Hi everypony. We have seen Twilight's human double now. But have you thought of where Sunset's double might be? Popular Youtube brony Dr. Wolf has a theory why we havent seen nor heard of her yet.

I don't agree with this theory, but it seems like a valid one. I think she is just at a different school like human! Twilight.

So what are your opinions about this? I would love to hear what you this.

4575346
Personally my theory for ponies that don't seem to have human doubles (and vice versa) is: miscarriage.

Not pleasant perhaps, but realistic.

4575346 I've just assumed that Human!Sunset is off at another school. Simplest explanation, opens up the most storyline possibilities.

I don't remember if/where I've written this theory, but I'm of the mind that Sunset Shimmer created the human world the instant she stepped through the portal, and that the second she did is the second Starswirl's spell sent the sirens there too.

Basically, I'm thinking that in tampering with magic she didn't understand, she poked a little hole in reality, with reality quickly moving to fix that hole to the best of its ability by whatever cosmic forces govern this madness stitching together a world that Sunset could adapt to without too much trouble, but at the same time denied her what she was after; supreme magical power. That, I think, would set the stage for her reformation, because if she never left the new world, her struggle for that kind of power was essentially hopeless.

That this may have eventually worked on the Dazzlings, if not for a particular light show, may be why they were thrown through time and space to wind up in the same world, as well. Same basic problem as Sunset, same cosmic solution to slowly break their spirits through sheer futility of their efforts, with neither case panning out as may have been intended.

Anyway, if this is the case, then the Sunset we know would probably be the only one, as it's her world, whether she knows it or not. That was the short version, did any of that make any kind of sense?

4575497 A little bit. Before Rainbow Rocks I believed Twilight was the only version of herself.

I honestly quite like the theory that when Pony Sunset went through the portal, she tracked down the Human Sunset and kidnapped her, trapping her inside her own house. That would explain how Pony Sunset has actually been surviving in this world: she had her own house and money and stuff, basically because she threatened her human counterpart to the point of killing her. Sounds dark, but so was Dr.Wolf's so yeah. This theory, if we turn back to when Pony Sunset becomes nice, means we will never see the Human Sunset, as she understands there can't be two of her. So, human Sunset leaves, another country or something, and Pony Sunset get's her life forever. It works, but as I said, we will never see Human Sunset if this it true. Which it probably isn't but ya know. Theories.

4575391
Realistic, yes, but then again, Hasbro has never said to us that Sunset doesn't have a human counterpart. Maybe we just haven't seen them. It'd be interesting to see what they can come up with. Maybe since Sunset Shimmer came into the human world (apparently) years before and stayed there longer than a normal human (once again, apparently) then she probably beat her Human counterpart into the world, in other words, Human Sunset has not actually been born. That'll be a shock XDDD

4575681 Hold up. Has Hasbro ever said Sunset came the same way as the Sirens? All that was explained was Sunset was Celestia's student before Twilight and she went through the mirror to get away from Celestia because she had a thirst for power.

4575860
Have they ever not? I mean, we all know from the comics that Sunset Shimmer escaped through the portal herself, and we know from the movie that Sunset Shimmer started her studies around the same time Twilight did, which makes sense that she would be very young. But they didn't remember this, and in the comic, you'll see a young Twilight in the background while Sunset is rejecting friendship. Only, the 'friends' she has are all Twilight's friends in that episode in season 5 or whatever. So it doesn't make sense, Sunset would've been the same age almost as Twilight, and probably went through the portal in time to start her three/four years of school. But the possibility of beating her human counterpart to the human world still stands.

4575860
Actually, now that I think about it, Hasbro stated that Sunset started around the same time as Twilight. They never said that Sunset was a filly when she started. So, Sunset could've started as a teenager, while Twilight was a filly. (This still doesn't explain her friends, but that was a mistake, so it doesn't matter.) I vote that Sunset was an adult/teen while Twilight was young, and she left when Twilight was still sort of young, meaning that she could've easily beat her human counterpart into the world, which would explain why we've never seen. Basing it on this theory, the real human Sunset could be like 3 years old.

For my part, I've slowly but surely become a fan of the theory that the reason we don't see the human Sunset Shimmer in the movies is because we're already seeing her: that Sunset was born in the human world, somehow came through the portal to the pony world as either a baby or a young child (young enough at least to not remember where she came from; I'm not touching Celestia altering her memories with a ten foot pole), and then returned to the human world unknowingly when she fled through the mirror before the events of the EQ movies.

Obviously there are some holes, the biggest being how Sunset made the transition from the human world to the pony world, and if she did what happened to her birth parents in the process. But as I remember the crew mentioning, not all ponies have human counterparts and not all humans have pony counterparts, so it's perfectly possible that Sunset may not have a human counterpart at all. I just like the idea of her being born in the human world because it introduces an interesting duality to her character and could have some fun implications for her arc.

