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Irrespective


"Anything described can be described s'more." -the Lolly Family

More Blog Posts264

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    Okay. Somebody left the front gate open, and Baked Bean has gotten out and wandered off again.

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  • 2 weeks
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  • 3 weeks
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  • 4 weeks
    Follow up to Bleh

    Modmyths asks:

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    (It being my broken water line, just to be clear.)

    The answer is no, I hadn't thought of that.

    But!

    I went out and got more bids, and found a general contractor who could do the job for 3k.

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  • 5 weeks
    A Correction

    It has come to the attention of management that a typographical error has occurred in chapter 13 of New Noses Know.

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Jun
5th
2018

A Formal Review · 8:39pm Jun 5th, 2018

Okay.

This is going to be a long one, folks.

Why?

A short while ago, I submitted No Nose Knows to The Review Corner, a group with some seriously nice folks. From there, Dr Blankflank was kind enough to take a look at my writings and to give it his professional opinion.

The review he sent back to me is nearly 3,500 words long.

So, this is my review of his review, or more accurately, this is me going over his review and pointing out how everything he said is right, along with added some context and history as to why what was done was done.

I won’t reprint his whole review here, but I strongly and highly encourage you to check it out here. It’s thoughtful, it’s clear, and it’s everything one could as for in a review. I wanted to know what I did right and wrong, and I got that and more.

So, let’s start with Dr Blankflank. His official bio, as found on The Review Corner’s front page, is as follows:

Dr. Blankflank is old enough to know better. Still, ponies are adorable and the urge to tell stories is inescapable.

He bears a Bachelor of Arts in English, with a focus on Creative Writing. He also loves to read good stories about ponies. And (as every writer needs a reader) so too do we need one another to grow and learn as writers. He is opinionated but kind.

He doesn’t normally speak in third person, but he is willing to if the situation demands it. You are welcome to message him, and he will reply promptly if he can just get this kitty off his touchpad.

Now, for the actual review. I’ll just summarize and hit the key points that are mentioned, with a few thoughts and some background to help explain why I did what I did, and to hopefully help others avoid my mistakes.

And, fair warning, there be spoilers ahead. Ye Be Warned.

Point 1: Perspective.
I get called out for swapping perspectives between Bean and Celestia, in what is commonly called ‘head-hopping.’ The criticism of this is fair: the jump can be jarring and can take readers out of the experience. I did so partly out of weak writing ability and partly out of ignorance: I wanted to show you how Celestia felt, so I’m going to tell you how she feels. Makes sense, right?

There’s a better way to do it, and it’s one that Georg has been trying to grill into me ever since he graciously stepped up to offer his editing services. At first, he would gently point out my POV hop with a gentle *ahem*, but I’m pretty sure he’s ready to start hitting me over the head with a shovel the next time I do it. :)
The emotion and the feeling can be conveyed without the hop, if I will take the time to create it.

2. What I’ll call ‘BAD JOKE!’
Dr Blankflank points out two instances: ‘The Great Hasbro’ and Pinkie Pie’s gag with the Gary Stu during his visit to Ponyville. The Great Hasbro came about as my attempt to be a bit different from the usual invocations of deity: from what I’d seen, most use either Celestia herself or some version of Faust in that role. Since the story featured Celestia, I didn’t think Luna would use her sister for that, and Faust was just overused. And, as I thought when I wrote it, there is one entity that overrode Faust, one power that ruled them all: Hasbro. Hasbro giveth, Hasbro taketh away. They are the ones that ultimately define My Little Pony.

Now, does this make my choice right? I’ll let the review say it:

Ok, 50 cents for clever, but subtract twenty bucks for reminding me that i am a grown man reading a romance fic about cartoon ponies.

The gag works, but at what expense? And, in fairness, the scene doesn’t really need it. The point gets across just fine if I were to omit the line entirely.

And then Pinkie Pie. *sigh.* There are three chapters that I absolutely hate in No Nose as I look back now: The two chapters that cover Bean’s visit to Ponyville, and The Citron Presse chapter. (More on that later.) That whole bit from Pinkie wasn’t needed. I fell into the trap of “Oh, crap! This character isn’t speaking! Quick, say something!”

