Oh this thread...

1250599
I can't tell if you're trolling or just stupid, but you have some pretty juvenile anti-American opinions. Also, you do know the president doesn't control the country right? Congress declares war. The War Powers Resolution kind of is a big block on the President from doing what he wants with the military.

1250631
'Cause environmentalists make up a substantially large portion of voters, right?

1250643
Gems? I doubt that would be a reason to invade. It would end up just like Spain did in the 1500's. So much gold came around that the price of the shit dropped like crazy. If we suddenly had tons of gems they would be worthless. Gems don't even have that many uses outside of aesthetic purposes.

1250689
What a sheep, lol.

1250723
We have a technologically repressed continent right on our own planet. It's called Africa (and large swathes of Asia). Guess what, none of that happens here. In fact, our military sends a lot of time handing out food, and training soldiers in these nations, as well as handing out money to these guys for humanitarian purposes.

I sincerely hope you take the time to not join the military. People like you are exactly what is wrong with the military today, and you'd only make America worse off for doing so. Be useful some other way, like collecting trash.

1250734
In what way was the war not justified? We had several reasons for going into Iraq.

Not to mention, Congress as a whole may have a low approval rating, but individual congressmen have pretty fucking high approval ratings comparatively.

1250774
What was stated above. Individual congressmen are well liked.

1250811
Isn't that kind of hypocritical?

"People think the only options are Republican or Democrat and they're dumb for it."
"The only options are Libertarian or nothing."

Ignore party, and vote for who you think is best. Do some research into who you're voting for. Look at voting records, speeches, ect.

1250838
If you don't vote, you honestly have no right to complain about the elected officials who run the country. Bitchin' and moanin' and then doing nothing about it is completely idiotic. It's like a fat person complaining about their belly-flap and then refusing to work out or eat less shit.

1250861
Bronies would NOT be any kind of ambassadors. Good God, that is the worst possible thing anybody could do in such a situation. Watching a television show doesn't make you an expert on a nation. I watch history channel from time to time. Does that mean I should be an ambassador? Hell no. Send somebody with actual diplomatic expertise, not some kid with no tact.

1250926
The government never denied the existence of Area 51. It only denied conspiracy nut theories about aliens. Check your facts, please.

1251063
Most media, not just the liberal media, is wrong. The most entertaining or wild opinions are thrown out because they get ratings. Ratings bring in more money, and that's what it's all about.

1251321
Is this a joke? I honestly think your head-canon is clouding reality. We've seen no evidence of unicorns having extreme magical ability besides winged unicorns and Twilight. In fact, from what we've seen, ponies are skittish as hell. If Zecora could frighten an entire town into hiding, and people were scared to death of an overly large bear, how do you think they would handle our war machines? The deafening boom and bright flashes of guns are fucking scary when you've never seen them before, especially when you're on the receiving end. A human-pony war would be like Britain clearing out the Native Americans. Slaughter. Civilians would be useless. They'd be scattered and on the run quickly. Pegasi royal guards? Hell, from what we've seen, they do not fly fast. Machine guns could probably pull them out of the sky incredibly quickly. The only ones who would be able to do shit would be the princesses, and we've seen evidence that even they are not invincible. Besides, you're assuming ponies know what the hell nukes are. We could launch nukes all over Equestria, and they'd be none the fucking wiser until they actually hit.

Their only chance at survival would be cartoon physics.

You greatly under-estimate human ingenuity. If there is one fucking thing humans can do, that is kill. That is it. We wage war.

1251512 The reason I don't vote is because there isn't a single politician that is worth my time.
Also if you vote for the person that causes the problems you have no right to complain because you are the one that gave him the spot and participated in the useless practice that is the american government system.

1251529
No one person causes problems within a government. The government collectively causes problems.

Also, I do. If somebody promises me a tasty sandwich, and I order it, and it sucks, I can freely complain.

1251532 And the problems are caused by the only two parties in the system that actually get voted in.

1251533
You're pretending like each party is made up of the same people. Those in those two groups share very loosely related opinions. Besides, it's not as though parties have not died.

1251539 I was once an idealist too.

1251546
Hardly. I'm a political realist.

It's very apparent you have an incredibly skewed perception of reality by following a pretty standard anti-government opinion. A healthy dose of cynicism is good for a republic, but when you take it beyond cynicism and skepticism and into pessimistic un-truths as you have, it's just silly.

1251562 It doesn't take a genius to see that the way things are are fucked up and thanks to the majority's willful ignorance it'll never change.

1251565
Things are fucked up? The United States still holds more power, militarily, economically, and politically, than any other single nation. I don't know if you mean internationalists/immigrants on a regular basis, but I do. I hear nothing but praise with how much better the United States is than their countries. Standard of living is pretty fuckin' high over here.

We may not currently be at our highest point in history, but the U.S. certainly hasn't dropped off of the map. Saying "things will never change" is equally silly. Things have always changed, and things always will change.

1251586 I'm talking about the fact that there are people who are being tortured with solitary confinement under the guise of treason because they brought attention to the shit the government was doing behind our backs.
Or what about the bullshit privacy breaking laws that the liberal's flagship man Obama is expanding first in acted by Bush conservatives flagship man?

1250599

That has a high chance of happening. I somehow agree with you and Metaknight here.

1251595
Social contract. You give up some your rights so the others are protected. Also, it's very, very unlikely the government is watching me. If they were, what do I care? Unless I'm collaborating with some other people to do something stupid and dangerous, nothing would ever come of it.

