Chapter 2 - Rarity
Actually arranging a parley took quite a bit of work. I don’t know if Twilight never learned the spell to unleash the Royal Canterlot voice or if she simply considered it undignified for her and Rising to shout at each other from across Ponyville, but just because the town was under siege didn’t mean we had to completely put aside basic social conventions. If anything, they were more important now than ever. The more polite and reasonable we were, the better our chances of finding a diplomatic solution to this madness.
Running up a white flag was a simple enough matter, even if we had to take a minute to explain to Rainbow that a white flag didn’t signal surrender so much as a desire to negotiate. Not that I could fault her for the misunderstanding when quite a few films had made the same mistake—and I suspect that Rainbow, like far too many ponies, derived most of her knowledge of history and culture from the cinema. To be quite fair, wartime negotiations often included hammering out terms of surrender. However, if this Rising Fire thought we would be handing Twilight and Starlight over to her as part of the negotiations, she was quite mistaken.
While putting up the flag had been simple enough, that left us at a loss for how Rising would answer. Thankfully she didn’t leave us waiting for long; after a few minutes, I saw an all-too-familiar trail of smoke shooting towards the flagpole, and when it arrived it transformed into a scroll. I’d never seen one of the letters Spike sent off arriving in front of Celestia, but I rather strongly suspected the process was much the same.
I caught the scroll before it could fall off the tower and roll off to who knows where. The message was short and to the point, though at least it was all written in flowing, precise penmareship. Rising Fire would send an envoy to speak with us, though the location the lich had selected for talks caught me by surprise. Perhaps that had been the point, picking somewhere unexpected so we couldn’t set up an ambush. Whatever the case might be, I would hardly turn down the chance to speak with Rising’s envoy just because we were negotiating in an ice cream parlour instead of town hall.
Twilight insisted I bring along a squad of guardponies, and I couldn’t really fault her considering the circumstances. The walk through my hometown was nowhere near as pleasant as I was accustomed to. Where normally there would be happy ponies going about their business and stopping to chat with friends as they passed on the street, a palpable shadow now hung over the entire town. The streets were close to deserted, and the few ponies out on them were rushing about, presumably heading to our civil shelter or trying to get back home. The tension was thick in the air, like we were on the verge of a mass panic waiting for something to set it off.
I could only hope my parents and Sweetie had gotten to the castle or the shelter by now. Normally I would prefer they come to Twilight’s castle, but considering it would be the main target for Rising perhaps the shelter would be safer. While I still hoped I’d be able to negotiate with Rising’s envoy to keep things from escalating out of control, I would feel much better if I knew they were safe. Though I suppose my own family being safe really didn’t make very much difference. Everypony else I had ever known in Ponyville would still be in danger. It was the type of thing that could make a mare faint with worry, and while I sometimes like to indulge on my emotional whims this was hardly the time for unnecessary theatrics.
It wasn’t long before I neared my destination: Ponyville’s local ice cream parlor, the same one I loved to take Sweetie Belle to. It was probably a very concerning sign that there were more ponies on the street as I approached, and every last one of them was running in the opposite direction. Clearly Rising’s envoy had made an impression.
Once I finally arrived, I saw exactly why so many ponies had been fleeing the scene. Rising Fire’s envoy had brought an escort as well: a group of skeletal undead soldiers standing guard outside. Each of them was wearing wearing black and gold trimmed armor that was no doubt intended to appear intimidating, but it lacked a certain artistic flair. There weren’t any plumes on their helmets or other decorations that could liven up their appearance.
They didn’t react as we approached, though Twilight’s guardponies tensed up at the prospect of facing undead. However, someone had planted a white flag on the roof of the parlour, and I certainly didn’t have any intention of violating the parley. While it was entirely possible this was some sort of trap, I intended to be an unimpeachable diplomat so long as Rising’s forces also abided by the truce. She had already tried to claim the moral high ground over Twilight despite besieging the city with an undead army, so the last thing I needed to do was give her anything she could use against my friend.
I strode into the parlour with the same confidence I used whenever I was about to meet with an important customer, pretending the skeletons weren’t even there. There were more of the armored skeletons inside the ice cream parlor, covering the front and back doors as well as every single window. An extremely nervous-looking server—a lanky youth who was probably doing their first job—stood behind the bar, his hooves trembling slightly as he scooped up ice cream to make a banana split. But everyone else in the parlor fell away at the sight of who was waiting for me.
It was me.
Or, somepony that looked like me sitting on a stool at the bar. Despite my best efforts to keep a cool head, I found myself staring, my mouth half-agape in an undignified manner that I quickly corrected. My thoughts whirled as I tried to regathered them. It wouldn’t be the first time I’d run afoul of changelings, but this didn’t seem like something Chrysalis would have set up.
Was this some sort of ploy on the envoy’s part to throw me off? Perhaps they were trying to hide their identity? Could they even be planning on replacing me with this doppelganger so as to sneak an agent into the castle?
But wait—we’d never told Rising I would be the envoy. How could she have known to tell her agent to assume my form? Perhaps the skeletons had passed word along to their master? A changeling could shapeshift in a matter of seconds, after all.
Whatever the truth might be, I intended to get to the bottom of it along with everything else. I straightened myself back into a dignified and fully controlled pose, then sat next to my opposite as though nothing were amiss. I had seen a great many strange things over my life, and at least the past encounters with changelings had prepared me somewhat for facing an exact duplicate of myself. It wasn’t that hard to recover and regain my composure, and I took the opportunity to study the pony that must be Rising’s envoy.
My eyes caught several details about her that confirmed that she didn’t look exactly like myself, even if the resemblance was utterly uncanny. The softness in my frame was gone in hers, replaced by hard muscle in many places. Her coat seemed faded in comparison to my own: it wasn’t the normal type of fading that came with age, but ... more like what came with a wig, more than anything else. The same went with her mane; something seemed eerily artificial with it, and it lacked my own mane’s vibrancy.
The mirror behind the bar allowed me to get a good look at her face as I settled into place next to her. Despite the same uncanny resemblance she shared with me in every other regard, her features were much sharper than mine, almost as if she were a carved statue rather than a living pony. Her face had hints of the unnatural perfection that came with cosmetic surgery or illusion spells, yet so far as I could tell she had received neither.
One thing I could credit her for, she still had my impeccable sense of taste in clothing, though a black cloak with a deep red lining draped over her shoulders portrayed a slightly more morbid and martial vein than my usual fare. Underneath that was a finely wrought breastplate of a black metal I suspected might be adamantine, though that would make it a fabulously expensive piece of armor. I didn’t recognize the design on it: a curiously skeletal-looking phoenix in green flame. Presumably some symbol of Rising Fire and her army.
There was something familiar about the sword at her side, though I couldn’t place it. Though I was no blacksmith, the blade itself seemed finely wrought, a deep black with curious silver ripples running up its length. It had a curious sort of almost sickle-like forward-curving shape, quite unlike anything I’d seen before. My doppleganger also had a necklace or amulet of some sort around her neck, though the cloak and armor hid most of it from view.
However, for all her good dress sense, one look at this pony’s eyes convinced me that she was so very different from me. Her eyes were ... cold. Hard, even, like staring at unforgiving steel.
That succinctly described my entire feeling about her. Even her movements seemed unnaturally smooth and calculated, like a machine.
