Points of Canon: S4x25-26 - Twilight’s Kingdom

And now, for the grand finale, and the most convoluted episode of the season. And Shadow Play made it magnitudes more convoluted than it was before.

Now, let’s start with something I mentioned while chewing the previous episode. As far as I can tell, these events have to occur in this very specific order:

1. The Mane 6, sans Rainbow, Fluttershy and Spike, arrive to the Crystal Empire, untelevised.
2. Rainbow, Fluttershy and Spike arrive to the Crystal Empire with the Ponyville team, as per Equestria Games, something like a week ahead of the Games. The rest of the Mane 6 could have arrived on the same train with them, riding a different car, but Twilight definitely came in earlier. Immediately after Spike agrees to light the flame at the Games, the episode cuts, right before the scene at the opening ceremonies where he actually tries to light the flame.
3. Twilight’s Kingdom starts. Spike returns with the Mane 5 to pick up Rainbow and the rest of the team. It’s possible that more days have passed and they were taking a walk in the fields outside the city, or did some other kind of hanging out that resulted in them returning to the castle as a group. The Maretonian delegation arrives, and is greeted with fanfare. Presumably, the Saddle Arabian delegation arrives in the same time period, and is also greeted with fanfare, but we never see that. The time before the Games is spent in various diplomatic discussions, which Twilight is not privy to. Once the princesses sing their song, the episode cuts, right before the scene where Tirek claims his first victim.
4. Equestria Games continues where it left off, up until it ends.
5. Twilight’s Kingdom continues where it left off. The Mane 5 and Spike leave the Crystal Empire off screen, untelevised, but Twilight is abruptly detained – precisely because Celestia has something to say to her, she just had that vision.

In total, the Mane 6 and the Sisters have spent something like three weeks straight in the Crystal Empire, uninterrupted, possibly a little longer.

What does this cross-cut accomplish:

• The Maretonian delegation does not have to come to the Crystal Empire twice in quick succession. Neither do the Mane 6. Neither do Celestia and Luna!
• The question why all four princesses are in the Crystal Empire at the same time, and why the Maretonians came there, instead of Canterlot, acquires a sensible answer: They were invited to the Equestria Games, came a little early, and used the opportunity for some manner of diplomatic negotiations.
• It also explains why Tirek is acting now, when he has been out and about for months: All the heavy-hitters and even the Elements at once are far away, for several weeks, and he stands the least chance of getting interrupted in early stages by someone who could pose a danger to him.
• It explains why Spike refers to saving the Crystal Empire and the statue he got for it, but not to doing so at the Games closing ceremony: He hasn’t done that yet.

What it costs us:

A counterintuitive understanding of several lines in the beginning of Twilight’s Kingdom.

There is only one line that casts any significant doubt on this cross-cut: Rainbow says “You only mentioned it about fifteen times on the train here.” Since, in the beginning of Equestria Games, she came with Spike on the same train, and he did not know he’s a big hero in the Empire yet, he couldn’t well mention it fifteen times. However, if we assume that she misspoke and meant to say “way,” and they’ve been, for example, out on a walk, the excited Spike, who just found out how big of a hero he is definitely wouldn’t shut up about the experience.

Some other lines don’t sit particularly well, like Cadance’s line “I’m sorry, Twilight, but their visit is already over.” – the official part is, and tomorrow morning they get to watch the Games opening ceremonies! – but they only stretch my disbelief a tiny bit, and I think the result is a net gain rather than loss of sense.

This episode urgently needs more sense.

Anyway, on with the actual episode…

• “I’m glad you all wanted to come, but I don’t think it’s gonna be that exciting.” According to the above, Twilight is referring to the greeting ceremony, rather than the Crystal Empire itself. This is something they didn’t have to attend, but came to see Twilight do, since they were in town already.

• “The Duke and Duchess of Maretonia!”

