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alarajrogers


Okay, I admit it, I'm probably not your mom. But odds are I'm old enough to be. Now with Patreon account (under alarajrogers) and short stories on Amazon (under Alara Rogers).

More Blog Posts376

  • 17 weeks
    Dream log, epic Fluttercord edition

    Had a dream during a nap that is perfectly suited to be a story; I'm not even sure I need to tweak it.

    So in the dream, Fluttershy was dying of old age, and Discord couldn't fix it. (She also had insulin-resistant diabetes, but that's kind of less important.) Discord was very upset by this, and decided to take drastic steps to prevent it.

    Read More

    7 comments · 466 views
  • 26 weeks
    Dammit, just discovered a friend here's been dead for two years...

    Today I learned that Jordan died in April 2021, and I had no idea. I was re-reading some of my older fanfics, saw his comments, thought, "Huh, I wonder how Jordan's doing", and the answer is, he's not. Dammit.

    Read More

    15 comments · 662 views
  • 28 weeks
    FUCKING DONE FINALLY

    "The God of Breaking Rules In The Land of the Dead" is one of my oldest stories on this site. It's not my oldest incomplete -- "The King Who Would Be Man" and "Stumble In My Footsteps" are both older, all part of my initial rush in 2013-14 when I'd first gotten into the fandom and the writing came like a river. But it is old, posted almost 10 years ago (closer to 9 years, 11 months), and

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    10 comments · 416 views
  • 29 weeks
    I'm back, bitches!

    I don't know for how long, because I never know these things.

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    17 comments · 540 views
  • 78 weeks
    A thing y'all should maybe know

    I may or may not make the change here on Fimfiction, but on Archive of our Own and Fanfiction.net, I am changing my handle to Kaleidolon. Mainly as a branding differentiator between fanfic and profic. It's not like I can hide that Alara J Rogers writes fanfic, not after posting it to the Internet for literally 29 years, but when I get published in real life I want it to be slightly

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    8 comments · 1,106 views
Apr
2nd
2015

Why Fluttercord does not fit Beauty and the Beast · 7:17pm Apr 2nd, 2015

I have seen many, many takes on Beauty and the Beast, Phantom of the Opera, or similar kinds of stories with Fluttershy as the beauty and Discord as the beast. On the surface of it this seems like an obvious connection -- Fluttershy is, by her own society's standards and by ours, a beauty, and Discord is, by pony standards and by our standards, a beast. However, there are some very important differences between their story in canon, and the way the classic beauty and beast story goes, that ruin or damage what Fluttershy and Discord have in canon when they're applied.

The Beauty and the Beast story goes like this: A monstrous, beastly man captures a beautiful, innocent woman and forces her to live with him. (In the Phantom of the Opera variant, he just forces his presence on her, keeping himself hidden from her.) The beast recognizes that he is monstrous and assumes the beauty cannot love him, but forces his presence on her anyway. The beauty treats him kindly, or comes to value his presence, and this leads him to treat her more kindly. In the Beauty and the Beast original, and most variants, the Beast then becomes a handsome prince or otherwise has his curse broken, and the girl ends up loving him; in the Phantom of the Opera version, the girl's kindness tames the Phantom's jealous possessiveness, and he stays his hand from killing her lover and releases her from the marriage he would have forced on her.

Part of the enduring power of this story throughout the ages is that for centuries this was how marriage worked for most couples. A woman (or a girl, by our standards) would be given in an arranged marriage, usually to an older man she didn't know well. The story tells the woman that if she treats the "beast" she is forced to live with with kindness and care, she will come to love him, he will come to love her, and he will metamorphose in her eyes from a beastly monster to a handsome prince. It tells men that the women they have taken into their homes as wives won't see them as a beast forever, but that if they give her gifts and treat her kindly she will come to see them as a prince. For a society where that's how marriage worked, it was a very powerful tale.