4575346
Interesting, but doesn't work because:

(1) Pinkie specifically mentioned to Twilight in EQG1 that she looks just like a girl she knows who lives in another city, thereby explaining why human Twi wasn't around in EQG1.
(2) If Sunset is a human who got mind-jacked by her pony counterpart for so many years, then wouldn't her family be looking for her? Wouldn't the police be looking for her? She's not exactly hiding herself; she should have been found already.
(3) If pony Sunset is knowingly living human Sunset's life (in her house, with her parents, etc), then that makes her an evil character who has never reformed.

4575681
That's certainly possible. The timeline between the two worlds seems flexible. Principal Celestia is presumably not thousands of years old like her pony counterpart, and is actually younger than human Granny Smith. While we know from Family Appreciation Day that pony Granny Smith is younger than Princess Celestia.

I think the ultimate answer is: "timey wimey stuff" *waves hands mysteriously.

4576260
Yeah. So let's say if Celestia went in, like, years ago, her human self would not have been alive.

First off the background of Equestria has a 80/20 female/male population ratio.
Canterlot high very noticiably has a 50/50 female/male ratio.

this means there must be male characters on earthquestria without female counterparts
And as someone noted Granny smith is older than Celestia.

Also because of what we know of time(Namely Information transmitted backwards through time doesn't cause paradoxes), and season 4 proved that Rainbow Friendship God is Atemporal knowing the future(it knew discord would have the last key at the last moment.)

The simplest answer is....
Earthquestria's Sunset was born a pony in Equestria, and because she would move to Earthquestria redeem herself and taste the rainbow. Sunset's choices made an instance of herself being born during that time period on that world not happen.

4576260
The best headcanon explanation I've heard, is that when you step into the other world, you assume the appearance and age of your counterpart. That's how Twilight Sparkle, a 21+ y/o pony, becomes 16-18 y/o when she goes to Canterlot High (not a huge difference but still). This is even more drastic for Sunset, who is supposedly older than pony Twilight but the same age as her at CH.

What that would mean for Princess Celestia if she had visited the human world 100 yrs ago, I have no idea. But presumably she has done so briefly some time in the past, based on what she told pony Twilight in EQG1.

According to this explanation, then, the human Sunset is currently an 18 y/o girl alive somewhere in the world.

4576380

this means there must be male characters on earthquestria without female counterparts

Observed gender ratios mean nothing.
Equestria does not canonically have a lopsided gender ratio. Youtube bloggers had correctly proposed that we don't see many stallions because (1) they're not the focus of the show, and (2) they're off in the fields working rather than hanging around the Ponyville square.
The gender ratio in Canterlot High does not have to reflect the gender ratio of its town/ city/ nation/ continent/ world, at all.

Also because of what we know of time(Namely Information transmitted backwards through time doesn't cause paradoxes)

Do you mean in the show, or real theoretical physics?

season 4 proved that Rainbow Friendship God is Atemporal knowing the future

It proves neither. There may or may not be an entity analogous to YHWH. Harmony may or may not be conscious.

Sunset's choices made an instance of herself being born during that time period on that world not happen.

Then why was human Twilight born?

4576383

The best headcanon explanation I've heard, is that when you step into the other world, you assume the appearance and age of your counterpart. That's how Twilight Sparkle, a 21+ y/o pony, becomes 16-18 y/o when she goes to Canterlot High (not a huge difference but still). This is even more drastic for Sunset, who is supposedly older than pony Twilight but the same age as her at CH.

This is how I've been treating it. Doesn't quite explain where the clothes come from though. Or what would happen to like, say, a cellphone in your pocket if you go to pony world.

Otherwise, the fic I've been working on and is nearly ready deals pretty heavily with the concept of double-sunset.

4575346 I can actually see that. And to me it would probably make the most sense.

4576383

What that would mean for Princess Celestia if she had visited the human world 100 yrs ago, I have no idea. But presumably she has done so briefly some time in the past, based on what she told pony Twilight in EQG1.

It's likely 1 of 2 things:

1- Principal Celestia and Vice Principal Luna are secretly immortal.

2- It's Nurse Joy and Officer Jenny again, but with two sisters who's daughters look exactly like them.

