The Gone With the Wind approach to shipping; or Why I don't like FlutterDash · 4:05am Aug 15th, 2012
Most of this was written as a response to a comment by Bad Horse asking me why I dislike FlutterDash. At his recommendation I decided it deserved a blog post in it's own right, so I expanded it some. This is just how I ship, how I like to read romance. Other opinions are just as valid.
Let's start with the Gone With the Wind approach to shipping. For those of you who don't know the plot of Gone With the Wind, Scarlett O'Hara is a strong, shrewd, manipulative woman who seems to everyone else to be a sweet southern belle. She falls in love with a hopelessly romantic southern gentleman, Ashley Wilkes. When Ashley refuses her in order to marry someone else, Scarlett refuses to let go of him and spends the next several years doing everything she can to get and stay close to him. During that time, she meets Rhett Butler, a strong, shrewd, manipulative man who falls in love with her and supports her every scheme to keep her family safe and make herself rich during and after the American Civil War, despite knowing that she's pining after Ashley (who would never approve of any of the things she does.) In the end (spoiler for an eighty year old story), Scarlett realizes that Ashley could never understand her or offer her the support that Rhett can, but Rhett is so sick of her mooning over Ashley that he leaves her. (Also, go watch the movie. It's awesome. So is the book, but the book is long.)
In short, the Gone With the Wind approach to shipping says that characters who don't have some common ground are never going to be able to truly understand or support each other. They might love each other, but that's not going to be enough because they will someday have to make decisions that pit their core values against those of the one they love.
I'm not a big believer in opposites attract. I think that most relationships have some amount of opposition, but I think there has to be something at the core, and I'm not talking about love. A shared outlook on life, or a shared passion, or a shared dedication to something have to be there to keep love strong. There has to be someplace where two (or more) partners meet and build from. Compromise is always important, but there has to be a part of the relationship where neither party has to compromise.
So ships I like are AppleDash (where they share interests, as well as an attitude of confronting issues with strength and courage,) ScootaDash (where they share a passion for flying and a strong but playful attitude,) TwiDash (a passion and drive in their respective fields,) TwiJack (common sense and stability,) FlutterMac (gentleness and a low key approach to life,) and RariShy (a romantic outlook and shared interest in fashion.)
Towards the bottom of my list are RariJack, as well as most Pinkie ships. I find it really hard to ship Pinkie, because I feel like it's a core part of her character that nopony else sees the world the same way that she does. She has interests in common with Dash and AJ, but not in the passionate way that I feel would make them a connecting point. Someone was recently writing a Braeburn/Pinkie fic, and that might be the closest I've seen to a ship I like for Pinkie. They share an over-the-top exuberance and a passion for their communities.
So those are not ships I enjoy, but the ship I really dislike is FlutterDash.
That's because not only do I think FlutterDash wouldn't work, I think it would actually be a destructive, unhealthy relationship. Dash and Fluttershy have completely different outlooks, enjoy completely different things, and have completely different goals, but more importantly they can't be honest with each other. Fluttershy has trouble being openly honest with anypony due to her hatred of confrontation, and Fluttershy is the one pony with whom Dash will avoid confrontation, or at least hate herself for confronting. So a FlutterDash relationship is one where they can never let themselves have a fight, or talk honestly about their problems if there's a risk of a fight. At least in RariJack and TwiPie when one or both of them gets tired of compromise they'll be sure to let each other know it. A FlutterDash relationship could go on for a long time with one of them feeling like they have to keep giving in and not being willing to say anything.
This is not to say that any of those relationships, even ones I like, would be Twue Wuv. I don't really believe in Twue Wuv, but most other ships seem workable to me, at least for a while. Any ponies can fall in love, but I need more than that to root for a relationship.
Dear God, Emily, with the long entries? Okay... hold on...
Okay. Seriously. You need more Flutterdash in your life. (Trollestia strikes again!)
While I agree with that which you are saying (as I agree with most things you say), I will say that your hatred for this relationship is sorta funny. (look at my avatar... LOOK AT IT)
We are talking about magical pastel colored equines.
I do see things that could break apart any relationship between pairings. Yes, Dash and Shy are pretty much polar opposites, and the "opposites attract" thing is entirely stupid. But people who like to dream can see this as a pair because why?
Magical. Pastel. Colored. Equines.