However, that is not how canonically Discord and Fluttershy's friendship started. In canon, it's Fluttershy who initiates the connection between them. Celestia asks her to, but Fluttershy takes on the project enthusiastically (at least at first) and chooses the method of reformation -- offering kindness and friendship. Discord is not imposing his presence on Fluttershy; he goes out of his way to annoy the shit out of her, but he's more her prisoner than she is his (until he gets that promise that she won't use her Element, his choices are to play this scenario out or to flee, but if he flees he knows the next time he's not watching his back he'll get a rainbow to the face. He's not her literal prisoner -- he can run whenever he wants -- but if he does he'll be in danger.)

So any adaptation of a Beauty-and-the-Beast-like story onto Fluttercord -- and this includes "Bride of Discord" -- has to start their friendship from the position of Discord forcing his presence on Fluttershy. Notice how "force his presence" comes very close to the phrase "force himself", a euphemism for rape. No, neither the Beast nor the Phantom ever rape their would-be loves, but the stories have an undercurrent of erotic horror precisely because what does happen would, in real life, very often be a precursor to rape. Men who kidnapped women to be their wives raped them, generally. Men who married women in arranged marriages might wait until their new wife was resigned to the prospect of sex and accepted it, but they were legally entitled to force sex on them. And when the Phantom tries to force Christine to marry him, or when the Beast forces Beauty to live with him, that is the undercurrent that's being invoked. The stories don't actually involve rape, but there's a subtext in there -- the agency, the desires of the woman in question are being ignored. It's not her choice to be in proximity to the beast, it's his. She may get him to accept her agency and desires, or her desires may change, but the story starts with her as his victim.

But the whole reason the Fluttercord friendship is beautiful, and the whole reason they would be worth shipping, is that Fluttershy is the one who extends friendship to Discord first. He doesn't force it on her -- he doesn't even want it or believe in it. He torments her for fun, but he's also trapped in the situation, forced to pretend to a friendship he doesn't think he wants in order to get his freedom. It's a complete inversion of the Beauty and the Beast trope. The Beauty imprisons the Beast long enough to show him what kindness and friendship look like, and then releases him, and says "If you will use your freedom responsibly I will give you my friendship freely, but should you choose to remain a monster, we will have to remain enemies." Yes, Discord is much more powerful than Fluttershy, but he doesn't force her to do anything. And because he's more powerful than her, she can't literally force him to do anything either. Her promise not to use her Element gives him his freedom; it's his choice whether to use it to keep her friendship or make her an enemy again.

We have seen what happens when Discord ignores Fluttershy's agency and desires. He screws with her head and feels no remorse for it. Discord treating Fluttershy like an object he can dominate is monstrous and does not result in her being kind to him, or coming to love him; it results in him getting outfitted for a stone tux. This is healthy, this is right. When the powerful one is abusive, domineering, and ignores the will of the weaker one, he does not win love or friendship; he gets prison and loneliness. When the weaker one, of her own accord, offers the powerful one friendship, that is what changes him and that is how they become actual friends. You don't get to be friends with a girl by abusing her, you get to be friends with her if she decides to be friends with you or if you choose to act like a friend to her. (And ditto for becoming friends with a guy.)

Many people find the Beauty and the Beast story romantic. I find it deeply problematic. How is the Beast, who forces Beauty to remain with him because of her father's trespassing on his property, different from the witch who forces Rapunzel to remain with her because of Rapunzel's father's trespass on her property? The witch gets destroyed in most versions of Rapunzel, and the Beast gets love. Why does he deserve that when the witch doesn't? The fact that the Beauty has to tame the Beast for her own survival, and because he has forced that situation on her, is very, very different from Fluttershy being tasked with reforming Discord by the leader she respects and loves, and choosing to do so by offering him kindness and friendship.

