State Of The Estee: Medicaid Estate Recovery called... · 8:59pm Aug 31st, 2021
"I try not to tell you about the bad stuff."
Okay. Earlier today, I sounded the bullhorn in the Discord chat server, because that's where most of this has been playing out for the last several...
...months.
We originally talked about this on the 20th of January. About how Medicaid isn't a gift from the government: it is a loan. When a recipient dies, the estate recovery division gets first claim on the titled assets of the estate. And that I had to write them, list everything, I couldn't start the lawsuit because I had to be estate manager for that, and I couldn't file for that status without knowing and listing what was left...
Today, at 11:39 a.m, I received a call from Medicaid's estate recovery division.
It was the first one.
Months.
We talked about in the Discord. For the first couple of months, it was a near-daily mention -- on mail days. I'm going to check to see if there's anything now. Still nothing. Okay, that's Saturday: I'm clear for the rest of the weekend. And days became weeks, to months, into seasons. I wrote the initial status report blog about this in January, today is August 31st, and this was first contact.
Months. More than half a year. And... it wasn't even their fault...
It's nothing they did. Nothing I did, either.
I'm very tired. I've been on the phone, on and off, for hours now. I didn't eat. I forgot to take out anything which could be defrosted for dinner, and I'm not even going to look until this blog is up. I've been silent on this one for months, at least in this medium.
I need to tell you all what's going on.
And why it was today.
I was scared. I put the car in her name for insurance purposes, remember? A titled asset. That meant it was subject to claim. And because I was waiting for that, I couldn't transfer any of the documents. I couldn't insure it, or update the registration. Having it inspected was right out. Every drive was a risk, and -- I can get into an accident when I'm not moving. Losing the car seemed likely, and I didn't know if they would let me buy it back.
It was, to a large degree, about the car. I expected they would claim whatever was in her bank account. Coming into the apartment... I was ready with a list of 'I paid for that' and was prepared to be fully honest with it. (Not that it might have mattered, since receipts of years past are pretty much gone.) I wanted to play everything straight. That was hers. Yes, you have a claim on that. It was never my china set. But losing the car... the used vehicle market in the United States is going through a tremendous price spike. I can't go car shopping. I'm not even sure about my ability to insure this one, if it somehow stayed with me.
And some of it was about the potential lawsuit, the one I wanted to file in her name in order to ask about how she broke her hip that night. The thing which couldn't move forward until I had all of the paperwork settled.
I didn't tell you this about the lawsuit. I didn't think it was important at the time.
Starting from the date of injury, there's a two-year deadline to file.
Plenty of time.
But then it was March.
April.
July.
And I still hadn't heard from Medicaid.
Why didn't I contact them? Ask what was going on? Because I couldn't. There are two points of contact for the Estate Recovery division. One is a phone number. When you call it, a recording plays. It explains the five questions on the estate assessment form, and that's it. There's also a post office box. That receives the form. And... there's nothing else. No email, no website. No physical office location listed online. Nothing at all.
The thing about getting to July -- is that you start to think about how easy it would be to reach December. January again, and then another December. The deadline could run out. It was possible to lose the lawsuit, and... I accepted that.
But I couldn't do anything about the car.
I couldn't distribute her possessions.
All I was allowed to throw away was food and disposables. I still haven't dumped all of the shampoo.
I couldn't try to move forward. To go on...
I was frustrated. Worried. Starting to seriously believe that the wait might go on for a year or more.
But I wasn't angry.
This is why.
In my rough area, there have been about 27,000 verified coronavirus deaths. My mother was one of them. She was in the vulnerable category: asthma and myasthenia gravis. She had numerous medical issues and, after a lot of paperwork and dealing with the income limits, they qualified her for Medicaid.
Twenty-seven thousand deaths.
Medicaid recipients typically have one thing in common: they're low-income. Some are children. But for the adults... a number try for the program because they're vulnerable. One severe medical issue. More than one. It gives them expenses they couldn't cover any other way. Their lives are at risk, always.
Twenty-seven thousand deaths.
How many of them do you think were Medicaid recipients?
When I spoke to the representative today, I told her I felt it was at least four digits.
She said I was low.
This is what I assumed. This is also where I was right.
I thought the Estate Recovery division had to be a small one. That so many of the deaths must have been their charges, and... they had never been intended to handle so many. They had to be flooded out. Too many estates to settle, too few people to do it.
They are drowning in paperwork. The offices are jammed with it. No one can light a match or the whole place might go up. But at least the injuries will be minimal, because the government just about closed down for a while -- at least for the use of official sites. They were working from home. On a good week, they came into the office for one day.
They couldn't keep up. They're struggling to get through a tremendous number of cases, without the staff or hours or much letup in the flood.
And I wasn't mad because... it's not their fault.
But I was still worried about much how time was passing. Because I had heard nothing at all, and it's so much easier to wait when you know how long you'll be waiting for. Mark a date on the calendar and there's a goal to reach. Without that... staring forward into an endless abyss.