3. Bean is an author insert.
Dr Blankflank mentions this while talking about Pinkie’s bad joke, and I suppose that I’ll never be able to escape it. When I started writing Nose, I made a deliberate attempt to keep myself out of the story. I weaved an intricate backstory for Bean to show he was a pony, he is a pony, and never at any point was anything but a pony. I didn’t want this to be a self-insert, it was never intended to be a self-insert. My own personality is very much similar to Fluttershy, in real life. I write Bean doing and saying things that I’d never say or do in a hundred years.

But, I suppose that no matter how much I say otherwise, the story will always have that feel. Perhaps it’s in the way I wrote it? Perhaps it’s because I use Bean as my avatar? Who knows. I can deny and deny, but if the shoe fits, then I guess I have to wear it. (But I’m still not adding the self-insert tag. :rainbowdetermined2: )

4. Accents / Ye Olde English
Guilty again. Short and sweet on this point: I apostrophe’d it to death. The emphasis and accents could be better served in a different manner, or introduced earlier in the story to help acclimate. Same with Luna’s Ye Olde speak: I stink at that, and I need to go educate myself on the proper use of thee, thine, thou, and all that.

5. Character.

I’ll let there review make the point, Dr Blankflank expresses it quite well. If you need me, I’ll be over here, stroking my ego. :twilightsmile:

Okay, in seriousness. The biggest complaint is lack of flaw in the characters.

Surely after 1,000 years of living in solitude, Celestia may have developed some habits that are just fine when one lives alone but might prove otherwise in company? Surely Baked Bean have one selfish or ornery bone in his entire body? “Do these ponies not have flaws?” I ask the uncaring universe.

Celestia’s aversion to contractions does not qualify.

Again, fair. While I wrote, I wanted to have just a cute and fluffy story about a commoner and a Princess. Big drama was left out, and while it makes for a nice read, it makes it a bit unfulfilling too. I think my reasoning at the time was that Bean’s personality is one that is not inclined to conflict, and that after 1,000 years, Celestia knows how to act in any given situation.

Yeah, that’s great, except she’s been living alone. She can’t be matched in diplomacy, but one-on-one relations are going to be a new thing for her. Nopony is perfect, even Celestia.

This leads into the Citron Presse. Remember how I said I hate this chapter? That’s exactly why. Again, I hit the trap of “Oh, real couples fight. Celestia and Bean need to fight.” I caught flak when I released the chapter for glossing over the fight, and I still deserve it now. If they’re going to fight, let them fight. The ol’ show, don’t tell. (I have problems with doing that.)

6. Dramatic Arc

Again, guilty.

This story suffers from a common problem with many similar stories; as the author was writing in serial, the dramatic arc is only partly known at the onset.

So guilty I should be banished to the moon. Time for a bit of time travel to explain this one.

If I remember the numbers right, The Black Sheep had 112 views, and Will You Dream For Me, Dear Sister? had 180 when I hit the submit button on Nose. I thought I’d be doing good to get 500 total views on my story, and I really only had up to the forced wedding planned.
I even put out a thank-you post when it happened. I never, never expected to gain the following that I did, and there’s no way anyone could have convinced me then that I would have 12,659 views and 1,210 upvotes (as of this writing) with this thing.

If I had known, I totally would have done things different, and maybe a lot of the issues that are mentioned herein would have been avoided. I do have to give a shout-out to my editors and proofreaders with this: Moon Fire, Georg, and Sipioc have provided more insights, suggestions, and corrections to my story than I have any right to ask for. Once they came on board, I got the education I needed on what I was doing wrong, and they’ve helped me clean up my act quite a bit.

Conclusion:

Dr Blankflank, thank you. Some of your points are familiar, some are new, but all are timely and your review is greatly appreciated and appropriate. I will heed your words and make the corrections that you suggest.

A lot of my followers know that I started to edit and correct No Nose a while back, and I managed to make it through the first six chapters before stalling out on the 7th due to my uncle’s funeral. I’m going to try to get back into that, and hopefully I can weed out some of these errors. Some may be forced to remain without an overhaul of the story, but I’ll do my best to fix up and correct, so that No Nose Knows can be worthy of the reader who invests the time into it.

Report Irrespective · 614 views · Story: No Nose Knows ·
Comments ( 7 )

Yeah, now you know a little what it felt like about on the second chapter of Monster in the Twilight when I got my first comma in Number of Views. Something on the order of "Holy cats! I better complete this story or they'll track me down and kill me!"

