The Political Rights Debate Begins
The Nineteenth Century: The Saga of Equestria
(Text of the Grifoni-Equestrian Treaty of 1838)
Article I: The Principality of Equestria shall extend a Loan of Sixteen and One Half Thousand Dollars to the Kingdom of Griffonia.
Article II: The aforementioned Loan shall have an Interest rate of no more than One Percent, but may be less, at the discretion of the Equestrian Royal Council. The Council may change the Interest rate at any time, as long as it does not go above the aforementioned One Percent.
Article III: The Principality of Equestria and the Kingdom of Griffonia extend full military access to each of each other’s militaries.
Signed by King Odrynn, Ruler of the Kingdom of Griffonia, on January 21, 1838
Signed by Princess Luna, on Behalf of the Equestrian Royal Council, on January 21, 1838 (pending ratification)
January 30, 1838
Canterlot, Equestria
“...and you see this as a deliberate attack on your tribe,” said Luna.
“No, Princess! I don’t think the Princesses are deliberately attacking the Earth Pony Tribe. Rather, I see an honest attempt to make Equestria strong. Unfortunately, that had the effect of polarizing the jobs in this nation. Nowadays, unicorns control all the jobs that matter, while us earth ponies are left to do all the hard labor,” said Silver Scroll, an earth pony intellectual, and writer of the pamphlet Earth Pony Voice.
“And if we accept this to be true, then what has happened to the Pegasus Tribe?” asked Cadance.
“The pegasi have been shifted into and dominate the military. Makes sense, considering the cultural and historical influence within the military.”
“This has been most interesting, Silver Scroll. The Council will certainly take your grievances into account. Perhaps we can do something about it.”
June 28, 1838
London, England
Celestia, dressed in her full royal regalia, concealed a yawn. The coronation of Victoria as the next queen of Great Britain was hardly an exciting process, to say nothing of the fact that Celestia never really had much enthusiasm to sit through such processes.
What snapped her attention back to the scene, though, was the noise of muffled gasps. Several lesser nobles had been giving homage to the new Queen, but apparently one had encountered some difficulty. That is, he had fallen down the steps and rolled all the way down.
Celestia leaned forward slightly, wondering if she should make sure he was alright. Before she came to a decision, though, the man - she would later learn he was Lord Rolle - slowly got up. She saw that he was very old.
As the man started back up the stairs, Celestia again wondered if she should do something to help him. The need was taken from her, however.
Queen Victoria, after saying something that Celestia missed, rose from her throne, descended a few steps and met the Lord partway.
The effect was immediate. Several mutterings that had begun in reaction to the Lord falling were swept away by a strong applause. Celestia joined them, clapping her front hooves together.
That will definitely create a positive image with her people.
The applause died down, and with it, Celestia’s interest in the proceedings. She settled back into her serene image, pretending to be paying devout attention, while, instead, her thoughts were a million miles away…
The same day
The same place
“I am glad that you were able to make it,” said Victoria.
Celestia looked the young human queen in the eye. “As a fellow ruler, I welcome you to our ‘order,’ for want of a better term. Being a monarch of a nation is both the best and worst thing that can happen to you.”
“So I hear...you are not a constitutional ruler?”
“No, no constitution or voting for Equestria. Rather, the four Princesses rule together, and we check each other. I understand that you have a Parliament.”
“Yes. English democracy goes all the way back to 1215, and the signing of the Magna Carta, when English barons forced the king to accept certain reforms. The power of this proto-Parliament grew slowly over time, until the Parliamentarians won the English Civil War in the 1600’s. Since then, the Parliament has come to be recognized as the supreme power in the British Empire, trumping the king/queen.
The human and pony spoke for a over an hour, speaking of things that actually had little overall importance; royal small talk, in essence.
June 30, 1838
Ponyville, Equestria
“Hey girls!” called Twilight, raising a hoof to her friends.
“Twilight! It’s been ages, honey,” said Rarity.
“It has,” agreed Rainbow Dash.
All the other ponies nodded.
“Where’s Pinkie?” asked Twilight, noticing the pink pony’s absence.
“Working! Ponyville’s seen something of a population boom, and the Cakes need her help.”
Twilight nodded, a little disappointed that she would not to be able to her friend. “It sure is good to be back in Ponyville, at any rate,” she said, as they walked along the streets of the small town, towards the castle that had been put there by the Tree of Harmony. “How have things been around here?”
“Alright,” said Applejack, glaring at Twilight. “I have a bone to pick with you, Twilight, though. Why, in the name all things in Equestria, did you feel the need to abolish the townships?”
Surprised at being put on the spot like that, Twilight got defensive. “W-well, we wanted to be able to get our westernization reforms done on time. Have you attended the Grand Equestria Pony Summit? Trying to make all those ponies do the same thing is like attempting to herd foals!”
Applejack hesitated for a few moments, thinking about what Twilight had said. She then grunted and said “Fair enough,” a small smile appearing on her lips.
Letting the matter drop, Twilight smiled as well. “It’s been...well, years! I’m sorry I was out of touch for so long, but I have been living in Canterlot, helping the Princesses with the westernization process. They even put me in charge of the Royal Ministry of the Sciences! But I finally managed to worm my way free. What’s been happening with you girls?”
“My business is booming!” said Rarity excitedly. “The military has ordered so many uniforms, the normal manufactures have gotten absolutely swamped, and they contracted over a thousand uniforms out to me! I’ve made soooo much money, I’ve managed to hire a staff and actually open a whole chain of boutiques in Canterlot and beyond.”
“That’s wonderful!” said Twilight.
“I’ve been working overtime,” said Applejack. “The military has put in more orders for apples then I can even count! Business is booming here, as well. The Apple Family has racked in thousands and thousands of bits! We plan on investing more into our business, and start buying up more land to produce more apples, and we may even move into other food products. There’s even some talk of sending a few relatives abroad and starting up business beyond Equestria.”
“Growing the Apple Family into the Apple Empire?” asked Twilight, teasingly. “Good for you guys.”