And while yes, there is some torture, it's ridiculous to assume the entire government is behind it. People have been imprisoned and punished for torture. Even then, I can't recall any instances where whistle-blowers have been tortured in modern times for "treason." Can you name a few?

1251632

You give up some your rights so the others are protected.

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

U.S. Army Private Bradley Manning

1251638
That is a silly quote for two reasons: one, it's a twist on the quote originally by Benjamin Franklin.

Two, you twist the meaning. That's how all societies work. The only "truly free" society would be complete and total anarchy. All other societies give up freedoms to be protected. We're restricted by laws and taxes, and so is every other citizen of every other country. Those are bars against the freedom of do-whatever-the-hell-you-want anarchy.

1251643 Considering I can't even be sarcastic without being arrested like that kid in Texas, right.

1251645
Except you probably are, as I am.

An unfortunate incident, truly, but honestly, the arrest was well intentioned. It wasn't to be cruel, it was to prevent a possible shooting.

1251650

prevent a possible shooting.

It was obvious from the post he wasn't going to do it.

Plus most psychopaths that want to do something will keep it on the down low.

1251512

Is this a joke? I honestly think your head-canon is clouding reality. We've seen no evidence of unicorns having extreme magical ability besides winged unicorns and Twilight. In fact, from what we've seen, ponies are skittish as hell. If Zecora could frighten an entire town into hiding, and people were scared to death of an overly large bear, how do you think they would handle our war machines? The deafening boom and bright flashes of guns are fucking scary when you've never seen them before, especially when you're on the receiving end. A human-pony war would be like Britain clearing out the Native Americans. Slaughter. Civilians would be useless.

Ummm, dude, you need to pay more attention to what cartoon you're watching.

-Six of those "useless civilians" beat up an army of changelings all by themselves (how they got captured is still a mystery, but...)

-And said Changeling force was defeated by just TWO ponies. These are magical creatures that can change their shape, and it only took two ponies.

-Dragons exist in their world, and these ponies have confronted them.

-Tartarus is a real, physically defined location in their world (else, how could Twilight lead the Cerberus back to its gates?)

-Speaking of which, what's Dash's turtle's name again? Oh yeah, TANK. So she must already know what a tank is. Else, how could she have named him that?

-On that note, those Native Americans you mentioned never built hot-air balloons or locomotives. We've seen both in Equestria, on several occasions, and they aren't the only technology we've seen. The ponies certainly didn't act skittish around the Flim-Flam brothers' cider machine!

This is not "my headcanon" this is all stuff that's actually there, in the show, plain as day, clear as crystal, as undeniable as those smiley faces right next to this comment box.

They'd be scattered and on the run quickly. Pegasi royal guards? Hell, from what we've seen, they do not fly fast. Machine guns could probably pull them out of the sky incredibly quickly.

HAHAHAHAH No. You have to have absolutely no idea how guns work if you think humans somehow have the advantage here. Let's assume your average pegasus is three feet tall, five feet from tail to nose... you're telling me your average soldier can draw a bead on a creature that small when said creature is miles in the air and flying at 100mph (that's being generous--Rainbow Dash has to fly much faster than that to break the sound barrier and cause a Sonic Rainboom)? And on top of that, you're saying they could do it with a type of gun that's used mainly for suppression fire and isn't really known for its accuracy?

(on top of that, nothing less than a sniper rifle can even HIT a target that's more than 500 feet away--and I'm being generous with that number too--because air resistance and gravity naturally limit how far a bullet can fly. Oh, and Sniper Rifles don't work like they do in video games--real sniper rifling is more about math than pointing-and-shooting, and there's no way you'd be able to do the necessary calculations in time to hit even ONE pegasus, nevermind an army of them).

You greatly under-estimate human ingenuity. If there is one fucking thing humans can do, that is kill. That is it. We wage war.

And this is what I was saying. There's so much human-centricism, so much "Yeah, we're the most strongest creature ever!" inherent in this presumption. It's not based on logic, facts, science or any sort of sound reasoning, but just a sort of unjustified pride in your own species.

Oh, and no comments about Discord? Cuz that seems to be a big gaping hole in your theory...

1250599 No, they would not go in guns blazing. Depending on where they landed, other nations might (China, the Moslems, the pirates) but the US wouldn't. Now Walmart, and Wall Street, and lawyers, that's another story.
There's be too much debate and internal problems for most Western Nations to do anything except diplomacy and internal security for a while. If they appeared near the South China Sea, and spoke English, the PLA/PLAN would be launching a full-scale invasion. If they landed in the Indian Ocean, the Indians would be flipping out, but no invasion. Even if they landed in the Great Lakes I doubt there'd be an invasion. Not even by the Quebecois.
Panic and stupidity (on both sides) certainly. An invasion? Not likely.

1250599 The minute America opens fire the Princesses shall countermeasure with great effectiveness, erasing all modern weaponry in the assailant's arsenal and showing that magic and divine intervention always trumps physics-restricted technology that such trigger-happy races are inclined to use. Thusly the war between America and Equestria ends in a glorious victory for the ponies and humanity shall submit to the might of the Princesses! Only when mankind submits to these divine moral superiors will war and famine end.

