• Member Since 13th Oct, 2013
  • offline last seen 12 hours ago

Jordan179


I'm a long time science fiction and animation fan who stumbled into My Little Pony fandom and got caught -- I guess I'm a Brony Forever now.

E

This story is a sequel to Dragonshyness


September 9th-10th, YOH 1500 - same time as S1E08 "Look Before You Sleep" -- almost three months after Luna's Return

When Spike is summoned to Canterlot, he expects an assignment from Princess Celestia. Instead, he finds himself meeting with the Moon Princess to learn to synchronize his magic flame with her own field so that he can send and receive scrolls from her as well. This is no problem, but then he finds himself reclining on an old-style North-Realm couch having a long conversation with Princess Luna asking him all about his adventures with Twilight Sparkle and being fed a bowl full of gems. Will Spike get a stomach ache?

Sometimes, it's very tough to be a young magic Dragon.

Chapters (4)
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Comments ( 75 )

Hmm--Luna talking to Spike. Not something we've seen much of, or am I mistaken? It certainly interweaves interestingly with the other things you have. It'll be interesting to see how they interact.

4793579 there are, however a few stories with Spike and Luna as lovers. My favorite is Spike's Sexual Revolution.

I like it so far, but I found a typo

well, drake, tp be precise

other than that good job

Well, this should be interesting. Two strangers, one out of time, one out of place. I look forward to seeing what comes of their interactions.

Also, seems like Pinkie's still recharging. Poor girl. She'll bounce back eventually, but this has to be the opposite of fun for her.

4793579

In the series itself they barely interact. I looked it up for the story -- he faints at the YOH 1500 Summer Sun Celebration, then he's at the party with her. The one thing I checked was to make sure that his reactions in "Luna Eclipsed" weren't over the top. They weren't -- he was scared by Luna's little political pageant, but then even Twilight was at first.

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Thank you for noticing that. Fixed it. :twilightsmile:

4793655

Given that this connects to the rest of my fanon, nope, Luna is not mooning after Spike. She's nervous because she fears to lose the respect of somepony else.

Not that she has anything against Spike, either. She's naturally-inclined to be friendly toward Dragons.

4794250 I know that mate :pinkiehappy: I was simply informing scoots that there are some good fics heavy with Spike/Luna, not necessarily romantically. Good start to the story by the way :twilightsmile:

New story!! This should be interesting. Pinkie's still recovering, it seems. It reminds me of something from Nightmares are Tragic. Nightmare said something about parties or emotions or something like that helping recharge her powers. Why isn't it helping now?

I find the idea about ponies high-5-ing funny because ponies have only 1 digit on the end of each leg.

Nicely set up so far! I have to know how much Luna will let slip once she becomes comfortable talking with Spike, how much Spike will realize on his own, and how much (if anything) he'll report back to Dusk. Er, Twilight.

The latest Friends Forever comic between Luna and Pinkie Pie I think did a good job of showing some of Luna's character.

So . . . Luna is just USING Spike to squeeze info out of the reincarnation of HER previous incarnation's love of her life?

You think she could ask Celly for details.

4804888

Spike's actually closer to Twilight than is Celestia. And it's not like Luna's going to hurt Spike.

To be precise, though, it's Celestia who set this up.

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Just saying Spike is just a means to an end, and has no intention of getting to know HIM. After all, he's just an imitation of his ancestor right?

4805066

That's a little unfair to Luna -- she actually likes Dragons, and is predisposed to kindness toward any Dragon who is a friend of Twilight's. Remember, though, she's just a few months back from a millennium of exile at this point -- she's at her most awkward and unsure.

4805066

To be more precise, the reason Luna's playing around with bribing secrets from Spike is because at this point she doesn't feel self-confident enough to just talk to Twilight. Which would astonish Twilight if she knew it -- she doesn't consider herself particularly socially formidable. But then she doesn't know any of the backstory.

ahh interesting, i imagine Luna and spike to bond well considering that spike too has feeling for a girl who doesn't know about it (at least he think so)

Celestia bids Spike both welcome and greetings. I'm not sure if that was intentional, but it feels somewhat redundant.