  • These are the only two characters with a non-prince/princess noble title in primary canon at all, save for the Dragon Lord as described in Gauntlet of Fire, who definitely has no relation to the Equestrian title hierarchy, and Tirek, who is “from a distant land.” See limited nobility theory in RTAC #2. If Maretonia is a subdivision of Equestria, they certainly don’t appear to have sent a team to the Games, and yet the delegation came. See also RTAC #12, for that matter – Maretonians constitute an important and easily twistable argument regarding Equestrian politics, so they get brought up a lot.
  • Notice Flash Sentry, still hanging out in the Crystal Empire and doing the announcing.
  • Notice that the Duke has neither an obvious horn nor wings, but his Ducchess does have a horn. Assuming they are ponies – I am not entirely certain on that – that would be an unambiguous mixed-tribe marriage, which are very rare. It’s strange that it is between foreigners.
  • After all these years we still have no clue whatsoever where Maretonia is.
• “Your highness. Thank you for understanding our desire to keep the number of those privy to these confidential discussions to a minimum.” I do wonder what were they talking about. I actually suspect there might be a story in it, considering just what happens next.
• Notice that while Twilight bows to the Duke, the Duke and the Duchess don’t bow anywhere as deeply. I wonder if she actually had to.
• “But I… well, it’s just that Princess Luna raises the moon, Princess Celestia raises the sun, you protect the Crystal Empire, and all I seem to do is… smile and wave.” Explicit statements that this is what princesses actually do are rarer than you might think.
• This is actually my favorite pony song.
• Notice that the windows of the Crystal Empire homes are lit at night, rather brightly at that – brighter than, say, in Canterlot in the evening seen during A Canterlot Wedding. It doesn’t exactly force anything, but suggests energy is relatively cheap around here and crystal ponies go to bed rather late.
• In several shots, the Crystal Heart aurora is visible, so the Heart must have been fired today.
• “Patience is never easy / I understand wanting more / I know how hard it is to wait / To spread out your wings and soar” I wonder what is it exactly that Luna was waiting for and when. Notice that she laments the lack of opportunity to do things, rather than recognition for the things she actually did.
• Episode cut! Continue watching Equestria Games starting with the opening ceremony of the Games, then come back.
• The scene revealing Tirek is presented out of context. We do not know if this is Celestia’s dream vision, something that actually happens as seen directly, something that has happened already, or something that will happen soon. Celestia never clarifies. What we do know is that when Discord encounters Tirek, that happens in the same place and at the exact same conditions, but whether there is a gap between these scenes or not, we don’t know.
• We get no explicit statements just where is the alley that Tirek turns up in located. Wiki says it’s Canterlot, but I don’t see any clear indications that this is where it is. What I should notice, though, is that this is explicitly the same alley that Trixie purchased the Alicorn Amulet in during Magic Duel, and even the trash is in the same places. The architectural style matches Canterlot, but that is no guarantee.
• There is fog on the street, and Tirek’s breath coming out as steam. Why is it so cold here at this time of year? Cold nights in autumn on the mountain?…
• Tirek’s presence becomes known because an open tin rolls along the pavement. Ponies have canned food and tinplate steel, both rather old technologies in our world.
• “Very sorry. You came out of nowhere.” Incidentally, Rare Find is also present at the moment when Cerberus enters Ponyville during It’s About Time. Either he’s the unluckiest stallion around or he had a reason to be there…
• Tirek’s cloak matches the tarp Pinkie used in Castle Mane-ia, which was fodder for many a conspiracy theory.
• One unicorn is sufficient for Tirek to increase in size by at least 20% at this stage.
• Cutie marks count as magic and get drained together with everything else.
• Notice that Rare Find is incapacitated, but is neither dead nor unconscious – his eyes are moving. He reappears in later episodes, so he definitely survived.
• And that’s where Celestia wakes up. Notice that she is still in the Crystal Empire, and that the room she is sleeping in is in the castle proper.
• Celestia sleeps in her full regalia, the crown, the peytral, and even the shoes. Luna is also fully dressed as she turns up.
• “You know as well as I that this was not a dream, but a vision.” The meaning of this phrase is never adequately explained. Just like we don’t know exactly why does Luna know its content – she immediately understands who the “he” is once Celestia mentions Tirek – or how is it that she busts open Celestia’s door at the exact moment Celestia wakes up.

• Celestia’s flashback is presented as a book with pictures.

  • As she is done talking, the pictures we just saw an animatic of remain visible in the book, so I think we have to accept them as evidence as well, despite the usual shakiness of flashbacks. That said, this does not exclude the entire story from being a falsehood, but if that is the case, Luna is in on it.
  • This is still the Crystal Empire. Unless Celestia hauls around this particular book on the off chance she might have to brief Twilight about Tirek, this book had to have come from the Crystal Empire library, and would necessarily be over a thousand years old.
  • Scorpan is depicted wearing his amulet throughout – including the time when he talks to the princesses, which would be the moment when he betrayed Tirek. According to Tirek later in the episode, Scorpan gave him the amulet, but we neither know whether Tirek says the truth nor what actually happened to Scorpan in the end. This is actually kind of important.

  • 1. 🎵 Then Starswirl the Grey and Star Swirl the white, and Monty Python and The Holy Grail’s Black Knight… 🎵

    “But Scorpan soon came to appreciate the ways of Equestria, even befriending a young unicorn wizard.” The illustration for this phrase depicts the white Star Swirl¹ – compare to Three’s A Crowd.