1250615 And what did you think of the super-genius who was his predecessor? He was nothing special either if you ask me.

1251321 With Discord on their side, it would be over pretty quick for us... Truth hurts :c

1251732 And you have defended yourself properly. *Claps*

1251965 Still better than Obummer.

1251933

Your argument is completely invalid. Both Celestia and Luna are not these over-powered goddesses that a lot of people claim them to be. They are most certainly mortal and wouldn't last long against practically any decent military in our world.

1252193 Speak not of the foul cynical conclusion of the 2nd series! The mantra of the series is 'Love and Tolerate', so anything that subverts this concept must be easy for the glorious Princesses to defeat!

Besides, who'd want to live in an Equestria where that kinda stuff happens?

The US invades Equestria for gems and slaves?

...Seriously, what century do some people think we live in!?

Nations annexing large swathes of territory is so two centuries ago. If anything, the US government's reaction to Equestria suddenly appearing would to be...well...continue getting nothing done.

Edit: Additionally, if any country wanted Equestria's gems, you know what would really happen? As far as we are aware, gems are extremely common in Equestria, therefore they are cheap. Invasions and military operations on the other hand, expensive as fuck. Countries or businesses that wanted gems would buy said gems and very low prices. You act as if Equestria jealously holds onto that crap.

1251512 You know, it's pretty easy for people like Metaknight to flex his typing muscles, but if he thinks he's imparting some great wisdom or truth, he's wrong. He's no different from any other misanthrope I've met: a whiny, lazy, hypocritical nobody. A brilcreemed salesman telling dissatisfied people what they want to hear. If he thinks the world is stupid, mean-spirited and repulsive, then why doesn't he do anything about it?

1250743 Oh tell me about it, I had a guy just like that in my platoon at Ft. Sill. Never kept his mouth shut, and got chaptered out so fast. We called him Johnny Bravo.

1251638
PV2 Manning committed treason. Significant difference than whistle blowing. His actions resulted in the deaths of several US military SOCOM operators and CIA operatives, and jeopardized the lives of thousands of others. He's not the saint the Hollywood liberals are trying to make him out to be. Try naming someone that doesn't have the blood of fellow Americans (whom he swore an oath to defend, even if it cost him his life) on his hands.

1252823
Had an Army ROTC Cadet like that once. The battalion made sure to run his a off after the first month of training (and that was by fellow Cadets, the Cadre had nothing to do with it). Then again, what did we expect to come from the heavily anti-military campus of the University of Minnesota... Sometimes I wondered why we didn't get hazard-pay for some of the s we went through.

1251512

If you don't vote, you honestly have no right to complain about the elected officials who run the country. Bitchin' and moanin' and then doing nothing about it is completely idiotic. It's like a fat person complaining about their belly-flap and then refusing to work out or eat less shit.

MetaKnight might be spouting off stupid and uninformed opinions (or more likely, just trolling), but I have to argue against your logic here. Inherent in the right to vote is the right to abstain from voting. If a person does their homework by researching all the candidates' political backgrounds, voting records, and speeches, and decides that none of those candidates are worthy of the position they are running for, then that person is perfectly within their right to withhold their vote and criticize the winner's actions.

Edit: Deleted some irrelevant political stuff.

If a portal from equestria opened up here multiple things could happen
1. They would take one look at Human history, Leave, And nuke the portal into non-existance
2. They would heavily guard the portal to restrict access to only a few specific beings
3. They would go all "Hoomans are evil!" and try nuking us with the EoH only for nothing to happen since their is no magic here

Humans on the other hand would be like
1. Lets hug them all for how adorable they are and never declare war on them! (3 months latter...)
2. All of the Democratic countries will be like EW NON FREEDOM! WE MUST FREE THEM ALLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :Error:
3. All the big corporations will begin fighting in this new land for all of its delicious resourcey goodness and McDonalds will become a country.
4. Arabian terrorists who have a stick up there ass because everyone isn't immediately "Bow down to the great Arabian dude with a beard" will try to blow up the castle

So yeah best plan of action? Close the portal...

1251973

isn't the military fucking awesome did you know that last i read we spend over 500,000,000,000 dollars a year on the DOD more then the next i think it said 27 nations put together are navy has more tonnage then i think the next 14 naveys put together and the GDP for the us is something like 14,000,000,000,000, a year we my pony friends are a world fucking super power ancient ROME could only dream of having as much power as we do we have over 2000 odd nuclear weapons we could end the fucking world if we chose too lol china may be up and coming but as of right now we are by far still number one are debt lol the fucking world economy would end over night if anyone tried calling are dept in and they all know it too so dose it truly matter in the end it took hundreds of years for ROME to fall a lot of people back then chouldent even tell you if Rome had fell or not only far later did historians declare the sack of Rome its end so the good ole USA ant going anywhere any time soon whether you like are commie president or not the ponys of equestria whouldnt have a fucking chance in hell ageist the united states if we chose to annex them most of the world dosent have a chance ageist us if we chose to annex them this is why we are a super power A SUPER POWER the fucking name says it all so if any one dosent like my country go eat shit and die cauz that's all you can do right now go move to socialist Europe with its falling birth rates or fucking commie china since every one thinks there so fucking great and yes my spelling sucks and i don't punctuate fucking grammar Nazis

wow kinda went off there lol stay pony my friends and rember love and tolerate

1255713
lol didnt mean to go off on you i liked your post your right ranbow dash vs phalanx minigun lol or an M1A1
i just got kinda pissed when i started to think about all the ant america bull shit on this post and it went from telling how awsuom the US is to just me ranting a bit but i wasent ranting at you more like fucking metaknight

lol ant america

-sigh- anti America

1250599

Either you're not from here, or you're just an idiot.