In any case, a very expository chapter. A lot of information bandied about with little actually happening. I understand that it's probably from Spike's perspective, but the diction does nothing to indicate that.

Still, there's a lot to like: the tales of Spike's past exploits, his first impression of a recovering Luna, the event explicitly described as a "pastry orgy," and so forth. I found the description of gemstone flavors especially interesting; it tells me nothing about the sensation, but Spike wouldn't necessarily associate minerals with flavors we're familiar with. Trying to describe the taste of silicates would be like trying to describe a color to a blind person.

In all, a bit too information-dense for my palette, but that just meant there was plenty to sink my teeth into. Looking forward to more.

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I understand that it's probably from Spike's perspective, but the diction does nothing to indicate that.

Yeah. I'm not totally happy with how I did Spike's internal monologue. Spike is sometimes not the easiest character for me to handle because he has a big split between intelligence on the one hand, and wisdom on the other. And this is Spike at almost his youngest in the series.

See, Spike is actually very, very intelligent. This is sometimes missed for two reasons: (1) he's constantly shown in dialogue with Twilight, who is even smarter, and (2) intelligence and wisdom aren't the same thing, and Spike -- especially early-series Spike, is childish. He has lots of knowledge but very little experience. So here he is having a tea party with beings he knows enough to realize just how awesome they really must be -- indeed, he, has sufficient lore (thanks to being Twilight's assistant) to grasp things about their implicit shared past that almost no Ponies would; but some of his reactions are sometimes immature. Which is okay, because both the Sisters actually like children.

Spike is also a very hierarchical kind of being compared to the Ponies. His genes tell him that anyone as superior to him as is Celestia might just rip him apart on the spot if she thinks he's disrespectful. At the same time, he knows that Celestia is fundamentally gentle and kind and would do no such thing without incredible provocation. He's known her all his life, and both reveres and trusts her. So he's got mixed impulses there.

Spike's external dialogue can vary in level and it does in the series too. He's a child, but he's a child raised to the Canterlot gentry by an extreme-outlier scholar, he's very good at making friends at all social levels, and his knowledge rivals that of any University scholar. He wants to sound serious, and he knows a lot of the formulae of sounding seriousness, and parrots them with all the skill one would expect of a genius-level archosaur. At the same time, he's still a child -- and to complicate things, a child who is starting to experience romantic stirrings -- and to a biologically-different species, at that! He thinks like a Pony, but it's a social emulation running on Dragon wetware.

Writing the first part of this chapter it occurred to me a younger Spike must have gotten all over the Palace, and seen many things nopony wanted him to see. Fortunately for all concerned, a younger Spike would have understood it only imperfectly. The main reason he didn't realize for what the seraglio had been intended is that he doesn't even think of Celestia as a potentially-sexual being.

I had to think hard about what Luna would look like, and how she would act, at that stage in her recovery. In All the Way Back we see her from the inside, and Luna can be socially-oblivious and even awkward in "normal" situations (as opposed to leading armies or fighting monsters).

I had fun writing the pastry orgy. :pinkiehappy:

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At this point in their friendship, Rarity is aware that Spike is smitten with her, but she doesn't yet take it (or Spike) very seriously. Compared with the Rarity and Spike of DIvine Jealousy and the Voice of Reason (set by my chronology a tad over four years later) they are both immature (and a little shallow) -- they both grow up a lot in the interim. Rarity still thinks of Spike mostly as someone to either manipulate or be entertained by, and she does not yet grasp how smart, tough and determined he is -- she just sees him as "cute." (This is before he fights the Diamond Dogs, leaps off the Crystal Palace literally into Sombra's teeth, learns Rarity's own darkest secrets and loves her anyway, and with his love saves her from Nightmare). Spike, for his part, is mostly still just infatuated with Rarity's appearance -- he is just starting to grasp her high intelligence and strong character. I would not term what is between them at the point of this story as being truly "love" -- it's still just an unrequited crush.

For Luna's part, she still doesn't know Twilight very well. She still confuses her with Dusk Skyshine.

Yes! Another knighting acknowledgement!!