  • “Scorpan urged his brother to abandon their plans. When Tirek refused, Scorpan alerted us to Tirek’s intentions.” This phrase is delivered by Luna, whose memories of the events have to be magnitudes fresher, if any memories exist at all. And notice that he “alerted us” – emphasis mine. He didn’t alert Star Swirl, he didn’t alert the Pillars, he alerted the two princesses, because he liked Star Swirl. The illustration depicts Scorpan talking to both Celestia and Luna. Take this into account when trying to sort out the mess created by Shadow Play.
  • “Scorpan returned to his own land, and Tirek was sent to Tartarus for his crimes. But it appears he has found a way to escape.” Considering the amulet, which has to make it to Tirek somehow, I am suspecting that Scorpan did not actually return anywhere, but that Tirek killed him once he knew that Scorpan betrayed his intention to the local authorities. And that was the actual crime that he was sent to Tartarus for: aggravated fratricide.
• “We believe it happened when Cerberus left his post at the gates.” “But that was a long time ago.” The only time it happened that Twilight would inevitably know about would be during It’s About Time, so as far as we know, this is when he escaped – by my chronology, between 5 and 9 months ago.
• “His time in Tartarus left him very weak. He has just now gained enough strength to use his dark powers.” Celestia is talking like she is absolutely sure this is what happened, but does she actually know for certain that was the reason Tirek is only attacking now?
• “And I know just the princess who could stop him.” It’s clear from this phrase Cadance was not briefed on this subject before. Notice, though, that Celestia’s decision to send Discord against Tirek is a surprise even for Luna. So what did Luna expect Celestia to do?…
• “I don’t think it’s that big of a surprise. He can be very helpful.” Notably, we haven’t seen Discord be helpful on screen by then, but, say, in Friends Forever #2, which was already out by then, he is quite helpful.
• “He can sense when there’s a magical imbalance. The next time Tirek steals magic, Discord will be able to track him down!” Unfortunately, the term “magical imbalance” is so wonderfully nebulous that it doesn’t tell us anything about the mechanics of magic at all. We know that Discord can detect drain events while a substantial distance away, but not the limits of this ability. Discord does appear to sense when the alicorn magic is transferred later in the episode, but we don’t know for sure if this is the same ability in action or not.
• “It has been a while since we visited the castle.” The cleanup project started in Power Ponies was abandoned at some point, apparently, but why is a mystery, just like it is a mystery why was it started.
• “Oh, you’re talking about me, I presume?” Notice that Discord is referencing Mary Poppins here, which is a very specific thing to reference. And then he dresses up as General Patton. Or at least a four-star general, but apparently, just about everyone except Patton had the four stars in a single row, while Patton’s helmet always had one-over-three instead. Whichever human world Discord has access to had a WWII as well.
• The rectangular flag of Equestria he presents contains only 31 star. I think this is simply a cutout of the regular flag, though.
• “Oh, I never dream of such things. Ask Princess Luna.” Secondary canon later confirms that Discord’s dreams are subject to Luna’s magic in Friends Forever #20 and quite a few other cases.

• “I-I-It got me thinking, what if what’s locked inside is something that could help her prove her royal worth?” “I’ve bookmarked a few of the more interesting passages. You really should take a look!”

  • Not only Discord has a good idea what’s in the box, he also knows the opening condition. That requires in-depth knowledge of the workings of the Tree of Harmony, doesn’t it?
  • Notice that he refers to Twilight proving her royal worth, not dealing with the crisis of the day.
• “Well, I’ll bring the cucumber sandwiches…!” In Discordant Harmony, Fluttershy supplies carrot ginger sandwiches, but Discord does cucumber sandwiches again. It’s interesting that he was trusted with sandwiches that early on.
• The only source that mentions the Tree at all that we ever heard about is The Journal of the Two Sisters, which Shadow Play has such problems with, so it’s no wonder the Mane 6 go looking for further information in the castle – but it is important, say, for the discussion of the potential Other Sith, that they definitely did not find anything.

• Discord’s meeting with Tirek needs to be analyzed very carefully.

  • “Tirek, I presume?” Now, do we take this phrase to mean that Discord does not recognize Tirek, or not? Because Tirek definitely recognizes Discord immediately, and addresses him as if he knows him throughout this conversation. Most of it could be by reputation, of course, but still… Discord’s own comments are more ambiguous – almost all the statements he makes are about himself.
  • Tirek believed Discord to still be imprisoned, though he never specifies how, and also believes he escaped – he definitely did not know Discord was released.
  • “Fluttershy? You’re not saying you’re friends with ponies?” I’m pretty sure Tirek has no prior knowledge of Fluttershy, if only because who else would Discord be friends with in Equestria other than ponies?
  • “I am surprised that someone with your intellect does not see this ‘friendship’ is but a new form of imprisonment. Clearly you’ve had to abandon your true nature to stay in their good graces.” Actually, here’s something to consider. Have we ever observed Discord being smart? If we trust Tirek, Discord has a reputation for being so. While there’s no question he’s highly erudite, he’s not showing that much intellect most of the time – and particularly not here. Tirek is probably right about the true nature, though, we’ve seen what happens if Discord abandons it in Discordant Harmony.
  • “You are Discord, you are legend, you cannot fall into the same trap that claimed my brother!” More claims of reputation. Notice that this is not a claim that Tirek only knows of Discord through legend – that remains ambiguous.
  • “Once I’ve stripped these ponies of their magic, nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see their world turned upside down.” Tirek has a particular reason to hate ponies, though, seeing as how it was they who imprisoned him, we know why.
• “I’ve been reading our journal, and there’s something interesting about the sections that Discord bookmarked.” I already wrote about this in Doylist Intrusion #1, but notice one thing: Twilight was able to discover something that united all the Key Incidents.
• “Each of you received something from the pony whose life you helped change.” Stop. The records in the printed Friendship Journal never mention the souvenirs received. In some cases – like Applejack’s incident – Twilight was never present to observe the gift-giving. This implies Twilight and Discord having very detailed knowledge of these events. That’s a bloody lot of eavesdropping, and a huge leap on Twilight’s part.
• “Think, Twilight. When have you completed a difficult magical task, and in doing so encouraged another pony to do the same?” That isn’t actually the trigger for the key incident, though, is it? It’s like Rarity forgot that friendship is magic for a moment.
• Contrary to the usual, Twilight flies to Canterlot. The Sisters, Cadance and Shining Armor are all in Canterlot by that moment.

• “I’m afraid I put too much trust in Discord and the effect that friendship would have upon him.” Notice that the flashbacks are also presented out of context, like Tirek’s first appearance.

