753299 I see having a guard who was trained by Shining Armor as a replacement before he goes to the Crystal Empire to fit in quite nicely with canon, and still make for an interesting story based on the difficulties they encounter.

If their training began at a record young age, had absolutely no connection, and has a red coat, black mane combination though, you're getting into Sue territory with that.

753320
I suppose u were anwsering me?

753299

Huh, strange. I wasn't notified of this reply.

In and of itself, no. It's not a Mary Sue trait. But like 753320 said, all of the stuff he added would make it a Mary Sue.

-Tricondon

753336
Ok, cool! ^^

753335 Yeah, I was answering you, good luck, bub.

Well i'm back, and I think I have fleshed out my story a bit better. My character in it is still an Alicorn from a different world. Changed the U.S.A. to The Council. Silver is still an unknown character, as I didn't want to shout out her whole character in on chapter...though she is scard about being hunted and dosn't know that she is in a different ponyverse. Twilight would think shes just a bit wrong in the head due to how she was found, so no problem with that there.

859528

Man, I didn't even realize you'd posted here. I apologize; school gets in the way of pony sometimes.

Would you mind refreshing my memory of your fic and what, precisely, I found wrong with it?

-Tricondon

Well. That was an impressively big thread.

880391

I aim to inform. Also, psh. Have you seen the Ponyville Chaos RP thread? 60000 comments! That's just insane.

-Tricondon

The whole "Dragon-Unicorn" hybrid isn't exactly a Mary Sue. In fact, it actually figures into Asian Mythology as a creature called a Kirin.

882336

That means nothing, since MLP isn't centered around Asian mythology.

882336>>882563

Agreed. If anything, MLP is centered more around Roman or Greek mythology; this is especially noticeable in Season 2's Hearths Warming Eve. The pegasi are wearing what is obviously inspired by Spartan armour, to say nothing of the coliseum seen in Season 1's Sonic Rainboom. I am fully aware of other mythologies, but elected to remain within the possible parallel the show seems to be evoking.

-Tricondon

This thread is very helpful and hopefully I'll remember at least some of this if I end up writing. Still kinda on the fence on the subject and being a total newbie to the whole writing thing, doesn't really tip in favor for starting a story .

Thanks anyway for the tips .

Minor nick pick, aren't the mane six the bearers of the elements. I'm pretty sure they are addressed in the show as the bearers of the elements and not as the actual elements of harmony. I keep seeing this in so many stories and kinda rubs me in the wrong because I'm fairly sure that each of the main six only represent one of the elements, that are the five shiny gemstone necklaces + tiara.

I'm a little worried my OC is too much of a MS. Maybe I shouldn't be, as most of the big ticket items described everywhere that I look the term Mary Sue up don't seem to fit, but still...
I'd appreciate it if someone could take a look at him. (Warning, kinda long. 31k words)
http://www.fimfiction.net/chapter/303955
Password: incomplete

Kinda scratching my head here, as romance is a big part of it, but I don't want to so far it's just silly or something. I'm having a hard time figuring out what I've shown because its romance, and what I've shown just because its the character. It's so hard to tell when you're new...

Very nice thread by the way, thanks for starting it.

920099 I won't read 31k words to give advice, but if you're concerned your character is a Mary Sue because of a romance with a canon character, ask yourself some questions about the relationship and the character.

Which character are they involved with? More than one? If so, are herds common in your worlds setting? If you answered yes to the second question and no to the third one, that's a strike for Mary Sue.

Does the character that you have in a relationship with your OC think of them constantly in a glowing light? If yes, that's a strike for Mary Sue.

Did the relationship start off with the canon character actively pursuing your character for no reason? If yes, that's a strike for Mary Sue.

Do the partners share any commonalities with similar hobbies, upbringings, or attitudes regarding life? If not, do these differences tend to complement one another?" If no to the first and second questions, that's a strike for Mary Sue.

920427
I think I'm worrying too much.

Only 1 character is involved with my OC.
Canon character does not think of OC in a 'glowing light'. In fact they argue on several occasions at least.
Relationship doesn't start off with OC being pursued romantically.
Yes, they share similar hobbies and upbringings.

Also, I took a quiz here:http://www.springhole.net/writing/marysue.htm
Scored between a -3 and +1 depending on how the rest of my story plays out.

I've tried very hard to portray their romance realistically as best I can given the context of the story. Hope I've done a decent job.

921531 *Whistles* Wow, negative 3? Yep, with that you have plenty of working room to make your character engaging for the reader.

921749

Scratch that, there was an issue with the site and one of my browser addons. I actually scored a 10-12.

921905 Sounds like you've struck the right balance between the two extremes of Suism and being boring.

My character is a mute flightless pegasus with a loving mother(who is dating Twilight) and who has wonderful drawing skills. Marysue?

986595 How does the character behave?

986638 childish, but a bit ahead of age.

Don't know if my OC characters are Mary Sues... can't i get a bit of help?
First I'll say his name:
Simian Dibar (too obvious?)
I describe him briefly in chapter 3 of my story, The fall of Saddale titled the slave boy. if you want to know about him look there.
I mean him to be legitimately scary, as shown in his introductory flashback.
And, of course, I'm constantly trying to describe him like an animal (Dibar is rabid spelt backwards, slowmo)
So, is he a goodun?

1214639

Oh man, sorry. Didn't realize someone asked a question. I gotta keep better tabs on things in here...