And we love them so very much that we can do this. This pairing is actually quite brilliant. In a way it's challenging. How could you bring these two together? Sisterly love? By finding they do have things in common? Consider this-
an old 50's sitcom, where the man of the house comes home from work and settles down with his loving wife, who, though she never gets to see much of, still loves him unconditionally. They have a nice chat, have dinner with the kids, blah blah blah.
Today's relationship standards, that would never get by. But thinking about it that way, I can honestly say I have no idea what the buck I'm talking about anymore.
I'll just leave it at "I'm okay with Flutterdash"
Good day.
-Church
.......sems legit. I cant really say that I agree or not as I really prefer straight ships. But I can understand AppleDash and RariShy due to their interests.
You hit the nail on the head with this. I think I'll point people who ask why I don't like RariJack or FlutterDash to this because you've done an excellent job pointing out the reasons why they don't work in my mind. It would seem that we are of the same opinion regarding most ships.
288230
Ah, but the man and the woman in the sitcom DO share something, a dedication to the kind of lifestyle portrayed. For what happens when one of them loses that connection, look at the movie Pleasantville.
And yes, we're talking about magical colored ponies. But we're also writing stories that explore the emotions of magical colored ponies, Mr. FIM-Meets-Existential-Angst (and I mean that with much love for your existential angst
.)
As I said, it's just my opinion. To me, FlutterDash is emotional grimdark, and I react the same way I react to grimdark. I just wanted to explain why, past "I really don't like FlutterDash."
288256
I have no problem with straight ships, I don't discriminate, but preferring a ship based on gender is weird to me. And there aren't a lot of male characters who have enough characterization to ship them; Big Mac, Braeburn, Fancy Pants. . . that's about it. I like FlutterMac, I like Pinkie and Braeburn, and I could ship Fancy Pants with Rarity or Fluttershy.
But take a character like Soarin', for example. All we know about him in canon is "Wonderbolt, likes pie." A fanfic author could write him in such a way that I could see him connecting with Dash or AJ (I loved It's Always Sunny in Fillydelphia, an AJ/Soarin' fic), or they could write him in a way that I wouldn't. So I can't really say I ship SoarinDash or AJ/Soarin', because I don't really know who Soarin' is. He might as well be an OC for the most part.
Honestly i find Rarijack to be funny. I think that even though it wouldn't work out, they would get along better than Flutterdash because they are very open about their criticisms for each other. On the other hand, I loathe both Flutterdash and Dashiepie with the unmitigated fury of a thousand suns, though I really have no idea why, considering that I enjoy other unrealistic pairings such as Twipie. On a semi-related note, I actually love Octascratch, once again for no obvious reasondl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/misc_Bonbon_OMG_LOVE.png
288291
Glad I could help.
288382
I feel the same way about DashiePie that you do about RariJack- I think it's hilarious, but I can't imagine it actually working as a relationship. But I'm glad we can agree on FlutterDash.
I've never read any OctaScratch, but I think it would be a really interesting ship. I would imagine that they do have a passion for music in common, which is no little thing. So they're two characters who are almost opposites, except for one uniting force. I could ship it.
just made this from a random OctaScratch pic i found. hope it works
a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/338238_512105152137277_165867158_o.jpg
288394
Yeah, from the moment I first found out about shipping (I'm a hopeless romantic) I have disliked Flutterdash, I don't think it can work out and I just dislike it
I simply must agree. While originally I loved Fluttershy most, it took only one or two fics to change my mind. I have a rather large endearment of Applejack, and while I don't fanboy Rainbow Dash, it is my favorite shipping. I'm more a straight pair kind of person, but when the subject matter is based primarily on 6 girls, and has so few drawn out Colts, it's really difficult to see much else. I myself only really read Dash if it involves Scoot or Applejack. It just makes sense. *nods* I'm currently sitting in line waiting for "Best Young Flyer" to finish. Tis the only good Scoot/Dash I've come across and I rather like the flow. In any case. I still concur to the point. FlutterDash just doesn't add up so well. Cheers to AppleDash though!
In that case, death to the bygones
288420
Am I missing something? I'm not sure I follow.
288416
I actually have the next chapter of Best Young Flyer open right now, and am switching between screens. Sorry for the delay, I've had real life stuff. If there's no more real life stuff you can expect it in the next day or so, it's that close to finished.