Regardless of the circumstances, I wasn’t about to let myself seem intimidated by whoever this was. “I hope this isn’t some kind of ghastly joke, because I assure you it isn’t funny.”
My doppleganger glanced at me out of the corner of those steely eyes. “My my, what a coincidence.” Her eyes flicked over me, evaluating me like I was nothing more than a cold calculation to be taken in and filed away. All the oddities and tiny points of incongruence made it all the more unsettling when the next thing she did was let out a faint huff of mild disapproval, the same one I used whenever something didn’t quite measure up to my rigorous standards. “Is that really what my mane used to look like?”
Despite the utter absurdity of the situation, I felt my hackles rising. “Excuse me? I’ll have you know my mane looks quite ravishing. And really, yours could stand to get a bit more care. You really must condition more often, darling. Regardless, I can't help but notice that you look almost exactly like me. Or close enough to be in bad taste, given the circumstances.”
Only the furthest corner of her mouth twitched with something that was almost a smile. “I assure you, after several centuries you would beg to look as good as I do. And where I come from, we make do with what we can.”
So she was from someplace else, and she was several centuries old. That probably meant she wasn’t anything like a normal equine. That was something to work off of. After all, part of the reason I was here was to gather information. “So you’re not from around here, I take it?”
“That depends on how you define ‘from here’.” She turned her gaze on the server. “I do hope you're almost done now that negotiations are about to start? I would hate it if my appetite were ruined before I could even get in a bite.” She smiled at the server, and I realized she had a pair of sharp elongated fangs mixed in with the rest of her teeth. I was hardly an expert on monsters, but even I knew what those meant.
The server must have seen her fangs as well, because he nervously swallowed and picked up the pace as much as he could without turning it into a frantic scramble. “O-of course, ma'am. I’m sorry it’s taking so long, but normally Soft Serve does these and—” While he was talking he twitched nervously and the ice cream fell out of his scooper, landing on the floor with a wet splat. “O-oh no! I’m so sorry ma’am! It was an accident!” He dropped down to his knees. “Please don’t kill me, I’ll fix it!”
“Oh, honestly.” My double let out an aggravated sigh. “Stop groveling. You’re making a spectacle of yourself and being a complete drama queen. Considering the circumstances I won’t even have this reflect badly on your tip.”
“Thank you,” the server whimpered before rushing back to his task.
My vampiric counterpart shifted her attention back to me. “In any case, we didn't come here to discuss fashion, though I think I must take the last word by pointing out that you certainly won’t look as good as I do when you’re over five hundred years old.”
That naturally aroused quite a bit of curiosity on my part. “Are you saying you’re five hundred years old?” I frowned at her. “Are you some sort of distant ancestor of mine, then? I suppose that could explain the uncanny resemblance.”
“Oh nothing that simple,” she murmured. “It's a very long and dreary story.”
I simply raised an eyebrow. “Well, I didn’t have anything else planned for the day. If need be, I’m sure you could convince this Rising Fire of yours to extend her deadline so we could carry on with the negotiations.”
The other Rarity let out a cold chuckle. “I think not. We set such an unforgiving timeline for very good reasons. Even if your Twilight Sparkle doesn’t find a way to contact this world’s Celestia, someone’s bound to notice that Ponyville’s under siege rather quickly. We would much prefer to be done with our business before Canterlot sends a relief force, not to mention the risk of Celestia coming directly.”
She frowned and rubbed her chin thoughtfully. “Well, to reduce our long and tragic tale to the bare minimum, your world's Twilight Sparkle and Starlight Glimmer unleashed a temporal catastrophe upon my world, ultimately leading to the extinction of all intelligent life.” She glanced down at herself and shrugged. “At least, if one restricts oneself to traditional definitions of life. We’ve come to bring the two of them to justice for their crimes.”
“I ... see.” That did match Starlight’s account of it, but there was quite the difference between her dismissive summary of the ‘crazy’ story and hearing it delivered with such conviction. Especially when the one speaking was almost a perfect duplicate of myself. “And what proof do you have that Twilight and Starlight did this? You have to admit that it’s quite a wild tale, what with alternate worlds and time travel. Even if we accepted that, how can you say for certain that it was our Twilight and Starlight who did it? It could be some other dimension where ... I don’t know, some strange mirror universe where Twilight’s a conniving monster instead of the Princess of Friendship and Starlight is ... ah ... even worse?”
My counterpart shrugged. “Their magical signatures on the temporal spells that caused all this, for one. For the other, so far as we’ve been able to determine, there are not in fact an infinite number of parallel worlds as certain individuals thought—merely ourselves, you, and a few traces of what must have been other worlds. We have every reason to believe that your Twilight and Starlight are responsible for those as well, but sadly mass genocide and dimensional annihilation is a very effective way to eliminate evidence and witnesses.”
It all sounded quite mad to me, but she was so certain of her words I knew there was no point in trying to argue with her. If she truly was mad ... well, one can’t use reason to dissuade someone from an irrational belief. Or as Applejack once put it, ‘Don’t argue with crazy or stupid—they drag you down to their level an’ beat you with experience.’
Still, that didn’t mean there was no hope for a least trying to keep the discussion going. Perhaps if we began at the periphery instead of striking straight at the heart of the matter? “If that is the case, why didn't you come to us to talk about this instead of showing up outside of Ponyville with an army and placing the whole town under siege?”
The other Rarity chuckled. “We are talking, darling. Don’t you recognize a civilized conversation when you hear one? We just also took appropriate precautions to make sure the culprits wouldn’t get away from us if, say, these negotiations are a farce designed to distract us while Twilight and Starlight try to escape.”
“You could have presented the matter to Celestia,” I pointed out. “Equestria does have laws and procedures for handling criminal accusations.”
“And how fair of a hearing do you expect a lich, a vampire, and revenant would be received when accusing Princess Celestia’s protégé of mass murder?”
That was ... not an easy point to argue against. A trio of undead would have a hard time even getting an audience to see any high-ranking officials, and an accusation against Twilight would probably have to go all the way up to Celestia herself. And ... well I don’t think Celestia would be unjust if the matter reached her, but it would certainly take a great deal to convince her that Twilight was guilty of the things of which she was accused.
The server placed the banana sundae in front of the envoy. “Here... Here you go. Is-Is everything okay?” His eyes flicked between her and the skeletons placed about the parlor.
“Oh yes, that looks perfect.” She placed a few odd-looking coins on the counter. “There you go, I take it this will suffice for pay.”
“S-sure.” The server swallowed as he slowly reached out to take the bits, probably worried that the envoy would suddenly reach out and snatch his hoof. “That’s more than enough.”
The envoy smiled cooly. “Good, keep the rest as a tip. My apologies once again, but it really has been a long time since I’ve gotten to enjoy a good bowl of ice cream.”
“I do hope you’ll allow him to return to his home and family now,” I pressed. “He hardly needs to be here for these negotiations.” In truth, I wanted him out of the parlor and well away from any potential danger. So far this alternate version of myself seemed to be acting perfectly calm and reasonable aside from the mad accusations, but if she was crazy, then who could say what might trigger her into violence. Not to mention that even a perfectly sane vampire wasn’t exactly safe to be around.
Best if the server got to a shelter in any event, because I wasn’t optimistic about convincing this strange doppelganger of myself to stand down. Crazy or not, she clearly believed in her story.
