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I know that I keep spamming about this a lot and it's getting very annoying, but what's wrong with my OC? I tried to make him in a great, popular, sympathetic, and redeemable antagonist/anti-hero/anti-villain, but he comes across as more meh than anything.
Some people seem to really like him as a relatable and well-written antagonist, some think that he can't work the way he is, if at all, and isn't sympathetic at all, as well as think that I should either start over or scrap him entirely, and others just think of him as meh or average overall.
I'm also trying to think of a great story for him to be in, but I'm also having trouble with that as well.
So, can somebody tell me what's wrong with him and what I need to do in order to better improve both his character and story?
Here's a link to his wiki page:
Odium
7372364
Maybe actually include a description/rundown so we can judge?
7372364
7372390 Obsidian has a very good point. It's hard for us to give you feedback on a character if we don't know who/what the character is.
7372390
Sorry about that. Here's my OC's wiki page: Odium.
7372392
Sorry about that. Here's my OC's wiki page: Odium.
7372364
Your problem is that you're creating a Mary Sue.
Most people don't really understand what a Mary Sue is, at its core. It's not about creating a character with any specific set of attributes, or lack thereof, or about creating a "great, popular, sympathetic, and redeemable antagonist/anti-hero/anti-villain." Those are symptomatic issues, but more deeply, it's really about a fundamental attitude toward and reason for writing. That is to say, it seems like you want to create a character first, then find (or contrive) stories to be about that character, in order to serve and promote the character. That's the definition of a Mary Sue.
Good stories and good characters don't work that way.
7372508
Okay. Sorry about that. How do I fix that?
7372517
I don't know. What is your goal here?
7372617
What do you mean?
7372644
I mean, what does "fix that" mean? What are you trying to fix?
7372654
Sorry to ask this, but where do you see "fix that"?
7372678
in
7372517
7372678
If I need to make it clearer, you asked "how can I fix that?" in one of your earlier comments.
7372684
Oh. Okay. How do I make Odium less of a Mary Sue? Also, why do you think he's a Mary Sue? He has a lot of flaws and weaknesses as well as strengths and abilities. Sorry if I'm being rude, though.
7372685
Thanks, ThePinkedWonder.
7372687
The first step towards somewhat fixing that is planning out your story properly, focusing primarily on the plot, driving conflict, et cetera and not the characters. If you do that, you’ll see that the story will shape the characters and push them where they need to be. If you go the other way and focus on your characters instead, then you are really likely to end up with a story that will twist and bend just to show off your character, which is almost a sure way to decrease the story’s quality.
I mostly just rephrased Winston’s earlier comment, to be honest.
7372717
Okay. I'm trying to think of a great and proper rewrite for my story. I have a lot of story-writing templates and am doing a lot of research, planning, and studying on how to write a great plot, but I'm having trouble coming up with a great hook and three-act structure in mind.
7372720
That’s good to hear. And yes, hook is important, though by far not every story has to adhere to the three-act structure. Albeit it’s rather useful for teaching you how to think about story mechanics and the like.
7372722
Okay. Thanks.
7372517 I told you once before to not make writing about trying to force out a story about a single character, and to treat stories as a personal development thing. My advice was to, frankly, stop trying to write this character. The reason I gave that advice was so that, instead of being stuck trying to find a way to fix this broken creation of yours, you'd be able to work on a new project, move on, and actually get some practical experience.
Unsurprisingly, this didn't happen, and also unsurprisingly, you are still stuck.
You want my advice again? Get rid of Odium. Start a new project. Don't try making it the best thing ever; just plan out a story you think is interesting (note: interesting =/= 'good'). Get practice. Git gud. This character is actively holding you back and preventing you from progressing as a writer. Do not try to 'fix' him. Improve yourself until you realise that he's not worth fixing. Odium has leeched years off your personal progress; if I were you, I wouldn't let him leech a second more.
I realise I must sound very, very grumpy and miserable, and this will be a very controversial comment to make, but honestly, I've seen you get advice on character writing and you've not really responded very well; this isn't unheard of, because some folks don't learn as well through forums and will instead improve through trial, error, and practice. I think it's time for the nuclear option. You might be able to write good characters one day, but to do that you need some practice, experience, and frankly, fun, and I don't see you getting that whilst clinging onto an old character that, the more you try to fix, the more he breaks.
But hey; maybe there's still a chance some other writer with more grit and creativity than me is able to give you the advice you need to magically turn this around and make the character more successful. But I'm not that amazing writer; I'm just me.