4575346
Human Sunset is living in another place.
Probably Manehattan.

4576439
Huh. You have a good point there. I mean, Hasbro clearly isn't worried or doesn't care because they know that MLP or EG is supposed to be a kids show, so Twilight would've just gone through the portal with clothes, no theories there. But you know what I thought once? I focused on the fact that when she went through the portal to the human world, Twilight was wearing clothes that matched her fur and colours back in the pony world. So, I wondered, why is that when she went back after the Fall formal, wearing a completely different dress, she still had her normal colours? I mean, the answer is obvious, but still, the same thing applies when she arrives back in Rainbow Rocks, and the dress is gone. Um....okay? Where'd it go? Did it just...dissapear? Gone, like, never see it again gone? Okay....
As for the mobile phone, well...either it would dissapear just like the dress did (except this might actually come back) in the pocket it was in, or it would come through and fall to the ground. But, so far, we've never seen any human go through the portal, aside from the two who already belonged in the pony world, and also, most of the humans always wear the same clothes. I wonder if the clothes they wear will determine their pony look? Hm....

Anyway, this barely has anything to do with the other Sunset XDDD

4576853
I try not to go down the route of "the mirror decided for Twilight what she should wear as a human" or "the writers decided for Twilight what she should wear as a human." When playing the headcanon game, those aren't acceptable answers as they introduce additional variables.

I think once again, the mirror was using the human version as its template for the pony version. Pony Twilight was given the human form that human Twilight has. Pony Twilight's clothes are therefore derived from what human Twilight wishes she's wearing, which may or may not be in human Twilight's actual wardrobe.

4576902
Of course it's not an acceptable answer, but it's still an answer, and people can choose to think that and move on. Some things are just too hard to work out without more info. And I don't think Hasbro's gonna give a crash course on the mirror.

My first thought was what Human Twilight would look like if she went through the portal XDDDD Nice one though~

4575346
I go with the simplest solution, like some of the others, Sunny is on the other side of the country. Her mother still works at CHS but they Skype at least twice a week.

4577183 You think Celestia is Sunset's mother too?

4577283
Yes in both cases

4577294 I always thought Celestia adopted Sunset after she became her student.

4577319
Daughter by blood

4576415

Observed gender ratios mean nothing.

I would argue making them that lopsided intentionally in pretty much all shots then undoing that for CHS shows well intent.

Do you mean in the show, or real theoretical physics?

In the show. Twilight used time travel to send information(herself) back which caused effects.

It proves neither. There may or may not be an entity analogous to YHWH. Harmony may or may not be conscious.

Dao or Brahmin, Not YHWH.
Also never claimed it was conscious just had access to information Atemporally, though considering how capricious The Rainbow is when summoned, but that's an argument for another time.

Then why was human Twilight born?

Did Pony Twilight choose earth?

4577748

I would argue making them that lopsided intentionally in pretty much all shots then undoing that for CHS shows well intent.

There's no creative intent. Studio DHX was simply using their standard pony templates to make crowds of bg ponies. In season 1, they didn't have much variety to choose from, so they usually used the mare template and re-colored it a gazillion ways.

In the show. Twilight used time travel to send information(herself) back which caused effects.

It was a closed timelike curve, which is consistent with relativity and does not introduce paradoxes.

Also never claimed it was conscious just had access to information Atemporally, though considering how capricious The Rainbow is when summoned,

Harmony itself does not need to be conscious. Rather, any anthropomorphic qualities which it exhibits may simply be a gestalt phenomenon resulting from the collective subconscious will of the Bearers.

Did Pony Twilight choose earth?

If every choice is atemporal, then somepony else who eventually came into the world and used Harmony should have prevented that pony's counterpart from being born, following your headcanon.

That said, at least you don't think Sunset is Celestia's biological daughter. Ugh.

4579360

It was a closed timelike curve, which is consistent with relativity and does not introduce paradoxes.

That's what i'm saying. Time travel is self consistent.

Harmony itself does not need to be conscious. Rather, any anthropomorphic qualities which it exhibits may simply be a gestalt phenomenon resulting from the collective subconscious will of the Bearers.

Banishment of Luna.
The Keys&Chest. (Remember the keys were determined before the mane six found them and it was known they would need them.)

4586300

Banishment of Luna.

What about it?

The Keys&Chest.

The tree could be conscious, but the rainbow power spell effects don't have to be. Just as Excalibur isn't conscious just because it's a magic sword which responded to Arthur pulling on it.

4576902 My theory on Twilight's clothes after going through the mirror is that the mirror created them as a reflection of her personality - despite being a princess, she still thinks of herself as a student, and her outfit just screamed 'schoolgirl' to me.

I think that Sunset Shimmer pushed her human self into the mirror and took her place

4586502

What about it?

Pretty sure that has nothing to do with Celestia's desires.
Likewise her redemption the second time.

The tree could be conscious, but the rainbow power spell effects don't have to be. Just as Excalibur isn't conscious just because it's a magic sword which responded to Arthur pulling on it.

The tree was near dead when the chest was created.
And the point is the rainbow power exists where the tree doesn't.