Could you explain the intended meaning behind his name? On that note, sdrawkcab names often tend not to be so clever as they are lazy. I myself prefer anagrams. It makes the reader feel smart if they manage to decode it. An exception to this rule is when you have...I'm sure there's a term for it, but it escapes me. Bob is a palindrome, so spelling it backwards would still be 'Bob'. If your character is named 'Elan' however, his name backwards would be 'Nale'. Both are still proper names and you could easily throw your reader for a loop.

...hmm, I think I went off on a bit of a tangent there. Ah, well. I like tangents.

If you wouldn't mind, could you describe Simian here? I've got a bit much on my plate as of late to go trawling through text at a whim.

-Tricondon

I have a problem with this interpretation of the Mary Sue concept. Defining it only via the character in question makes far too many characters Mary Sues, and it becomes totally unclear whether a Mary Sue is bad or not.

Overpowered, world-bending, story-driven characters are successful. Immensely so. Harry Potter is a bland kid that does nothing except watch the world bend to his will. Superman is so super, you need to invent an anti-super rare material to make him vulnerable. Luke Skywalker can pull off anything by being the good guy. And James Bond makes statistics itself wipe his floor while he has fun with it's girlfriend. Don't get me started on anime.

Now, one can argue that these characters aren't good, it's just the ignorant masses. But, thinking just in terms of power, attention, and the character design in isolation, Mary Sues are everywhere! A multicolored, powerful alicorn -- the example used here -- is pretty much a tame version of Discord. But would anyone call Discord a Mary Sue? It hardly happens, because people call characters Mary Sue only if they don't like them, don't find them credible, or think they are decremental to the story. And maybe this is going in the right direction.

How about this attempt at a definition: a Mary Sue is a character that short-cuts interesting story paths in favor of less interesting ones, either by being too perfect, or by having the world inexplicably bend to her (or his) will.

One could make a matching, similar definition: A Deus Ex Machina is an unpredictable story element that short-cuts a story path in favor of a less interesting or credible one.

E.g.: In the cartoon Avatar, Toph suddenly learns to bend metal, thus skips a confrontation with her parents, ends an ongoing story about her abduction, and ruins Avatar's magic system, all while making her entire culture look like idiots. I don't care whether we call her a Mary Sue or the metal-bending a Deus Ex Machina; it's just a naming preference. I wanted to see the story unfold, not her just going brat-mode Superman to solve everything.

I think the character itself doesn't answer the Mary Sue question. The important part is how the world and story interacts with it. A story should avoid bland short-cuts out of interesting situations.

I admit, I'm rationalizing here, 'cause I want to blatantly violate the "alien Mary Sue" case by having an earth pony alchemist execute powerful magic. I could now start to argue why, but I'd rather stick to the general case. Intentions aside, the Mary Sue problem does very much depend on the context, or doesn't it?

2406028
Absolutely agree. Its important not to mistake the symptoms (excessive specialness, massive power, etc.) for the underlying illness: author favoritism displayed through the narrative.

After reading this over: I really think I need some help still.

I just don't know if my human OC is becoming a "Mary Sue"

I mean currently, I don't know if he is going down that path or not. I REALLY do not want him to become this. I want to avoid it at all costs, yet I have these plans and I don't know if they conflict with this or not.

Please, I need some help here. The last thing I want is Christian to become this. (That's his name FYI)

So if anyone could give me some help I would appreciate it. Thank you so much.

A pony with asthma wouldn't last long in an extended fight or a chase. That's a good flaw. There's always the risk that he'd have to stop to catch his breath.

This is actually exactly what I have for a character, though it's not for a pony. But good list, definitely will have to refer to here whenever I make a new OC... Though I probably won't anytime soon,

390099 390104
This will be very useful (if I ever write an OC fanfiction). Good job on making it though. It as a good, informative read.

I like this thread. It's very helpful.

390099 About the Alicorn issues, what if the Alicorns were not from Equestria?
Not over-powered, but able to hold their own in a fight against opponents that are stronger. And nothing ever goes their way very easily.
Sound like Mary Sues/ Gary Stu's?

3378254

On the surface I'd say no. I'd need more details before making a veritable claim one way or the other.

2406028 2416990

Both good points that I should really consider adding in somehow. St, been so long since I went over this thing...

-Tricondon

3378838 I'll send the link

390099
Who is Mary and why do people keep trying to sue her?
Leave her and her husband Gary alone.

3382113
Now I want to write a story about Rosemary, a usually soft-spoken and timid pegasus (don't tell anyone, but she will turn out to be Fluttershy's long-lost sister in chapter 5), who was once bitten by a radioactive paralegal, such that whenever she's in heat she turns into an enormous green-coated monster who goes on litigious rampages shouting "MARY SUE!" at everything and everypony.

390099

"So. There’s this person. They’re tragically orphaned and richer than anyone on the planet. Every person they meet falls in love with them, but in between torrid romances they reject them all because they are dedicated to what is Pure and Good. They have genius-level intellect, Olympic-athlete level abilities and incredible good looks. They are consumed by terrible angst, but this only makes people want them more. They have no superhuman abilities, yet they are more competent than their superhuman friends and defeats superhumans with ease. They have unshakably loyal friends and allies, despite the fact they treat them pretty badly. They fear and respect them, and defer to their orders. Everyone is obsessed with them, even their enemies are attracted to them. They can plan ahead for anything and they are generally right with any conclusion they make. People who defy them are inevitably wrong.

Mary Sue, right?

I think I read somethign like this from you before, you're funny 8'D
I am, sadly guilty of some of these... but eh, my character is liked well enough, and I'll take some of this to heart for later characters.

Very helpful and good job.