288416
I just don't like Dashaloo, cause fillies. But I share your love of Appledash, and you should know that Dash is shipped with everything, so you exclude a literal shit-ton of fics (if they were printed on paper) on the basis of Dash being shipped with x in that fic (for a fan of straight shipping there is always Soarin/Dash (can't figure out good combo name (parenthesisception)) but Soarbrae is my OTP with Soarin)
288431
Yeah, it should be noted that I only ship ScootaDash aged up, as in Best Young Flyer. Of course, Best Young Flyer is one of the few aged up ScootaDash fics, so it might put some people off to just say that I ship it.
288425 Honestly, should you ever follow anything I ever say?
288445
Probably not, but I try. Celestia help me, I try.
288436
well that's reassuring, I got tinyurl'd into reading Scootaloo's love for Pain by my boyfriend who made a bet with me that I couldn't read it completely. I won the bet, but i wish I hadn't
288456
I haven't read it, and I'll take your implied word that I don't want to.
288474
If you treasure anything in life don't read it! I punched my boyfriend in the nuts for it, and I don't know nor do I want to know how he found it, he doesn't even read fanfics.
I hate RariJack with a passion.
My mind views it as Rarity stealing Applejack from other shippings. In every RariJack fic,(not that I read many) When they show Rarity and Applejack in a relation and Dash single, then my mind goes like this: "See Rarity, see what you have done. Now Dash is gonna die alone because AJ would've been perfect for her. What's wrong with Fluttershy? Or Spike for that matter. GET YOUR HOOVES OF OFF APPLEJACK!!"
interesting, my OTP is twipie.
I think of this way; their worldviews aren't opposite, but complementary. Twilight is well read and logical, but lacks a lot of real life experiences, and has trouble connecting the dots. Pinkie is fairly naive as well, not exactly what one would consider "book smart", but can make abstract connections better than any of the other mane six.
Together, they can compensate for the other's weaknesses, and become a team. They also have the capacity to get on each other's nerves, and that just makes any story more interesting
288793
There's a lot to be said for couples who can compensate for each others weaknesses and work as a team. I just feel like they need a place in a relationship where both people can entirely be themselves, a way of making a decision or handling tough situations that both of them think of as their way of doing it. Otherwise every challenge and decision becomes a question of "who's way do we do this?", with someone "winning" and someone else "losing." That's a lot of stress to put on a relationship in the long run just in terms of little questions like "where do we go to eat?", and when there's an important question like "should we move someplace else?" or "should we have kids?" with high stakes who backs down? What if they were wrong?
That's just how I see it.
288654
So the only reason you dislike RariJack is that it splits up AppleDash? Why don't you feel that way about TwiDash or PinkieDash or AppleShy?
288817 I'd say it's not about splitting up AppleDash, it's about splitting up an AJx??? shipping to create a shipping where she would be miserable (I honestly can't picture AJ being in love with Rarity or them being close to eachother for a long period of time without getting on eachothers nerves). TwiDash and PinkieDash, I can understand because they have similarities. AppleShy could work but I have yet to figure out how exactly. They both appreciate nature, AJ is a real down to grounds earth-pony and Fluttershy is living her life like an earth-pony but that's about it (as far as I can figure it out).
Yeah, I agree with most of what you've said here. I used to love FlutterDash (and I still kind of do), but after watching Hurricane Fluttershy, I think that there's more of a sisterly bond between the two.
I agree. I love to read fics about the sisterly friendship between Fluttershy and Dash but I think that it wouldn't work for them to be each other's 'special somepony', they would just drive each other crazy and it would probably break them apart on bad terms or have them be passive-aggressive towards each other like you said. Also I'm probably a minority that actually believes Dash to be straight but even so if forced to chose a female shipping for her I would pair her with Applejack because of their similarities.
And I agree that I don't believe there is an OTP with Pinkie as well I just can't picture her having more than a platonic relationship with anyone. (And TwiPie would never work out in the end despite being so popular in the fandom)
But of course my favorite ship is Scratchtavia which are two characters that haven't even met in-show and would realistically speaking probably tear each other apart after about a week of living together but it's still my OTP dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/shrug_Rainbow_Dash.png
Most shipping is basically 'screw logic, they look cute together'
*weeks and weeks later*
So a FlutterDash relationship is one where they can never let themselves have a fight,
Didn't fluttershy fight with Rainbow dash in The Great Dragon Migration? She literally resorted to physical means to get what she wanted (or rather, get out of what Rainbow Dash wanted from her) after having a argument with eachother.