“Of course he can go.” The envoy casually flicked a hoof, and the skeletons covering the door stood aside. The server looked between us, worried this might be some sort of trick, but when nobody stopped him he cautiously made his way out of the parlor. Once he was clear of the skeletons, he immediately broke into a terrified gallop.
While he fled, my counterpart idly ran her spoon across the sundae, taking her time enjoying the sight of it. She spoke up only after she had finished indulging herself. “So then, you know why we have taken drastic measures to secure the culprits. Don’t misunderstand, I’m sure that your Ponyville is filled with wonderful ponies who just want to go about their normal lives, and we regret the disruption and potential danger our presence represents. However, we simply can’t allow Twilight and Starlight to use them or Celestia as a shield. For all we know, it’s only a matter of time before they unleash some catastrophe upon this world as well. And even if their monstrous days are behind them, there is a significant risk they will flee.”
I immediately thought back to Starlight’s ill-conceived attempt to do exactly that and wisely said nothing as my not-quite-doppelganger continued. “Considering they have demonstrated the capacity to travel to different times and worlds, there are a near infinite number places they could try to hide. Although we would be able to find them eventually, we’re not about to risk them escaping justice because they managed to avoid us until they died of old age—or far worse, unleashing another catastrophe because we failed to stop them.”
“I’m afraid I have to point out once again that we only have your word about all of this.” I swiveled the barstool to face her. “I would have you know that I’ve known Twilight for years. She’s one of my best friends and is one of the sweetest, most innocent ponies I’ve ever known. The idea that she would destroy entire worlds and murder countless innocents is contrary to everything I know about her.”
The envoy’s eyes narrowed darkly. “I think the key to that statement is ‘everything I know’. Do you honestly think she would tell you all about how she came to a world locked in the midst of war against a returned Sombra? Or about how she and Starlight decided that our world didn't live up to whatever standard they set, and so wiped it away to make one they found more pleasing?”
I did my best to maintain my calm in the face of these accusations, but it was becoming increasingly difficult. The type of crimes she was accusing my friends of committing were nearly mind boggling in scope, and while it was theoretically possible Twilight might be capable of doing such a thing, I couldn’t pull myself into seriously considering the notion. “But why would she do something so horrible?” I demanded. “By the sounds of things you did nothing wrong. What’s the motive?”
The envoy shrugged. “To be honest, we don’t know. It all ... happened so suddenly. Only a few witnesses met either of them, and none of those survived the event. Rising only heard the reports third-hoof. The first we knew of the problem was when Canterlot got hit by a temporal storm, and we were still trying to come to terms with what we faced when the final catastrophe annihilated us all. Rising was at the epicenter of the event. As for myself ... one minute I was designing a new line of standard combat uniforms for our troops, then after a bright flash of light, I awoke in my current state in the wasteland that had once been our world.”
She let out a long sight. “And I was one of the very, very small hooffull of lucky ones, if you can consider this existence lucky. Only Rising and Sombra survived the initial event. Sombra became even madder afterwards, and we saw to him once we learned he was still alive. Rising ... well her survival was ultimately temporary.” She slowly scooped up a spoonful of her sundae and stared at it. “It’s been so long since it happened that the world we used to know almost seems like a dream. So no, we don’t know why they murdered our world. To be quite honest, learning why they did it is part of what drove us to come here in the first place. We want justice and we will have it, but I also want to know what kind of monster could do such a thing. It would at least provide a measure of closure to it all. Before the executioner’s axe falls upon their heads, I intend to look each of them in the eyes and ask them why.”
She delivered those words with a terrible sort of finality. If she was telling the truth, she’d had hundreds of years worth of bitterness, hate, and pain. She certainly spoke those words with the sort of utter conviction and iron determination I would expect from someone who’d been through all she claimed to have suffered. Unless she was a master actress, she was being honest.
“And what sort of justice do you intend on meeting out?” I frowned as I considered the possibilities. “Given the scope of the crime, I can’t imagine it would be anything good.”
The envoy scoffed. “What sort of punishment would come remotely close to matching the scale of the crimes they committed? We will do our best to have a fair and just trial for them, as well as a punishment for when they’re found guilty.”
“I hope I don’t have to point out how fair and just a trial can be when you’ve already determined they’re guilty and clearly plan to act as judge, jury, and executioners.”
The envoy rolled her eyes. “Darling, we wouldn’t have gone to the lengths we have if we weren’t absolutely certain they’re guilty. We’ll go through the motions of a trial and allow them to defend themselves, but what possible defense could there be for slaughter on such a massive scale? We will have justice for our dead world, and for all the other worlds they murdered.”
There was obviously no point in continuing to point out that Twilight would never do something like that, so I opted for a different approach. “So what are we supposed to do? You can’t honestly expect us to hand over two of our friends purely on your say-so, especially with such a fantastical story. It will be a fight, and I can assure you we are hardly defenseless. Maybe we can’t stop your army indefinitely, but all we have to do is hold out until Celestia and Luna will arrive to relieve us.”
The other Rarity lifted a single eyebrow and broke out the tone I usually reserved for when my friends or customers wanted an especially appalling outfit. “And you think we haven’t accounted for that? I assure you, we have planned every last detail of this operation. Make no mistake, if it comes to a battle, we are more than capable of taking Twilight and Starlight by force.”
My doppleganger ate a spoonful of ice cream, but frowned as soon as it hit her tongue. After a few seconds, she slowly swallowed it. “Still, we were hoping that we could avoid as much violence as possible. We expected Twilight and Starlight to put up a fight no matter what happens, but we had hoped to convince the rest of you to hand them over to us or help us arrest them. Always a bit of an overoptimistic best case scenario, I’m afraid, but we would prefer to avoid collateral damage as much as practicable while taking them into custody. Once we have them we’ll be more than happy to leave your world in peace.”
“And then what?” I snapped. It was a bit hard to keep up a polite and diplomatic mask when she spoke as if everything would be fine once she had she wanted. “What happens to my friends once you’re done kidnapping them and killing anyone who gets in your way? You’ll have your kangaroo court and execute them? Do you really think we’ll let you get away with that?”
The envoy took a stared unblinkingly at her sundae for several seconds before taking another bite. “If it’s justice you’re concerned about, then I have been authorized by my empress to allow your Equestria to send representatives to our trial.”
“Your empress?” I repeated incredulously.
“Rising Fire, Princess of the United Realms of Equestria and Archon of Freeport. Though I have had a time convincing her to actually use those titles. Still, at least she did go along with my suggestion of taking a regnal name. It seemed fitting, considering that was also when Sunset discarded the last remnants of her mortality to become what she is now.”
Well at least that explained one thing. Considering she’d just called Rising Fire ‘Sunset’ and the current Archon of Freeport was Sunset Shimmer ... well I suppose that cleared up just who this Rising Fire was. Or at least, it clarified that to the same extent that I understood the identity of the strange vampire who to all appearances and her own claims was me.
My duplicate cleared her throat. “As I was saying, Rising is prepared to allow you to send along observers to Twilight and Starlight’s trial, and even aid in their legal defense. Of course, that’s on the condition that you fully cooperate with turning her over to our custody.” She lifted her head to look at me out of the corner of her eye. “Though naturally the trial will be conducted on our world and in accordance with our laws, and we maintain the right to review the list of visitors you wish to send and refuse entry to any or all of them. We’re not about to risk you sneaking in a rescue party, after all.”