In addition, the Beast knows he's monstrous and assumes no one could love him. If this is taken metaphorically, it's in character for Discord, but most writers take it literally, assuming that Discord thinks that he is ugly because ponies do. There is literally no evidence for this whatsoever. Discord plasters his own face all over everything and describes himself as handsome, constantly. I'm sure he's smart enough to be aware that ponies don't agree with him as to how wonderful he is, but there is a difference between "She can't possibly love me because I'm hideous" and "She can't possibly love me because stupid ponies have no taste." One of the things that makes Discord attractive as a character is how totally unashamed he is of his own weirdness. He's completely and totally different from ponies, and because he loves chaos and disharmony, he perceives this as good. He likes being different. Beauty and the Beast-troped stories that impose the imago of "romantic princeling who appears monstrous" on him are just wrong. Discord is not a classic romantic princeling -- sure, he might give flowers to someone he likes, but he's not a brooding gothic prince who'll suddenly become perfect with the love of a good woman -- he's a weirdo, he will always be a weirdo, and he wouldn't be able to love someone who wanted him to not be a weirdo.

Fluttershy does not change who Discord is. She doesn't transform him into a handsome pony prince; she doesn't transform him into someone who is not chaotic or disharmonious; she doesn't make him less weird. She just acts as an external conscience to replace the one he doesn't have, teaching him to be good through the application of "What Would Fluttershy Approve Of?" Yes, she's making him less monstrous, but she's not taking away any of the visually apparent traits of his being a "monster"; she's socializing him, teaching him to be a good person, but he's still going to be the same person, just less of a jerk.

A good AU story about a ship doesn't destroy the traits that made it a good ship in the first place. All Beauty-and-Beast stories, however well written, have the fatal flaw that they depend on Discord forcing his way into Fluttershy's life rather than Fluttershy freely offering. Even if he doesn't force anything on her other than his presence -- such as in Bride of Discord, where he agrees not to force her into marriage, but to wait until she comes to love him, but still holds her prisoner in order to make her love him -- it still introduces an element of predation into their relationship, some sense that Fluttershy's eventual love is as much Stockholm Syndrome as anything else. A story where Discord is either Fluttershy's prisoner -- which is more or less what happened in canon -- or where Discord and Fluttershy's friendship comes about when they freely choose to associate with each other -- as in "The Draconequus with the Dragon Tattoo", where as long as Fluttershy is Discord's prisoner she thinks he's an asshole, and it's not until she freely chooses to save his life and he chooses to return the favor and behave as a friend that their friendship develops -- is much more compelling because it's closer to the original and keeps the same sense of Fluttershy's strength and power in the relationship.

I'll add to this that I have a lot less problem with this trope when it's gender-flipped, for two reasons. A. It's not totally overdone, and B. because it's not totally overdone, it's a lot easier to see Eris forcing Butterscotch to live with her as being cruel and unjustified behavior. Genderswapping a problematically gendered trope has the ability to force a new perspective on readers and make them recognize that in fact the trope is screwed up. I don't think a female character is any more justified in holding a male character prisoner until he loves her than the other way around, but I think we are more likely to notice the male character being deprived of agency and the female character's behavior as wrong rather than romantic.

Report alarajrogers · 1,065 views ·
Comments ( 22 )

As I've come to expect, you are the best advocate for Discord on the site, especially in terms of his self-image. Excellently argued from all angles.

I mostly agree with this, and have actually contemplated writing a one shot where Discord tells Fluttershy straight out that he doesn't CARE what others think of his appearance.
However, I cannot lie. I am fluttercord trash and enjoy these stories anyway. :B You can find them in my favorites list.

This is so interesting-the dissection is truly well thought-out.
Made me think of some of my stories (and not just the fanfictions) in a different way.
Thanks!

In canon, it's Fluttershy who initiates the connection between them. Celestia asks her to, but Fluttershy takes on the project enthusiastically (at least at first) and chooses the method of reformation -- offering kindness and friendship.

Though Celestia, I believe, had a good idea of how things were generally likely to turn out. She knew Discord's nature -- and Fluttershy's. DIscord's "weakness" -- from the perspective of being a villain -- is that he'd much rather play than destroy, though he can be quite destructive in his play. And he doesn't like to kill Ponies -- and in fact, basically likes Ponies, though his power and randomness usually frightens Ponies away. I think Celestia figured that somepony as sweet as Fluttershy, who was not afraid of him, would be irresistible to Discord.