“U-um, the military kind of...recruited me,” said Fluttershy softly. “They wanted me to join the...Ponyville Engineer Corps, as a...medic.”
“A battle medic? Seems kind of strange for you, Fluttershy,” frowned Twilight.
“Well...they said that you and Equestria needed me.”
I need to talk to them about their recruiting methods, Twilight mentally noted. “Well, that’s...good news!”
“The military head-hunted me, as well!” exclaimed Rainbow Dash. “Apparently, I’m so awesome that they actually promoted me up a few ranks. You’re speaking to Third Lieutenant Rainbow Dash, of the Ponyville Air Cavalry. I’m responsible for overseeing weather operations that the Air Cavalry undertakes.”*
“That’s awesome, Rainbow!”
“Indeed, much like me.”
So the conversation continued, with the five friends trading stories about all that happened over the time.
After a while, the young-ish Princess noticed something out of the corner of her eye. Turning her head to the right, she saw a newspaper with a large, bold headline:
REGIONAL MAGISTRATE : HAVING MARRIAGE ISSUES?
Twilight frowned and went over to the newspaper stand. Picking up a copy of the paper, she thought about the magistrate.
Gold Star is a jealous pony. She would never allow something like this be printed. The magistrate has control over what is printed in papers. How did it get printed?
“Oh, you’ve found the Foal Free Press. It’s gotten excellent recently,” said Rarity.
“But...how?” muttered Twilight. “We put in a censored press policy. The magistrate would have censored it.”
“I heard they found some legal loophole...something about it being a student paper.”
Of course. A exemption was written into the law, granting student papers much more lenient treatment in certain circumstances. They must of managed to find a clever lawyer to help “expand” the definition of those exemptions.
Without another word, Twilight paid for a copy of the paper and made a mental note to speak to the Royal Council.
* Note: Rainbow Dash is responsible for weather operations within that herd only, not the entire Equestrian Army.
Ah, it's good to see this getting an update. How I missed it.
Oh yeah, that money is to help out what Griffonia had to pay the US, was it. Well, if it's any consolation for them, the US may not be that keen in meddling so much again. Specially for land. Ironically thanks to the slave-holding south. For now at least.
Ah, the long awaited coronation scene. Hehehe, I could almost pity Celestia there. Could almost.
This ain't the GGG of her own country where she can shamelessly admit enjoying whenever disaster strikes it after all.At least she seems to start striking a friendship of sorts with Vicky there. I do wonder and worry though, for the possible stuff that could sour Equestrian-British relations.And speaking of friendships, its good to see the rest of Twilight's friends again. Ironic, isn't it. Princess of Friendship and yet spends pretty much years without seeing her closest friends. At least they'll still be around for a long time. Remembering that chapter where they talked about pony life expectansies, I can see them at least living long enough to see the 20th Century... well, if things go well for them. But most likely not to the game's end date of 1936, though. Maybe.
Expanding the apple business huh. Well, when it comes to my country, since it's quite likely that would be among the first places they'd be scouting for that, they can't go wrong with the northern part of the Altiplano Central. It's a good spot for apple farming. In fact, that's where most of our apple growing happens. I remember this one time I was on vacation in Chihuahua, and we passed over so many apple orchards... my brother and I were pretty much laughing, joking that we've found Mexico's Sweet Apple Acres.
And speaking of my country, I can already see it now how in a few months time the ponies will be hearing about Pastries... though sadly not in the way they'd be expecting.
The cake is a lie!I missed this so much
Now that things are starting to get into shape I wonder how will relationships go when the British starts to be British and Celestia has to choose between their actual allies and Equestria's potential new allies.
Well, if Appeljack wants to expand the Apple family business I do recommend Venezuela, the soil is so fertile, and the weather so calm, that you can plant here any type of food product and it will be top notch (we make the best cocoa in the world), and Soublette may have already done the Inmigration law that allow foreigners to live in Venezuela.
We have here (back from the XV century) a colony made by germans known as the Colonia Tovar and it's still a big place for tourism, it helps a lot that Venezuelan tends to integrate immigrants into their society (we, in other words, venezolanize immigrants) so I think the Apple family may create soon their own orchard over here. Ok, I hope they do.
Well, I suppose I was right about Fluttershy being a medical soldier (or was it too obvious?) and Rarity has been very happy with dresses.
Ahhh, the new politicians are starting to use the newspapers to voice their opinion, this is going to get good.
7118317
I wish well for México in getting those apples, but still, you got serious competition right here. And I hope that those pastries goes with a different result.
Although it could be fixed if the Principality of Equestria makes a commission to investigate both countries to determine which would be better on an economic, political and diplomatic point of view.
P.S: I know I said I would talk about the Monagato after you posted the next chapter Mint20, but it's kinda late here and I have classes tomorrow, I will do so later, I promise, glad to see you back :D
P.S.S.: Since the Monagato starts in 1847 and is still a few years before that (we're in 1838 in this story), do you prefer to know the Monagato or do you want to know more about Venezuela during this period (1839 - 1847)?
Ah, yes, it is good to see this did die. I truly missed it so much, I can only wait for what an Equestrian-Anglo alliance will do for the world. If things stay the course of our timeline for the time being. If not, there is always Prussia, or maybe even Mother Russia.
7118601
I suppose. Scouting both is not a bad idea (alongside other LA countries), though personally, I would think they'd choose Mexico first.
We are their neighbors, not to mention that our prime apple growing areas, mainly the state of Chihuahua, also borders Equestria. Of course, the orchads would be more to the center area of the state, near the capital, but overall it's still quite close. So we have the distance advantage.
At first, I was considering the fact that apples are template-to-cold enviroment fruits. But then again, once you factor Earth Pony magic... like come on, the show has had them grow apples in the desert (Appleloosa), so if this particular detail is kept, then anything goes when it comes to location climate. I would think there are cold areas in Venezuela, but overall in these times weren't they more into the tropical and sub-tropical agriculture? I could see them being a bit skeptical at first about apples growing in the country. And then the ponies proving them otherwise.