“Naturally.” I couldn’t help but throw more than a little bit of scorn into the word. She tried to make herself sound nice and reasonable with her proposal, but it was quite plain that she wasn’t going to extend cooperation to the point of actually making a difference. We could send a group of observers and a legal team—assuming Rising approved them—but they would all be going to a show trial whose verdict had already been decided before anyone presented a single piece of evidence. All we’d be doing is rubber-stamping her execution of Twilight and Starlight. “I’m sorry to say that we have no intention of cooperating with an invasion of our home and the capture and execution of one of my closest friends, especially when all we have is your word that Twilight and Starlight have committed these crimes. Equestria isn’t accustomed to giving ponies away under duress.”
My counterpart let out a long sigh and listlessly poked the spoon at her sundae. “I was afraid that would be your answer. It seems the two of them have covered up their crimes so well that none of you will believe they’re capable of performing them. A pity it came to this; I really had hoped we could find a way to resolve this peacefully.”
“You don’t have to go through with this,” I insisted. I knew there was no real hope of convincing her, but I had to at least try. “Call off your army. Show us proof that Twilight and Starlight are guilty of the crimes you accuse them and we can bring the matter to Celestia for justice. I know you don’t believe it, but Equestria does have a fair and impartial justice system.”
The envoy shook her head. “Darling, I think you forget that long ago I used to live in an Equestria that was quite similar to yours. The undead products of dark necromancy would be destroyed on sight by the Equestrian Magus Corps. Is your world any different?” When I didn’t immediately deny it, she scoffed. “Do you honestly expect us to believe we’d get a fair hearing from you? We both know you don’t believe a word I’ve said, and I can’t imagine this world’s Celestia would feel differently. All diplomacy would accomplish is surrendering every advantage we currently hold.” She stood from her seat, taking her sundae with her. I noticed that her magic was a dark bloody red, rather than the gentle blue glow of mine. That had to be significant, Twilight said a pony’s magic only changed color if there were magical artifacts involved or something major happened to them. “We simply can’t take the chance our world’s murderers will escape, and that’s my final word on the matter.”
She started towards the door, but stopped at the exit to look back at me with those steely eyes of hers. “For what it’s worth, I do think you’ve been fooled by Twilight and Starlight rather than being knowingly complicit. If you don’t listen to anything else I have to say, take this one piece of advice: take your parents and sister and seek shelter. So long as you stay far away from the castle, it should be relatively safe. It would be best if you and everypony else evacuated Ponyville entirely. Tell everypony to come to the edge of the barrier so we can help escort all of them to safety. We've already interned everyone we could find outside the city, and you have my word that as soon as this matter is settled, we will be happy to let you return to your homes unmolested.”
I certainly wasn’t going to let myself and my family be imprisoned by an invading army of the dead. “You’re asking me to extend quite a bit more trust than you’ve earned from us. You will have to pardon me if I’m somewhat suspicious that you might take the opportunity to use everypony who seeks sanctuary outside the barrier as hostages to force Twilight’s surrender or keep Celestia and her relief force at bay.” That didn’t even get into the positively ghastly possibility that they might be aiming to gather up a bunch of ponies for some other nefarious purpose. These ponies clearly had access to necromancy, and I was talking to an honest-to-goodness vampire. I wasn’t about to hand over my precious Sweetie Belle to their tender mercies regardless of how kindly they asked and how just they insisted their intentions were.
The envoy sighed and shrugged. “I suppose I should’ve known you wouldn’t start believing me now. I do hope you at least took them to one of the civilian shelters instead of the castle. However, if you don't trust my word, then perhaps one of your friends will be able to persuade you.”
The envoy reached into her cloak and withdrew a letter. I immediately noticed that it had been signed with Fluttershy’s butterfly cutie mark. I quickly tore it open and read it through. It looked like her writing and there weren’t any obvious signs of tampering, but even if it wasn’t a forgery I could hardly presume she’d written the letter of her own free will.
A quick read-through didn’t really tell me anything I hadn’t already known, or suspected as soon as I saw the letter was from her. Evidently she’d fallen afoul of Rising’s army while helping some of her animals, and now she was in one of the internment camps along with several others like Zecora. She made it clear that none of them were being mistreated, and she wasn’t in any danger or feeling threatened by her captors.
That last was almost certainly a lie. I would feel quite mistreated and threatened if I were being held against my will, no matter how polite the kidnappers were. Fluttershy ... well she’d gotten a great deal braver than she’d been when I first met her, but even the bravest pony would be terrified in her circumstances.
Still, it was at least a relief to know that Fluttershy and everypony else was okay. Or at least, they were if the letter in my hooves could be trusted. I certainly wanted to believe that was the case, but considering the circumstances, I could hardly do so. The letter could be a forgery, or she could have been coerced into writing it. Or ... well if there was a vampire duplicate of me, why not one of Fluttershy too? It wouldn’t be the maddest thing I’d seen today.
Still, so long as she wanted to play at diplomacy I would do the same. “Everything seems to be in order,” I stated, “but I’m sorry to say that while it’s a personal relief to know that Fluttershy is well, this letter changes nothing. To be quite blunt, a letter written by someone who by your own admission you’re holding prisoner is hardly trustworthy. Perhaps if you gave us time to check to make sure everypony under your ... protection is unharmed and well, I could more easily believe you. Or if you simply withdrew your armies and allowed our civilians to fully evacuate rather than holding them in camps.”
My counterpart chuckled shook her head. “I think you have to know that we can’t allow that when we have less than an hour to work with. You don’t actually want to cooperate with us—you’re just trying to find excuses to drag things out until Canterlot can muster a response.”
“I am offended by the very suggestion,” I lied as smoothly as I did when insisting to some of my less comely customers that they looked simply ravishing. Not that my dresses couldn’t bring out the natural beauty in anypony, but ... well, a dress can only do so much.
Still, knowing some of my friends and associates were already Rising’s prisoners was quite the cause for concern. She didn’t seem to be hinting at using them as hostages against us, but just letting us know they had the prisoners at all could be an implied threat. Not to mention they were probably still hoping to catch flies with honey. Perhaps the threats would come later if we still refused to cooperate with them. For now though, I would continue to play nice. If it was a threat, escalating the matter was not in my interests at all. “I will speak with the others about this, but I doubt very many of Ponyville’s citizens will want to voluntarily surrender to your army.”
“A pity.” The other Rarity made her way out the door, and after a moment I followed. The sun was still high in the sky, and evidently some of the novels I’d read about vampires had been quite mistaken as she neither burst into flames nor began sparkling when the sun’s rays hit her. “I hoped we would be able to evacuate the town before the battle began. The more civilians there are rushing about in a panic, the more likely it is that we all suffer an unfortunate and utterly preventable tragedy. Enough innocents have already died on Twilight and Starlight’s account.” Her eyes narrowed. “If you’re worried about us using the civilians as hostages, you’re concerning yourself with the wrong side in this conflict. Twilight and Starlight murdered whole worlds, so I doubt they would hesitate to threaten a few innocents to escape justice. It’s not as if they could get more blood on their hooves than they have already.”
“I see.” I took a deep breath. “I hate to say it, but it seems we’ve reached something of an impasse. There’s no way you could possibly convince anyone in Ponyville to hand Twilight and Starlight over to you, and I doubt there’s anything I could say to convince you or Rising to stop this.”