I talked about it in the Discord server.
My uncle kept asking...
In July, I went to see family for a few days. They paid for the trip. Greyhound. Do not do that unless you absolutely must, because mask discipline on the bus was not being enforced. Everyone I went to see was vaccinated and I still spent most of the time in terror of having infected someone.
They wanted me to try something. I was reluctant.
Because what they wanted was for me to contact my Congressional representative and ask that office to intervene.
...yeah. Go up against bureaucracy with more bureaucracy. Let's think of all the ways that could go wrong -- no, actually, let's stick with thinking about half of them or we could be here for a very long time. I think my hesitancy there was justified. But the calendar pages kept flipping by...
I spoke to my attorney, who really wanted me to go for it.
I thought it over for a while.
And then I went to the website. Because of course you have to contact the office through a website. Work through a few drop-down menus to define the nature of the problem. There was no direct option for Medicaid Estate Recovery, and -- turns out that's because it's state, not national.
(Don't panic.)
And then there's a text box. Describe the problem.
I told them everything. The full situation. I was honest about the lawsuit, but... I told them it might not matter in the end. That I felt the division had to be flooded, I just wanted to try and move on, at least a little, and...
...what did I want?
Talk to the division for me. There must be contact information somewhere. Ask them to call me.
Tell me how long the line is.
When I can hope to reach the front.
I don't want to skip ahead. There must be people who've been holding on contact for longer than I have.
I can wait. Just give me a duration.
And that's all.
About a week later, the office emailed me. They needed me to fill out a Privacy Release Form, which legally allows them to try and intervene on my behalf: serving as a representative. I'm out of printer ink, so I went to the library, worked on it, found the new Describe Your Problem box in the PDF didn't stretch to suit on paper, wound up with three pages, and decided to use the library's fax because it was right there and a walk to the UPS Store could be avoided.
$3.75.
Cut out in the middle of the first page.
Call over librarian. Fiddle with system. Try again.
Fax apparently sent.
I emailed the office to ask if they'd received it. Then I left, went to another library, and made another version of the base form. Just in case.
A week passed...
This time, I called. They had never received the fax. In fact, they hadn't gotten my email asking about fax receipt.
...okay. I need to get this over with, it's in the 90s outside, and it will take me over four hours roundtrip to reach that office by train, more than ten to walk it. Hey, illegal car! You still up to starting?
I drove the paperwork over. It had to be done. And then I sat across a plexiglass-shielded desk from the staff aide and told her... a lot of it. I remember saying that I didn't want to jump the line: just to know how long it was. I'm one among thousands, and... tell me how many. That's all.
Because it was a state agency, I had to give her additional permission to contact my state senator. Just in case. Part of that was emailed over when I got home --
-- blocked. Went to her spam folder.
...so after that got fiddled with...
And Medicaid Estate Recovery called today.
(I left a message with the congressional office. I'll send email after this. Just saying thanks.)
Not exactly coincidence on the timing. But the bad part of this is that they didn't just happen to reach my place in line. They've had my form for months. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and that's something which the representative said to me directly. But she wasn't mad about it. She suggested that it was refreshing to speak with me, because... I wasn't angry.
Also, the congressional sent her the full form. Everything I'd written. She hadn't even been able to register her own car for a year. She understood.
So I cut ahead. I didn't mean to do so, and I'm sorry. I know this shoved someone towards the back. Maybe a lot of people. But I was the one who went for the paperwork nuke, and... they're trying to get things started.
They want me to file for estate manager status immediately because legally, that makes it easier to deal with me. What I was told by the surrogate court earlier? They consider that to be bad information. But my attorney wanted that status as well, so...
I called the surrogate court. First time in months. I needed to refresh my memory on the forms involved, and the filing fees. And on this go-round, they told me I couldn't become the administrator.
...
...turns out the estate isn't worth enough to legally have one.
(Don't panic.)
But I need to file the lawsuit, too --
-- oh, that? It's called ad prosequendum. Same form.
But my attorney wanted both...
I wrote the law firm. (I'm still waiting to hear back there.) Asked if ad prosequendum would be enough by itself. Called Medicaid, through the number which had called me. Same person. Yes, that's fine: it still establishes me as someone who can manage affairs.
Tomorrow, I'll have to drive again. No choice: it's supposed to rain for the next two days. And the paperwork will start flying.
The surrogate court needs her death certificate, plus the amendment form and the filled-out request for estate management. Unless my attorney advises otherwise, I will ask for both manager and ad prosequendum status. (I may need both, or the lawsuit could be lost.) This has to be faxed, because the surrogate court is closed to visitors. This time, I'll use the UPS Store.
The request form must include a list of all titled assets, with their value. Car and bank account. I need to ask the bank for the current balance.