Regarding the Pastry War... well, overall I don't see much change. Remmontel will still go to the King, Bustamante will refuse to pay, France blockades Veracruz, Santa Anna tries and fails to retake the port, British mediation favors France at the end... but, I do see one thing that could change. When the blockade happened, people took to smuggle stuff from Texas, who put a stop to it fearing being blockaded as well. Here, however... we have Equestria as well. Someone is bound to think that Mexico could try with Equestria next. Not necessarily smuggling, could be just regular old trade. For Equestria it would be a bit risky since it would certainly not going to make the French happy. And possibly the US since they were supporting slightly the French during the endeavor. And the British may try to discourage them from trying. On the other hand... what can they actually do to stop Equestria if they do it anyway? Either way, it wouldn't be a light desicion to make if to help out Mexico on this particualr situation or not.
Good to see that Twilight was given the chance to catch up with most of her friends (minus Pinkie). I mean, Twilight IS the Princess of Friendship after all. Hasn't really been able to live up to her namesake very much has she?
I do hope that the whole business involving the mismatched demographics regarding what areas the different pony races occupy gets a little more balanced out. If not, that could potentially lead to problems in the future.
Its displeasing to see that the press is exploiting a loophole just to publish what they want to publish. But that's what happens when you limit the press's ability to publish things in the paper. I hope that this problem is fixed without too much trouble.
Nice update, and I look forward to the next chapter!
~ Super-Brony12
yay more
7119171
Oh yeah, I forgot the distance as a factor... yeah, México will go first.
Yeah, Venezuela has cold-template areas, the Andino states (today Táchira, Mérida and Trujillo), you can even find ice in those areas. If you need cold-template areas to grow apples, then the Andino states are the place to go by.
para-viajar.com/mapas/images/mapa-de-venezuela.jpg
And you're also right: Páez decided (in 1831) that Venezuela would focus on producing and exporting coffee for it's high price in the world market (and since Páez owned 5 farms, he got insultingly rich), but Venezuela wouldn't focus on anything else (if I'm not wrong, there were other foods that were produced, but not in an economical standpoint), add that the country was importing more instead of exporting (Importation>Exportation) and you can see an economic bubble on the rise. This economic bubble would start to burst in 1840, which would be used as part of Leocadio's propaganda against the conservative party between 1840 - 1846 by stating that they didn't knew how to handle the economy and that Páez was damaging Venezuela.
The other reason why Páez would focus on coffee was because most of the caudillos that ruled in Venezuela lived in Los Llanos (today Apure, Barinas, Portuguesa, Cojedes, Aragua, Guárico, Miranda, Anzoátegui, Monagas and part of Bolívar) and they would often focus on what could be growth in their lands to get money (since most caudillos owned at least one farm).
I hope this doesn't sound too confusing.
Well, about the pastry wars, Celestia is becoming a friend of the Queen of England, perhaps she could convince her of not supporting the french or Equestria may try to pay Mexico's debt so the war could stop and in exchange, Mexico would allow the Apple family to start growing apples in a part of the territory (while living as immigrants). That way Equestria ends up in a good relationship with Mexico while they don't lose as much as they would have originally lost. How does that sounds?
7120761
Well, I still think the ponies may not necessarily require template-cold areas for apple farming, as Appleloosa showed. Still, that would now be in the human governments' decision if they approve planting apples in warmer areas, being aware that only the ponies can do that for the time being.
Well, not sure on the money thing. Equestria already gave money to Griffonia. And in those times, 600000 Mexican Pesos were worth much more than 16500 American Dollars. Despite the state of our economy since... ever, the old Mexican Peso (also previously known as the Spanish Dollar) itself was a very important currency in the 19th Century. It saw official use in lots of places worldwide, even the US. Heck, the value of the American Dollar was established using the SpanishDollar/MexicanPeso as base. A clean 1:1 exchange ratio in 1792 when the USD was created. Which would still more or less hold by the 1830's.
In the end though, Mexico would still have to pay, as I don't see the British changing their end decision of having to pay, even with Equestria weighting an opinion on the matter. What could happen, though, is that perhaps they can convince them that Remmontel's demand is too high, and thus reduce it to a more sensible amount. Wether or not Equestria would offer to loan this money as well would be another matter entirely, so not sure on that one.
I suppose the Apples being allowed to settle as part of the payment of having helped out would sound fair. I wouldn't rule out some people being wary at first. After all, last time they were approached with the idea of foreigners settling down and working the land... they ended up loosing said land. On the other hand, I don't think it would amount to much since they'd also know that the Equestrians aren't like the Americans. I don't expect things to be without a hitch, considering culture clashing and having to obey Mexican law would be a thing. I can think of perhaps a few things that could become issues or not. But overall... no, I don't think in the end Mexico would have to worry about the Apples pulling a Sam Houston on them.
7121039
Wow, the Mexican peso was really valuable, Venezuela would have to wait until the 1950's to get to that point, congrats.
But oh well, it's kinda sad that said events won't be changed as much as it would be desired, but at least we can hope that the Equestrians may help a bit here.
7121089
Well, it does help that the coins were still made with pure gold and silver until the early 20th century. Gold content in coins was reduced in 1905, and silver in coins saw a similar decline starting in 1918. Not to mention, for all intents and purposes, it was simply the Spanish currency under a different name. And the Spanish did had centuries using their coin across the world. Even Spanish Reales were still in production here until about 1897. Considering things, the Equestrian currency could actually enjoy a similar situation since they're also pure gold. Although, I don't remember right now if in this story something happened to their material composition. But if it wasn't changed, then yeah, they can. Just perhaps not as widespread unlike the Mexican currency which was backed by the spread of the Spanish one.
Yeah, I wasn't expecting much change in the first place for the Pastry War. Still, I do think that something will change, and that is still better than nothing. The big changes will most likely won't happen until Manifest Destiny, after all.
And hopefully with Refute Manifest Destiny.7121151
7121089
The ponies adopted paper currency in some of the higher denominations.
I love all the discussions on this story, guys. It's really helpful for ideas and the such. (Where did you think I got the idea for Fluttershy to join the Engineer Corps as a medic?) Keep them coming!
