Rant: So I visited EqD today... · 1:44am May 28th, 2017
...and found out that they finally got rid of the "No-Fanfic Mode".
I'll be honest, that thing annoyed the hay out of me. It was and still is one of the main culprits that made fan fiction "less" important in the eyes of the community. It gave the impression that every other form of fan art was more worthy. You never saw a "No-Fan Music Mode" or a "No-Fanart" mode.
This disregard for the actual effort it takes to write a story from beginning to end was infuriating. I honestly think, had that not been there, there would be at least some more appreciation for what we authors do, instead of being seen as something undesirable enough to merit an option to opt out, as if we were selling them some kind of defective product.
Tell me, what is the point of just how extremely critical EqD curators can be if people are basically encouraged to ignore stories? What is the points of edits, re-edits, feedback, waiting time just to get an answer if they provided a means for anyone to just avoid it? Didn't want to see it? Do like you do with basically any other post there and just scroll past it.
Heaven forbid you see a story that might interest you.
You want to know why there aren't any more crossover works between artists, musicians video makers and fanfic writers? "No Fan fiction Mode" is up there in the top 2 reasons, taking spot number one. When the "prime" site for MLP:FIM is basically saying we aren't worth it, what could possibly inspire these people to work with us?
That's why you end up with works like Double Rainboom. Cute animation; story sucks. Off the top of my head I can think of ten people that could have done a better job. If I think about it, I can probably point out over 30. Why? Because it's what people do here: we write. We make an effort as valid and as strenuous at times as these guys do with their own work.
So I'm glad that is finally gone, late, when it's practically pointless, but finally gone.
Equestria Daily has always looked down on fanfiction. That's part of why I only bother going to EqD when I absolutely have to. I generally get my pony news second hand.
4549405 Yeah, but for the longest time it was a "mark of quality" to be posted there. I know several authors who slaved for days to get their stories up to standard so they would be accepted... only to know even if they did, it would basically still only be viewed by the same people we have here.
The no-fanfic mode was pointless for the longest time, especially since EqD has been posting fewer fanfics over time. This is compounded by how tough the EqD standards are for most people, at least according to my experience and what others have told me. Figuring out what they're looking for in a story is much harder than it sounds, because it's more than just the technicalities from what I've noticed. There have been multiple occasions where I've disagreed with an EqD pre-reader, even if I accepted the rejection.
I definitely see where you're coming from in regards to how the no-fanfic mode tarnished how the fandom saw fics as a whole, and it's a part of the reason why I feel it hasn't had the enduring impact of the art and analysis communities. Furthermore, I can speak from experience that writing is much harder than it looks. I've tried my hand at writing for almost three years, and I'm still far away from figuring it out.
Good riddance to the no-fanfic mode.
4549413 It was a bad idea to begin with.
I never even realized that option existed. I barely go over to EqD as it is, but if that was there for this long, that seriously sucks. I've had two stories there (and there are plenty of authors who've had more) that probably got viewed by a fraction of the potential readers they could have. What a gyp!
4549419 I remember when they decided to implement it. It was basically like 4549405 said: blatant looking down on fan fiction. Funny since a few members of EqD wrote themselves. I'm surprised no one fought it, and if they did, they remained quiet about the whole thing.
I'll come to EqD's defense here, or at least play devil's advocate for a bit. I came from fanfic initially before getting into EqD as a pre-reader and then followup writer, so I definitely wasn't happy about the No-Fanfic tag before and am not at all sad to see it go. However, the reason it was initially put up wasn't because of any anti-fanfic agenda by the staff, but rather one from the site users.
To be perfectly honest, people bitched a lot about having to see any fanfic on the blog whatsoever, citing any number of preconceived biases and antagonism as their rationale. Speaking subjectively, I'd love to tell all of said complainers to sit on their opinions and spin, but objectively it was becoming a hassle for Seth and the rest of the staff to deal with. At the time, the sheer volume of fanfic was admittedly overwhelming as well--there was a time when we were publishing 3 to 4 new stories a day while working through a sizable backlog. Between those two factors, there came a point where an executive decision had to be made about whether we'd be seen as (and accordingly act like) a primarily fic-centric site instead of a more general news and content aggregation hub.