“They’re murderers, and we’ve come a very long way to bring them to justice,” my counterpart answered. “We will not be denied in this matter.”
“You seem quite obsessed with destroying them,” I pointed out. “That can’t be healthy.”
“‘Healthy’ is a very relative term in my current condition, darling.” She frowned at me. “You really have no way to even conceive of how much we suffered on account of your dear friends. I spent decades as a horrible rotting zombie before Rising and I found a way to remake me into this more accommodating form. Decades spent trying to find some way to undo all the damage our world had suffered. Rising held off on transforming herself until she was so old she could barely get out of bed just because giving up on the last bit of intelligent equine life in the world felt too much like surrendering to the final death of our world.”
She was right: I couldn’t imagine what that would be like. It was simply to alien to everything I’d known and experienced in my own life. At this point, I questioned if we could even be considered the same pony anymore, given how radically our lives differed. I hated to say it, but I had no idea how to negotiate with people who had suffered so much, not when they were so determined to press ahead whatever the consequences. Obsession could be a very ugly thing, and it had warped my counterpart into an individual much scarier and more dangerous than myself.
Her eyes narrowed, and I could see the cold fury burning within them. “Your friends took everything away from us—our lives, our friends, our families, our entire world. Despite all our efforts, we never managed to rebuild more than a shallow mockery of the world we once had. As if putting drapes over the windows in Canterlot Castle and dressing up our skeletons and calling them castle staff somehow made everything fine. Our world is ... not a fit place to live. All we have left now is to claim justice against the monsters responsible for it.”
There was a rather obvious solution to their problem, though I was rather hesitant to offer it. I was doubtless exceeding my authority by a hair. Still, if it could stop this from ending in battle... “If your world is truly so awful, I’m sure we could offer you sanctuary here. Perhaps with Princesses Celestia, Luna, Cadance, Twilight, and the Magus Corps all applying their talents to the matter, we could even find a way to reverse the damage to your world. I know you spent decades on it, but fresh minds and new perspectives might be able to—”
“Don’t make promises you can’t keep, darling.” Her eyes dropped down to the slowly melting sundae still hovering along at her side. “Do you know why I got this? I thought it would remind me of better times. It tastes like ash, and the memories of those innocent days with my sister are like a dagger in my heart. You think living in your world would let us forget what was done to us when every single sight and sound is just another reminder of how much your Twilight stole away from us?”
I sighed and shook my head. “I’m not sure what you expect from me, then. I’ve done everything I can to try and find a reasonable solution, but it seems you won’t be content with anything less than our immediate surrender.”
“Then I suggest you get out of our way,” my counterpart snapped back. “Twilight and Starlight will face justice.”
“You know I can’t do that.” I scowled at her. “I may not be a trained soldier like her guards, but I’m no shrinking violet either. I stood by her side against the likes of Nightmare Moon, Discord and Sombra—and if need be, I will stand against you and your Rising Fire as well.
“And you will fail.” The other Rarity tossed the sundae into a trashcan. “You can’t beat us. You’re me, or at least quite similar to how I was before the death of my world. I know what you’re capable of, and to be quite honest darling you don’t belong on the battlefield. You certainly can’t hope to measure up to what I can do.”
My eyes narrowed. I didn’t appreciate being threatened, and I wasn’t about to take that remark lying down. “Plenty of others have underestimated both myself and my friends in the past. And yes, sometimes I even surprised myself with how much I could achieve when I put my mind to it. I’m afraid your threats are falling on deaf ears.”
My counterpart tossed her mane and stepped next to a street light. “Admittedly, words are cheap. Perhaps a slightly more practical demonstration, then?” She casually bumped her hip against the street light. With a screech of protesting metal it bent in half and I instinctively flinched away as the lamp crashed to the ground and sprayed broken glass in all directions. That pole had been made of almost solid metal and had to have been a good twenty centimeters thick, and she’d just bent it in half without trying particularly hard.
My vampire double smirked, seeming quite smug at the fear I evidently hadn’t managed to hide. “You’re in over your head, darling. Do the smart thing and go with your family into the shelters. Rising hesitated to hurt her alternate self and her old friends the last time she came to this world, and because of that, our mission failed and Starlight escaped justice. I took an important lesson away from that: my world is the only one that matters.”
“Is it, though?” I demanded, doing my best to regain my composure despite how fast my heart was racing. Evidently one of the things all my light reading about vampires hadn’t gotten wrong or exaggerated was their superequine strength. “You’ve talked a big game about seeking justice, but how does hurting the innocent ponies of my world make things right? Do you really think murdering innocents will do anything to help avenge your world? Is it what all the dead would want you to do? I think they would much prefer for you to make peace with what happened and move on with your lives.”
“We’ll never know, will we? After all, your Twilight killed them all.” The envoy stared up at the Friendship Castle, taking her time to answer me. “If someone killed your Sweetie Belle—your parents, your friends, everyone you knew and loved—would you let anything stop you from bringing them to justice?”
I scowled at her. “Is that a threat?”
She fixed me with her cold, calculating gaze. “Nothing of the sort, darling. Merely a question.”
I smiled back at her, though to be quite honest a predator might have mistaken it for me baring my teeth. “I’m sure you know exactly what I would do if anything happened to them. And right now, the one threatening my friends, family, and everything I care about—is you. Darling.”
The Rarity of a dead world said nothing for several seconds, remaining unnervingly still and staring at me with her cold, lifeless eyes. Then her head twitched in a small, barely perceptible nod. “So be it. We gave you the chance to stop this without bloodshed. What happens next is on your hooves.”
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I sincerely hope I am right in my belief that Rising Fire and her pack of unholy abominations are badly underestimating Twilight and company, the princesses and Sunset.
Also I hope they are removed from their unholy, unnatural and twisted existence.
At the very least, I would like to see Starlight brought to justice for the multitude of dead worlds. She went into the past with full knowledge of what she was doing. Twilight was inadvertently dragged along.
The big question is if justice is meted out, what would the undead trio do then? Go back to their empty, dead world for the rest of eternity? Release themselves to oblivion? What would they do, exactly? I sympathize far more with the undead trio than I do Starlight.
I just realized that this settings version of starlight glimmer still travelled through time to get revenge on twilight...instead of trying to undo any of her run ins with sunset or otherwise fixing any of her major mistakes. All things considered it does make it a bit harder to sympathize with her by this point.
Okay, Rarity and the others KNOW Starlight changed the past in an attempt to ruin Twilight's life, Twilight explained this to them the moment it was all over. How is she not able to see that the dead are pretty much in the right here when it comes to arresting both Twilight and Starlight (the invasion of Ponyville is debatable but with no deaths or use of their hostages for bargaining and reasoning, I'm leaning towards them) and have a legitimate claim to justice for what was done to them?
Also curious to see if Twilight will figure out that the time traveling adventure actually killed her friends and she is hanging out with their temporal clone stand-ins.
Literally everything about their destroyed world revolves around one figure... and it’s neither Twilight nor Starlight. Rising Fire is the one who assumed it was an attack... she’s been working from that theory from the beginning. Every other being from her timeline stems from Rising herself... she killed the only other “survivor”. She’s also the only one supposedly able to understand the magic theories of what happened. If Rising Fire is wrong in her interpretations of anything involved with this, then they really have no ‘case’ for the guilt of the accused.