441329
I will totally give you that, but I'd argue that it was more because of Fluttershy's pathological fear of dragons.
Say that Dash wanted to move to Cloudsdale to become a Wonderbolt, and wanted Fluttershy to come with her. It's a life that would make Fluttershy miserable- she would have to give up her animals, fly everywhere, and be around loud, sporty Wonderbolts all the time. If I thought that Fluttershy would react like that, flat out telling Dash no and being willing to end the relationship rather than letting Dash talk her into something that would make her unhappy, it would put the relationship back in RariJack territory- something that I don't think would work past that, but not psychologically damaging.
(And once again, this is something that Fluttershy and Dash could compromise on, but what keeps it from being a ship I like is that there's nothing they wouldn't have to compromise on. I can't think of anything substantial where they could both have what they wanted at the same time.)
Personally, I ship Flutterpie. Mostly because the images of it are adorable, but if you really think about it, Pinkie is known to adjust her personality depending on the situation. She can be caring and gentle one moment, and off the wall crazy the next moment. I think what would make it work is that they wouldn't push each other to do anything, Fluttershy pretty much couldn't if she tried and canonically, Pinkie has never really forced Shy to do something she didn't want to do. It's just interesting. It's also canon that Pinkie is really a guardian for her, which is something I think Shy really wants in a relationship. Someone to protect her, make her happy, and allow her to do what she wants without having to resort to physical violence. I've always hated Flutterdash due to the fact that none of this would really happen. It's either Dash's way or the highway and Dash needs someone who will fight with the same force so that way both can get their way. Such as Appledash. If anything, I agree with you up to the "Opposites attract" opinion. I think they do as long as there is some sort of connecting point, or behaviors that the other can still find good for them. Going back to my favorite, Flutterpie. Loud party pony, quiet timid pony, loud pony protective and quiet when needed, it works.
TL;DR Flutterpie works canonically. Flutterdash never will.
TL;DR2
Side note: I was tardy to the party.
I have to say, I agree with everything you've said here, right down to the "actively liked" ships and "actively disliked" ships, and for the same reasons.
Of course, no amount of reasoning can change my friend's mind that PinkieDash is the best ship, and the FlutterDash kiss 'obviously happened'.
...I think he does it just to annoy me.
773201
I actually wrote the fic "A Very Long Day" just for people who believe in the FlutterDash kiss. It spawned The AppleDash Project, and was rewritten to be the last chapter.
As for PinkieDash, I think it can be hilarious to read, but in the long term. . . has your friend seen the looks Dash gives Pinkie on the show?
Hmm...I guess I oughta give that a read. Not because I believe the kiss, but because I don't believe the kiss.
RE: the pinkiedash thing, is that the "Pinkie Pie, you are so random" looks you mean?
777980
It's more the "I'm about five seconds from punching you in the face." looks, like this one, that convince me it wouldn't work.
gyazo.com/616e2ef33340e19cf3f5910aadbcc60c.png
Oh celestia, Pinkie and her horn
822823
I'm open to being convinced by a FlutterDash fic. If you think you can show me the common ground they can connect on, and how they could spend time happily together, and things like that, that idea could fly. But like I said, even if they could confront each other, it only brings it in line with TwiPie and RariJack to me, which are still ships I don't like. Unless I'm totally missing something about Fluttershy and Dash's characters and how they connect, which I'd love for someone to show me. But I can't buy a FlutterDash fic based on opposites attract, "they're so good for each other, they each have what the other lacks" thinking. I need common ground.
822884
Well, yes and no. When I saw your reaction to TwiDash, I did giggle because it's how I feel about FlutterDash. And that's based on the way I like to read about relationships, so it's totally personal preference.
However, I wrote a follow up piece to this, How to recruit people to a ship, where I basically admit that you could tell a FlutterDash story that I would like. It would just have to stretch canon. I used the example of making Fluttershy secretly a huge fan of the Wonderbolts, even if she would never want to fly like them. With one little detail like that, suddenly Fluttershy and Dash can connect about something in a way similar to the way Dash and AJ can connect over sports. Canon doesn't give me anything like that, but a good fanfic author could if they wanted to.