7372767
Thanks, HapHazred. I'll focus on the story. I've got a lot of story-writing templates and I'm doing a lot of research, planning, and studying in order to make a great story. I'm just having trouble thinking of a great hook and three-act structure, though.
7372789
I know the three-act structure is useful, like for pacing and whatever, but it's not essential to writing a story. You don't even need it to write a good/great story. I never even thought about that three-act method with any of my stories. All you really need is to first come up with the general idea of the story (I.E. what it's about and what happens) then come up with what happens first, then what happens next, then what happens next, and so on, or at least an idea of it, then work on hammering out the details. Sometimes, that would require writing the story to figure out if something can really work, or if it should be adjusted.
It's also worth noting something else, and someone can point out if this isn't quite accurate. But, I know you said you were going to rewrite the story to try to make it better, but that can only really work if you know what's wrong with the story and have ideas on how to fix it--otherwise, you'll stay stuck no matter what you do. Also, simply editing the story to take care of plotholes and issues isn't the same as actually rewriting the story.
For starters, to rewrite a story, and it's the whole story, you first have to write the whole story. For instance, you could rewrite a chapter or two, but not actually rewrite the overall story if most of it stays the same.
7372789
And another thing. I didn't even think about this when I wrote that last comment, so that comment might not even matter anymore. I even thought of deleting it, but I'd leave it up.
What you said to HapHazred:
What HapHazred said that you responded to:
HapHazred said to not worry about writing or planning a good (or great) story, but just plan one you think is interesting, so it may or may not actually be "good". However, you'll "git gud" from actually writing stories. Your response suggested that you weren't actually listening to him, or at least wasn't going to take the part of the advice about not trying to write a good story but instead one you think is interesting, and go from there.
If that wasn't enough, were you going to write something brand new (what Hap also suggested), or were you going to try to plan out that Odium story? if you're now planning to write a different story, you did at least listen to him there. If you're still planning to plan out that Odium story and still stuck on trying to write this great story (not one you think is interesting enough to write) then you didn't, and that would be showing HapHazred disrespect by talking like you're taking his advice, but blatantly not.
If you're not sure what the difference would be, if you're taking Hap's advice for real, your mindset should now be something like this:
Note the "I"s. That's important, because you should be focused on what you want to happen. Another way to look at it is to try to plan out a story that you would personally want to read.
However, your mindset should NOT be something like this, if you're actually following Hap's advice:
That said, you don't have to follow that advice if you really don't want to; even Hap would say the same thing if I know him as I think I do. Just don't talk like you are if you're really not.
7372845
Okay. Thanks, ThePinkedWonder. I'm trying to think of a different story to write at the moment. I just can't think of an interesting idea to write. I know I'm supposed to do this on my own, but can you help me think of an interesting idea to write?
7372928
If you're looking for story ideas, ask Bad Dragon. He has a LOT of ideas that he has actively offered others to take. https://www.fimfiction.net/user/127717/Bad+Dragon.
As for coming up with interesting ideas in particular, that's far easier said than done. First is that "interesting" is subjective. But, when someone says "interesting", they tend to mean a story with elements that either haven't been done, or something that isn't done a lot.
If you want to go this route, the only real way to figure out what isn't done much (if at all) is to just read a lot of stories, or at least check out the premise of many stories, and see if you can find variations that are rare. Sometimes, someone might comment on something that isn't done a lot, either in groups or in comments of stories, so see if you can find those comments too. One thing I know is uncommon are Anon-A-Miss stories where the CMC didn't frame Sunset, even though Anon-A-Miss stories themselves (many are fix-fics) are very common. If you can see something that's done a lot, see if you can find a way to subvert it, or take it in a unusual direction.
And THEN, even if you do this, you'll still have to want to write it, and no one can help with that. In fact, a number of the suggestions you got for that Odium story could potentially make for quite interesting stories, but you just didn't want to write it that way, or wasn't sure how. This is why it's far, far, FAR easier to just write something you want to write, not what could be "interesting".
Lastly, you have to have to be able to write any story ideas you think it: just coming up with it isn't enough. Not even close, but this is a problem other writers have had (or do have) too. Experience plays a role, but if you don't have the experience, obviously it can't help. In this case, the best way to write a story is simply to write one you'll want to read, and just do the best you can. Editors can help, but you still have to know what you want as a story (Nope, just wanting an interesting or rarely done story isn't enough, since that can look in thousands of different ways), and it has to something that editor can handle.