7121275
Thank you very much, I didn't expected this conversations to be so useful. And yeah, I forgot about the paper money, does Equestria have a National Bank (designed to keep Equestria without debts)? it would be a key feature to handle the money and it should be an autonomous institute for the well being of Equestria, if I'm not wrong, Great Britain got the idea first, so there's a chance for the queen to mention it to Celestia.
The only question left would be: which race would handle the Bank? Personally I would prefer the earth ponies because that would give them a big power in Equestria's economy o they wouldn't be just a labor force.
7121151
Does that mean that Mexico's economy was (at least) stable, compared to other nations, during the 19th century?, because that's something that didn't happened in Venezuela (I'll go over it later).
7119678
Considering that the Principality of Equestria i living under an authoritarian rule so far, it's up to Luna, Twilight and Cadence to fix it. I really hope Luna helps the Earth ponies before it gets too bad.
P.S.: I already researched when the British invaded the Falkland Islands, it was in 1833, I'll research more about it later.
7121275
Oh, I see. Hmm, yeah, with paper currency its likely it won't happen. Though if they still have their gold Bits, I could see those still capable of making the rounds across the world.
Oh really? Personally, I don't see Fluttershy joining the army, even as a medic... but well, I'm not against the idea either, and the way it was done in this chapter was sensible, at least.
7121433
In a sense, yeah. Most of our economic problems were more about the foreign debt, since usually the inner problems were solved with loans. In fact, the only time you can say we were in an actual crisis, was only until after the end of the Mexican Miracle (which lasted from the end of WWII to the 1970's), in which the situation promptly plummeted. Before that though... yeah, relatively stable. Of course, with hiccups here and there like the Pastry War, or the Revolution, but never getting as bad as things got in the 1980's.
Hm, the Malvinas/Falklands? Oh yeah, I had forgotten that has already happened. Admitedly, I don't know much of the 1833 situation. A highlight I know is about an Irish admiral that fought for Argentina. Since, you know, it was against the British. And admitedly, I know of it because of this song:
Still, I would consider it important to look it up, since Irish oppression is bound to be brought up sooner or later. I wouldn't be surprised if Celestia finds out already while in Europe. I might as well do that. Considering how much I spoke of the Pastry War, I think I can look up for out-of-the-country stuff now for the time being, heh.
7121508
Ahhh, foreign debt... the one thing that ALL of Latin America shared during the XIX Century. Brazil had it with Great Britain after its battle against the Portuguese for independence, Argentina had it, Venezuela had it (and big), Colombia had it, Ecuador had it, etc.
For now, I'll try to focus mainly on Venezuela, Colombia and Ecuador, but I will try to see what I can find over time for all the nations.
7121433
Me too. A civil war in Equestria would be really bad.
In the last chapter, Twilight was travelling with Celestia onboard the ship that was taking them to London. We saw them together in Hawaii. In this chapter, Celestia was in London on June 28, 1838, and Twilight was in Ponyville on June 30, 1838. So why the change of plans, and how did Twilight get back to Equestria from Hawaii? I'm presuming Twilight wasn't able to teleport from London to Ponyville.
With regards to the Earth Pony complaints, I'm not sure restoration of the former political system is the best way to give Earth Ponies good jobs. Perhaps they should consider expanding the rock farming industry, and exporting crystals and gems? (Assuming that is what rock farmers produce.) I'm also surprised that there has been no talk of human countries hiring pegasi to manage their weather.
If Earth ponies could increase low cost gem production through rock farming, it would provide an opportunity for ponies like Rarity to get into the high profit human clothing market. Pony jewelry manufacture might change the history of countries like South Africa. And if you want to make big historical changes, I wonder if Earth Pony rock farmers like Maud might discover how to create silicon based semiconductors much sooner than they were produced in our world. I'm a bit disappointed that Twilight doesn't seem to have made it to London, because I wondered if she might meet (or at least hear about) Charles Babbage, and his theoretical work on computers.
7123230
Oops, massive oversight...thanks for catching it!
Have a
7123230
It's not only about jobs, it's also about having a political voice in the kingdom, the Unicorns have the congress, the Pegasi have the military, the earth pony now only have hard labor. They don't have a political voice whatsoever and the Unicorn (if they wanted) could just make it worse for them, they need something that could give them a political voice and townships doesn't necesarily means the return to the old system, it could mean that they could handle a town or district (in the future) so the princesses has it easier with the handling of the kingdom.
Do you really think that it would be so easy for the rest of the world to hire other species they barely know? Celestia made Equestria an isolated kingdom, neither the ponies nor the other nations knows each other well enough to ask for weather jobs and not all the nations are going to ask for it. Venezuela has a very nice weather, you can grow anything because you can find cold-template areas (Los Andes), deserts, plains to grow other foods like Coffee, Cocoa, vegetables, etc. rivers for fishing, etc. And most of Latin America follows the same principal.
Only the earth ponies would have a chance in other countries for their farming abilities (once they get well known, the nations would be asking for their help to increase production instead of asking help to the pegasi).
If the British (or any nation whatsoever) figures out that the ponies can produce gems, then Equestria would be invaded constantly.
Ok, this is what I've gathered about the Falkland Islands (here in Latin America we call them Malvinas) so far:
Before the independence wars, the European powers were always fighting over it, but (shortening the story) Spain won in the end.
When Argentina became independent in May 25th of 1810 (Great Britain said nothing about the Falkland Islands), they decided to incorporate the islands into Argentina, but in 1831 the governor of the Falkland Islands decided to prohibit Seal hunting, which lead to the arrest of 3 US ships (during the presidency of Andrew Jackson), they released 2 ships but the US claimed for piracy (Argentina was stealing the ship) so they decided to invade the islands, they pulverize any type of military and civility in the Falkland islands and left them incapable of defending themselves against a british invasion (who decided to take the islands when they saw the US invading them) in 1833.
From there on out, Argentina would be constantly protesting against the British for their sovereignty over the Islands.