I come from the same thread that 822823 came from, being of the opposite persuasion of said individual. Gotta say, you pretty much hit the nail on the head here as far as I'm concerned. I don't loathe Flutterdash, and I think it could work out if it's handled correctly, but more often than not I feel it would be a destructive relationshiop.
Also I agree about Pinkie ships--PinkieDash and TwiPie in particular would end in homicide:
1. Twilight would spend all their time together trying to work out how Pinkie ticks, and it would drive her absolutely insane.
2. Dash... well. Dash can handle Pinkie in small doses. When Pinkie overstays her welcome, she starts getting looks like the one you posted here: 778005.
In either case the pink-less party would be completely miserable and/or insane.
As a RariDash shipper who just clicked on this link because my fingers force me to click on every link I see, I have just this to say.
...
...
Actually, I have nothing to say, since I find myself liking pretty much any Dash pairing anybody throws my way. So, uh... hi, bookplayer
823737
Hi!
RariDash is one of those ships I have no real opinion about. I could see it working, actually, almost exactly the same as Gone With the Wind, with Rarity as Scarlett and Dash as Rhett. Rarity being a successful designer, secretly snarky and unimpressed by society ponies but trying to maintain her position, while Dash is a Wonderbolt and totally doesn't care, and influences her to stay true to herself.
That being said, that's a bit of a stretch and involves some headcanon adjustment, so it's not one of my top ships. But I've got no real dislike of it.
The amount of common ground for FlutterDash is not exceptionally low. Most of the examples that you name for other ships are quite vague.
Big Mac for example has practically no personality, so every character trait you were to assign to him would be already stretching canon. Eyup/Enope is just a running gag, but even if you would derive a personality from that, he would be uninterested or careless rather than gentle, soft spoken or even shy.
Where did you get the idea from, that Fluttershy had an interest in fashion? And for the Spa-meetings: Fluttershy likes to relax sometimes, Rainbow Dash does that, too. Maybe she does it on clouds or sunbathing, but the intersection is just as great. Prim and proper is definitely not Fluttershy.
Some aspects of a character may look like common ground, but they really aren´t. Twilight and Rainbow Dash both have drive in their respective fields? There is nothing to go from when those fields do not overlap in the slightest. On top of that Fluttershy has passion, too in what she does, namely helping others, especially animals. Her goal might not be as defined as Rainbow Dash´s, but she has one.
Fluttershy for example manages and trains a bird choir, and we have seen Rainbow training and coaching groups of Ponies on several occasions. There is actually more intersection than with Twilight.
If there are two ponies in the show constantly seen working together its Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash (e.g. secret of my excess, crystal empire, spike at your service...).
There is sufficient to go from when you are willing to look deep enough. (As you are with all the other ships).
Just to name some: Weather and animals are both part of nature. Interacting, and to some extend managing and controlling it, is a big part of both their lives .
Dash does show interest in animals, at least in some she accepts as cool, and even there she is ready to deviate from her supposedly chosen ground.
An interest in traveling and discovering new things is a trait they could share, Dash is adventurous, and for Fluttershy it´s essentially the reason why she wants to attend the Gala.
Applejack however would be the prime example for a partner to rope Rainbow down. Fluttershy is more of a constant than a burden, and is theoretically not even bound to a specific location.
Rainbow Dash clearly shows performance anxiety, she deals with it in an entirely different way than Fluttershy, but the root of both their fears might be exactly the same.
Common ground can not only exist in shared interests or activities. Shared time, common origin and common abilities (e.g. flight) can also serve as such. FlutterDash excels in that category.
Some ground can only hold one partner, sharing it would be destructive. It´s not opposites attract, but sometimes balance is simply better.
Two partners in a relationship, both being dominant, stubborn and competitive leads to endless conflict, not ground for the relationship to grow.
Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash would not clash in that way. Both are comfortable in their role Rainbow leading (but not oppressing, as clearly seen in the show), and Fluttershy being led and protected.