Tails pulls his M39 EMR out and takes aim at his target, a dumbass holding a sign up about 'Merica, at 800 meters. "Sorry Celestia, but the idiocy is strong in this one..."

Love how my last comment got downvoted to the point of being hidden, when its the only post in this thread that brought forth objective evidence.

Guess the "Humans are Number One!!!" crowd just doesn't wanna permit any counterarguments.

1251973

Have you held a gun before? An M-16 has an effective range of 500 yards, a lot more than 500 feet.

Rainbow Dash can go supersonic? That's cute. An AIM-120 AMRAAM goes about Mach 3. And it doesn't matter whether or not the troopers are good shots, if you're filling the air with lead it doesn't matter. Rainbow Dash and all her Pegasus friends would lose horribly to this.

Nope, wrong again.

First of all, shots fired with bad or no aiming are liable to miss, even if there's a lot of them. Anyone who just trusts to luck is a bad strategist.

Secondly, bullets are not instantly fatal--even if they hit, they could just graze. And we've seen these ponies survive things humans couldn't (remember Dash nuking the shack? Realistically she should've been killed by that, but apparently that's something she does casually).

Oh, and ammunition is limited. Those barrels and turrets will run empty in probably a matter of minutes.

When the tank ran out of ammo, the crew could just drive over Royal Guard ponies. That shiny gold armor isn't going to do much good against a 66 ton tank coming at you at 40 MPH.

Because, you know, a Guard Pony won't think to get out of the way.

Let's be honest. Just about every "ponies would lose" argument requires you to
A. Ignore canon.
B. Assume the ponies are morons.
C. Assume technology will automatically trump magic.
D. Ignore the existence of Discord (WHICH I NOTICE EVERYONE IS STILL DOING)

There is no argument. There's just a bunch of close-minded homo sapiens who insist on believing the 1950s Sci-Fi myth that we're the best species in the entire universe and can take anything that's thrown at us. That arrogance is gonna get us killed one day.

1257408 A missile can't turn 90 or 180 degrees in mid-flight in literally less than a second. Rainbow Dash or any other pegasus can. This would likely make radar and the computer's ability to lead and track useless.

And these pegasi can fly fast enough to create HURRICANES--last I checked, hurricanes were pretty devastating to humankind.

I'm gonna repeat what I said earlier: Just about every "ponies would lose" argument requires you to

A. Ignore canon (which shows that even civilian-level ponies have abilities that would make them Gods in the real world).

B. Assume the ponies are morons. (which admittedly, some of them are, but even the dumbest ones have shown an ability to stand up well in the combat zone).

C. Assume technology will automatically trump magic. (Which I find hard to believe, if anything due to just the nature of magic itself).

D. Ignore the existence of Discord (WHICH I NOTICE EVERYONE IS STILL DOING)

1257561 Rainbow Dash could Sonic Rainboom an airfleet of planes. The Boom itself would disrupt them and at the very least, force them to land. (I'll admit I'm getting into headcanon territory, but this whole debate relies on a scenario that is almost never going to happen outside of fanfiction).

Also a Pegasi could land on the cockpit, kick open the glass, and just kill (or horribly maim) the pilot... possibly using a shard of broken glass to slit their throats.

I'm trying to imagine how exactly a waterborne vehicle would figure into it, as we haven't seen any large bodies of water in Equestria that would be of much strategic importance, but that being said, if I were a pony, here's how I would defeat a human boat: Freeze the water. Now the boat is immobile, and the marines would be forced to abandon it and become just infantry, where they'd be easier to deal with.

And yes, you can reload a gun and call out for new supplies, but keep in mind the time factor--those supplies aren't gonna be delivered instantaneously, and besides the ponies could sabotage your supply lines.

Ultimately though, I think the biggest problem with any human conquest of Equestria is this: we don't know much about it. From the canon, we only know about three locations--one of which is a basically-unimportant backwoods town (and this is the place we know the most about!) We've seen only two magical artifacts--the Elements of Harmony and the Alicorn Amulet. Who is to say there isn't more? Trixie tried to magic up a storm in "Boast Busters" and Rarity literally magicked one up in "Magical Mystery Cure," so whose to say what the upper limit of magic is?

That's the reason I can't see technology beating magic. With technology, there are known limits, known can-dos and can't-dos. Magic, there isn't. There's only "what we've seen so far."

In a worst-case scenario, Celestia could have somepony use that time travel spell to go back 100 years to drop off a message so that the timeline will change... So there's just no way ponies could lose.

And, again, Discord.

the ponys have not been in a war for over a 1000 years and now all of a sudden there a match for mankind? they are going to what just magic Intel and logistics and weapons out of thin air and win a war ageist a world that has weapons and knows how to do logistics and get Intel we find out about equestria alot faster then they could ever hope to find out about us we have things like quick launch satellites ,UAVS
Marine recon, navy seals and Green Berets also this one one plane called an sr-71 lol hell why not maybe even a u-2 and logistics i hope they got big ass chariots cause we got C-31,C-17,C-5's and CH-47[the big helicopter with two engines ] V-22 osprey etc etc....the list goes on and most of all we got people who know and will use them very very well thats another thing we have people who this is there chosen field of work they are professionals and we have the best in the world are troops are second to none in training and equipment rember my earlier comment we spend US$ 553.0 billion (est. 2012) on are DOD ill make a bet that equstriea's GDP isent that much in a year look i like my ponys too scoots best pony by far but in a war they are way out classed by humanity and the USA a lot of very smart people have spent A LOT of money for a very long time to make are military the best plus humanity is a race of predators ponys are prey killing is what we do trying to not be killed is what they do

1257932 Okay, point about the Sonic Rainboom (of course, there's still the possibility that Dash could use her body as a bullet... if rain-nuking that shed didn't kill her, after all...)