Now, some story ideas I've come up with came from something I saw in other stories, so you could try using other stories as inspiration. For instance, my "Too Many Marefriends (and Wives)" story was inspired by this story.
- MLP: FiM
- Romance
- Comedy
- Random
You are the only human in Equestria, and everypony is trying to kiss you at Ponyville's Hearth's Warming Party! What is going on!?I've even used my own stories as inspirations for others. The idea for my "Twilight Sparkle Marries a Book (Seriously, Twilight?!)" came from a joke from "Princess Cadance Saves Equestria (Wait, What?!)" about Twilight wanting to marry a book. In fact, The "Princess Cadance Saves Equestria (Wait, What?!)" story was itself inspired off a line in my "The Ultima" story. where the narrator joked about that might happen if Cadance had more power in the season 9 premiere. This is itself a reason to write some stories, so you could try something like this too.
Lastly, Hap mentioned this too, but try writing more simple, one-shot stories for a while. Those are not only much easier to write, but it can help improve your skill of writing stories in general. That would later help with writing longer, more difficult stories. In other words, you going to have to put in work first.
In short, there's no quick, easy way to writing an interesting story from the get-go, some luck is needed too, and no one can really tell you how to do it. There's also an element that you can't do much about: some writers just have an easier time thinking up interesting stories than others that go beyond just having experience. This is more of an inmate ability that can't be taught.
7372928 Let me tell you how I tend to come up with ideas.
I am a man who consumes a fair bit of stories. Not so much mlp fanfiction, to be truthful, but certainly films, anime, cartoons, videogames, and youtube videos, which often reference stories. I used to consume a lot more mlp fanfics, but truthfully, it became harder to read a lot of them after I became serious about writing them.
Oftentimes two things happen; I either get frustrated with what I view as my entertainment not giving me something I think would be cool, or I get really hyped about something I think is awesome and want to see more of it, often in different contexts. This is what I tend to make my stories about.
I wrote Just like Me because I thought that it was really cool to have a bad person that was both aware of this but also trying to put their cruel mentality to greater purpose. I wrote Not My Rescuer because I was frustrated at a lack of a pairing that I felt was cool, if not very obvious, and hyped to write in a very evocative voice. I wrote my very first story (which is shit, by the way) because I was upset at a lack of interesting and unique AppleDash stories, and decided to take a decidedly innovative (a word I use generously) angle in which Rainbow was outright terrified of Applejack for... reasons I didn't write very well. Oh well. It got the job done.
Point being, I know myself very well, and I know what I want to see in stories. I look inward for my motivation, and use that to fuel my stories. Look to what frustrates you and what excites you; if you combine both, you will find at least half of a good idea. Probably.
7373021
Thanks, HapHazred.
7372964
Thanks, ThePinkedWonder.
7372964
I think I have a story idea. There's a video review from the FOB Equestria Youtube channel (Check it out if you haven't. It's very great). It's about No Second Prances and Firebrand talks about how no one has made a fanfiction about Starlight and Angel Bunny yet, since he saw that Angel Bunny liked Starlight in that episode.
So I figured that I could be one of the, if not possibly the, first one to make that in an interesting way. What do you think?
7373049
A Starlight & Angel Bunny story is one I've never seen before either, so that could be your answer to a story that hasn't been done before, or if it has, it's a very rare story.
Now you just have to come up with a story that uses those two.
7373063
I'm working on it right now. It's a work in progress and if you don't want to be spoiled, you can tell me, but here's the premise of it so far:
It's a comedy, slice of life story where Angel tries to get as much attention and snuggles from Starlight as possible after Fluttershy asks Starlight to pet-sit him along with the other animals while she's away, but Starlight is too oblivious to notice what he's trying to do.
Now all I have to do is one of the, if not the, hardest things I've ever tried to do in order to make it a great comedy story: the comedy itself.
7373072
I sometimes seen some say comedies is one of the hardest genres because it's possibly the most subjective of them all. That makes giving advice for it tricky.
What I always do is, basically, think of something I think is funny, and build on it. That's the #1 thing I always do with my comedies over all else, even before thinking if it's interesting or not. Only, ONLY, if I think that the story's funny is when I even wonder if it's interesting.
If I think of an idea that I want to be a comedy, but I can't of a way to make it funny (to me), I'll scratch the story and move on to the next story. Or, just put it on hold and see if something comes to me later.
7373099
Okay, thanks.