Part of the enduring power of this story throughout the ages is that for centuries this was how marriage worked for most couples. A woman (or a girl, by our standards) would be given in an arranged marriage, usually to an older man she didn't know well. The story tells the woman that if she treats the "beast" she is forced to live with with kindness and care, she will come to love him, he will come to love her, and he will metamorphose in her eyes from a beastly monster to a handsome prince. It tells men that the women they have taken into their homes as wives won't see them as a beast forever, but that if they give her gifts and treat her kindly she will come to see them as a prince. For a society where that's how marriage worked, it was a very powerful tale.

That's a good insight, and I can see how in cultures with arranged marriages, this would serve as good advice for both bride and groom. It tells both parties that if they are kind to one another and really work at the marriage, it can be successful and they can both be happy.

The fear of the young bride in such an arranged marriage may be obvious (emotional, physical and sexual abuse from an older, more powerful mate); that of the groom would be very real too. He would fear that his bride would hate and despise him, and ultimately cuckold him with younger men and economically exploit him. In short, he would fear that he would be unloved. His best bet would be to treat his younger bride kindly, so that she would come to love him in truth.

Since you mention Fluttershy, I'll point out that in the terms of the application of game theory to love in A Robust Solution, what the Beauty and the Beast tale points out is that the couple can chose to play a positive-sum game, in which both benefit, through mutual cooperation. Their fate should one or both of them defect would be unhappy, especially since the "game" of marriage is indefinitely iterated (unless one spouse abandons or murders the other, neither knows how long their union will last) (*)

So any adaptation of a Beauty-and-the-Beast-like story onto Fluttercord -- and this includes "Bride of Discord" -- has to start their friendship from the position of Discord forcing his presence on Fluttershy.

True. Which isn't what happens in canon. Or my fanon, really: even in Divine Jealousy and the Voice of Reason, Discord is much more angry at Bulk, rather than Fluttershy (which is actually patronizing and self-deluding of him -- he is essentially tdenying the reality that Fluttershy chose to take Bulk as a lover,, and deliberately not noticing that Fluttershy probably initiated the affair).

The main way in which the situation is similar to Beauty and the Beast, however, is that Fluttershy is by far younger and more innocent (in all senses of the term) than is Disccord. That part of it does fit the model. What doesn't, as you point out, is that it is Fluttershy who is pursuing Discord (whether as a friend or more) -- at least until the honey trap has worked and Discord is ensnared by his own caring for her. Arguably, this happened from "Keep Calm and Flutter On" and worked itself out through Season Four, culminating in Discord's huge Heel Realization and probable real Heel Face Turn in Twilight's Kingdom (beautifully told from Discord's POV in Traitor).

When the powerful one is abusive, domineering, and ignores the will of the weaker one, he does not win love or friendship; he gets prison and loneliness. When the weaker one, of her own accord, offers the powerful one friendship, that is what changes him and that is how they become actual friends. You don't get to be friends with a girl by abusing her, you get to be friends with her if she decides to be friends with you or if you choose to act like a friend to her. (And ditto for becoming friends with a guy.)

Very true. In my fanon, this is why the Royal Seraglio in Royal Business that Celestia built was never put to its intended purpose. Even though Celestia would have been taking on voluntary concubines rather than prisoners, it still struck her as too abusive, and the first steps on the path that would have led her to become Molestia or Tyrantlestia, when she was faced with the prospect of actually doing this. (**)

The fact that the Beauty has to tame the Beast for her own survival, and because he has forced that situation on her, is very, very different from Fluttershy being tasked with reforming Discord by the leader she respects and loves, and choosing to do so by offering him kindness and friendship.