As for the canopy glass... the ponies have shown they have exceptional strength. Big Mac pulled an entire house by himself. Applejack can kick trees so hard that every apple on them falls (go kick a tree... they're not soft). Yes, those are Earth Ponies, but we've seen that Rainbow Dash's athleticism is equal (almost) to Applejack's. I can't imagine glass--no matter how reinforced it is--standing a chance.

And this is all assuming that she's not given magical strength-enhancing horseshoes or something.

My logic regarding the ship was based on what I had said about not remembering seeing any large bodies of water in a place of strategic importance (or, really, any large bodies at all--we've really only seen a few ponds around Ponyville and I doubt a ship would be in those). Canterlot gives me the impression that its very far inland, so a naval attack wouldn't assume much importance in taking it down... and especially if the ships could be deadlocked far out at sea where, perhaps, the most they could do is launch ICBMs.

I'm... actually surprised that nukes are an intentional omission here. Not really a huge fan of this "I won't mention X if you don't mention Y" stuff. I mean think about it: if this war were to happen, if they had something that could turn the tide, they'd use it. There'd be no deal-making there.

1250630
I know right, how come no one ever assumes that I, along side my batshit bloodthursty Canadian Brothers will wreck shit up. By the way, blood thirsty is spelled like that for a reason.

1259038
<nudges you playfully with a wing> I don't know.... I think you Canadians are up to something up there. How do we all know you won't one day attack Turkey, and as you put the locals heads on spikes, rename the country Chicken?

1251732
You say "six of them beat up an army of changelings" as if changelings were a challenge to combat.

Second, what would dragons care? One of them got talked into submission by a skittish pony. The others are assholes who generally don't care for other species, so much as we've seen.

Also, the ponies weren't skittish around a cider machine because the cider machine wasn't causing explosions or was attempting to kill them.

Also, flying at 100 miles per hour? Where in the world did you get that statistic from? And which gun are you speaking of again? The military has dozens of rifles and machine guns for a variety of purposes.And guns can definitely shoot more than 500 feet. You must be speaking of airsoft guns or some shit. While their effective ranges do drop off around 500 meters for many assault rifles, the bullet still travels well beyond that. It doesn't suddenly disappear. Even factoring in wind resistance, you could shoot a 7.62 round (the bullets that go into M14s, AK-47's, ect.) well over a kilometer.

Lastly, Discord? I'd lump him in with the dragons. The "don't give a shit" department.1258572

1257179
And you're right, bullets aren't always fatal. Which is even better. Do you know why the US military used the 5.56mm round, instead of the 7.62mm round like the Russians? Because it's less lethal. Do you know what happens when a soldier is killed? He dies. Do you know what happens when a soldier is wounded? Other men have to stop what their doing, and take that guy out of combat. Death takes one man out of the battle. Wounding takes out two or more. Not to mention, the psychological effects inflicted on surrounding soldiers. Seeing a dead man is sad, but dead men don't scream in pain and cry out for help or death or their mothers. Afterward, the opposing military has to waste valuable and expensive medical supplies to treat the wounded soldier. You know what the Russian military did after the US adopted the less-than-lethal 5.56mm? It dropped the 7.62mm and made a 5.45mm for their standard assault rifles.

Also, it seems you're assuming all ponies are as skills and Rainbow Dash. She is the only one that can do a sonic rainboom-nuke, whatever (considering that "nuke" is only about as powerful as a conventional bomb, and not an actual nuke, lest it would've wiped out Ponyville). Also, the "tornado" kind of assumes all ponies are working together to get it done. Do you know what we could do to Pegasi?

Anti-Air missiles. Do you think those things actually have to hit Pegasi? Nope. You mention Pegasi can flip 90-180 degrees instantly. It wouldn't matter. Anti-Air missiles aren't meant to blow things up. They're meant to damage. Those things simply detect when it's near what it's chasing, and explodes, releasing a very wide explosion. All those near-misses with jets that happen in movies? Complete bull-shit. All they have to do is get roughly near their targets. Moving at Mach 2 and faster, it'd be no issue.

All you would have to do is launch missiles into that "tornado" and watch it turn red. The flak and shrapnel would likely Swiss cheese the lot of them.

Again, that CIWS the guy mentioned earlier. Do you know what that thing does? It's designed to take out missiles. I live near a military base, and they do testing for those things often. They knock out foot-ball sized targets going plenty faster than any Pegasi we've seen, barring Rainbow Dash.

As far as "running out of ammo" goes, there is always more in the back.

1258572
Ships are useful for more than ICBM's. They're launch points for aircraft, and can shoot guns that go in and bombard targets several miles inland.

You're also assuming Canopy Glass is actually glass. It's not.

I'm not saying they wouldn't inflict a few casualties, or draw out a war, but the possibility of them winning a war? Zero.

1259108

You say "six of them beat up an army of changelings" as if changelings were a challenge to combat.

Why would we assume they weren't?

Second, what would dragons care?

