On spanking. (Black Eye) · 8:27pm Feb 20th, 2014
Welp, I'm just gonna sit back and brace myself for the fiery inferno I'm about to call down upon my head...
It's not a secret that Black Eye is my most controversial story on this site. Somehow, it's been so controversial that it's managed to get less favorable ratings than freaking Spike Wakes Up One Morning To Discover That He's Grown a Pair of Nipples On His Chest, which is by far the worst story I've ever written for MLP. In fact, I'd venture to say that Black Eye is actually one of my best stories despite the touchy subject matter. It's gotten its fair share of flames and people that weren't all that pleased with the way things ended up for Apple Bloom, but that was to be expected.
However, the story has also received some of the best and most constructive reviews I've ever seen, from both sides of the corporal punishment debate. One in particular was from a guy named Softy8088. In fact, it was his review that got me to really, seriously think about the way I'd approached the story from the start, with this sort of "corporal punishment apologetics" meaning hamfisted into it as some sort of pre-emptive defense against the inevitable flames I was going to receive. I did not fully realize just how badly I'd strayed into that realm until he brought it to my attention, and despite the fact that I disagreed with some of what he said, his comment was so valuable to Black Eye's development that I couldn't help but give it a thumbs up. I actually went back over it and added in a completely new ending, made Applejack less confident(as she should have bloody been from the beginning!), made slight edits to the actual spanking scene, and tried to remove as many of MY ideals from Applejack's character as I possibly could. As a result, I have a far superior story than I did before, and I have fellows like Softy8088 to thank for that.
Then... you get this shit.
I was on my secondary email yesterday and got a notification that, lo and behold, Black Eye had gotten a review from someone on fanfiction.net. I think, "Oh, goody! This should be interesting!"
Oh, it was. For all the wrong reasons.
Djkass chapter 1 . Feb 19
You make me feel literally sick so bad that I want to puke. Applejack would never do this, she actually knows how to be a parent pretty good in the show and she would never hit Apple bloom like you made her do it in this story! You made her out of character so that way you can hurt Apple Bloom. Obviously you don't know Hitting is tramatic to little kids and makes them more violent when they grow up, proven by psychology! I have proof too for you, because you got spankings when you were little and now you make stories about spanking Apple Bloom because your mad inside. I am sorry you got tramatized by your parents, but mine actually know how not to hit kids. Moms and Dads are lazy who spank their kids and they don't even care about tramatizing their kids, obviously for you. I feel sorry for you.
I think this review bothered me a little more than it should have. After all, it's not like he doesn't seem to have good intentions... I had planned on going on a week long hiatus from this place because of all the work I've had to get done IRL, but this dude/dudette... I just need to get this out of my system. I can take a little break from work.
I get this impression that a bunch of people seem to think I consider spanking as the "best thing" or a "necessary thing" for child rearing. That's absolutely not the case. I know plenty of guys and girls my age that were spanked as kids, and I know plenty that weren't. And guess what? They all turned out great!
There are kids that will benefit from it when it is applied in the right instances, particularly in cases where they flat out ignore other consequences and blatantly disobey. In these instances, it is sometimes only the threat of a spanking/an actual spanking that can manage to get their attention and put them in line. If there is a viable alternative to spanking that matches the severity of an intentional misdeed, then personally? I'd try and go with that. That doesn't mean there aren't instances where I'd consider corporal punishment to be preferable to other options, but it should only be used as either a last resort, or for severe misbehavior where the kid knew better beforehand.
There are other kids, however, where you have to be extremely careful. Kids have different temperaments, and not all will respond well to this sort of thing. It's up to the parents to make these sorts of realizations and respond accordingly. After all, parenting is not so much a science as it is a family by family study of trial and error and learning from mistakes, for both the parents and their children, and it's that struggle that makes it all worth it in the end.
For this story, specifically? The idea of corporal punishment just... worked. For farm ponies like Applejack, I felt like that type of discipline just fit their personalities and lifestyles. And I don't just mean that in the whole "country stereotype" way; I lived in the Southern USA for four years when I was a kid, and I knew kids that were on agricultural/semi-agricultural places that had to do exactly that. I knew many, in fact; it was common practice. And even though some people were not fans of the corporal punishment itself in the story, they still felt that the situation was believable, which is something I was going for.
And just as a quick note to people who said they felt really weird or uncomfortable after reading, or in the case of my latest review for the story, "feel literally sick so bad that I want to puke"... Imagine writing the thing. You have no idea how awkward and strange it felt to write that kind of scene; I felt like I was totally out of my element. But in order to make meaningful pieces and grow as a writer, I've got to step outside of my comfort zone; I did it with All That I Can Give, which was the first time I'd ever written sex into a story. I did it with Pinkie's Free Candy Van, which was my first real attempt at comedy and writing Pinkie's character in any capacity. I did it with You Lose Some, You Winsome, which deals with the touchy subject of bedwetting. So, in other words, I try to write about things that make me feel uncomfortable so that I can grow as a writer. If I don't do that? I'll stagnate. I'll never get any better.
Anywho... back off that tangent.
So, where am I going with all of this? Welp... I'm going to write a new oneshot story. It's going to deal with a very similar starting premise as Black Eye: Apple Bloom does something really bad, and she has consequences to face for it. The difference? Those consequences are not going to be the same. And I know that this story is not necessarily going to convince anybody that my opinion on spanking is not as black and white as they may believe, but I figured if some random dude/dudette was going to aggravate me with a patronizing and insulting review like that, then I'd might as well turn all of that negative energy into something productive. So there.