Though they were semi-formally knighted just before they entered the maze on the Season 2 premiere.

5378280

This is true. This story takes place at the same time as Season One's "Look Before You Sleep," which is by my chronology about a year earlier.

But yes -- the Mane Six have status. This isn't discussed as much in the show because the modern 21st century West is more outwardly egalitarian than is Equestria.

5377555

Am fixing the typo you mentioned, plus a couple others. Thanks for pointing it out.

Spike appropriated it as his own private relaxation chambers, and would have been rather shocked had he known that it was officially the Royal Seraglio -- though he would have required an explanation of the function of such a building, before he would have known enough to realize why he should have been shocked.

Oh, poor innocent Spike! And I feel some surprise that Celestia would have required a specific building for a seraglio, unless it was meant more as 'a home for the Royal Consort' and not just where she kept her harem of studs. Not that I could see her doing the latter at all. Though some stallions would probably be happy to volunteer.

Good reference to the proskynesis there. You don't often see use of Byzantine court etiquette outside of Harry Turtledove in fiction. Makes me wonder if she ever had autokrator or more appropriately autokrateira (Lit. 'One Who Rules By Himself/Herself') for a title, possibly during the centuries of Luna's exile. Though I doubt that even back in Unicornian times that the ponies went to the full extent of the insanely complex array of titles that filled the court of the Eastern Empire.

The 'pastry orgy' was fun. I like the half-hints to the 'vanished North Kingdom' and the use of Celestia and Luna's full names.

The characterization of Spike is very good here. From his youthful explorations of the palace, sometimes with the Guard and staff, or Twilight, or even Celestia in hot pursuit, to his reactions to Celestia, it works so very well. I more than half wish I could see how you would have had him reacting in Wolf in Pony's Clothing, it would have been amazing. His relationship with Celestia is especially interesting. On one hand, she's his mother-figure and she helped raise him, and he loves and even reveres her. On the other, he's a predator, and he can instinctively get just how dangerous Celly could be if she had to. He probably fears her just a little, which is almost certainly how 'wild' dragon hatchlings feel about their parents.

Also good work with comparing the 'feel' you get from Celly and Luna, with the former being a source of warmth and trust, and Luna having an aura of chill fear to her even when she'd rather not. Luna just feels like she ought to be scary at the best of times. And those who know her know that she has a ruthless streak -- one only exercised in the service of Equestria and its ponies (and others), but still, it's there. Sometimes Luna needs to be scary, and I think Celestia feels some relief that she can afford to be more forgiving in her dealings with non-ponies in particular again.

And I feel some surprise that Celestia would have required a specific building for a seraglio, unless it was meant more as 'a home for the Royal Consort' and not just where she kept her harem of studs. Not that I could see her doing the latter at all. Though some stallions would probably be happy to volunteer.

As I mention, Celestia had it built at a time when she was becoming very desperately lonely, and she never put the building to its designed purpose. I believe that Celestia came close to insanity, more than once, during the millennium without Luna. Celestia is normally not promiscuous, and she knows (through the Pool of Truth) just how destructive (both to Equestria and herself) she could be if she got that way -- she's SEEN "Molestias" among her own alternates.

Celestia has to be careful about personality drift for two reasons: (1) she is immortal and so any uncorrected personality imbalance could warp her badly in time, and (2) she is so politically-powerful that there would be no shortage of sycophants willing to help convince her that her bad ideas were very good ideas. She needs fellow-immortals who care about her, remember who she is really, and are unafraid to tell her when she's about to do something dumb.

This is one reason she's so glad to get Luna back -- and to see Cadance and Twilight Ascend. She likes having peers.

Good reference to the proskynesis there. You don't often see use of Byzantine court etiquette outside of Harry Turtledove in fiction. Makes me wonder if she ever had autokrator or more appropriately autokrateira (Lit. 'One Who Rules By Himself/Herself') for a title, possibly during the centuries of Luna's exile. Though I doubt that even back in Unicornian times that the ponies went to the full extent of the insanely complex array of titles that filled the court of the Eastern Empire.

.