I've always thought that Fluttershy was actually one of the bravest of Ponies; it's just that her kindness normally restrains her for fear of hurting the feelings of others. She comes from a Pegasus culture (in my fanon, the highest aristocracy of her Kind) that puts a premium on athletic display and martial pride, and her own courage is normally of a more quiet and subtle variety.

How many Pegasi would willingly bring themselves to Discord's attention, and on a regular basis? Fluttershy knows he's dangerous, after all. She's felt his power. And yet she's willing to brave his possible wrath, for the good of Equestria and for the good of Discord himself.

I suspect that Discord realizes -- and respects -- her courage. In my fanon, it's one of the reasons he's decided not to harm her ... she's like the heroine of one of the fairy tales or adventure tales he loved when he was being raised by Ponies, and thus he can't bring himself to destroy her, because, deep down, he actually would rather be the Hero than the Monster. He doesn't let on wholly, even to himself, but he sees her as another chance to make the Princess Game real, and this time with a happier ending.

One of the things that makes Discord attractive as a character is how totally unashamed he is of his own weirdness. He's completely and totally different from ponies, and because he loves chaos and disharmony, he perceives this as good. He likes being different. Beauty and the Beast-troped stories that impose the imago of "romantic princeling who appears monstrous" on him are just wrong. Discord is not a classic romantic princeling -- sure, he might give flowers to someone he likes, but he's not a brooding gothic prince who'll suddenly become perfect with the love of a good woman -- he's a weirdo, he will always be a weirdo, and he wouldn't be able to love someone who wanted him to not be a weirdo.an -- he's a weirdo, he will always be a weirdo, and he wouldn't be able to love someone who wanted him to not be a weirdo.

Note well: Fluttershy is also an unashamed weirdo. Just of a different kind. I think that one reason they like each other is that, in a strange sense, they are Kindred Spirits.

Fluttershy does not change who Discord is. She doesn't transform him into a handsome pony prince; she doesn't transform him into someone who is not chaotic or disharmonious; she doesn't make him less weird. She just acts as an external conscience to replace the one he doesn't have, teaching him to be good through the application of "What Would Fluttershy Approve Of?" Yes, she's making him less monstrous, but she's not taking away any of the visually apparent traits of his being a "monster"; she's socializing him, teaching him to be a good person, but he's still going to be the same person, just less of a jerk.

Of course, the reason why this is still truly a trap -- as Celestia well knew when she arranged their friendship -- is that, in time, Discord is very likely to Become the Mask. Both your Discord and mine had a time when they were a lot nicer (though still extremely weird) and played constructively (or at least non-destructively) with Ponies. Both your Discord and mine were socialized in the first place by Ponies, and thus tend to like Ponies and enjoy being liked by them in return. So there's an older pattern of behavior, to which they could return in time. And Celestia knows this very well, because she used to be his lover and best friend.

The actually-creepy thing about this -- though it also speaks of Celestia's generosity and kindness -- is that in a sense she set Fluttershy up to be her own replacement in Discord's heart. Though part of the reason is that Celestia just can't deal with him that way any more ... too many bad things have happened between them in the intervening centuries since they were good friends.

In "Two Hearts," the short sequel to The Last Unicorn, Molly Grue hasn't quarreled with Schmendrick but she does something similar: she's aging and knows she will die long before Schmendrick's aging process even really restarts, so she sets things up that the young girl Sooz is likely to eventually love Schmendrick and take care of him when Molly herself is gone. The situation is similar in that Molly shows great generosity of heart by doing this, and in that Schmendrick would be very dangerous if he turned to evil -- he's potentially one of the most powerful wizards ever.

I don't think a female character is any more justified in holding a male character prisoner until he loves her than the other way around, but I think we are more likely to notice the male character being deprived of agency and the female character's behavior as wrong rather than romantic.

True ... and more true in the time that the fairy tales crystallized into their present forms, 2-3 centuries ago.




===

(*) And "Bluebeard" is a cautionary tale, not intended as a role-model for husbands!

(**) I based it on a structure in Sev's Stormfront stories, but in the Stormfront stories it had probably been used, as a lot of Ponies were insanely obsessed with sex in that universe.