Dramatic arc is hard. Sometimes we find ourselves enjoying the walk in the park so much we forgot that we are supposed to go *through* the park and wind up somewhere else. Particularly when we're 'Discovery Writers' (we have DWA meetings, honest. And we're getting better.)

Hi. My name is Georg. And I can't outline to save my life.

4877127
*all together now* Hi Georg! :)

That's one thing I'm gonna work on going forward: either knowing the end from the beginning or writing the whole thing out and then correcting. Having editors definitely helps. :)

In a way, it may have been for the best that I didn't have the whole story outlined. The story may not have a dramatic arc, but it did give me the chance to learn how to let the character's personalities out. I could see myself falling into the pitfall of plot at all costs very easily.

But in my never ending quest to improve my writing, I gotta learn how to do both. I have been attempting to do so with This Nose, but we'll have to see how well I do. :rainbowdetermined2:

Whenever I see an Arts degree, I get suspicious. :unsuresweetie: Surely if someone was smart, they'd get a Science degree and a real job.

I suppose they have their uses in teaching things like language, but one must remember that ultimately, it's all down to how society molds itself and the general adaptation and adoption of various ideas and conceits. The sheer fact that there's a deep and vitriolic disagreement between those who accept "ain't" and those who wish it a painful, burning death tends to make me think it's all petty bullshit.

That being said, seems he actually gave good advice and didn't frame it in a way that implied you were a lesser being because you needed it.

4877682
The proof is in the pudding, as they say. :)
That is one big thing I appreciated about the review: it wasn't condescending. "Here's what worked, here's what didn't so much, here's what I think could help and why. You did good, but here's how to be awesome." :twilightsmile:

4877682

Interesting. I suppose my BS in Computer Science, and my job as a web developer is important to you then? It didn't seem relevant at the time. It certainly doesn't make me a better writer.

4878172
Touchy, ain't you? I expected no less; I've yet to meet an Arts degree holder who isn't insecure about it.

Nevermind the fact I did say good things about you specifically, that you gave good advice and didn't condescend. No, you focused on that one thing. At least, you weren't condescending until your little comment here, where you most definitely have that kind of tone.

As a matter of fact, your BS and job actually do matter; you're not a lazy person who gets a pile of bullcrap degree in arts and then acts like the world owes him a living. The fact you got a real degree in a valuable field and do a valuable job means that your words come not just from the parroting of your professors, but potentially from real world application and experience as well. It certainly does mean your advice can carry more weight, if given time to assess it.

But hey, if you want that BA degree to be your rage button, I won't mention it again.

4878196

Okay, we have a lot to unpack here.

I don't think we need to be adversarial here; I was not intending to cause offense. I did find your first post to be offensive, and I was trying to signal to you that you may have buried the lede in your post.

Right? If I did a good job and wasn't condescending, maybe you open with that? Then we can, once we have established a foundation of respect, you can say the part where you mistrust all Arts degrees. Then I can go on and tell you that, in my 25 years as a wage-earner, my English degree is the one that has proven its worth over the years. Well over everything I did to get a BS.

That, as I work in Dev, I find that most every colleague of mine is terrible at basic communications, and the vast majority of bugs released in code are due to a misunderstanding of the requirements. That the three best developers I know all hold degrees in Philosophy.

But we need that moment of recognition first - that spark that says I am a human being, and you are a human being and we both like to watch cartoons about colorful singing ponies. That all of this effort we make on FIMFiction is in support of a children's show. Right? Then we get to laugh at the absurdities of life instead of drawing lines in the sand.

So, I've read your blog. I see that you have an enviable number of readers. You get it. Despite your skepticism regarding the value of a BA, you get why we write in the first place. If I had to guess (and it's all a guess, because I do not really know you; the internet is a terrible limitation on social cues), I would say that even though you love to write, you struggle with what is worth writing.

Me too. I am no master at this. I do have experience, but I am feeling my way through just like the rest of you. And storytelling is no science. There are traditions and there are conventions, but there is no established path to success in writing. So we must rely on one another to tell us what works and what does not.

I see you have asked that of your readers as well. It's so frustrating to pour your heart into a work and hear nothing in return. Why is this story good, and this (ostensibly better) story languishing in anonymity? We can only ask, and think about what we get in response.

So, throw me a story, pone. Give me the story that you can't figure out. Give me your trusty favorite. Whatever you want. I will give you my opinion, and I won't condescend.

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