So in a nutshell, that was the reasoning at the time as I understood it. Frankly, I can see why that choice was made even though I disagree with it on a personal level. Like it or not (and I assume, like me, most of us do not), other kinds of fanwork--art, music, animation, etc--require much less audience engagement than fanfic, and moreover tend to require much less suspension of disbelief in terms of individual fanons and whatnot. To people outside our segment of the fandom, fanfic honestly just doesn't the same appeal, and it was due to that reality rearing its head a little too much that a compromise of sorts was made.
(Edit to tag 4549433 since I just saw that latest comment after I finished mine)
4549446 It was the easy way of doing it. That whole thing could have been solved in the same way they do nightly fan art posts and just stuck to a schedule. However you want to put it, the decision was to bend backwards at the cost of part of the fandom instead of encouraging an equal playing field. I never accused them of an anti-fanfic agenda, in fact, I've defended EqD in the past for several reasons, but there's no changing the fact that it did damage the perception of our segment of the fandom by choosing that option and that—in the process of doing so—undermined not only authors, but also EqD fic approves. I'm also not going to start hating on EqD, but I'm not going to even pretend the reasons were good enough not to find another solution.
Devil's advocate: around the time of Seasons 1-2, there was more or less a memetic consensus that fanfic in general was one of the most cancerous things on the internet, overtaking previous hate-obsessions like furries. Keeping fanfic at arm's length was part of what made EqD a reputable fansite.
Is that bullshit? Yes. Did it suck? Yes. Am I glad it's finally gone, years after it would have made much difference? Yes.
Do I understand why they did it? Yes. Can I blame them? Not really, at least for the first couple of years.
4549475 Like I said previously, it was the easy way out... and it did more damage than good. EqD was still getting their news, they were still doing the same things. If people had issues, they could have scrolled past it, regardless of how they felt about it.
Pretty ironic as I never would have found out about MLP in the right way without fanfiction.
Also would have left the fandom by now. Haven't watched the show since the end of season 5.
What's the difference in principle between EQD having a "no fanfic" button, and fimfiction having a "no mature fics" button?
(BTW, I don't recall seeing the "no fanfic" button in a long time. A year? Anybody know?)
Also BTW, I posted a story here and on EQD on Thursday, and I figure I got about 3 times as many views as I would have without EQD.
Man, I've never agreed with someone more.
I mean, officially, the reason was because show staff use EQD and can't be exposed to teh eebil fanfics (nevermind that art, comics and music are just as capable of portraying story, headcanons, and other things that could introduce legal complications), but it's like... Yeah, way to wait until EQD is well past being the center of the fandom's fanfiction writers. Just ask Pascoite how important EQD is to fanfic these days, he'll tell you. :B
4549504 Whether something is age-appropriate/NSFW for immediate exposure the moment you enter the site without settings is not the same as basically removing all trace of the authors instead of simply scrolling by something that doesn't interest you.
4549520 Right, I forgot about the legal issues. But apart from that, there are a lot of people who keep the mature filter on because they believe mature stories are icky, and I haven't heard anybody get indignant about that, and it seems similar to someone saying "no fanfic" because they think fanfic is icky.
I always thought "No Fanfic Mode" was absolute BS and yeah, definitely kinda insulting to the talented writers who do all this work (particularly knowing just how much effort it can take to get EqD to take a story in the first place - seriously, what the hell).
Out of curiosity, what was the second reason?
4549530
I mean... Porn is a very different thing from every other kind of writing. I don't think it's unreasonable to make there be a way to say "I don't want to look at or think about porn when I'm trying to read not-sexually-explicit fiction."
Not all mature fics are porn, so perhaps a higher resolution blacklisting function is needed. But for that reason alone I don't think it's a problem.