As soon as this week draws to a close, then I'll start working on... stuff. Yeah, stuff.
Hope that wasn't too long and pointless for y'all.
~Arwhale
I actually liked Black Eye, I think it was believable. I think it would be interesting to get a perspective of what happen to Diamond Tiara though, how Filthy Rich dealt with her.
1857108
That's not a bad idea. In fact, that's a really good idea... I just need some time to come up with enough of a story to flesh the idea out. I'll probably add it in as a separate chapter if I end up doing it... probably won't be for quite some time, though.
And I'm glad you liked the story. Believability was what I wanted, and I'm glad it worked for you.
Wellp, Black Eye was the first fic I read from you. I've been in some very similar situations about controversial topics. I have made no attempts at keeping my opinions on spanking secret, as right now three stories I've written involve it in some way, from clop to parenting to sexual discovery to married fantasies, and trust issues. I'm working on another one at the moment, which is far on the cloppy side though. Tehee.
I read the 'review' you got and... seriously? I haven't laughed that hard in ages. That person should not be commenting on anyone's writing before they graduate from fucking elementary school. I just wish his Moms and Dads would read what he wrote and put him over their lazy laps and administer some tramatization. Sorry, I just...
it was hilarious. Don't let flaming trolls like that kid get you down. He is, in a word, an idiot.
Like you said, a spanking is okay in some cases and totally not in others. People who advocate it showcase all the kids who are out of control. People who oppose it showcase all the traumatized adults. I personally believe a spanking is only okay if it is to prevent a child from endangering themselves or those close to them. If they played on the street, played with matches, knives or other tools, attacked someone physically, stuff like that. It should be ultimate tool in the parents toolbox of child rearing, the one that can and must be pulled out when it is absolutely vital that something never happens again. It should be the last resort, but it should be there. I agree that Apple Bloom got what she deserved for intentionally starting a fight and hurting both herself and others, be they bullies or not.
On the topic of disciplining a child, I also consider grounding someone the stupidest possible punishment imaginable. As if cutting a child from all social interaction outside school would be healthy for someone who is trying to learn how to function in society? A few days? Sure, that I can understand, especially if it comes with loss of privileged and such. But for weeks or even a month? That's ridiculous. If you asked a child which they preferred, a spanking that's over and done with, or a month of, well, nothing but school and sitting at home, I think they would choose the spanking. Another punishment I never understood was making a child do more chores at home. Sure, let's make doing normal housework into something that is only done when you're bad. Wonder why my apartment is always a mess?
So... I guess that's something like ten cents' worth of opinions. Let the haters hate and idiots write their reviews. You just keep on writing and making it epic.
Oh and yeah, Softy8088 is an awesome dude, but can be REALLY annoying as well. I'll take the good with the bad, though.
Back when I first read Black Eye, I was uncomfortable reading it.
Now, I'm still uncomfortable reading it, but it seems just... more real now with more uncertainty on Applejack's part.
When a story makes me feel something other then "Eh", I consider that story amazing.
Guess what I consider your story.
Considering I've written somewhere in the ballpark of like 60-70k words worth of spanking, I feel somewhat inclined to comment here.
Now, I'm sorta in the same boat as
185738, but I personally don't include a sexual aspect in the stories themselves; it's planned for a later clop, but I've never done spanking clop as of now. That doesn't mean I haven't written stories that were meant to be sexually appealing to me: I have a spanking fetish that I'm no longer trying to hide.
Now, the most successful fic on this site I've wrote was a spankfic that wasn't meant to be sexual, for me or anyone else, but as you know yourself, Arwhale, was marred with intensive controversy that you yourself helped rebuff. I get similar trolls/bronies that are -beyond- retarded on 4chan threads I make that are by no means attempting to take the issue seriously. Some people are just so adamant and close-minded, convinced that every fucking child can fall into the same categories and apply to all of their little studies, and that there is absolutely no place in the civilized world for spanking. THAT'S what sickens me, THAT'S what makes me 'literally sick so bad that I want to puke'. I always tell these morons that the world isn't black and white. No, it's not for every kid, it's certainly not for every crime, and there's billions of times where it's going to be inappropriate.
Black Eye? It didn't feel inappropriate. Even before the edit, I had no beef with Applejack's handling of the situation. It was justified, no if, ands, or buts. Apple Bloom wasn't even being entirely truthful to her sister in the beginning. And it was the quickest switching I've read, so it's not like it was a torturous experience. It was cute, it was sensible, it handled a serious scenario very well, even moreso now with the additional details about the father.
You'll get the same thing with clop. You could make something perfect length, with perfect details that appeal to even the most closeted cloppers on the site, but you'll always get one or two people that just do not stand for clop and don't want it in their perfectly controlled world.
So, yeah, don't let the trolls get to you, I've stopped letting them get to me, as I tend to ignore the comments now. GL with future fics (and read I'm Sorry, Sis: Sweetie Belle already!)
1857308
Yea, I think it would be good, give prospective on what happened on both sides. But it did have a good level of believably to it. I think it's just what would happen with Applejack and Apple Bloom in this kind of event, as hard as it was to read.