We know that she’s wrong in the intention behind what happened... I’m not sure why people are so quick to give her credit for being right about the mechanics of what happened.
9844254
Right.
It would be an entirely moral thing to destroy the undead abominations that have become twisted with misguided hate. Starlight indeed deserves capital punishment but Twilight has clean hoves in this matter and the unlawful actions of the undead army would be unresonable by the most barbarain of civilisations. Monsters don't become good just because they have suffered.
9844254
The only way it makes sense is if in this alternate universe Twilight never told her friends what actually happened. At least Twilight should understand what is going on once Rarity reports and gets to the part about Sombra and working in a wartime factory, unless she fails to mention it and this becomes a truly egregious case of "failure to communicate leads to disaster" storytelling.
The worst part? Twi is the one who made the choice. Yes, Starlight is the one who took them back and made the change, but Twi, and Spike, are the ones who made the choice that these new world's "didn't measure up".
Even worse? Zecora from the changling timeline even told Twi what would happen, only she asked for it to happen.
They could make a defense for Twi, but well they are guilty. And the fact that Starlight still did everything she did with time travel even after Rising attacked the first time...
Sure she thought she was in the clear, but she is an idiot and deserves everything coming to her.
The classic move of putting all the blame to the other side for what they're personally going to do...
9844293
At best, it was manslaughter on a scale of billions. It is a fact that Starlight created alternate timelines. Just as it is a fact that Twilight, wether intentional or not, destroyed these timelines killing unknowable billions. I cannot fault Rising for assuming that it was intentional, as they found multiple dead worlds, all with Twilight's and Starlight's magical fingerprint all over it.
So. That went as well as I expected it to.
9844335
Not to mention I don’t think they would be more likely to forgive them just because they accidentally obliterated their world.
Well that has to be bullshit, right?
9844360
I would say yes and no.
*ENGAGING BRAIN BARF LOGIC*
There's an infinite number of parallel universes out there, but the more they differ, the farther apart they are. The events that Starlight and Twilight were involved in created and destroyed several diverging timelines/universes all from a single point of origin, so they are all very close to each other and thus easy to detect and trace back to across the multiverse.
For Rising Fire, Vamparity, and Revenant Dash, most of the rest of the multiverse is too different from their own for them to perceive them from their own world. Perhaps if they were to run the same detection methods from here in this Equestria, they would find more universe they were not aware of.
*/DISENGAGING BRAIN BARF LOGIC*
Welp, that's my BS reasoning at least.
9844213
Actually, Twilight is more guilty of destroying those worlds then Starlight because of her belief they didn't live up to her world. She needs to be punished the most, if it comes down to it. And this is coming from someone who's favorite characters are Twilight and Starlight are tied for first.
Anyone who says differently is just biased because they are looking through rose colored glasses at Twilight l
9844293
Telling the truth may be even worse.
How do you thing Rising and co. will react when they learn the destruction of their world
wasn´t deliberate, but just the collateral damage of Starlight wanting to ruin Twilight´s friendships from the start, because they had previously ruined her pseudocommie, anti- Cutie Mark commune?
i.ytimg.com/vi/PppqpubWkHs/maxresdefault.jpg
9844425
They had no idea that this is one of the versions of time travel that destroys the alternate time lines it creates. She never judged anyone.
Frankly I'm more than a little annoyed by this version of time travel, because if it makes a parallel world instead of rewriting one, why does the parallel one explode when they changed it back? It's parallel to the world they're changing.
9844439
I'd say they'd feel like the mother of a child who was killed by a drunk driver.
It's going to be a non-issue. Everyone they know and love is still dead and the people responsible for the act may not have meant to do any harm, but the act was still done.
The fact that Twilight/Starlight didn't even bother thinking about the consequences of their actions only adds weight to the arguments they need to face what the dead are going to do to them since Starlight has already mind slaved Twilgiht's friends after her reform and was researching ways to make her spell BETTER even after she was caught, while Twilight will unleash an ancient evil because she's wet over the thought of meeting Starswirl.
9844469
Also discovering that the drunk driver has been "punished" with a cozy position in the Government to help him with the rehabilitation.
Well, that was a pretty civil conversation but it doesn't bode well for the future. I don't expect much positive contribution from Starlight either way, but when Twilight hears about their war against Sombra, I hope she can hold it together. I doubt explaining the circumstances (that Twilight had no idea about alternate worlds/timelines and was just running for her life) will help. Well, maybe it'll help Twilight a bit, but Starlight hasn't helped her case much since then either. Not to mention Twilight's very lenient treatment of Starlight.
So vampire Rarity has superstrength, fangs, craving for blood of the living (and her world probably didn't have any left) and she still has a reflection and can walk in sunlight. Hard to tell if she has any weaknesses. And doesn't seem like their forces are affected by the daylight this time. But then after Sunset defeated Rising last time, sounds like they've really prepared this time.
Well, at least Rarity got a lot of information out of her counterpart. Talk about the calm before the storm. I wonder if Rising ever found more comrades. The other story had Rainbow and Rarity but Rising has had centuries since to find anyone else who could be reanimated.
You know, now that I think about it what was Starlight doing whenever Twi and Spike were wandering around in the altered 'now'? Starlight wasn't resetting to the Map. Was she just hopping between Twi's attempts to stop her in the past without ever seeing the effects of those changes? Or did she end up in a cave that never changed somewhere with an alert whenever Twi came around for another go?
Also, when exactly did Twi and Starlight's Excellent Adventure actually happen in this timeline? Or have Rising Fire & Co ended up in another alternate timeline without realizing it?
Lastly, I'm still kind of pissed about Sunset's wings. Twilight just kind of tripped over her own hooves into wings, while Sunset fought, bled, sacrificed, and almost died only to be told 'Haha, GTFO!'.
It's hard to blame Twilight much for what happened to Rising's world. She was attacked, and for all that Rising's group wants to pin it on Twilight "judging" their world, she was trying to save her own! And especially with theirs being the first she saw probably had no idea what would happen. Starlight...I have little to no sympathy for. Twilight being Twilight I'm sure they won't give Starlight up, but man I can't say she doesn't deserve it. Getting warning back in Freeport that time travel shenanigans would cause her to kill a world, seeking out (sorta, in a way) and then making a pact with a flesh-crafting dragon, doing said time travel shenanigans despite the warning. All without seeming to feel any guilt or signs - other than surrendering to Twilight - that she regrets her actions or their results. I just. augh
I hope the local Sunset shows up and beats some sense into her after they deal with Rising.
9844614
I'll have to re-read the undead crew's fic to check if it was spelled out, but it could be she just...stayed in that timeline. Like each one she's at the Sonic Rainboom race, Twilight gets sucked through the portal back to the "present," and Starlight lived out her life, probably facing jail or something else for a magical duel in Cloudsdale. Then Twilight comes out of the portal, "fixes" things, they both revert back to Cloudsdale, universe gets wiped.
And much as I love Sunset, and Alicorn!Sunset even more, she had the potential to be an alicorn, but willingly cast it aside in order to put the beat down on an ancient dragon! That ain't nothing!
I think that Rising hasn't considered one possibility because she cannot fathom it: Twilight was attempting to return to her home, and no other reason. Twilight didn't judge what was going on, she was trying to fix what was broken without really thinking of the consequences of 'it doesn't exist anymore' actually means.