4549530 Well, that's the point. If it weren't for the legal issues, people would simply scroll past the stories or ignore them. That's what people do anyway if they don't like Romance or Drama or Dark. They're not implied to be an inferior form of art, nor are they implied as worthless enough to be ignored because some people find them offensive. Were it not for legal issues, this site wouldn't need a lot of sectioning and would just allow users to read—or not—what they want. What EqD essentially did right there is say: fine, this is not something that's worth the effort, so we'll just tag them and add a way to keep people from seeing them.
4549533 Because they think anyone can write.
I should really get back to actually writing/contributing to this site. I don't really do that much at all anymore, what with all of the tabletop games I'm in, and the two games I'm DM'ing. I should really try harder.
4549518 That has always been one of my issues... fan fiction can't be touched by staff (they still read it anyway) but comics, fanart and music videos/movies are fine? To the point that Episode 100 is basically an acknowledgement that they know what we're up to? I mean, that is a BS reason. Especially since if they add stories to "big updates" like they do with fan art and music videos, fics are perfectly ignorable.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. FUCK EqD!
EqD was never a particularly good place to find or read fanfics, which is why I was really glad when Knighty came along and made this site. I think that the general lack of quality of many fanfics (more so on other sites), and the stereotype that all fan-fiction is by 12 year olds who barely know a noun from a verb writing out their sexual fantasies, has done a lot more of the damage you're referring to than anything EqD ever did.
Downplaying fan-fiction is pervasive in YouTube channels, talk radio programs I've heard, and comedy in general.
EqD is pretty insignificant compared to this, especially these days.
4549518
vs.
4549446
Was there actually an "official reason"? I never saw a reason given. PP, did you hear Seth give show staff as the reason?
I think it was more about them getting tired of having to put that tag all over the place.
At any rate it does seems that (for the most part) fics are the bottom of the ladder when it comes to monetary value. I mean some of the TOP people get miniscule amounts for writing something for hire.
Something like art, even middling artists can make some amount per hour on commissions and the top artists not only work faster but better and can make a fair amount per hour.
Then there is the amount of money from the youtube ads etc the top animators can make from a project.
Oddly enough, the plushie makers are the ones who can rake in the ducats hand over hoof.
---
It actually bothers me a bit that the $ value of the artwork for a fic exceeds the value of the fic itself in most cases.
Really? About time, I've been low level pissed about the existence of that mode for years. It's been a slap in the face of this portion of the fandom for far too long.
I always assumed that mode existed because they posted multiple fanfiction things every single day. Is that not the case?
Sheesh. Then why the hell did they do it in the first place...
Also, agree on Double Rainboom. The second half of it works, but the entire Ponyville half is agonizing to sit through.
I can't watch Snowdrop either. It's like an Ayn Rand book where the main character babbles on in tract format for an hour, and it isn't even clear to me what she's lecturing me on other than "hay it's okay to be blind and trying is all that matters" or something.
Just me? Really? Okay.
4549582
The post on the site said it was because fanfics kept getting bumped to the top every time they updated and people were sick of it, so I guess that's the closest we'll get to an official reason.
4549556
To be fair, back around seasons 2 and 3, back when the show was still controversial, the four most heard of fanfics outside the fandom were Cupcakes, Fallout: Equestria, Rainbow Factory, and My Little Dashie. Of the four, Cupcakes and Rainbow Factory had the most circulation, mainly because of the shock value and tons of animations and reaction videos. If the news or soccer moms caught the slightest whiff of staff reading fanfics, with those being the big names, the controversy would've been ridiculous. With fan art and comics, it's easy to just flash up some innocent high quality work and call it the staff appreciating their fans, especially if they showed some pieces made by kids.
With fan fiction, especially because at the time the general idea most people had were Fifty Shades of Gray, bad Sonic fics, and My Immortal, it's much harder to do. Since fics take much longer to read, they can't really convince people who won't look into it themselves that fanfics can be so much more than bad Sonic fics or porn, and it's much harder to justify it as being from fans, which would either make it seem like the writers are reading weird porn from creepy adults or crap written by 7 year olds (on a side note, apparently 7 year olds can be incredibly skilled musicians, artists, dancers, and cooks, but the idea of a skilled child writer is next to impossible...). To anyone who reads fanfics, it's painfully obvious that the writers have read some of them, but I can easily see Hasbro wanting to kill a potential controversy before it can bite them in the ass.