Once the surrogate court has the form, they'll read it over and mail me an invoice via standard first-class. I have to pay this with a check or money order: I don't know if the website takes a debit card. They base the charges on what I'm asking to have done, and how many pages it'll take to process. For estate manager plus ad prosequendum -- if I can get both -- it's $175 base, plus five dollars per page. (I may also need extra copies of any resulting certificates.) Once they have the payment, it's four weeks to process everything. They handle deaths in the county, and... they're sort of flooded.
Meanwhile, Medicaid will be working on their end. In mid-September, I can hope to see a written letter from the assigned estate evaluator. Actual collection may have to wait until I have my end of the paperwork done -- but if I don't get that contact, I'm supposed to call them back. They'll decide what they're claiming, and start the processing there. In the opinion of the representative, it could be wrapped by the end of this year.
So that's almost where we stand. There's just two more details.
I don't know what potentially being unable to get estate manager status means for the lawsuit. If it's lost, then... so be it. Contingency: it costs me nothing, and I never spent money which hadn't been awarded. Remember, I was going to use any potential settlement figure as a moving fund. I'll just wind up stuck.
(I don't know if the idea of a settlement helped to move things up. Medicaid would collect a third, and... I'm sure they'd like to receive something.)
And the car? I asked. As a titled asset, Medicaid can claim it. But there have been times when, rather than going to the trouble of taking a vehicle to auction, they've allowed the family to buy it back. It just doesn't guarantee it'll happen this time. And the used car market has been spiking for months. The value assigned to the Cobalt may be more than I originally paid. More than I can afford, and that's before I finally learn what it'll take to insure it. So it's possible that I could lose the car no matter what I do, but...
...I don't know yet. And...
...I've been saying this for months: that I'd rather lose it than have it sitting in the parking spot month after month, illegal and uninsurable and just stuck. That's a quantum existence: total uncertainty, with no ability to choose an aspect. 'I no longer have a car' is a solidified state. I can do something with that, even if it's just kicking at the stairs and wondering how much my feet are going to hurt. It's an answer.
I wouldn't even be angry.
Frustrated, maybe...
I'm hoping things are under way now. That I can move forward. I'm aware that the process still has so many ways to stall out, but...
...someone called me today. That phone call could ultimately cost me a vehicle.
And yet, it's still more than I've had.
Ask what you need to. I probably don't have the answers, but -- I'll try.
It's been a very long day.
And I still don't know what to do about food.
ETA: I did ask something obvious: how does anyone contact you without an intervention? Turns out that recording has a voicemail activation after it stops playing. Some people leave messages, and others use the dropbox address for pleas. Both get checked occasionally.
But they're still flooded out.
And that may continue for a very long time.
I'm just glad you finally heard back from folks. Here's hoping matters continue to proceed smoothly. Or at least not at levels comparable to obsidian-flecked sandpaper.
There are an exceeding number of governmental agencies who are willing to spent $10k in order to extract $10 from a taxpayer. This seems to be a prime example.
At least it's finally moving forward.
Good luck, Estee.
5576020
I still don't understand why, though. Can someone, anyone, please explain these hideous sunk costs?
5576135
The government does things like, say… I’m on SSI. I’m supposed to have a review every 7 years (for genetic disorders and 3 TBIs, these are things that are not changing).
Instead, for the past 10 years, I’ve had a yearly SSI review. This costs money. It is unnecessary. It actually goes against agency guidelines. But I’m also expensive. Harass someone enough, make a benefit too much of a hassle, make it too difficult to live on your own, and you just may go into an institution.
They get kickbacks for institutions. Not so much for SSI and community living. (Institutions cost so much more than the less than $10k/year I live on, as well.)
SSI fraud is almost all white collar (on the bureaucratic side). But it’s just so much more political hay out of blaming the recipients, and again, those kickbacks from institutions… and you can get your relative a job doing those reviews…
Do you understand?
Oh my goodness. I'm so, so sorry you're having to go through all this! *sends hugs and moral support*
Seconding all the wishes for good luck, Estee.
Please try not to feel guilty or anything over contacting your representative. As I understand it, intervening to help a constituent is a core part of their job, and one of the main reasons why you have a representative. And yes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but I doubt that would have been enough, just by itself. I imagine the representative is also busy with people asking for help, and the fact that they helped you is a sign that your case has merit, that you deserve this little break. As we all know, who have been following your saga of frustrations and trouble.
I seem to recall something along these lines of "Oh this form is the same as that form, legally" and then when push came to shove it actually wasn't coming up last October or so?
5582023
I'm honestly not sure. Still. Medicaid feels I was given bad information by the surrogate court on the first go-round, my attorney hasn't protested, and I still don't have the bill/paperwork from the court. More things to wait on.
I only began to think about a lawsuit last December, after she broke her hip.
As said, I did ask about whether I could get both. However, there does seem to be a minimum estate value attached to the more comprehensive version. That is not going to be met.
5582024
The last go round I remember was regarding the medical power of attorney thing? Where you were assured that what you'd filed said and meant one thing but it actually did not.