Conflict between Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash is shown on multiple occasions. And while Fluttershy´s habit to run off may look like conflict avoidance, it actually solves these conflicts. In Hurricane Fluttershy she takes her time to think and comes back, while Dash encourages her all the way but does not press too hard. Before the Dragon migration it is a case of ‘no means no’ Fluttershy asserts herself over Dash and gets her will. Just the opposite happens in ‘Green isn’t your color’ where Fluttershy is unwilling to confront Rarity and external intervention is necessary. In fact Dash seems to be the only one Fluttershy is able to speak up to.
Both display a clear will to adapt and develop. Both have been successful in this, and since they are developing towards each other, they could both help the respective other in this and find some further things they share. (Note, that this development is there even without a relationship to work for.)
Both can subtly break through each others shell, (and have been the only ones to really do so).
True, Rainbow sometimes pushes a little hard, but she has to, to get results. And since Fluttershy wants to change Dash is acting in her favour.
Angel is taking on part of this role at the moment, a relationship that is appreciated by Fluttershy, despite of the negative side of Angel´s Character. A side that Rainbow does NOT share. She is never shown abusing Fluttershy for her own advantage.
A lot of this could originate from them being childhood friends and the unrivaled trust and knowledge of each other that comes with it.
Dash knows Fluttershy´s potential, and Fluttershy knows how to take Rainbow´s brashness.
"Haute couture, please." Fluttershy's obvious knowledge of dress design and "freaky" knowledge of sewing comes up in Suited for Success. Combined with her spa visits specifically with Rarity, I think there a basis for shared interests there.
The connecting point there is the drive itself. Rainbow Dash and Twilight understand the drive of ambition, if they realize it they can support each other through Wonderbolt auditions and showing off spells for the Princess, knowing how it feels to be preforming for your idol, both in the exhilaration and excitement, and the nerves that come with having your whole future on the line.
A perfect example of what I'm saying. Yes, they're both training there, but their methods are exactly opposite. Dash acts as a rough coach, something I think AJ would have more in common with (and probably be able to help her temper while still understanding where she's coming from. I've always wanted to write a fic about AJ and Dash coaching the CMC at some sport.) Fluttershy tells birds gently that they're a tiny bit off. If Fluttershy and Dash tried to work together, it would implode, or they would have to compromise.
I'm italicizing that word, because it was the point of the essay. Couples should compromise, but there need to be places where they don't have to. I hate opposite attract relationships that are nothing but compromise.
I do agree with this. There is no doubt that Dash and Fluttershy share a close relationship. Just not one I see as being a good, romantic relationship in the long term. I think it's better for them to remain almost-sisters. Sisters don't have to try to build a life together, but they can still love each other.
But for Fluttershy it's a passion, for Dash it's a 9-5 job. Dash doesn't go out and mess with weather for fun.
I wouldn't call that an interest, so much as agreeing that there are some cool animals in the world, something the rest of the mane six had already done. Picking Tank is no more reason for FlutterDash than AJ having Winona is for AppleShy.
Butterfly migrations. That's Fluttershy's idea of discovering new things. Once again, they could compromise. But there's that word again.
Fluttershy has an entire song about how much she loves the ground. I actually think this would cause more tension than in AppleDash. In AppleDash, there's no expectation that Dash will give up the Wonderbolts or that AJ will go with her. The is the one major compromise that Dash and AJ have to make, on how to live their lives, but I think they have enough in common otherwise to deal with it. Fluttershy, on the other hand. . . would she move back to Cloudsdale for Rainbow Dash? She could, but would she be happy there without her animals? Would she be able to give up Dash, knowing that she has a choice, to make herself happy?
I agree with that, somewhat. All of the mane six show some development, regardless of how you ship them. I wouldn't say they're developing towards each other, but rather toning down their character traits. If anything, Fluttershy is developing towards Twilight, and Dash is developing towards Applejack. I'm not saying that in a shippy sense, I don't ship TwiShy, but Applejack is kind of toned down Dash, and Twilight is kind of more assertive Fluttershy.
Here, let me illustrate with Hurricane Fluttershy:
Dash wants Fluttershy to help. She knows Fluttershy can do it. But Fluttershy doesn't want to, so Dash leaves her alone. Is Dash happy to do this? No. She's disappointed and frustrated.
Fluttershy sees this, and decides to help anyway. Is Fluttershy happy to do this? Maybe a little, but she's still terrified and easily frustrated.