Rising pretends, but will ignore, the truth even when confronted, because she is dedicated to her actions. She's gone too far to accept any other option. And she has no moral high ground to stand on. Rising just wants to believe she does. She, in Twilight's position, would have done the exact same thing: anything to save her world.
9844440
Not to mention, did this version of Twilight and Starlight even *do* the time-travel shenanigans? Or was that already rewritten since this obviously isn't the canon universe.
9844672
Justice3442's Sunset has always a rolled newspaper ready to hit Starlight's snout the moment she senses any GlimGlam's shenanigans.
9844440
Basically when one timeline with a greater entropy state becomes entangled with another timeline with a lower entropy state the timeline with the greater entropy state "eats" the lower state timeline.
This is also far more in line with real-world theories about quantum entanglement and alternate universes.
9844335
Except that it’s not a fact... it’s an assumption. We don’t actually know how the mechanics of all of this work. Again, the tiniest change in a race between Pegasus children seemingly resulted in vastly different futures with different characters ruling Equestria. Starlight was crucial to this happening. Rising Fire time traveled back in time to Starlight’s youth and attacked her. How did that affect the timeline? Did that change the future? She is time traveling right now.. Is she wiping out billions by doing so?
We don’t know. We don’t know what happens when a future is rewritten... not really. We only know Rising Fire’s viewpoint on it... and we know that her viewpoint is not fully correct to begin with.
9844439
How will they feel if it turns out that Rising Fire’s attempts to punish Starlight via timetravel for something that she hadn’t done yet helped cement a persecution complex that drove Starlight to want to ruin Twilight’s friendship in the first place? Or if memories of that accusation is what made Starlight give up and believe Twilight, allowing her to revert things and in the process undo any chance for Rising Fire’s timeline?
Again, the moment people connect time travel to wiping out life in potential futures, someone needs to point out that Rising Fire has done it in the past, and is in fact time traveling right now.
9845424
Why does entanglement force the two into conflict? I get why they're entangled, and I think I buy the bit about entropy states (I think; I'm not sure why being more decayed would make it more powerful, but I guess it has something to do with how old a universe is VS how old a universe retroactively is) but I'm still not sure why There Can Be Only One.
I see the meeting of the Rarities went well. As well as it ever could've, anyway. At least now, once she gets back, Twilight should have all the information she needs to figure out the truth. I expect another confrontation with Starlight coming.
9845480
How is that an assumption? It is quite clear that the time traveling shenanigans happened. The fact that Rising attacked Starlight shouldn't really matter, unless we are using time travel rules where it doesn't matter what you do because its already happened. For the sake of simplicity, the yes Starlight and Twilight accidentally killed multiple worlds. This is a fact. Everything the story has told us so far points to this. The only view point Rising has is that she want revenge no matter the cost. And even then they have gone to extreme lengths to try and avoid unnecessary bloodshed. (In this Book at least).
9846109
It’s an assumption that Starlight and Twilight caused the end of their universe because there are multiple time travelers at play, including Rising Fire herself, and the mechanics of the process and how it affects potential futures isn’t clear. Did Rising Fire wipe out futures when she traveled back to try and kill a young Starlight? Surely that would be a bigger difference to the timestream than if Rainbow Dash is kept from winning a race as a filly instead of the race never happening at all... both of those result in no Rainboom, and yet cause massively different futures with no clear cause/effect that accounts for those differences. And if you can’t track the cause and effect relationship that leads to the creation of a timeline, you’re just guessing at the cause/effect that brings about the end of a timeline.
Maybe it’s as simple as it looks, or maybe it’s incredibly complex and so Sombra can wage an endless war in one future and be wiped out in favor of Chrysalis in another, and maybe Rising Fire’s own efforts to change the past factored into her own timeline’s end.
9846109
Maybe I can explain this better.
From viewing the episode, it appears that Twilight is returned to a changed present and ends up in the Sombra timeline. When she uses time travel to go back to the Pegasus race and she and Starlight make minor changes (no Rainboom either way) it erases the Sombra timeline and creates the Chrysalis timeline.
So theoretically, one could assume that if you time travel to the past and make changes, you wipe out the future from which you came.
If that’s the rule, Twilight is not the only one it would apply to. Rising Fire traveled to the past and made changes... at least once to attack Starlight in her youth, and once to lead this army to Ponyville.
Which of the three time travel attempts undid her universe, if all three started in the same universe and each changed the past?
I dunno... it's an alternate universe so it might be vibranium instead.
I must say, I'm glad that Harwick pointed out two issues that revolve around Rising Fire. First, while Rising Fire did experience a world of crap... by the time she re-animated Rarity and Dash, she was nuttier than a fruit cake and no longer a reliable narrator... and how much of it was written down before the actual Day It All Came Tumbling Down? Plus the individual who told Rising Fire, Dash, and Rarity that Twilight and Starlight are responsible for destroying their world was Sombra, who had become a nihilist and wanted to destroy the multiverse.
The other issue is the time travel... because while it was explained that RF must have had a phylactery that was not destroyed, and Rarity explained her upgrade to vampony from zombie, there is the possibility that by going back in time herself to stop Starlight Glimmer, Rising Fire may have created a time loop or paradox at the very least... if she had eliminated Past Starlight, then the events that caused her to go back in time to eliminate Starlight in the first place would not exist.
Bringing the 'Lights "to Justice" doesn't sound like it would be doing that at all... just thinking 4th dimensionally.
9846267
From what I understand, Twilight and Starlight are from the original universe, while Rising is from a branching one. Rising's Universe was created by Starlight changing the past, and then destroyed by Twilight going back to try and fix it. I could be wrong though, the whole time travel thing makes this an even bigger headache. Its one of the main reason I hate time travel in stories. I think I understand what you're getting at though. I only assume this is the same Twilight and Starlight because they tracked them by their magic signature.
Sorry if I'm rambling a bit here but I think I get your point, which would require diving into a much deeper philosophical debate about if Rising caused the destruction of her own universe or killed another universe in of itself by trying to change the past.
9844300 No, but suffering can turn good people into monsters, as happened here.
9844560 I kind of hope they did, just to help with the loneliness-induced madness. (Although, I don't think the world is ready for Revenant (or whatever) Pinkie.)
9846590
Yeah, if you want to boil down my argument to its basis, it’s that: we can’t really break down how this all works, so technically there is the possibility for other explanations besides that it was Twilight’s actions that killed their universe.
It certainly looks like she inadvertently did it, and the author might very well intend that it’s that simple and she inadvertently did it, but I suppose I’m approaching this from a mystery standpoint (or, with this chapter, a courtroom drama) and asking if she definitely did it, and the unknowable mechanics of how time travel works (and magical time travel at that) offers a lot of wiggle room.
If one approached “Magical Mystery Cure” the same way, at the midway point you couldn’t definitively say that Twilight’s magic was guilty of swapping the Cutie Marks of all of her friends, because we don’t know how magic works. She was originally convinced that the spell she read did nothing... what if she was right? The writer of the story could still have pulled the twist that Discord had done it, or that Twilight had innocently triggered a trap by Starswirl, or that the Elements or Celestia had done it purposefully as a test to see if she could unravel it, or many other things.