What I meant with that point was, if ponies are willing to confront dragons, why would they freak out over military weaponry? That's also why I brought up Tartarus (keep in mind, that's basically Greek Hell, if I remember my mythology correctly)--to show that there's no reason to assume Ponies would lose their cool over mere machines when their world already has things that are far worse.

The idea that ponies might form alliances with dragons and changelings actually somehow never occured to me until now.

(Someone really needs to program a computer game around this premise).

Lastly, Discord? I'd lump him in with the dragons. The "don't give a shit" department

Except that... after the events of "Keep Calm and Flutter On," Discord does, in fact, give a shit. That was pretty much the entire point of that episode (and the entire reason Celestia wanted him reformed, mind, was so his powers could be used for good).

Also, it seems you're assuming all ponies are as skills and Rainbow Dash.

I will admit that this is a huge flaw in my argument.

What I'm betting on, see, is that the harsher environment brought on by war will result in the ponies toughening up. Harsh environments tend to breed stronger beings. The ponies have shown, again and again, that when they're threatened, they'll suddenly become badass.

Heck, even in undemanding moments, they've shown amazing strengths. Big Macintosh once pulled an entire house, by himself! (Jury is still out on why he had trouble carrying a cake in a later episode...)

It just occured to me that throughout this discussion we've been focusing on raw power. I feel ashamed of that. After all, Romance of the Three Kingdoms--a novelized account of one of China's many civil wars--contains many battles in which a technically weaker army defeated a superior one, or where victory or defeat were handed out by something other than military might. Personally, I don't believe Celestia or Luna would make very good strategists, but if there's a pony equivalent of Sun Tzu or Zhuge Liang, and assuming they're completely loyal to the cause, then humans would have no chance.

Especially, again (and I hate to harp on this, but) since ponies have magic, and we don't. It may be just the way I think, but I just can't see technology beating magic.

Ships are useful for more than ICBM's. They're launch points for aircraft, and can shoot guns that go in and bombard targets several miles inland.

Maybe they can, but is there any target within their effective range that is actually worth firing on or sending jets after?

Actually, until we have more canonical data to work with, the whole discussion of naval ships is kind of moot.

ILLUMINATI LOLZ MERICA.

Just kidding, gunz blazing huh? I'm not sure about that, actually. Maybe they would use us bronies to gain their trust?

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Why would we assume they weren't?

Like you said, six of them managed to defeat them.

What I meant with that point was, if ponies are willing to confront dragons, why would they freak out over military weaponry? That's also why I brought up Tartarus (keep in mind, that's basically Greek Hell, if I remember my mythology correctly)--to show that there's no reason to assume Ponies would lose their cool over mere machines when their world already has things that are far worse.
The idea that ponies might form alliances with dragons and changelings actually somehow never occured to me until now.
(Someone really needs to program a computer game around this premise).

Tartarus may exist, but I doubt ponies go out of their way to visit it. Mind you, the Greeks believed it existed as well. I'm pretty sure that's something most wouldn't try to find. Also, not all ponies were willing to confront dragons. Just the Six. Also, machines are scary. Most people are scared of guns because they can kill you. I have no doubt ponies are also scared of things that could potentially take their lives.

Except that... after the events of "Keep Calm and Flutter On," Discord does, in fact, give a shit. That was pretty much the entire point of that episode (and the entire reason Celestia wanted him reformed, mind, was so his powers could be used for good).

I'll admit, it is a strong point, but we've seen no evidence the guy is invincible. Again, assuming he helps.

I will admit that this is a huge flaw in my argument.
What I'm betting on, see, is that the harsher environment brought on by war will result in the ponies toughening up. Harsh environments tend to breed stronger beings. The ponies have shown, again and again, that when they're threatened, they'll suddenly become badass.
Heck, even in undemanding moments, they've shown amazing strengths. Big Macintosh once pulled an entire house, by himself! (Jury is still out on why he had trouble carrying a cake in a later episode...)
It just occured to me that throughout this discussion we've been focusing on raw power. I feel ashamed of that. After all, Romance of the Three Kingdoms--a novelized account of one of China's many civil wars--contains many battles in which a technically weaker army defeated a superior one, or where victory or defeat were handed out by something other than military might. Personally, I don't believe Celestia or Luna would make very good strategists, but if there's a pony equivalent of Sun Tzu or Zhuge Liang, and assuming they're completely loyal to the cause, then humans would have no chance.
.

Harsh environments do lead to tougher species, but evolution takes place over thousands of years. Also, while I'm sure their personalities will harden, they'll be facing soldiers who have already seen war, and will harden even further. You also have to realize, humans have amazing strengths as well. People near-death have often shown displays of amazing power, able to run faster and hit harder than anything they've previously done.

You're also right about tactics. It helps. However, seeing as how humans have been thinking up tactics for thousands of years, and how ponies have been well, farming and making clothes and stuff, their general inexperience with the stuff would make them significantly worse at battle. The Royal Guards I doubt event train for upper-level warfare. They probably just handle rowdy townspeople or act as messengers. Even assuming they did train for warfare, their tactics would probably be fairly outdated. They utilize spears for weapons. I can't imagine their tactics being much different than anything we've come up with before or during the Middle Ages (as far as Earth Ponies go). They'd have to be facing entirely new weapons.