7122005
Certainly. Though I would think that, at least for our foreign debt, Equestria's prescence opens the possiblity of not turning out as bad as it did in OTL.
7123656
You know, that would be an interesting route. That for those few Earth Ponies leaving to other countries, find themselves thinking that they fare better there than in Equestria. Due to their skills, considered standard in Equestria, now find themselves quite valuable for the humans.
Speaking about the gems, not just that, but it's also a disaster waiting to happen, if you consider what it would do to the world economy if the value of precious stones devaluates due to the surpplus Equestria would be introducing to the market.
7123674
Oh, I had no idea the US had a role in there. Even if it looks like it was indirect. I'm gonna guess that also made them not go Monroe Doctrine on the Malvinas thing, due to the conflict over the ship.
7123741
Here's a question: Why didn't the USA go all Monroe Doctrine on the Pastry War?
7124037
Because when everything was said and done, the US never actually invoked the Monroe Doctrine much. The cases where it could've been invoked were a lot, but the US didn't.
As for the Pastry War. Well, the US had good relations with France at the time. And most likely the US wasn't eager to help Mexico after the whole Texas thing. In fact, for the Pastry War, the US did the opposite of the Monroe Doctrine and actually helped the French in the naval blocakde, with the ship Woodbury.
At the end of the day, the Monroe Doctrine still helped Latin America in a way. Since despite the US not acting on it much, the existence of the Doctrine itself acted as a deterrent. The Second French Intervention in Mexico in the 1860's was the most Latin America endured from Europe in the 19th Century, and the only time it was about an actual take-over of a country as a whole. Still, by the 20th Century it became clear that the US had simply displaced Europe when it came to meddling in the Americas.
7124080
Yeah, I read that...I figured as much, but wanted to make sure.
Thanks!
7124080
7124141
Speaking of the 1860's invasion of México:
When that invasion happened, Latin America decided to activate a congress in Lima, Perú in 1864 (This is the second one, the first one happened in 1847) to discuss about it, it was held by the following members from the following countries:
Domingo F. Sarmiento: representative from Argentina
Juan de la Cruz Benavente: Plenipotentiary from Bolivia
Justo Arosemena: Plenipotentiary from Colombia
Manuel Montt Torres: Plenipotentiary from Chile
Vicente Piedrahíta: Plenipotentiary from Ecuador
Pedro Alcántara Herrán: Plenipotentiary from El Salvador
José Gregorio Paz Soldán: Plenipotentiary from Perú
Antonio Leocadio Guzmán*: Plenipotentiary from Venezuela
From what I could gather (I could research for a bit more later, but this is in 1864 so IDK if it could still happen), in this meeting the mentioned nations discussed about how they must strengthen their relations and join together against any european attack (Spain was close to attack Perú/Chile as well at the time, but I'll check out later to be sure).
Leocadio also used this congress to ratify the necessity of something like The Great Colombia so the nations could defend themselves against foreign invaders because the US wasn't to be trusted (Latin America was aware of the Monroe Doctrine, but they were also aware that the US only activated it when it was convenient to them, and that most of the time they could be just as bad as Europe). Leocadio Guzmán was a great defender of the cause to reunify the Great Colombia.
After the congress, the members got a token of commemoration of the event and a picture with all of them doing a napoleonic pose.
hispanoamericaunida.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/medalla-congreso-lima-1864.jpg
fotografianacional.gob.ec/web/uploads/imagenes/sd/1428988326.jpg
Leocadio is the one in the up right corner of the picture
This makes me wonder: Does any of you think Equestria may get invited to this congress? I do think it may happen, but more as a listener (like in the Congress of Panamá of 1826) than having an actual voice, but that may depend on the state of Equestria's relationship with México.
Also about the Monroe Doctrine, as I already said, the US only activated it when it was convenient to them. In 1895, when they decided to help with the Esequibo dispute against Great Britain, they only activated because the ambassador of the US in Venezuela managed to convince the US government to do it AND because The President at the time (Cleveland) used the doctrine as an excuse to increase the US influence in the world (and expand themselves over the world).
As a result, even though the US failed to help Venezuela in the dispute, they did managed to get international respect for pressing the british into an arbitration, so in the end they still got benefitted. I wouldn't be surprised if Equestria gets in troubles later for this way of using the Monroe Doctrine.
*Yes, the Leocadio I mentioned being the creator of the Liberal party in Venezuela and that got exiled in 1847 by José Tadeo Monagas was the one that went to that Congress in Perú, a lot of stuff happened between 1847 and 1864 and I will tell you as soon as I can, so you can check how Equestria could/should managed an open relationship status with Venezuela. For now I will say that a good moment would be with Carlos Soublette since he allowed freedom of expression and was very good with diplomatic relationships but I also warn you that after Soublette (1843 - 1847) comes the Monagato (1847 - 1858) and that if you send someone to Venezuela during the Monagato, you better double check who would be.
Thanks for reading, have a nice day.
7124380
Well, it depends if the Congress still happens. If it was made mainly because of the French Intervention, chances are that if in this story Mexico avoids that bullet, then the Congress won't be made. If it still happens, regardless if the French Intervention happens or not, then... well, I suppose Equestria can be invited as listener. Though, depending on what Equestria has done up to this point, what are the chances they may not be also a bit wary of Equestria? Perhaps, perhaps not. I'd say this is something a bit far down the road to discuss now. We'd have to see what happens during the 1840's and 1850's first. Specially the 1840's, since the outcome of the Mexican-American War is vital if France feels the need to launch its intervention or not.
7124408
Exactly, that's why I still haven't mentioned much about what happens with Monagas yet, we've still haven't gotten into the 1840's, so it's hard to tell what could happen and what could not.
But I will also mention that there were Spanish ships in the coasts of Perú during that time, so they could still do the congress because of it, but Equestria's invitation may still depend on what they do during the 1840's and 1850's, so it's still very hard to tell.
But how did the Mexican-American war happened? if it's vital then it would be useful to understand the events that lead to that, does the pastry wars have something to do with it?