Also, 4549542, my inner Ratatouille fan wants to punch you. I mean, you're not wrong, but still. And ouch.
4549627 As Remi would say: "Just because you think you can, doesn't mean you should." In addition, to quote Ego: "Not anyone can cook (write) but a great (writer) cook can come from anywhere."
As for the fic stuff... the point is, that people could've skipped it just as easily, and trust me, if people went in, they would have found it. "No fan fiction" was an optional mode, not something that was on automatically.
4549631
I definitely think the no fanfic mode thing was stupid, I was saying why I think the show staff officially don't read fanfics. I actually didn't know about the mode until I saw the post this morning as I just recently started using the site, though I did notice the very awkward not fan fiction tag on like 95+% of the posts. Then again, at this time of night, my posts are nowhere near as coherent as I think they are. That Ratatouille part at the end was supposed to be a joke but I have no clue if it came out that way.
Honestly, how strict and inconsistant they were is a big part of why I kind of gave up on writing fanfiction. I felt like I couldn't get noticed without a site like them, but I couldn't help but see the criticisms of me for using the wrong kind of dash and compare it with the stuff still listed, like my little dashie, that's just... awful on every level, and feel like I was being treated unfairly by someone who was overly critical. Worse still, I gave up on trying to use them to find stories, because while they made sure it was technically good, it seemed to me that none of the reviewers gave a shit about story content or themes or ideas or anything else. I'd see stories get passed over for months that were brilliant and amazing and thought provoking, while within days the latest garbage by the numbers "tear jerking" crap made it to the front page for the hundredth time.
It's like a microcosm of working in publishing, I suppose.
I was under the impression that it was cuz a fair amount of people hated reading. Well, it's easier to listen to pony tunes, watch pony videos, and gaze upon pony artz n comics (it's reading, but pictures, so it r k
). Reading is hard. Like, stick your average joe highschool dropout in front of some essay-esque blogpost analyzing some aspect of the show and watch if he doesn't crumble into some dissicated, mummified piece of human beef jerky out of sheer boredom.
<_<
>.>
His eyes prolly dried out from eye strain. Just staring at that first word, his mind reeling from a state that is beyond intimidated. Unable to go on cuz there's so. Many. Effing. Werds. Iz scary. Easier to TL;DR and go watch Flufflepuff do a silly, yes? Way less work. Or stick him in front of some pony game. There's gotta be some of those with a decent narrative out by now. I mean, it's been almost seven years.
It takes a special kind of person to put up with all these walls of words.
Hey... maybe we can be like Twilight in Friendship is Witchcraft and give away fanfic printouts instead of candy? Actually, that might get little kids to hate us. I mean, fanfic vs chocolate... I think chocolate wins. Solution: appropriate another holiday. Like... I dunno... Valentine's Day? Instead of Valentine's cards, give out fanfic... sure... flawless...
In conclusion, the fanfic side of the fandom are eye masochists, a fair amount of people are made of suck, fail, and AIDS, and we should teach kids from an early age that reading is fun and Call of Duty and Halo are not relatively as fun.[/bitterness]
Finally. What a load.
4549582
I am perfectly willing to accept that A) it was long enough ago that I don't remember the actual reason, and B) there never really was an 'official' reason (by which I mean, there were multiple), so it's anyone's guess what the case was. :B I just know that I've harbored resentment for pretty much everything for the last six years because of this.
Is this the actual genuine real reason people hate EqD?
4549738 I wouldn't say so? I mean, this is an aggravating thing to anyone that writes but I'm not sure if it's enough for people to hate on EqD
4549590
I don't really find this surprising. Plushie and crafter make objects, and a physical asset is normally worth more than a digital asset, monetarily anyway.
Good. Not that I go there much beyond the forum anyway. My only real artistic talent is writing, so it felt almost doubly insulting.