When (American civil war before that) World War 1 and 2 came about, entirely new tactics had to be made. Before, with guns, armies lined up and rows and shot at each other because guns were that inaccurate and shot that less often. With the advent of machine guns, people were dying quickly. People stopped lining up in rows of 20, and new, squad-based/fireteam tactics came about, and rather quickly. The invention of planes were also there.

Especially, again (and I hate to harp on this, but) since ponies have magic, and we don't. It may be just the way I think, but I just can't see technology beating magic.

What is magic, but unexplained technology? If I took back a flashlight, or an automatic gun, or cell phone back to the Middle Ages, I'd be strung up and burned as a witch/demon for using magic. Looking at ponies from a scientific standpoint, there is no "It's magic, no need to explain shit!" There is a cause for everything, and magic must come from somewhere. Assuming magic was that threatening (and I don't recall see anybody outside of Twilight, Discord, or winged unicorns use any magic besides simple levitation) there would be scientists all over that shit, looking for ways to disrupt or disable them. Not to mention, we have no idea how strong the average unicorn's magic is. Going off of powerful artifacts such as the Elements of Harmony (which never even damaged anything, it simply purged Luna of evil magic, and seeing as people have no magic, evil or otherwise to purge, it wouldn't do anything) or powerful unicorns such as Twilight is no indicator of what they could do.

You also have to take into consideration that if we were desperate, we would not hold back with "illegal" weaponry. Biological and chemical weaponry would be used with reckless abandon if we thought we were going to lose. They might be able to use magic to temporarily breathe through poisonous grass, but what about wildlife, or their crops? If we wanted to make it so, Equestria would be a poisoned wasteland where crops wouldn't grow. Their "perfect" ecosystem would be heavily disrupted.

Literally the only thing I could see remotely working at all is Discord, and even then, like I said, we've seen no evidence the guy is invincible, and we also know of artifacts that could disrupt his power. The fact that we have a pre-emptive look at their universe is a great advantage. Especially seeing as how these "super-artifacts" are kept in a damn book in a library. We may not be able to use them, but we could damn sure see how they work.

(holy fucking textwall)

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Tartarus may exist, but I doubt ponies go out of their way to visit it. Mind you, the Greeks believed it existed as well.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by bringing up the Greeks. But there's an inherent difference in situations: they merely believed in Tartarus. Twilight Sparkle actually knows where it is.

What is magic, but unexplained technology? If I took back a flashlight, or an automatic gun, or cell phone back to the Middle Ages, I'd be strung up and burned as a witch/demon for using magic.

And again, that's a problematic comparison in this context, because Equestria clearly has both magic and technology and they're clearly different things, and understood as such by its residents. I didn't see any pony leaping to claim the cider machine was magic.

The way it's been presented in the show, magic is more like a muscle. Every time Twilight couldn't do a spell, it wasn't that she didn't know how (well, sometimes it was), but that she wasn't strong enough--the age spells for instance, or having to give up on giving ponies wings because it was "too hard." I'm still not sure how items like the Elements or the Alicorn Amulet come into being--presumably the same way the One Ring did (IE a really powerful sorcerer made them).

You're also right about tactics. It helps. However, seeing as how humans have been thinking up tactics for thousands of years, and how ponies have been well, farming and making clothes and stuff, their general inexperience with the stuff would make them significantly worse at battle. The Royal Guards I doubt event train for upper-level warfare. They probably just handle rowdy townspeople or act as messengers. Even assuming they did train for warfare, their tactics would probably be fairly outdated. They utilize spears for weapons. I can't imagine their tactics being much different than anything we've come up with before or during the Middle Ages (as far as Earth Ponies go). They'd have to be facing entirely new weapons.

Two points.

First, you're judging all of Equestria by what we've seen in the show--which, as I've pointed out time and again, doesn't really show us that much of Equestria. It's kind of like how people assume they know everything about Japan just because they've read a couple of manga. If we were to go to Equestria for real, we'd probably be in for a rude awakening. (and yes, I'm aware that pointing this out makes further discussion moot, since any conceivable point could be answered with "not enough intel", but I'm willing to carry on if you are).

Secondly, I'm not sure guns or tanks or other human weaponry would be new to them. Rainbow Dash has a pet turtle named Tank, which leads me to think Equestria has to have tanks, or know what they are. (FWIW, even though I'm shooting myself in the foot by doing so, I'm pretending that "Mysterious Mare-do-Well" never happened). And then, the thing about a world with magic is that its not much of a stretch to believe there are magical devices functionally similar to our weaponry. I remember a D&D rulebook had a mage spell where you could put a fireball inside a rock and set it to detonate... same as a bomb. And then there could always be spears that shoot lighting, wands of Magic Missile, earthquake spells... in other words, they might not have dealt with our technology per se, but they could easily have dealt with magic that was similar, and all they'd have to do is figure out what's different and adjust their tactics accordingly.

Likewise, the invading humans would have to adjust to magical attacks. I'm not so sure "scientists would be all over it"--that would assume they have access to materials for study, and how would they get them? Moreover, since magic is pretty nebulous, they might study it for decades and never uncover its limits or a way to block it (and this is assuming the ponies don't actively sabotage their research). I'm getting into headcanon territory here, but in my fics I've always presented that the mere discovery of magic was too much for many humans to handle since they had become used to a material universe (as, indeed, real-life humans have today). In other words, if anyone is gonna be freaking out and cowering, it's the humans--not the ponies.

Ultimately then, this discussion comes down to what you have more faith in--Magic or Technology.

(Although, I guess how highly you rate the American military is important too.)