I think it should be mentioned that the FlutterCord relationship can (and if you look at it right canonically has) fit the Beauty & the Beast dynamic just by swapping the roles.

The [egotistically certain of his] Beauty Discord is coerced by threat of rainbow in the face to associate with the Beast [-loving] Fluttershy, with kindness and acts of trust (the no element promise for one) friendship grows. Could love follow? Might Discord free Fluttershy from the curse of her extreme shyness? Could this be "A tale as old as time?"

I dunno I'm more of a TwiCord shipper, but I can see it happen.

THANK YOU.

It's because Fluttershy's actions and affections come towards him from her own free will that in part make their friendship so beautiful to me. It is out of her own will power and no one forcing her to do so. All those fics, and how ridiculously popular some are, just really bothers me because Flutters is forced into a situation where she doesn't really have the freedom to act on her own without something being imposed on her to some degree. Out of all the ponies, the one that I least want to see in such a situation is freaking Fluttershy. Part of her whole deal is being allowed to come out of her shell and do things how she genuinely wants to and/or feels like.

Also, I entirely agree on Discord's perspective of his appearance. The fact that he loves and is pretty much proud of being an oddball is part of what makes him such a fun and interesting character. It also bothers me when they make him feel shameful of his looks.

You put my thoughts into words exactly. Fluttercord stories with those storylines always got on my nerves for some reason that I couldn't quite put my finger on, and what you wrote is pretty much what I feel about them. There's a couple prominent fics that come to mind, but I'm not gonna name them :P

It's unfortunate that Stockholm syndrome is so romanticized. I love The Phantom of the Opera, but that is not a healthy relationship at all, by any means. And even though it's a good story, it doesn't fit Fluttershy and Discord's dynamic whatsoever.

Fluttershy isn't so pliant that she would put up with abuse like that, even if it were from someone she cared about deeply. Early on in the show, she's seen standing up for her friends when they're being bullied, but didn't really defend herself. For example, we've seen her run away and cry at things like Gilda's yelling (to be honest, that was probably a justified reaction anyway; nobody likes being yelled at). But I think that being Discord's friend has made her more willing to stand up for herself as time has progressed. Character development, yo.

Thank you for saying this.

I feel like the only person on earth who doesn't like Bride of Discord and similar stories. No offense to anyone that does, they just don't work for me for the above stated reasons etc.

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Also, I entirely agree on Discord's perspective of his appearance. The fact that he loves and is pretty much proud of being an oddball is part of what makes him such a fun and interesting character. It also bothers me when they make him feel shameful of his looks.

Very much ditto.

I thought this was a really interesting take. It's notable that the canon/semi-canon Fluttercordian moments don't work this way. When they do, I feel intensely uncomfortable.

Just a couple of thoughts:

1)

Notice how "force his presence" comes very close to the phrase "force himself", a euphemism for rape. No, neither the Beast nor the Phantom ever rape their would-be loves, but the stories have an undercurrent of erotic horror precisely because what does happen would, in real life, very often be a precursor to rape.

Being kept prisoner/ reforming the abusive asshole with her love fits Fifty Shades of Grey to a T, which is why I hate it so very much. It practically begins with his kidnapping her and putting her into his bed.

2) I think Sombra has more potential to be a Gothic princeling than Discord. I said "potential" because we don't get much backstory in the cartoon, but the comics have offered some potential there.

In the Beauty and the Beast original, and most variants, the Beast then becomes a handsome prince or otherwise has his curse broken, and the girl ends up loving him.

What fascinates me about the Reflections Arc is that it works in reverse. Mirrorverse Sombra starts as a good, kind, handsome prince, wins the love of the fair lady, and then, in a moment of self-sacrifice for the good of two worlds, allows himself to become the Beast, thus losing her. This means that unlike the classic bad boy/Gothic hero, he doesn't need to be redeemed. He's already fundamentally good. He has no history of abusing her or treating her badly at all. What he needs is to be cured from evil magic, which would in turn make him fit for the love of the fair lady and would also demonstrably be a return to his real self.

