub, but also gets to be very generous to her pet (and friend).
3933022
Eh, it doesn't seem to be a widely known fact. I only know about it because I was curious after watching ponies and specifically researched it.
Even so, horses can't process animal protein very well and too much of it will make them sick. So they're mostly herbivorous while sticking a toe into the omnivorous pool. Fluttershy in particular should be comfortable with animals eating meat as she takes care of animals that are omnivorous or even carnivorous.
I imagine pegasi would need leather for lining and straps of their plate armor, if nothing else. Without modern chemistry, there's nothing else that can compete. Plate armor is extremely uncomfortable (especially metal plate armor) without some kind of cushioning and there's little else one can use with medieval or classical level technology that compares to the flexibility and strength of leather for straps.
You don't just put a bucket on your head and call it a helmet, or a garbage can around your torso and call it a chestplate. Having to wear those things for hours during strenuous activities (both marching/flying or actual combat) basically necessitates some sort of padding.
And full leather armor would be useful for pegasi who are less heavy strike soldiers and more hit-and-fade roles. They absolutely would need the flexibility and lightness that comes with leather. Metal plate simply wouldn't cut it for those kind of tactics.
3933097 yes, yes, yes on all counts!
that's so cool that we're on the same wavelength. Rarity's attention to detail and her controlling nature make her an ideal mistress. And I heartily agree that even her element of generosity makes her an excellent fit for a dominant role. I've never had the pleasure of being involved in the community, but I've watched it for years from afar, and one thing I've gathered is that a dominant partner can very much be like a caretaker. I know some of the "tough" doms object to this idea (good grief, the ass holes I've met on Fetlife...) but many really do take care of their subs, both in fulfilling their desires, keeping them safe, and even helping with after care.
3933097 and on the prereading: sure thing! Because I lack firsthand experience, I'd hate to write something ignorant and out of touch with reality. Your input would be very helpful
3933142 The overall tech level is actually more 1800s. With the caveat that there's a lot of schizophrenic / anachronistic tech that shows up, like computers, movie theaters, working knowledge of the atom, modern NBC suits, etc etc etc...
3933055 Yep! Right in front of AJ on the banquet table. The whole time Celestia is there. It's a sandwich made with a pink meat.
There's also Pinkie's hot dog comment in Fall Weather Friends.
But there's also nothing shown in canon that says they can't eat meat, and in fact lots of references to the fact their digestion is closer to human than ungulate. Twilight specifically asks for a daisy sandwich in Ticket Master, and eats a tomato sandwich in A Royal Canterlot Wedding Part 1. Both of these are poisonous to horses.
And that's fine, I just thought I'd offer my questionable expertise in the matter. In Domination & Degradation / (BDSM themed RP channel) there's a bot that runs the room and sorts the characters by dom/sub status, who has thousands of responses, plays games (Braindrain and Kinktionary. I'm really good at kinktionary.) and has coding that saves an "inventory" for each character. The head op for the channel, and someone whom is generally held to be very good at Domming, told the bot to give me an item named "R.E.S.P.E.C.T." to say nothing of respect garnered from other regulars who are likewise regarded as skilled.
3933190
In the show currently, yes, but I was speaking specifically about the technology level over a thousand years ago when the pegasi were a martial culture.
3933267 There's no indication of that in your post.
But in that case, they'd handle it the way the Romans did. Leather and fabric mostly with a little metal for shits and giggles. Pegasus culture pre-unification was more Roman than feudal Medieval. Commander Hurricane (who was a dude) is more Alexander the Great than Lancelot.
3933284
... I ... didn't think I needed one, considering the context of the post was in reference to ancient pegasi practices.
The culture might be, sure, but the technological ability was clearly medieval. All three tribes were depicted as being more-or-less technologically equivalent.
We also see that pegasi used full plate, or at least what appears to be full plate. Commander Hurricane's chest armor is segmented like full plate, at least. Fluttershy's isn't, though. I suppose you could argue that it was an embellishment for the play if you really wanted to.
Regardless, whether they wore full plate or not is irrelevant to point I was making which was that, for armor of the technology available at the time, leather would be difficult if not impossible to replace in functionality.
You can actually get leather from non-animal sources, namely cork and kelp, aka ocean leather. It's still not synthetic (because it's natural), and wouldn't necessarily be made to emulate dead-skin leather. Plenty of other materials are made from plants, an especially tough one made from kelp wouldn't be out of the question.