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I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by bringing up the Greeks. But there's an inherent difference in situations: they merely believed in Tartarus. Twilight Sparkle actually knows where it is.

My point is: so what if Tartarus exists? That helps them none.

And again, that's a problematic comparison in this context, because Equestria clearly has both magic and technology and they're clearly different things, and understood as such by its residents. I didn't see any pony leaping to claim the cider machine was magic.
The way it's been presented in the show, magic is more like a muscle. Every time Twilight couldn't do a spell, it wasn't that she didn't know how (well, sometimes it was), but that she wasn't strong enough--the age spells for instance, or having to give up on giving ponies wings because it was "too hard." I'm still not sure how items like the Elements or the Alicorn Amulet come into being--presumably the same way the One Ring did (IE a really powerful sorcerer made them).

Again, all is magic is: something you cannot currently explain. I fucked up explaining it as technology, but my point still stands. While ponies cannot explain what must be a biological process (probably researching what they can do with it rather than what causes it), humans could research and find that out. We're pretty good at that stuff.

First, you're judging all of Equestria by what we've seen in the show--which, as I've pointed out time and again, doesn't really show us that much of Equestria. It's kind of like how people assume they know everything about Japan just because they've read a couple of manga. If we were to go to Equestria for real, we'd probably be in for a rude awakening. (and yes, I'm aware that pointing this out makes further discussion moot, since any conceivable point could be answered with "not enough intel", but I'm willing to carry on if you are).

How else are we to judge Equestria, if not by the show? All else is merely speculation and conjecture (or head-canon). I'm aware that it only shows a little bit of what the world could be, but that's all we have to judge by.

Secondly, I'm not sure guns or tanks or other human weaponry would be new to them. Rainbow Dash has a pet turtle named Tank, which leads me to think Equestria has to have tanks, or know what they are. (FWIW, even though I'm shooting myself in the foot by doing so, I'm pretending that "Mysterious Mare-do-Well" never happened). And then, the thing about a world with magic is that its not much of a stretch to believe there are magical devices functionally similar to our weaponry. I remember a D&D rulebook had a mage spell where you could put a fireball inside a rock and set it to detonate... same as a bomb. And then there could always be spears that shoot lighting, wands of Magic Missile, earthquake spells... in other words, they might not have dealt with our technology per se, but they could easily have dealt with magic that was similar, and all they'd have to do is figure out what's different and adjust their tactics accordingly.

Sure, I'll give you that they might know what tanks are. But how advanced are Equestrian tanks? We don't know if they're talking about a Leonardo-esque tank or a modern MBT (which, from what we've seen of the technology, they can't have. Assuming this technology is anywhere from Civil War to Pre-WW2 tech.)

As far as magic is concerned, again we have no real way of knowing their scope of power. It's quite obvious magic takes physical exertion and again "muscle flexing" as you put it. I don't believe ponies would be able to recreate the force of a bomb. Aside from from princesses and Twilight, no other pony has shown great feats of magic that could recreate the force a bomb puts out. As far as "dealing with similar magic," common knowledge of war-like, offensive spells would kind of not make sense in a supposedly peaceful world where pretty much all problems can be talked away (or something other than fought).

Likewise, the invading humans would have to adjust to magical attacks. I'm not so sure "scientists would be all over it"--that would assume they have access to materials for study, and how would they get them? Moreover, since magic is pretty nebulous, they might study it for decades and never uncover its limits or a way to block it (and this is assuming the ponies don't actively sabotage their research). I'm getting into headcanon territory here, but in my fics I've always presented that the mere discovery of magic was too much for many humans to handle since they had become used to a material universe (as, indeed, real-life humans have today). In other words, if anyone is gonna be freaking out and cowering, it's the humans--not the ponies.

Scientists would be over it. After World war 2 the United States and Russia scrambled to get a hold of German blueprints for German technology. Even then, Russia scrambled to find out how the U.S. made nukes once we dropped a pair on Japan. War has always always always accelerated technology in human history, because technological superiority is a huge factor in warfare. And you're right, it might take time, but wars also take time. There is no clear numbers of the pony population, but humans sure have plenty of war-capable bodies to spare.

As far as research goes, there is no way for ponies to know where all research stations are at all times. Research will happen regardless of what ponies do.

And like I said, we already have insight into their world. We already know they have magic. Also, I don't see how any real-life human would freak out over magic today, seeing as how magic (as far as you've defined it) doesn't exist. If you're referring to television shows such as MindFreak and the like, that isn't horror, that's simple fascination stemming from a naturally curious brain.

Besides, ponies are naturally skittish creatures. It's obvious they have horse-like tendencies, and when guns became a regular theme in warfare, horses had to have blinders put on and fragrances around their noses so they wouldn't flip out. It was already hard enough training war-horses to not flip the fuck out when a rider ordered it to charge into a mass of men with swords. Ponies/horses are not predators. Their first choice is almost always "flight" and not "fight."

Ultimately then, this discussion comes down to what you have more faith in--Magic or Technology.
(Although, I guess how highly you rate the American military is important too.)

You're right. As you said, magic is defined very poorly in the show, and as I've said, we have no real way of knowing the capabilities of the average unicorn. We also don't know what resources they have, what their population is, and many other factors that would contribute to the outcome of a war. In the end, it is just speculation.

Also, whoever the dick is that keeps down-voting NoGiantRobots1983, can you stop? No need to hate on somebody for having a different opinion than you.