  • In the theater, the Canterlot Friends are all among the victims, but Bon-Bon is also there for some reason.
  • This time, it takes Tirek ~30 unicorns to grow 30%.
  • “Tirek has stolen enough magic that he now has the strength to steal flight as well.” Not pegasus magic, for some reason, but just “flight.” Wonderbolts, Wonderbolt trainees and Derpy are all among the victims. Notice that falls from as much as ~20 meters are still not fatal.
  • “There is word he has gone after Earth ponies as well. Without their strength, they will not be able to tend the land.” Still no statement about earth pony magic, but it obviously counts as magic anyway, if there’s something to drain. The scene is set in Appleloosa. Braeburn is among the victims, but the rest are rather generic. Notice that this case is distinct in that Discord actively rounds up ponies for Tirek to drain. In all the other cases, he is at most a distraction.
  • “Ponies will no longer be in control of their world.” Not our world. Theirs. Any particular reason Luna says that?
• “But there is one solution. It is only by making this sacrifice that Equestria and the lands beyond it might be saved.” Celestia is sure that this is the only way, but she never explains the expected mechanism by which it would be helpful at all, nothing beyond “keep it safe”. Keeping magic safe would not resolve this crisis.
• “We do not believe that Tirek is aware that a fourth Alicorn princess exists in Equestria. If we transfer our magic to you, Tirek will not know where it has gone.” Now, a million bit question: On what grounds did Celestia reach this conclusion? If Tirek is not aware that Twilight exists, why would he be aware that the third princess exists?
• “I fear that your friends being aware of your new power could put them at great risk.” Which is pretty definitely wrong: Friends knowing that Twilight hosts the entirety of available alicorn magic would be entirely irrelevant to whether they are in danger or not. Enemies knowing about it would be bad. It’s like there are huge chunks of the story missing, but there are no obvious breaks where they could be.
• Discord shakes as he, apparently, receives the “magical imbalance” vibes, setting the time for this event at exactly when the magic was transferred plus whatever lag is involved. I’m not entirely sure where they are at the moment, either – while it vaguely looks like Canterlot, I don’t think we see this background anywhere else.
• In a fit of inconsistency, Luna’s cutie mark is only missing partially – the black spot behind the moon remains. In A Royal Problem, the black spot is transferred to Celestia together with the moon, instead.
• By the time Twilight returns to Ponyville, it isn’t just night, but time to raise the Sun. When she arrived to Canterlot, it was still day. Where did she spend the intervening eight hours and what has she been doing? And did someone lower the Sun immediately before she entered the throne room, or not?
• The angular speed of the celestial objects moving across the sky utterly prevents their motions from being expressed as planetary rotation, especially if you consider that the stars definitely don’t move as this happens. See RTAC #7 – this scene is one of the most important arguments for the deductions therein. Notice also that while the motions are wobbly, they are apparently planar, Twilight does not bring the celestial objects closer or drive them further away.
• “Back off, traitor.” Shining Armor has been briefed on what happened, but notice that he only runs into Tirek and Discord now. At this moment, Tirek is essentially immune to normal magic, casually consuming whatever spell Shining Armor threw at him. Notice that it’s a bolt, not one of his more usual shields.
• Twilight’s uncontrollable flying and the colorful contrail establishes that pegasus magic is also part of the whole alicorn magic equation, not that we needed much further confirmation at this point.
• “Jumpin’ junebugs, Twilight!” Not sure if this is evidence for the existence of the month June or not.
• Tirek’s magic repertoire now includes illustrative illusions, an ability to open a portal directly to Tartarus, and heat projection, in addition to telekinesis.
• “Oh, no, I haven’t touched that one yet.” Wait, full stop. Closer investigation of Twilight’s stained-glass window reveals two books depicted on it. One is “Star Swirl’s” spiral bound notebook. The other one is the Friendship Journal. Now, if the window was made to commemorate Twilight’s coronation, the said book definitely did not exist yet. In fact, if it were made at any later time up until the day before, its significance would not be known to anyone who would be making the window or ordering it made. The only character who knew anything was Discord, when he drew Twilight’s attention to the Friendship Journal. What’s going on here?
• “I just needed some assurance that you truly considered this a team effort. And now I have it.” Notice that this does seem similar to Discord’s behavior in Three’s A Crowd, where he presents Twilight with a test.
• “I think we’ve warned everypony to stay inside.” And boarded up all the windows in town. I generally wouldn’t want to be boarded up in a house after being warned to stay inside…
• “You’re back! Did you bring the cucumber sandwiches?” “I did. I imagine they’ll be your last decent meal for quite some time.” Carefully observe this scene. Discord is definitely capable of acting, though we can’t be sure if he is at any given moment: He appears genuinely happy to see Fluttershy, and then immediately does a 180° and sticks the Mane 5 into a cage, and doesn’t even let them have his sandwiches, he drops the tray on the ground. As such, his reactions to Tirek are just as suspect as his genuine-looking happiness here, and we don’t know for sure which is fake.
• Draining just the Mane 5 results in Tirek doubling in size. They’re all worth rather a lot of XP, aren’t they? About as much as draining Discord gets him, I would say. Notice that for a “god of chaos,” the observed growth of Tirek is stupidly low, too.
• “My brother who betrayed me. It is as worthless as he is.” That’s our only indication that Scorpan might still be alive, actually, although I wonder how would he last so long.
• “Surely you saw this comin’.” “I didn’t. I truly didn’t.” And since above, we saw Discord actually fake an emotion – we just don’t know which one – we don’t know if he’s telling the truth or not, now.
• Twilight’s “perfectly controlled teleportation” goes haywire and takes her to Canterlot, Winsome Falls, Appleloosa, and eventually to somewhere in Tirek’s vicinity. We don’t know where it is exactly, but it is somewhere in the fields next to Ponyville, because she can watch him with a telescope from the library. Notice that the buffalo are currently stampeding for no obvious reason.
• I already mentioned that eyeballing the size of the craters created during this battle gives us an estimate on the typical alicorn princess top power output on the scale of 5 kilotons TNT. See RTAC #7 for details. Notice that while this would not necessarily level Ponyville – especially if there was a mountain or two in the way, the terrain certainly permits this – every single window would burst anyway in any reasonable case. Most of the damage seems to be confined to Everfree, though: As the Mane 6 emerge post-henshin out of the ravine next to the castle, they’re close enough to intercept Tirek.
• “How about a trade, Princess Twilight? Their release for all the Alicorn magic in Equestria.” This, in the bluntest possible way, is Twilight’s Chest of Harmony Key choice: Friendship versus magic, in which Twilight picks friendship, and inspires Discord to also do the same. The souvenir is Tirek’s amulet, originally obtained from Scorpan.
• The full set of alicorn magic multiplies Tirek’s size by at least six. This growth is hardly linear, is it?