So I guess I’m just keeping an open mind until the author’s intent becomes clear. If this were a mystery, would there be any other suspects? Well, if time travel can unravel a universe, Rising Fire used It as well... that would make her a possible cause. And she’s also essentially the sole source of testimony against Twilight. Is there any obvious flaw in her story? Yes, she’s been working from the assumption that this was a purposeful attack on her world from the start, with all evidence filtered through that viewpoint, and we know that base assumption (about Twilight, at least) is wrong.
So that’s all I’m saying when I won’t commit to the idea that Twilight and Starlight definitely killed off their universe. It could very well be that simple and I’m stubbornly complicating it, though... we’ll see as the story unfolds.
9846847
I've been following this debate, and I think I may actually have something to add to this.
Yes, as a matter of fact! A rather big one, actually.
As we saw for ourselves in the show and in Come and See, this model of time travel 1. Creates a new timeline when you go back in time, and 2. Does not replace the time traveler's local version. The Sombraverse still had its own Twilight Sparkle, and presumably a Starlight Glimmer as well. This is relevant, because take a look at what happens after the wasteland timeline. Twilight and Starlight time travel again, don't mess with the Rainboom this time, and they end up in an Equestria basically identical to their original one.
Only, here's the key difference: The Equestria they end up in doesn't have its own Twilight and Starlight. They just arrive, and continue on as if they're back in their original timeline, and don't have to contend with any time-clones. Why? Because if this timeline is mostly identical to the original, then the local Twilight and Starlight have already left on a time-travelling adventure of their own. It's just one big infinite loop of Twilights and Starlights jumping a timeline over and replacing each other.
And all of this begs the question, a question which casts all of Rising Fire's claims into doubt:
If going back in time like Twilight and Starlight did always destroys the previous timeline, then why is this timeline still here?
... Yes? I really don't see why Twilight wouldn't tell her friends about the time battle. Well, maybe concern over how Dash's ego would react to learning that she is the lynchpin holding together life, hope, and Harmony, but aside from that, why not tell everypony about those grim futures? Heck, given time, they'd make great Nightmare Night stories.
I suppose she might have omitted that information to not sour their impressions of Starlight as she began the rocky road to reform, but aside from that, I'm really not sure why Rarity doesn't have this information beyond keeping her from telling her counterpart this is was a tragic accident and misunderstanding.
Or to keep the army from focusing solely on Starlight. Twilight was just trying to get home. Starlight was the one spinning off timelines left and right.
As for planning for every contingency, I find myself wondering how much recon Rising did before the invasion. Specifically, does she know to expect Discord? (And indeed, can anyone truly expect Discord?)
9844360
The spell used to locate other worlds may depend on the chronomantic residue of the battle.
9847107
It's honestly just bad writing on Hasbro's part. Unless Starlight and Twi's time traveling automatically replace their own temporal clones when they got back to Equestria (which still wouldn't work without some kind of minor change to the timing since Twi's friends came running after hearing/seeing some type of effect from Starlight's spell) it would create an infinite death spiral where the new clone Equestria was eliminated by the temporal clone of Starlight when she and Twilight's clone go back in time, who would in turn be eliminated by their clones, and so on.
What's a bit telling is, I think the writer figured out that Twilight was killing people and did his best to try and push the blame off since she goes "the tree of Harmony wants me to fix things!" and then Zecora was outright saying it was okay to erase her world. Which is surprisingly more than any other time travel story line in television has done to try and justify genocide.
9850640
That's not really bad writing. The scenario makes sense in canon. Twilight and Starlight didn't get "back" to anywhere. They just travelled to a new timeline identical to their original one a few hours or minutes after that timeline's Twilight and Starlight left. There's no reason for them to encounter their time clones, or for anyone or anything to need to be eliminated. The scenario only doesn't make sense if you assume that time-travelling destroys the previous timeline, which is what Rising Fire assumes, and which is why it's a hole in her story, because that's clearly not the case here.
9850563
Maybe she was really trying to sell them the whole "Let's keep the crazy mare who kept us markless, prisoners and under brainwashing propaganda, and just recently tried to get revenge on us, living in the castle as my personal apprentice" and didn't feel the need to specify about the horrid timelines she created. After all they all disappeared... right?
9850882
A reasonable possibility, one I considered myself.
However, I double-checked the transcript, and Twilight very clearly told her friends about the time travel at the very least. Not necessarily the details of each timeline, but definitely that they were universally unpleasant. Granted, the Winningverse is a somewhat non-standard Equestria and that could be one of the minor shifts. It's by no means a dealbreaker, just a headscratcher.
9850640
9850674
You see, this is what's bothering me about this story. Not only are we forcing a terrific, likeable character into the role of a mass-murder but it actively ruins the original story. Though I guess there's still a lot of story to go.
9851044
When I first read Blood and Iron, one of my few complaints was exactly what I pointed out here (that this model of time travel doesn't make sense with the timeline season six took place in still existing), but at the time, I was taking Rising Fire's claims about how time travel works completely at face value.
But with this story's release, I'm inclined to think that this is intentional, and that Twilight and Starlight really aren't at fault. Part of that is faith in Chengar and Ponibius as writers, because that'd be a pretty big plot-hole to leave unaddressed, and they've certainly had long enough to think about it by now, but mostly I just think that Rising is wrong because that's what would make sense from a story and character perspective. Twilight is a moral character, and if she were actually guilty and she knew it, this would be a dark, emotional drama about her being crushed by guilt, surrendering to Rising Fire, and accepting whatever punishment she hands down. But instead, we're being set up for a violent adventure-horror about Twilight and friends resisting an undead invasion of Ponyville, which suggests that Twilight has reason to believe she's justified in said resistance.
9851108 I think you're right.
It also gets into the nature of undead, at least as commonly portrayed in a lot of fantasy media. In D&D and similar systems, undead are immune to having their mind effected because their minds are basically immune to being changed. Just like lots of undead monsters that easily create spawn tend to haunt dungeons when they could probably wipe out whole countrysides if they wanted, these undead lurk in dungeons because it is what they have always done, so it is what they will always do.
I think undead think in ruts, and Rising Fire, who has animated all these dead, spent her life looking for an attacker without considering that there might not be an attack. Now that she's undead, she's lost the capacity to consider new things that contradict her current thinking, so no amount of evidence that clears Twilight and Starlight would ever convince her or her minions.
I also hope Discord shows up since Fluttershy was imprisoned, but no one seems to have thought to try and reach him.
9844213
... not really? Starlight nor Twilight, would ever have known that they were creating alternate worlds existing ALONGSIDE their original, since that's not how the show itself portrayed it. The change that the worlds existed in parallel instead of overwriting, and that they were erased in a brutal and traumatic way, is Chengar's conceit for this story. (The other being zombies hopping worlds). Which is also why I think it stops just a little short of Lord Brony's drunk driving analogy, since anyone who decides to chug one back is probably well AWARE what alcohol can do.
9844469
9844482
9851918
You said you didn't read Northern Venture, so I'm guessing you probably didn't read Blood and Iron either, right? In which case, you should know that in that story, when Rising Fire first attacked Starlight in Freeport, she clearly said, in no uncertain terms, "Sometime in the future, Starlight Glimmer will time travel, and it will destroy the world." So in this story, yes, Starlight did in fact know exactly what she was doing. Which is why we're all eager to hear her explanation for why she did it anyway.
Rarity talking with her 500 year old alternate universe vampire self? You can't go wrong with a concept like that, and it was executed beautifully!