4575346 Seems legit. It sounds like the idea of matter not being able to be in two places at once. It makes sense that Sunset and Twilight would share the body of their human counterpart to avoid there being two Sunsets or two Twilights which is impossible by physics. The human world obviously works more according to understood physics than Equestria does so this would make sense, at least in terms of going to the human world. I do think you could have a human go to Equestria and meet their pony counterpart. The mirror pool episode shows that, at least in Equestria, a pony can be duplicated and even be in two places at once. Meaning a human could meet their pony counterpart in Equestria. But not in the human world which has different laws of nature and physics which make that impossible.

But it is dark as this raises the question about the original human Sunset and what happened to her if this is true. It could mean she is in a state of limbo or even dead and replaced by pony Sunset. Or the two merged completely and are now one and the same and there will always be one Sunset now regardless of which side of the portal she is on.

Hmm...Perhaps she now has a duel personality since she shares bodies with the original human Sunset and you pull a Gollum/Smeagol from LOTR.

4587335

Pretty sure that has nothing to do with Celestia's desires.

Considering that Celestia was weeping when she shot NMM, she certainly wasn't thinking "This beam will remove NMM and give me back regular Luna, woot problem solved." The banishment, or something to that end, is likely intentional.

Likewise her redemption the second time.

Like I said, subconscious will. The Bearers supply the anima for a force which has no thoughts of its own.

The tree was near dead when the chest was created. And the point is the rainbow power exists where the tree doesn't.

It is pretty much canon that the power can be separated from the tree, as that is why the tree was dying in the first place. I don't see the leap in logic suggesting that the power has a mind.

4588289

Like I said, subconscious will. The Bearers supply the anima for a force which has no thoughts of its own.

So the bearer's will was what to mind rape Luna? Why would they even want that? they just wanted to be rid of nightmare moon.
Also It's text on multiple occasions that the rainbow power cannot be controlled, period, discussion over. And anyone who attempts to fails.

It is pretty much canon that the power can be separated from the tree, as that is why the tree was dying in the first place. I don't see the leap in logic suggesting that the power has a mind.

It can determine if it's users are worthy.
It cannot be controlled by any force or will.
It created the chest had foreknowledge of what the keys were, what they would be used for, and created Twilight's castle.

4588935

So the bearer's will was what to mind rape Luna?
Why would they even want that?
they just wanted to be rid of nightmare moon.

(1) Strawman.
(2) Strawman.
(3) They wanted that, and that is exactly what they got.

Also It's text on multiple occasions that the rainbow power cannot be controlled...

Instead of writing more words after that, you should instead cite these "multiple occasions" and how it is "text".

It can determine if it's users are worthy.
It cannot be controlled by any force or will.
It created the chest had foreknowledge of what the keys were, what they would be used for, and created Twilight's castle.

(1) Back to my Excalibur analogy.
(2) Citations needed.
(3) The tree did all that.

4589117
Like a few others, I actually don't find the idea of a human Sunset very interesting. I think it's mostly because we've sort of already had a "human Sunset": It would be the Sunset before the end of EQG1, except without the cool "Celestia's rogue student" backstory.

In contrast, a human Twilight has potential because we've never had a canon "friendless" version of Twilight.

4589433

So it's less about how interesting she is, and much more about the gaping pothole of where the piss is she and why?

Yeah that's where headcanon and creative writing can soar.

I find offing her a bit out of league for anypony, but some kind of blackmail scheme, scare tactics or ruse right up our Sunset's alley might be in play.

I think pony Sunset dominating human Sunset is unlikely. Human Sunset would be the native of this world, with proper family connections and social levers, and neither of them has magic. If anything the pony Sunset should be afraid of the human Sunset. The pony's only chance is assassinating the human before the human even knows about her, and I think that is out of the question unless you're writing a crackfic.

Locking. This belongs here:
http://www.fimfiction.net/group/199035/sunset-shimmer/thread/201054/sunset-shimmer---character

unlocked

I think that there is a much simpler answer...
Sunset's double doesn't even exist. She was never even born.

4714787 ...well that's just boring. And unlikely, given there are counterparts for all of the other major characters in the show and quite a few minor characters.

4715334
Yes, but if Human Twilight is proof that every doppleganger is different in some way or another, then we can't rule out the possibility.
Interesting theory that touches upon this topic:

rarity agrees about the dress bit

please don't dismiss this possibility, I actually based mine off this one

4715384 What, another "Fallout" story? Shameless plug on "Fallout 4" lol (been writing news about that and "Fallout Shelter"). But seriously...

I don't think Sunset will have a double, or a human counterpart. I think she will be that unique...err, pony, in that she doesn't have a human counterpart. I see her to be the bridge between the human world and Equestria. Think Anakin Skywalker, in that she's the Chosen One in reverse--whereas Anakin fell to the Dark Side, Sunset is one emerging from that darkness and discovering the light within her. Of course, as theories go, this is not set in stone until it's set in stone. Wait, did that even make sense?