• “You think that might be the last one we need?”

  • So why is it Applejack noticing this?
  • Wait. “We have to get to the chest.” What’s the rush? At what point exactly did “proving your royal worth” turn into expecting an anti-Tirek trump card?
  • Also notice that receiving the key at least partially restores everyone, including Discord – they are again capable of moving.
• Henshin!
• “How is this possible?! You have no magic!” As far as Tirek can tell, what he is currently seeing does not fit the definition of magic. This is kind of important.

• The effects of Rainbow Power are mysterious as hell, but notice the order of events:

  • Tirek is reduced to the sorry state he started from, and is immediately transported to Tartarus. Notice Cerberus at the steps towards the particular cell Tirek ends up in, rather than at the gates or anywhere else. The three princesses are still in a neighboring cell.
  • Then the Mane 6 scatter across Equestria, restoring lost magic to the drained ponies. The overworld view of Equestria shown is the usual map – but it has no Crystal Empire at all, and no Rainbow Falls or Pie family farm area, for that matter – it’s the pre-Season-4 map. The Undiscovered West isn’t there either. Animation error?
  • Only then they restore the princesses and release them from Tartarus.
  • Then they return to the Tree of Harmony, and the Chest fires vertically upwards. Since it’s directly underneath the Castle of the Two Sisters, you would expect it to pierce the ruins and wipe them off the map, but there’s no sign of the castle when it emerges.
  • The Friendship Castle monstrosity grows out of the ground.
  • The Mane 6 teleport straight to the doors.
  • De-henshin.
• “Sweet Celestia! Are you all seeing what I’m seeing?” Rarity, once again, takes Celestia’s name in vain.
• “But… whose is it?” Twilight apparently expected someone to appear, rather than something.
• “As princess, I believe I have the power to spread the magic of friendship across Equestria.” I.e. missionary work.
• “Let the rainbow remind you” The montage of the rainbow takes us to see the key-givers. Notably, it reaches into the breezie realm.
• Discord’s winking at Celestia is so bloody ambiguous.

Some analysis

What the sonic rainboom speed flying fuck has actually happened? To be honest, right now I have no idea. I have a feeling it is all connected, that is, that the solution fitting all those puzzle pieces in an elegant story exists, somewhere. There are certainly enough very conspicuous gaps. I just don’t have it yet. Here are the questions that I have, the important ones, in no particular order:

1. What exactly happened to Scorpan? Tirek speaks of him as if he “is.” Scorpan is never depicted without his amulet, and yet Tirek somehow received it. Celestia states that he “returned,” but I don’t particularly trust Celestia when she’s delivering exposition. If Scorpan did, in fact, return, what were Tirek’s actual crimes? They were never described.
2. Unless Celestia kept the book around on the off chance that she needs a visual aid for a briefing about Tirek, the book has to come from the Crystal Empire library. Even assuming that Celestia would know she needs it from a vision, the vision that we accept as evidence that she does get visions arrives when she is already in the Crystal Empire. That makes the book contemporary with Star Swirl, or close enough. It depicts a white Star Swirl. So does the portrait in Three’s A Crowd. The one that returns from the Limbo in Shadow Play is grey. What is the source of this discrepancy?
3. For that matter, the book says and Luna confirms, that Scorpan approached the Sisters – whether on Star Swirl’s recommendation or not, we don’t know, but certainly because of Star Swirl – so according to Shadow Play, this would have to predate the existence of the Tree of Harmony and the Elements. How was Tirek defeated and captured? Why does the story not mention the Pillars, then? There are no missing pictures in the animatic, the four trailing ones appear on the same spread in the book on screen.
4. Is there any particular reason why the Maretonians would be insisting on a private discussion with the Sisters, include Cadance, and not include Twilight?
5. Why did the stained-glass window have the Friendship Journal on it? Carefully studying Princess Twilight Sparkle, I found that the book is already there – at which point, it most definitely did not yet exist.
6. What was Twilight doing for eight hours and who lowered the Sun and raised the Moon? How did she even get home, when she can’t fly safely?
7. What sort of game was Discord playing? If he were not sincere when he gave Twilight the amulet, the amulet would not become a key, which requires the betrayal by Tirek to be a surprise, and his betrayal of the Mane 6 to be sincere. At the same time, Discord was aware of the significance of the Journal. How much did he know and what exactly did he actually expect?
8. Did Discord have any prior encounters with Tirek or not? Tirek is consistently buttering up Discord, so there’s no question that he was aware that Discord exists, but Discord’s treatment of Tirek is ambiguous.
9. On what grounds did Celestia believe that Tirek is unaware of the existence of the fourth princess? Why did she think that putting all eggs into one basket is a better option than scattering all four princesses to the four winds? Why would knowing about having more than one alicorn power in her endanger her friends any more than being her friends in the first place?
10. At which point precisely do the Mane 6 realize that the Chest is the key to beating Tirek and why?