The interesting thing is that I've seen Spike do this sort of ceremonial bow to her in canon. The assumption I'm making is that this is an inheritance from Late Crystal-Imperial court etiquette: the Three Tribes received much of their higher civilization from the Crystal Empire; the Crystal City was friendly first to Paradise Estate Ponies and then to the exiled Sisters during most of the thousand years of DIscord's rule; and the Crystal Empire was an ally of Equestria afterward during most of the 480 years they co-existed until the Empire returned

I enjoyed thinking about ancient and now lost civilizations from the angle of their sweet baked goods. :pinkiesmile: Pinkie Pie would have found this a very natural viewpoint.

I'm really glad you liked my characterization of Spike. I'm honored that you think I would have done a good Spike for Wolf in Pony's Clothing.

His relationship with Celestia is especially interesting. On one hand, she's his mother-figure and she helped raise him, and he loves and even reveres her. On the other, he's a predator, and he can instinctively get just how dangerous Celly could be if she had to. He probably fears her just a little, which is almost certainly how 'wild' dragon hatchlings feel about their parents.

Yes! Exactly!

Also good work with comparing the 'feel' you get from Celly and Luna, with the former being a source of warmth and trust, and Luna having an aura of chill fear to her even when she'd rather not. Luna just feels like she ought to be scary at the best of times. And those who know her know that she has a ruthless streak -- one only exercised in the service of Equestria and its ponies (and others), but still, it's there.

Indeed. And she's not even trying to be scary in this scene. She's trying to be friendly.

5382284 Love your explanations here, this kind of fantasy seemingly grounded in researched reality is right up my street, even if it (as an example) only shows in small flavour sentences like those about the thickness of the castle walls and what kind of projectiles they'd probably withstand. Of course, the whole hierarchy discussion also falls into this category.
I could listen to that game of titles you struck up for pages. Please discuss a coat of arms for Dame Twilight next :twilightsmile:
And to you goes the honour of creating the first Luna characterization that brought me slight chills upon introduction.
Great stuff, keep it up. Have a fav and a follow.

Odd. A little heavy on the food, history and etiquette porn if you ask me. Reminds me of ASOIF. Not bad, but not my kind of thing at least not in MLP. There is doing your research and then there is forcing it down the reader's throat.

Don't get me wrong though, this is well-written and it was worth reading for me.

Also, with the risk of provoking your ire: This amount of headcanon, especially when I notice how this ties into heavy AU backstory in other works, should almost have an alternate universe tag. But that might just be me.

Still, credit where it's due. This is a solid piece of work. Just not my cup of tea.

Happy writing.

Must be before Luna's return form and Tiberius.

6019163

Yes. It takes place at the same time as S1E08 "Look Before You Sleep." Luna's only been back from the Moon about three months so far.

5946683

Lots more headcanon in the latest chapter! :twilightsmile:

the mountains of Gorgia in southeastern Equestria

(Tears shirt off, letting out a shrill Rebel Yell) YEEEEEEEEAAAAA-HAAAAAAAAA!!!! ALL THE WAY FROM THE APPLEACHIANS, YANKS!!!!

Bah. Of course that wasn't incest. It was physics. Beautiful, magical physics, but physics all the same. Fascinating to witness, even in such a limited and filtered form.

In any case, I love how Spike's perspective shows his already budding genius. A dragon raised by Twilight Sparkle can be expected to be incredibly well-versed in certain areas by dint of either interest or constant exposure, and here we see examples of both. And that bit with the sticky celestial machinery does a great job of showing the kludge job the diarchs have had to make due with after the Cataclysm. You done goofed, girls. In a past life, but you done goofed all the same. At least they'll be able to fix it in a few decades...

Standing this close to her, Spike couild

Should be "could"...

Spike really felt through his spikes:

Feels like that should be a ";"...of course, I could be wrong...

circumference of the omplex pattern

Complex, maybe?

paper-mache

Correct form would actually be "papier-mache"

full of milk and surrouned by love

(Wiggles eyebrows) You know you wanna give it...the "d"...

Ashe did, he slipped

Of course, once you do, you should give it some space...

Art thou well and whole.

Forgot the end-quote and put a period instead of a question mark...