Now, in this instance it works out because it happens that they need the little bit more that Fluttershy has in her. But a lifetime of interactions like this? Of *sigh*"No, that's okay, Fluttershy. Really." and "I have to do it. I have to make myself do it or Rainbow will be disappointed."
One or the other will constantly be either disappointed, or stressed by trying to keep up.
And it's here that the closeness and childhood friendship become damaging, because those things make it too hard to admit the truth. There's a great AppleDash fic, D-I-V-O-R-C-E, about what happens in AppleDash when the compromises get to be too much. But FlutterDash wouldn't have that. It would have them silently enduring and hating life. That's why I don't like FlutterDash.
827152
Okay, you need to chill out on this.
A) There are Pinkie ships that can work.
B) If you change the characters, and let them grow, any ship can work.
C) You've said yourself, your Pinkie shipping is based on your own headcanon. Other people can't read your mind, we have to go by the show or our own headcanon. The only way to convince people of your headcanon is to write a fic that shows it, popping up in comments anytime someone mentions Pinkie shipping is not going to do it.
I know you don't mean anything by it, but Pinkie shipping seems like it's gonna give you a heart attack!
827172
so yeah everyone got their own feelings on headcanon and how characters develop. again iam sorry for the outburst so no hard feelings? i deleted the comment to not start any flame wars that is the last thing i want in my time with this fandom.
Sorry for that rant i just hear that same thing time and time again. i know popping up like this isnt going to do anything. true it might give me a heart attack who knows
827299
There isn't one. It's based off how you like to read romance.
If you haven't noticed from my blog posts, and the massive survey I'm doing, I like to analyze things. "What" is no where near as important to me as "why." I've liked AppleDash, and those other ships, for a while. As I mentioned in the beginning of this blog post, Bad Horse asked me why I disliked FlutterDash, and so I dug into my brain and explained it to him (and everyone else who's asked me since.)
This is based off of analyzing ships I already liked, and ships I disliked, then trying to figure out what they had in common. I added into it other romances in stories I liked- Gone With the Wind became the prime example, but I also had in mind Little Women, Anne of Green Gables, Jane Eyre, Fried Green Tomatoes, various romances in Terry Pratchett books that I liked or didn't like, and shipping I did in other fandoms. Into the pot also went my own eleven year relationship with my husband, and this essay is just explaining what I came up with.
As for character interactions on the show, I see the friendly, casual, sometimes snarky thing that AJ and Dash have as much more likely to be a relationship. It's more how I treat my husband, and it's more how I tend to find couples funny and amusing in other works of literature and forms of media.
But really, I never said anyone had to agree with how I view things. Some people do, and they use my analysis of ships to explain it. If you ever look into your own reasons behind shipping, maybe other people will link to that. It's still only your views, just like these are mine.
827400
What I find funny about all of this is that TwiDash isn't even in my top three ships. . . it's one I like, but I much prefer AppleDash, TwiJack, and aged-up ScootaDash. The rest of those are just ships I'll look at if I'm bored, and I understand how they could work.
(Okay, I do have a soft spot for FlutterMac. Mac is gentle, he's kind, he's quiet, he's got common sense. . . a louder girl would brush him off whenever he tried to talk, the same way AJ does. But someone like Fluttershy would appreciate all that, and I think Mac would do everything in his power to make her happy for it. I know you disagree, but I really think it's a sweet little ship.)
Seriously, you've been polite the whole time, we're totally cool. We come at shipping from different angels, and that always interests me.
My point was that Dash choosing Tank shows something: there is more to her character than she lets on. And especially Fluttershy is able to bring it out. Is it so hard to imagine that she finds enjoyment in an activity with Fluttershy not as a compromise but as a real shared pastime?
You seem to have much lower standards for a lot of other pairings. I stay with my point regarding Twilights and Rainbows drive, there is so little you could pick anything. Just being able to relate to why someone strives for something doesn't make it fun to watch.
Fluttershy having a large vocabulary and deft hooves is also quite thin. Rarity is first and foremost a designer, not a seamstress. On top of that Fluttershy shows in suited for success, just like the other four, that fashion design isn't her thing and modeling...
I see much more difference between Applejack and Rainbow Dash or Fluttershy and Twilight than you seem to do. The point is not that they become suddenly the same, they both try to adapt some of the character traits the other has to abundance. Therefore they would be helpful for each other and be able to enjoy things the other does. (Like you can pick up and enjoy sports if you want to improve your fitness).