Somewhere along the way we have to make a choice between Chessmaster-Celestia, Kwisatz-Haderach-Celestia, Plot-Device-Celestia, and something else entirely. I’d rather it be something else.

But there are a lot of pieces missing, and the remaining ones don’t seem to fit together.

Comments

[Meta Four]

That makes the book contemporary with Star Swirl, or close enough. It depicts a white Star Swirl. So does the portrait in Three’s A Crowd. The one that returns from the Limbo in Shadow Play is grey. What is the source of this discrepancy?

Quoth the wiki:

People who are unfamiliar with horses may refer to gray horses as "white." However, a gray horse whose hair coat is completely "white" will still have black skin (except under markings that were white at birth) and dark eyes. This is how to discern a gray horse from a white horse. White horses usually have pink skin and sometimes even have blue eyes.

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Why did the stained-glass window have the Friendship Journal on it? Carefully studying Princess Twilight Sparkle, I found that the book is already there – at which point, it most definitely did not yet exist.

Evidence that whoever commissioned the stained glass window (Celestia Celestia Celestia) has some powers of foresight.

Or a scenario like Happy Endings is in effect. That entire hall is full of Deep Magic, and those windows spontaneously form to commemorate great Stories, so they’re capable of predicting future Stories as well.

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For that matter, the book says and Luna confirms, that Scorpan approached the Sisters – whether on Star Swirl’s recommendation or not, we don’t know, but certainly because of Star Swirl – so according to Shadow Play, this would have to predate the existence of the Tree of Harmony and the Elements. How was Tirek defeated and captured? Why does the story not mention the Pillars, then? There are no missing pictures in the animatic, the four trailing ones appear on the same spread in the book on screen.

Also, Celestia and Luna’s claims of being young when Star Swirl disappeared makes it unlikely that they defeated Tirek. And somewhat stranger that Scorpan went to them.

No mention of the other Pillars could mean that Tirek’s defeat happened before the Justice League of Equestria was formed. It’s also possible that Star Swirl just had a solo adventure while the other Pillars were elsewhere.

Another possibility is that all six of the Pillars were involved, and they were in fact the ones who defeated Tirek. It’s just that Shadow Lock’s censorship spree erased all the books that accurately described the event—leaving this book, written by a fanboy to make Star Swirl look better by ignoring the contributions of everypony else, as the only surviving account. You’d have to reconcile this somehow with Celestia and Luna’s claims that they never met the other five Pillars, though.

If none of those work, I think this would actually be a fine place to introduce some alicorn OCs as Celestia and Luna’s parents. They were the ones who defeated Tirek. Perhaps they were mortally wounded in the fight, even.

[Orbiting Kettle]

There is also the possibility that the whole, first Tirek debacle happened over the course of many years, with a timeline being something like:
+ Scorpan befriends Starswirl, Tirek studies Equestrian magic and plots. By the way, if he learned from the same sources that Starswirl used it may explain his blind spot regarding friendship.
+ Starswirl and Co. Disappear. Tirek sees and opportunity for his plans and starts putting them into motion.
+ Time passes, Celestia and Luna grow, Scorpan sees the plans of his brother and, remembering his friend, decides to intervene by contacting the next, best thing: two young Alicorns.
+ Misterious stuff happens.

[QueenMoriarty]

I genuinely can't think of a single way to justify Celestia's plan.

[Eruantalon]

We know Star Swirl has at least one time-travel spell, so the chronology is free to become even more convoluted if we want.

Otherwise, this can be evidence for an Eternal Principle of Harmony that can defeat Tirek existing apart from the Tree of Harmony itself.

[howard035]

Quite a lot to get through.

I agree with your intermixed timeline of this episode and the previous ones. It's also given me some thoughts on the Maretonians: Their visit is treated like a huge deal. The bowing and protocol seems to suggest the Duke and Duchess are treated as equals to the Princesses, all four of whom shclep themselves early to the Crystal Empire as a sign of respect. Most importantly,

“Your highness. Thank you for understanding our desire to keep the number of those privy to these confidential discussions to a minimum.”

What could be so top secret that Twilight Sparkle couldn't be part of the discussions? The only things I can picture are some sort of big defense treaty, or Maretonia actually joining Equestria on similar terms to the Crystal Empire.

you protect the Crystal Empire

Cadance's duties are interesting here. She doesn't spread love or anything, she protects this city, which already has a standing protection from the 2nd most powerful artifact in existence, and no known threats. I guess they're worried about a changling attack on the CE?

Wiki says it’s Canterlot, but I don’t see any clear indications that this is where it is.

It sure seems like it is supposed to be, but that's really dumb on Tirek's part. He is sneaking into cities to mug ponies for their magic. And he picks the one city halfway up a giant bare mountain, where people could notice him hiking up the side, even at night?