3.

in the Phantom of the Opera version, the girl's kindness tames the Phantom's jealous possessiveness, and he stays his hand from killing her lover and releases her from the marriage he would have forced on her.

To be fair to the poor ol' Phantom, in the original, he's a monster. Like, really a MONSTER-monster. He's never a viable rival for Raoul, and I like him best that way.

This calls for a picture by ghost-peacock:

derpicdn.net/img/view/2014/6/15/653687__safe_princess+celestia_clothes_traditional+art_discord_dress_bipedal_king+sombra_sitting_floppy+ears.jpeg

Source.

Would also add that Fluttershy knows what it's like to feel awkward and like an outsider. She probably also likes Discord's confidence. She clearly enjoys his company by Twilight's Kingdom.

From Discord's POV: "hey! A beautiful, nice, smart girl likes being around me! That rarely/never happens!" As you say, he wouldn't think this because he thinks he's ugly, he would think this because he knows ponies don't like him for being himself. I think that's far more tragic in a way; the idea that you are happy with yourself but you make everyone miserable in the process.

I actually do think Discord is crushing on Fluttershy canonically in the series. I doubt it will ever be made blatant in any way because it's a kid's series and it really isn't the focal point of the show, but I find the idea that a guy who really likes his friend (whether romantically or through a really strong friendship bond) because she likes him for who he is really touching and far more powerful than "I'm ugly but a pretty girl can see through that."

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Interestingly I could see the Phantom dynamic playing out in a Twicord, if you replace "music" with "magic". But Twilight would make a much more ambitious and active "Christine", where her goal is to learn everything she possibly can about magic and Discord is the secretive, hidden entity teaching her forbidden magics that tap her full potential. Also, Discord wouldn't wear a mask, because what would be the point? It's his body that's weird-looking to ponies. So it would be much more of a seduction than a stalking, Discord offering Twilight the opportunity to learn powerful magic that Celestia can't teach her and Twilight pushing aside her doubts (and common sense) to accept the "Phantom"'s tutelage.

And now I have a sudden mental image of a Dislestia where the Beauty is the monster who imprisons the Beast to be her companion -- basically Celestia as a stuck-up royal who thinks she can have anything she wants just because she wants it, who forces Discord to live in the palace with her to entertain her and be her companion, where "breaking the curse" is basically teaching her how to be a decent friend and decent sister to Luna. (Be ironic if it was set in canon, so something happens to turn Discord into what he later becomes, because that would mean inverting their positions from the start of the story.)

2937974 I'll admit, I DO enjoy BOD and Phantom Opera Discord, but from a lot of contemplation, I do realize Discord I OOC...a lot. POD is really just a completely different place in my mind, so that one doesn't bother me. But BOD really does have Discord OOC, and Fluttershy a bit too. Sometimes I feel kinda bad that I like stories that make Discord something he's not, because I love how he doesn't care what others think of him and finds himself beaut-i-ful. I wouldn't want him to be obsessed with his appearance (unless it's how gorgeous he is) on the show. I like him the way he is.
But I comfort myself by saying I don't write him tha way. At least, not anymore. Might have a little when I started out, but I know better now.
But like I said...I'm horrible when it comes to ships and enjoy them anyway.

2938092 I also think that since Discord does things with Fluttershy that he seems to ONLY do with her (letter exchanging, tea parties, photo shoots), that he makes Fluttershy feel special, significant. Not to say that her friends don't do this for her as well, pony and animal--because they do--but I feel like Discord made her his 'number one', so to speak. And since I have my own headcanons where Fluttershy doesn't really have close family, this means a lot to her. So they both get something incredibly important out of it. Does that make sense?