7123656
Timereaper, you seem to think that the Equestrian Advisory Assembly is entirely composed of Unicorns. I don't think it is, since the tribal membership of the assembly is never mentioned in the same way party membership is. Granted, we do hear that the first chairpony of the assembly is a unicorn, but that doesn't mean they all are.
Regarding the idea of earth ponies manufacturing gemstones for export, I agree that they might have to ration the supply, the way DeBeers once had to ration the supply of diamonds from South Africa, to keep profits up and the price from crashing. But if they can manage the supply properly, there are some significant profits to be made from rock farming, and channeling those profits to earth ponies should help prevent the earth ponies from becoming an economic underclass.
If I understand the earth pony complaint, it's that a lot of new good paying jobs have opened up since the westernization process began, but that they either require unicorn magic or (if they are in the military) pegasus flight. That 's why they always stress that the decline of earth pony status is just a mistake the Princesses made by trying to defend Equestria through westernization. In other words, the Unicorns and Pegasus have gained economic advantages over Earth Ponies. If I've misinterpreted this, I'd appreciate a clarification from Mint20.
Regarding the idea of humans employing Pegasus weather ponies, it's true some regions will need it more than others. But I think hurricane prevention and controlled rainfall will be very important once humans find out it's possible. Another application that might be important to Britain might be smog dispersal. The idea of having clear skies over London especially might be appealing to the British government as the industrial revolution makes the air increasingly unbreathable.
7124436
Not much the Pastry War. It has little to do in affecting later events.
Well, the consecuences of the Mexican-American War were more an indirect effect. Anyway...
The war happened because when Texas finally joined the Union in 1845, they were still claiming the Rio Bravo/Grande as their border. So, the US decided that since Texas was now part of them, their claims were now the US's claims. The disputed land was now between the US and Mexico, and both countries had soldiers patrolling the contested zone. Now, the conflict started when Mexican soldiers fired on American ones, and the US declared that since the land was claimed by them, it meant Mexicans killed Americans on American soil. So war it was.
Now, it is said that the American soldiers were trying to bait the Mexicans into shooting at them. Something that would become quite controversial at the time within the US. Abraham Lincoln even dared them to prove that we had indeed shot first. But in any case, war was declared. We got beaten. Lost half our country.
The US aquiring land this way caused quite a stir in Europe. It probably helped that they took more land than what they were claiming at the beginning. This is one of the things that inspired France to interfere in the Americas to put a stop to American expansionism. So they took advantage when the American Civil War started to invade Mexico, using the foreign debt as an excuse. It is said their plan was that once they had secured Mexico, they'd use it as a platform to help the CSA, since their ports were blocked by the Union navy. But then, Ignacio Zaragoza beat them at Puebla, delaying the invasion for a year, during which stuff like Gettysburg and the Emmancipation Proclamation happened, ensuring Lincoln that Europe would be discouraged from interfering. France still returned to turn us into a buffer, though.
So basically, the Second French Intervention in Mexico depends if the US can keep it's expansionist path. If Manifest Destiny fails to deliver, then France would not gain the motivation. They may still desire to restablish a colonial empire in the Americas, but now Mexico can avoid being their top name on the list since the US no longer is as much of a threat to their interests.
7124460
Fairly correct. I will get into this more later, but the basic gist of the debate is that Earth Ponies have been regulated to the bottom of the social and economic latter. The reasons for this are...complex, but one of the most important is that Earth Pony magic is well-suited for farming, and nopony ever got rich farming. Couple this with the abolition of local government, and segments of the Earth Pony population are feeling disenfranchised (granted, they were never technically enfranchised in the beginning, but whatever). It's less that new jobs require Unicorn magic, and more that the Princesses felt that the Earth Ponies were more effective, for want of a better term, elsewhere.
I never referenced the tribal composition of the Assembly, but I always envisioned it about half unicorn, a quarter pegasi, and a quarter earth pony. Of course, as the Assembly is kind of powerless, it's moot...for now...
Outside employment for the ponies...interesting. Now if only the humans weren't specist...
7124471
7124471
The way my history teacher explained it was that President Polk sent General Taylor down to the disputed area to mock the Mexicans, like that schoolyard game. "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!"
Enough to aggravate anyone...
7124460
Since mint20 already answered the composition of the advisory then ok (although the earth ponies still have little to no political voice), but I still think the townships would give them a bigger voice because they would have some control over the jurisdiction of the cities.
And I still think it's a bad idea to enter into the diamond market, since Equestria can produce gems, then it will cause a devaluation of the gems over time. Sadly, I do think they would do it, mainly because they wouldn't be aware of the consequences of influencing the economy (we do because we've studied what has happened in the past, but this story is IN the past, which it means, they aren't aware of what could happen if they start selling gems like crazy). So once one of the princesses decides that selling gems is a good idea:
1.- There will be an economic boom that will start to create a bubble, in a few years (the more they export the faster it will be) the bubble will burst and God have mercy on whoever gets the blame.
2.- Once the world realise that Equestria can produce/grow gems, invasions will start. I think the first ones would be either Russia or the British, and there's a chance that the US would try to help Equestria, if only, because they would like a piece of that diamond cake and if Equestria refuses then the US would invade them. And then we would see the results of Equestria making alliances with nations that are more worried for the sovereignty of their nations (and continent) rather han the amount of money they could get.
The problem with Pegasi controlling the world weather is that it would require a HUGE amount of Pegasi to do it, hurricanes and droughts are always nationwide, there aren't enough pegasi to do it in general. In the case of London to clear out the smog then the pegasi would basically have to choose between being in the military (well paid job and very important) or being a cleaner (which would be detrimental to their health, low wages and they would have to handle speciesism at it's strongest), the answer is quite clear. Granted, some pegasi would accept the job thinking that is a good idea and by the time they realise their mistake, it would be too late.
7124471
Fascinating, it's quite interesting how a border dispute can lead to war *looks at the Essequibo* that's a bummer, but Equestria changes a few things already:
1.- Its presence may be pressure enough so the US may not try to bait the mexicans into the war (if by this time the relationships between Mexico and Equestria are big enough, then the US may not try to enter at war with Mexico just out of fear of bringing Equestria into the mix).