One unicorn is sufficient for Tirek to increase in size by at least 20% at this stage.

It definitely seems like Tirek is more focused on converting magic stolen towards rejuvenating and enhancing his body than anything else.

Celestia sleeps in her full regalia, the crown, the peytral, and even the shoes. 

Is it possible to consider that cartoon resolution?

“But Scorpan soon came to appreciate the ways of Equestria, even befriending a young unicorn wizard.” The illustration for this phrase depicts the white Star Swirl

And the Sisters never actually call him Starswirl! I think we're looking at fairly strong evidence of multiple Starswirls. Otherwise it would be really weird to call him "a young unicorn wizard."

He didn’t alert Star Swirl, he didn’t alert the Pillars, he alerted the two princesses, because he liked Star Swirl.

Which makes sense if there are multiple Star Swirls and this is after the first one was frozen in time.

suspecting that Scorpan did not actually return anywhere, but that Tirek killed him once he knew that Scorpan betrayed his intention to the local authorities.

Here's the problem with this theory: It makes sense on its own, but if hypothetically the writers were to bring back Tirek in the future, there's a strong chance they would want to bring back Scorpan as well, which would retcon this. Is it a good idea to avoid theories that make sense on the facts known but that writers are likely to Joss? I don't know.

“His time in Tartarus left him very weak. He has just now gained enough strength to use his dark powers.” 

This is weird. Doesn't Tirek gain his strength from using his dark powers?

Secondary canon later confirms that Discord’s dreams are subject to Luna’s magic in Friends Forever #20 and quite a few other cases.

Didn't Discord have to let her into his mind in a way normal ponies don't?

Discord’s meeting with Tirek needs to be analyzed very carefully.

It does, because both of them are liers looking to stretch the truth to gain leverage over the other.

Now, do we take this phrase to mean that Discord does not recognize Tirek, or not?

I think Discord says this to subtly demean Tirek. Of course Tirek is the only centaur around, but it makes him seem less unique.

Tirek believed Discord to still be imprisoned, though he never specifies how, and also believes he escaped – he definitely did not know Discord was released.

Or Tirek is pretending not to know as part of a gambit to shame Discord about his friendship with ponies by feigning shock. The entire sequence Tirek seems to be working towards a pitch of getting Discord to betray the ponies, leading him point by point to persuade him in a calculated manner we normally don't see in this show.

This implies Twilight and Discord having very detailed knowledge of these events. That’s a bloody lot of eavesdropping, and a huge leap on Twilight’s part.

I don't think its unreasonable that each of the ponies mentioned to Twilight "oh, also Cheese Sandwich gave me this rubber chicken to remember him by."

It’s like Rarity forgot that friendship is magic for a moment.

Yeah, that's an idiot ball. On the other hand, "when have you completed a difficult friendship task, and in doing so caused another pony to do the same" probably covers like 75% of all Twilight episodes, so its hard to narrow down.

Still no statement about earth pony magic, but it obviously counts as magic anyway,

Other than the show's sub-title, the word magic seems to refer mostly to unicorn magic, so maybe flight and strength are also being used in the same way to refer to race-specific abilities, even though those terms can have more general meanings?

• Keeping magic safe would not resolve this crisis.

Yup. I guess Celestia was really sure Twilight would solve the key problem in a few days anyway?

Now, a million bit question: On what grounds did Celestia reach this conclusion? If Tirek is not aware that Twilight exists, why would he be aware that the third princess exists?

Did Celestia and Discord plan this as some kind of elaborate stunt to unlock the box? It's really hard to think of other ways to explain that.

Tirek’s magic repertoire now includes illustrative illusions, an ability to open a portal directly to Tartarus, and heat projection, in addition to telekinesis

It seems like Tirek needs to consume an order of magnitude more magic to unleash each new magical ability/physical increase. It's logarithmic growth.

I already mentioned that eyeballing the size of the craters created during this battle gives us an estimate on the typical alicorn princess top power output on the scale of 5 kilotons TNT. 

I had forgotten, but thanks for the reminder.

• The full set of alicorn magic multiplies Tirek’s size by at least six. This growth is hardly linear, is it?

It's not, and it appears that Tirek dumped all this magic into physical growth, rather than magical abilities like he did previous absorptions. He's already shown off his more complex magic before, now he just wants a big tough form.

• Wait. “We have to get to the chest.” What’s the rush? At what point exactly did “proving your royal worth” turn into expecting an anti-Tirek trump card?

At this point Twilight has to suspect Discord was scheming all along when he gave her those bookmarks.

What sort of game was Discord playing? If he were not sincere when he gave Twilight the amulet, the amulet would not become a key,

The central question of this episode: Was Discord planning a reverse double-cross all along to help the Mane 6 open the box, with or without Celestia's assistance? Either yes or no causes a huge number or problems. I will say though, that in this case I don't think it matters whether Discord handed over the amulet with the expectation it would turn into a magic key (which he had to have realized he was doing ahead of time, whether or not his betrayal was real). As long as he was genuinely touched by Twilight's sticking up for him, I think the magic would work, even if he totally expected it.

Overall I have to guess Celestia was being a combination chess-master and precog. Her actions at every turn really make sense only if she and Discord had worked out some kind of plan, and she was sure he would prevent Tirek from killing anyone (I bet he made sure those Pegasi landed unharmed.)