Between Applejack and Rainbow Dash I don't see many similarities except for the ones that would prove destructive in a relationship.
As for Hurricane Fluttershy: She overcame a huge childhood trauma that day, that would not be how an everyday argument would play out. And again, Rainbow Dash is the only Pony Fluttershy would NOT suffer in silence with.
Except for under Discord's spell Dash shows no special connection to Cloudsdale she does live on (or near) the ground now. If Fluttershy isn't already the reason for that, that should not be a problem. There is some sky everywhere.
Just because Dash has bigger goals doesn't mean she can not enjoy her current job. She does include weather-work in her routines, and I think I remember introducing herself as Ponyville's prime weather pony.
827593
I disagree.
ETA: I don't think we are going to agree on this. Rather than counter your points, you've said them, and they have not convinced me of anything, so let's let this drop? FlutterDash does not work with the way I enjoy reading relationships, based on their interaction on the show.
827593
I will leave you with this offer, though. This chapter of The AppleDash Project, Tough Ponies, pretty much shows A) how I think AJ and Dash would care for each other in their relationship, and B) how their common traits give them an understanding of each other that the others don't have of either of them.
It also keeps the traits I love about them both in tact (because I wrote it). They aren't mushy, or cute. They're ponies who like to be tough, who don't want to be seen as soft. Which is one of my favorite things about both of them, the reason they're two of my four favorite characters. Being someone who was a tomboy herself, and still likes to be one of the guys, I have a bad reaction to anything that turns tough girls into piles of mush.
And it does it in less than 2000 words.
If you have a FlutterDash story that will show me that, in less than 4000 words, I'll read it.
I never thought you could be convinced by arguments. Neither can I. But I think just as with me those have little to do with your dislike for the ship. I came from shipping Dash with everyone, but noticed that I enjoy Flutterdash the most. But that's a feelings thing, not a rational one. The reason may be some romantic ideals of me, that comply with FlutterDash. But then I actively increased my emotional involvement with that ship. It allows me to draw more from it, but as I side effect caused a solely irrational protectiveness for it, to the point where it feels bad seeing it "cheated on". But that's the nature of this, it is an emotional thing.
I still don't think your arguments hold water, I also don't think they are your reason for liking or disliking anything.
We both are to outspoken about our feelings/opinions of this ship, for the reasons only being rational ones.
827713
These are not my reasons for liking AppleDash best, I'll totally give you that. Those are far more personal, though I could explain those if I did feel like it. But, as I said to Jake in this comment: (827381) they are they reasons I came up with for why I like ships, when I was analyzing all the ships I like. (Which include some that break up AppleDash. In fact, in Best Young Flyer I literally gave Dash a failed romance with AJ in her past, to pair Dash with grown up Scootaloo.)
Looking at the ships I don't like: RariJack, FlutterDash, TwiPie, and other Pinkie ships, I came up with what they all have in common: They all expect characters with diametrically opposite personalities and very little in common to compromise for the sake of love.
So it just seems reasonable to suspect that I do not like that in ships. I actually wasn't a fan of TwiDash until I read Twilight's List, which showed me that they aren't diametrically opposite. I'm open to a FlutterDash fic doing that, but I just can't see it being done in character.
I'm sorry I leaked a mostly civilized shipping discussion (also referred to as 'heated brony fight') onto your blog here, bookplayer. You just summed up my feelings on Flutterdash perfectly and I had to link. I think we approach shipping in similar ways, where it's not so much how and why two characters get together (despite that being the vast majority of ship fics) as it is the how and why they stay together. The former can be written for any pairing with zero explanation; just say the characters have a mutual attraction. But that's not particularly compelling if the relationship is doomed to failure thanks to a complete and total lack of common ground. Since I don't want to spark another Flutterdash stampede, let's go with Trixieshy; that's just crazy enough that no one would try and defend it. Any and everything leading up to Fluttershy and Trixie getting together could be completely in character if you give the two a mutual attraction, but dear Luna is that ship gonna sink fast. That's not appealing to me and a writer would be hard pressed to write a Trixieshy that made any sort of sense at all.
Point being, why make my own arguments when you've already made them?