2.- If the war happens, then Equestria may be able to act before France gets its idea.
3.- If France still wants to start their colonial empire in America, then it may try with either the other nations of central america or Panama (just guessing for now) or they may try to expand the colony they have in the French Guiana, but the last one would mean fighting either the Dutch or Brazil and that's almost impossible. Brazil's a big power in Latin America, big enough to be intimidating just by itself.
7123507
The oversight could be considering that Celestia and Twilight were in Hawaii in January (according to the previous chapter) and in June 28th Celestia is in England while Twilight is in Equestria, so I'm not too sure where is the oversight, maybe it could be that Twilight didn't announced when she separated from Celestia to begin with.
The Speciest problem would fall in however the other nations looks at Equestria, most of them would look at them as horses that can speak. Only being in contact with them would help to eliminate the problem, something that will only be fixed once Equestria stops being an isolated kingdom.
Also, while Brazil still has slavery. Brazil is right now an Empire with a monarch in charge (and I think it stays like that for decades), and I think it would be benefitial for the princesses to meet up with the other monarch in America. I propose Twilight Sparkle since she already has interest in Mexico and this would help her to be more interested in Latin America.
Either way, if they decide to go to Brazil, that means that they would have to pass over Chile, where Andrés Bello lives, a Venezuelan that ever since 1829, has been living in Chile, and he is already a well known writer: he wrote in England (1826) a poem called Las Silvas Americanas, which documented the emerging culture of the new world while the second of the poems he wrote was called Silva a la agricultura de la zona tórrida. This is the most famous of the two, and is a poetic description of South America's tropical lands in a style reminiscent of Virgil, a poet of great influence for Bello. The poems were to become a part of Bello's expanded epic America however it was never finished. Since 1832 he was granted chilean nationality and has been living there until his death in 1865.
One of Bello's most famous accomplishments was his promulgation of the 1852 Civil Code of Chile, passed by Chilean Congress in 1855. It served primarily as a governing code similar to Europe's Napoleonic Code. He worked on this Code for twenty years, and it was later adopted by both Colombia and Ecuador.
I think Celestia may be able to find the poems, give them to Twilight and maybe later down the line, Twilight could meet him when traveling to Brazil (and hopefully later Venezuela?), because by the 1860's Bello became one of the most important figures of International right.
And I'm sorry, but I think that this figure is one of those that should be met along John Snow, Queen Victoria, and any other bright figure at the time that I don't remember right now.
7126223
The oversight was that at the first writing of the scene, I had Twilight at Hawai'i. However, I was having a hard time coming up with lines for her, so I removed her from the scene, but apparently didn't remove that one reference to her.
Excellent info. I'll see what I can do with it...
New chapter in a few days! The Pastry War is a thing that happens...
7126117
Well, I'd hope there are those knowledgable enough of economics among the ponies to figure how bad of an idea it would be about letting the rest of the world know of Equestria's gems. The most likely way for news to spread out is for those few humans living in Equestria finding out and sending word to the outside. I'd guess so far the ambassadors haven't, despite the high chances of them knowing already, or they have not spoken about it. But those Americans living near the border...
Also, with pegasi and the weather... I can also see that being quite dangerous, even more so than the gems thing. Since weather is all linked together globally, disrupting the weather patterns with a very sudden change is recipe for disaster. It's not a problem in Equestria itself since the pegasi have most likely artifically manipulated the weather for centures and even millenia at this point, so the planet has long incorporated their meddling to the global network. But for the rest of the world? Yeeeeeeah, there's danger there.
Now regarding the Mexican-American War:
1. Depends on what the US will think of what to do with Equestria. They're already messing with Griffonia, they will do it with Mexico and technically have done it already with Texas's rebellion. With Equestria it's only a matter of time as well. I don't think they'll give up on aquiring Mexican lands (and eventually Equestrian lands as well), as that will anger the south. At least, not before the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854, which redefined Free and Slave states to popular choice, rather than their location north or south of a line. And I doubt the Act will speed up before a war happening, since the issue with Texas's border has to be resolved. If anything, Mexico and Equestria having good relations between themselves can mean the US may think it can take down two birds with one stone.
2. On the contrary, Equestria taking the US down a peg is a bit of a double-edge sword. Since then the Monroe Doctrine looses its deterrent value. It could mean European meddling in the Americas can step up its game unless the US can show it changes nothing on that front.
3. Most likely on Central America or in the Española. I could see them wanting to reconquer Haiti.
Alright, as the saying goes, lo prometido es deuda (A promise is a debt), I'm going to talk about the monagato, but for now I'll only cover the first part (1847 - 1851) so you can have covered the 1840's. After that I'll go check other countries to see what happened there at the same time.
Now, before talking about the presidency of José Tadeo Monagas, I must first give you a bit of a backstory, so you can understand better what kind of person he was:
He came from the noble Monagas family and with his brother, José Gregorio Monagas, they both went through the east of Venezuela as looters and robbers, when the independence wars started, they sided with the independents as an excuse to keep looting, but now it was in the name of "the liberation of Venezuela".
Tadeo was a good general, winning important battles in the east of Venezuela he, along his brother, got the title "The Oriental Spear" by Simón Bolívar himself.
By 1830 he was sided with the idea of being a part of the Great Colombia, but with a federal system (so he could rule the east of Venezuela without a problem) and tried to make a war with Páez to stop him, but Páez convinced him to stop. In 1834, after losing the elections against Dr. José María Vargas, he tried another revolution (called, "The Revolution of the reforms") to attain power, but Páez once again convinced him to drop the fight.
And now, here we are, in 1847, with him finally being a president. Get ready, this will be a wild ride.
venelogia.com/uploads/2012/SDC10339.jpg
José Tadeo Monagas
October 28th of 1874 - November 18th of 1868
Presidency: Marc 1st of 1847 - February 5th of 1851
Now Páez originally thought that Monagas would be easy to control, after all Páez already convinced him to drop the guns twice. But Páez was wrong, at the beginning Monagas faked submission, he made it look like he was going to listen to Páez so he wouldn't suspect a thing and then bring Páez down swiftly (the first sign of his rebellion would be the fact that he should have started in February and instead, he decided to wait until March to be a president).