4549410
Heck, I was one of those people, and for the first story that got up I did see a pretty good uptick in viewcount, but that was back when Season 2 was premiering on TV. The later ones? Maybe 30 extra views. Though I suppose given the topic of the bulk of my stories I'm equally to blame on that one
4549806 If you go to my latest story, click "statistics", and check the incoming link counts, you'll see it has 412 views, and 292 incoming links from EQD. That means that even with 1400+ followers and some time in the immature featured box, I still got half my views from EQD.
4549653 I caught the joke, I just love quoting Ratatouille too
But yeah, show staff is not supposed to read fics. Whether they do or not maybe is up for debate. They just can't legally admit to doing it. And even if the "FIM staff can't read fics" is one of the reasons, it's still not a valid one to set it up like they did: the updates are basically just a picture and every new story added has a large "STORY" at the title. They don't have to read anything, just scroll past it.
4549677
So next Valentine's Day, yamgoth is going to stand outside an elementary school and give kids valentines with fan-fiction stories in them. Hey, you might even get your picture in the paper, yg!
4549806 It is—sadly—I think a big part of why EqD doesn't have nearly as much fan fiction as before. Whether the pre-readers there were too harsh or not becomes irrelevant if there are less stories to approve, less people reading them and an easy way to dismiss them.
4549621 Nah, Snowdrop was trying so hard to tug my heartstrings it disgusted me.
4549821
Well, I wouldn't say it was the PRs being too harsh, was more how TCB was so polarizing, the comment sections inevitably devolved into insults and invoking Godwin's Law in short order
4549820
"But... but occifer. I was only trying to get the little kiddies to read My Little Dashie. That's all I was doing. Seriously, buddy. That's all I was doing."
My Little Dashie: the gateway
drugfanfic4549826
Snowblind is better. It teaches that being rich is the crowning achievement in life. Oh, and that bullies don't necessarily come from some abusive past to turn them into them into who they are, but are sometimes just terrible, terrible people. Oh, and that you should hate clowns with unyielding passion. Snowdrop teaches us that... blind? Actually, I'm gonna go with the moral at the end was intended for Luna to learn. Let go of the past or whatever.
Wonder what would've happened if she was Snowdeaf
Should've made her a pony Helen Keller, actually. Both blind and deaf. That would tug on heartstrings so hard it would induce technicolour vomiting in the audience. Totally not contrived at all. Iz legits. It's the power of escalation.
4549677
*chuckle* I have the opposite problem. I started reading very young, I've collected a veritable library of reading material, and I'm working to rediscover my old love of gaming to dodge a borderline obsessive-compulsive need to finish what I start reading that has been playing merry hell with my sleep cycle.
(That said, I was never big on FPS games. Mainly puzzle, platformer, and RTS.)
I forgot EqD existed, to be honest. I had seen the way they reviewed fanfics and the general flow of BS that they always caused and rippled out to other sites that I just wrote them off as being largely pointless. I'll stick to this site for anything pony related.
To be honest, I lost faith in EqD as a Fan Fiction Publishing platform YEARS ago. For a long time now, since I joined this site specifically, I have considered them a secondary source for readership; non-critical and a nice boost at best. 'No-Fanfic-Mode' was just them making a statement. "We value art and music and animation! Those weird, shipping, writers can languish in the shadows!" Yes, I understand that they were getting tons of stories to approve and the backlog must have been massive, but they decided to make an exclusion option instead of a nightly post or two for new and/or updated works.
When I submitted Mezza Voce I received a somewhat back-handed compliment from a pre-reader which, essentially said "I wanted to hate your story and deny submission, but your writing is technically sound with but a few niggling errors. If I failed it, then it would look bad on me as a pre-reader and I'd probably be veto'd by the others. Have this quote about it being a nice, unassuming waste of time and be on your way."
So yeah, I just saw this rant because I've been busy with IRL and couldn't check my feeds. >> Good riddance to No FanFic Mode, but the damage has long since been done: The wider community doesn't see fan fiction as a valid form of expression and what EqD did was to validate that sentiment and make it practically gospel/law.