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Both of them really lack any family, one of the things a realised after i seen this picture is that both of them are kind of alone. If we don't count the animals that live with Fluttershy then we only have the mane5+ Spike who are now friends with both Fluttershy and Discord (even if they lean toward Fluttershy)

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It does make sense. I write Fluttershy as someone who has no family--either her parents are deceased or they refuse to speak to her/have a strained relationship with her because she chose to live on the ground. I do like the idea of them being family for one another.

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I agree -- he makes her feel needed. Like, her friends need her for the fate of Equestria and all that, but they have plenty of other friends. They don't need her as a friend (at least in her mind). Discord needs her. She's his first friend and his best friend and the only pony he really, truly trusts and the only one he can count on to stand up for him. And Fluttershy wants to feel needed and special.

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I have a line planned in something, I think maybe The King Who Would Be Man, where Discord says that Fluttershy is the bravest pony he knows, because no other pony he knows has to overcome so much fear just to live her daily life. Going out her door in the morning to go buy carrots is an adventure Fluttershy must gird her loins for. Because she's frightened of so many things that most ponies find normal, and yet she overcomes those fears and does the things that she's afraid of anyway, she's far braver than a pony who fears only one thing and won't go anywhere near it. Certainly, given Rainbow Dash's fear of admitting to anything she thinks will make her look less "cool" -- like reading books, being afraid, or showing strong emotions of affection -- RD is more of a coward than Fluttershy, because Dash will do almost anything to avoid the few things that genuinely terrify her, whereas Fluttershy faces things that terrify her every single day.

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I read Fluttershy as a "remittance mare" -- her family is rich, aristocratic, and (at least until very recently) consider(ed) her an embarrassment, because not only does she dislike flight but is (superficially) cowardly. Note that Fluttershy is beautiful, polite, refined and obviously well-educated -- in short, upper-class. And she never actually seems to be short of money.

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I think along similar lines with regards to Discord's thoughts regarding Fluttershy. He thinks she's braver than Rainbow Dash for the reasons you state above, and more generous than Rarity because she actually willingly gave him her friendship (in my fics Fluttershy constantly compares herself to Dash, Rarity and Twilight as they seem to be the most confident of her friends). Fluttershy's friendship towards him was genuine, and she's pretty much the Best Thing Since Sliced Chaos to him as a result-- and she can feel that radiating off him in his interactions with her.


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That also works. I also like the fact that even if she came from an upper class family she's still kind and doesn't think she's above anybody else, not even draconeequi that are a little rough around the edges.

You raised several interesting points here.

I definitely agree with you on Discord's self-image. I liked Bride of Discord (BoD) but even when I read it the first time the parts where he seemed to regard himself as ugly had me going "Wait a minute. This is the same guy who said, and I quote 'Welcome to your lucky day, Rarity. You found the one thing in Equestria that could rival my face for sheer beauty.' Yeah, he definitely finds his appearance repulsive."

And as much as I liked BoD there were several moments in it where the relationship between Fluttershy and Discord just felt a bit off to me, but I couldn't really figure out why. Now I think it was that Stockholm Syndrome aspect you mentioned.

Still to be fair, the idea behind "The Draconequus with the Dragon Tattoo" (tDwtDT) likely never would have seen the light of day if I hadn't read BoD so one must give credit where credit is due.

as long as Fluttershy is Discord's prisoner she thinks he's an asshole

*snickers* Not quite the language I would have used, but accurate. It's always been a pet peeve of mine when the guy is written as an unappealing jerk and the girl is still attracted to him when realistically she should want to put as much space between them as possible.

Your points on the difference between Fluttershy and Discord's relationship and the conventional Beauty and the Beast one are good as well. Though, just to play devil's advocate on the whole casting Fluttershy and Discord as Beauty and the Beast situation (having done something similar with tDwtDT), part of what can make that whole concept an interesting challenge, at least to me as a writer, is casting the characters in roles they don't necessarily fit to a tee, (IE Fluttershy as Blomkvist and Discord as Salander in tDwtDT) and then seeing how closely you can follow the original plot while still trying to keep the characters in character.

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Seriously, do this. That sounds like a fantastic story.

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