The first thing he decided to do was to change the sentence on Leocadio Guzmán from a death sentence to being exiled permanently from Venezuela, this angered the conservatives, but since Leocadio was still out they let it slide.
Over the course of the months, Tadeo Monagas would be, albeit slowly, taking out conservatives from his ministry and bring liberals to his side and then send a letter to Páez to justify the move. Eventually Páez started to notice that said letters showed the true colors of Monagas; as Páez read one of the letters which said at the end:
Páez simply responded that he "was ready o defend the country from anyone who dared to damage it".
In January of 1848, the Congress (controlled by Conservatives) was trying to find a way to trial Monagas for doing moves that he wasn't authorized to do: using the armed forces without the consent of the Government Counsel and make administration outside of the capital (he wasn't ruling in Caracas, where he was supposed to).
In January 23rd of 1848, the low chamber of the National Congress decided to make a secret meeting to go to Puerto Cabello (away from the capitol and Monagas) to then approve the trial against Monagas, the Congress also took one general and 200 guards to defend themselves against Monagas, this displeased the president and caused suspicion in the country.
In January 24th of 1848, the congress decided that Monagas didn't had any power and that only his secretaries could do anything. Outside of the building rumors were going that the secretary of state was arrested, the public tried to enter while the congress was afraid of the people entering. One of the guards outside accidentally shoots the civilians and they responded. The Congress decided to run and in the process 3 conservative deputies are shot down.
Monagas reaches the plaza shortly thereafter and escorts the congress back to the chambers. Many of the conservatives refused to go back (some even escaped to Curazao) and when the Quorum was asked, now the majority was liberal, and they decided to give back the power to Monagas and also give him special powers to contain any future revolt that could happen in the country.
After that Monagas went back to his chair and said: "With the constitution, you can do anything".
Páez responded and tried to fight him with the help of Soublette, but Páez wasn't popular anymore and Monagas beated him down.
Páez escaped while Soublette decided to exile himself to Colombia (where he would stay until 1858, when the Monagato would finally be over). At the next year, Páez would try again, but the result woud be even more disastrous and before being exiled once again, Monagas decided to humiliate him in the most cruel ways possible (like escorting him in the same street that a few years ago cheered him, now it was covered with people paid to shout "death to Páez" among other things) and then exile him (here is when Páez decides to go exploring before setting in New York until he was called back after the end of the Monagato).
With Páez out, Monagas decided to bring back Leocadio Guzmán (and name him Vice President) so the liberals would love him even more. After that, Monagas took the leadership of the Liberal Party (making Leocadio his personal puppet) and that way he would control Venezuela until 1858.
After the Assault on the Congress, Monagas shutted down the press (only what he allowed would be publicated) and he would allow anything to happen. If a criminal was a friend of Monagas ten you would have to pray for nothing to happen to you, because Monagas never administered justice to any of his corrupt friends and he also used the congress to do whatever he wanted.
In the elections of 1850, instead of allowing the country to choose their next president, Monagas decide to give the presidency to his Brother, José Gregorio Monagas, to continue their nepotist, despotic and corrupt practices.
I know this may sound something out of a fictional novel, but I swear, it's all real.
And with that, you have covered Venezuela in 1840's, I hope you find this either useful or a good read, once this story is close to the next decade, I'll talk about the rest of the Monagato. Now, I'll check out what was going on in Colombia at the time and where did Páez went to.
Thanks for reading, have a nice day.
Hey, look at what I found
Basically, the site tells that in April 15th of 1856, the US citizen Jack Olivier walked in the city of Panama with some friends and he decided to buy a Piece of a watermelon at the price of 5 cents. But instead of paying, Jack decided to insult the merchant which started a street fight that later evolved into a battle between the Panamanians and the US workers of the Panama Train controlled by the US.
The Panamanian troops intervened and fought the US guards for 3 days. The fight left a toll of 18 deaths and 28 wounded.
In September, the US invaded Panama under the excuse of defending the Train and (after winning) they imposed to the panamanians a total amount of 442.000 $ payment + coast territory as a compensation for the troubles. The territorial coast would be later used to create a naval base.
And that was the first chapter that lead to the separation of Panama from Colombia and the creation of the Channel of Panama.
7126265
Well, yeah... it's eventual the discovery of diamonds in Equestria, and then we'll see if Equestria fares better than the Zulu in South Africa.
Hum, I didn't thought that Equestria taking down the US may ease Europe's pretensions of invading America. By 1845 Spain recognized Venezuela as an independent nation, but the other nations took a lot longer before that, without the threat of the US, Spain may be more lenient to try again.
There wasn't a single nation of Europe that could be trustworthy, right?
7128974
We can always trust the Swiss in not being a threat.
On a more serious note, though, perhaps countries that wouldn't have an interest in the Americas if they had the chance to? Those that couldn't do anything about it would be a safe bet, in any case.
On the other hand, perhaps it wouldn't be that big of a concern? Maybe they could try, but the US could still show that they can still act as a deterrent to European meddling? And, there's always the chance that Equestria may simply replace the US in that role. For better or worse, but it's already trekking on a lot of "what if's" and stuff at this point of the story.
7128990
You're right, in all the aforementioned points. For now, I'll stick to the now and the 1840's.
7126255 How old are the Mane Six again? Lifespan?
How long would this story be, because eventually almost all the characters are going to die from old age, even Twilight (Word of God) and Cadance
Glad to see the mane 6 get together at last.
Also, did the Season 5 finale give you any new ideas or inspiration for future stuff? I'm sure if the Equestria in this story were anything (in terms of industrial production and rallying the population) like the one in the 'Crystal War-verse', I think the USA [or any other potential hostile nation] would be wise to avoid a war of attrition for the next 20-40 years. Otherwise, the laws of Logistics and Geography would strongly be in the defenders' favour.