"I'd be honored, YourHighness."

Slap some space in there, and that's all I can see right now...

Excellent job...as usual, Jordan.

6369952

Thanks for pointing those out ... fixed them all. :pinkiehappy:

6369977
>_I
Bah. Think nothing of it. Just hope I didn't offend.

Found one even Knight Templar missed:

never been able ot simply feel a soul

Lovely chapter.

6371023

I'm glad you liked it. I think I did the glimpse into the memories of Luna, and of Gravity, fairly well.

... stormy seas under a cloudy gray sky, cold winds whipping through the sails of the longship as her brave crew took up bows and spears and blades, ready to descend on the unsuspecting Chaos Reavers. "Monasdrommir!" the crew all shouted, and the battle was on ...

Now this is something I hope we hear more about sometime. I think a whole story about Luna back in her 'warrior princess' days would come off like MLP:FiM meets Robert E. Howard or Leigh Brackett. Especially the latter; Certainly Luna and Celly would know if there are any beings on a primitive Venus with its swamps and jungles, or old decadent Mars where golden and crystal ziggurats rise alongside canals that were ancient before ponykind could speak.

By the way, the usual way I've seen something like "unharm-ed" written is with a grave accent over the e: unharmèd.

6371161

I've actually alluded to this in a few places, for instance Fischfootur gives Luna one of Monasdrommir's relics and she's very touched by the gift in All The Way Back. "Monasdrommir" was actually a nom du guerre she took leading sea raiders against the Chaos Reavers who menaced the East Coastal cities of the Crystal Empire, it means "Moondreamer" and is a direct reference to her incarnation in the Age of Wonders. But yeah, Luna liked being Monasdrommir. :twilightsmile:

6371505

I like Spike. He isn't a butt monkey in Divine Jealousy and the Voice of Reason (in which I confirm that Rarity loves him back, but is taking it very slowly because of his youth), or Audience Reaction either (in that last one he's a late adolescent / young adult at around age 58 and he's married to Rarity, the Alicorn of Generosity -- and is her Number One Assistant in running her international corporation, Rarity Enterprises).

Yes, he's originally meant as a stand-in for the (mostly smarter-than-average) young men who are fans of the show (the group later named "Bronies") but what's wrong with that? What's wrong with maleness? You can see Spike getting smarter and stronger and more capable across the run of the show, too.

T'is

'Tis: apostrophe replaces the letter I, not a space. (Yes, capitalize T for 'tis the first letter of the sentence.)

papier-mache

papier-mâché, really.

Fusion, Gravity

Makes me think of A Soot-Covered World, which I recommend.

Always enjoy looks into Dragons and Concepts from your verse. While what you give use here does not explicitly explain anything, it gives us insight on the relationship between Ageless creatures like Dragons and Concepts. It shows that not only is Spike able to witness Cthulu esqe scale deities without any altered perceptions but is able to survive it and understand to an extent its scale and age in the universe. It also hints that Pony and Dragon magic are fundamentally different with Dragons have a somewhat stronger natural affinity and better natural perception. Have I got something here or am I reading more into this than intended?

7233738

Yeah, I'm working through a huge backlog of incomplete stories. This one's actually not that far from completion. Next chapter is the climax, then one more for the denouement. It was never meant to be longer than short novella length, anyway.

6998308

Oh yes, even though Spike is very young, and hence far from his eventual full power, my version of him is a fairly impressive entity. And he has a tough mind -- he can face things that would drive a lot of Ponies insane. Twilight is understandably protective of him and doesn't realize just how tough Spike is in truth, though her studies and experience lead her to suspect that he's hardly helpless.

This is actually one reason Spike falls more deeply for Rarity over time rather than getting over the crush -- as he gets to know her better, he realizes that she's a lot like him in being tougher than she seems. And part of the reason Rarity likes him back is that she knows he's strong. She's protective toward him too, but she rarely underestimates him once she comes to know him.

Luna likes Dragons, as she displays toward Fischfootur in All The Way Back. And she very clearly likes Spike in this story, though she does have a very obvious (to the reader) ulterior motive for her meeting with him.

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