I mean, Discord's actions are inconsistent and non-sensical at some point in this episode no matter what you believe, but this at least makes Celestia's actions mostly make sense, especially if she had other, unseen visions of future threats that would need the Map of Equestria to stop them, and decided Tirek was worth it.

[Oliver]

4724931

Quoth the wiki:

That works for a Doylist reason, but ponies could not possibly make this mistake. Also, ponies are not horses, and I’m going to have a post one day listing all the observed purely anatomic differences.

Evidence that whoever commissioned the stained glass window (Celestia Celestia Celestia) has some powers of foresight.

Upon further meditation, I found that it is not necessarily evidence for any precognition, and that by itself actually provides me with a thread to unravel the whole mess into something that makes sense. But that’s going to be yet another post, soon.

[Oliver]

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It sure seems like it is supposed to be, but that’s really dumb on Tirek’s part. He is sneaking into cities to mug ponies for their magic. And he picks the one city halfway up a giant bare mountain, where people could notice him hiking up the side, even at night?

Biggest unicorn-majority city, more ponies that wouldn’t get missed immediately if they were to suddenly disappear, no Pinkie or equivalent to throw him a welcome party, caves beneath the city for hiding in, the Sisters aren’t home for three weeks, most of their Royal Guard probably gone with them.

No, that’s a good city to pick.

Is it possible to consider that cartoon resolution?

No idea. I don’t think I remember any other shot of Celestia in bed. And in Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep, Luna sleeps in her shoes, peytral and crown. I don’t think there are any other primary canon appearances, so…

They’re glued on? :)

And the Sisters never actually call him Starswirl! I think we’re looking at fairly strong evidence of multiple Starswirls. Otherwise it would be really weird to call him “a young unicorn wizard.”

And Twilight saw this picture with us, but never asked for a clarification, but here’s an interesting thing… This depiction matches the one in Three’s A Crowd, and that is the Star Swirl she fangirls over just like she fangirls over the grey one.

Is it a good idea to avoid theories that make sense on the facts known but that writers are likely to Joss? I don’t know.

Depends on what do you plan to do with them. :)

This is weird. Doesn’t Tirek gain his strength from using his dark powers?

Upon further meditation, the phrase makes sense if you assume an unspoken “…on ponies.” at the end. Implying that prior to that, Tirek could only gain his strength by using his dark powers on something else, which did not provide him with enough magic to make him a threat.

Didn’t Discord have to let her into his mind in a way normal ponies don’t?

Nope. He did refuse to sleep at all, which caused him to sleepwalk, and which Luna swiftly ended with a spell.

I think Discord says this to subtly demean Tirek.

Or, referencing the meeting of Stanley and Livingstone.

Other than the show’s sub-title, the word magic seems to refer mostly to unicorn magic, so maybe flight and strength are also being used in the same way to refer to race-specific abilities, even though those terms can have more general meanings?

Maybe.

Did Celestia and Discord plan this as some kind of elaborate stunt to unlock the box? It’s really hard to think of other ways to explain that.

I think I’m getting there. The key idea in my chain of arguments is that this entire thing is exploiting a dangerous situation to make it a friendship lesson – but not for Twilight. An attempt that went really bad, for which Celestia had the correct counter, but Twilight just found a better one.

[Eruantalon]

4726052 I was just editing a friend's story the other day where the Peytrals are magical artifacts, and owning them gives Celestia and Luna certain magic powers. Maybe here, wearing them gives them magical powers?

[Oliver]

4727200

Like remote viewing? :)

[Eruantalon]

4727208 Maybe, given that's almost the one thing we can't immediately attribute to their cutie marks or their alicorn status...

[Production Run]

“You only mentioned it about fifteen times on the train here.”

Maybe the Crystal Empire has a public transit train system. Considering all the other ways they demonstrate their technological parity with modern Equestria, this isn't that unreasonable.

That makes the book contemporary with Star Swirl, or close enough. It depicts a white Star Swirl.

Did they actually state outright that it was Star Swirl? I only remember them saying it was a "unicorn wizard." I can't figure out much of a way for any of this to work assuming it was actually Star Swirl anyway, seeing as Tirek is aware of Discord existing and having been imprisoned, but not released. Him being imprisoned could be reasonably common knowledge in modern times due to his escape and recapture in The Return of Harmony, but you'd think if Tirek knew about that, he'd also know about Discord's release and Twilight's ascension. Him not knowing about that suggests he hasn't been paying even the slightest bit of attention to current events, so his knowledge of Discord would pretty much have to come from Discord's first reign, and the use of the Elements of Harmony to end said reign means it has to have happened after Star Swirl and Co. went to Limbo, since they weren't aware of the Tree and Elements existing, or at least not as they appeared in the flashbacks or modern times, until after their return well after this episode.

Why did the stained-glass window have the Friendship Journal on it?

It's possible that it might not be the Journal at all. All we see is a book with Twilight's cutie mark on the back cover. While this does match the Journal, it would make far more sense in this case for it to just be a bit of Twilight-related symbolism.

[Oliver]

4743846

Maybe the Crystal Empire has a public transit train system.

I think we would see that somewhere. Now, we know that the chamber under the castle is of different sizes depending on where it’s filmed from, i.e. that cartoon resolution is eating detail of the city. But it wouldn’t be something they would do unless they needed it, so it’s only a serious option if you assume the word “Empire” means an imperial organization of a country. There are other reasons to believe this is not so – for example, the regular use of the word “kingdom” to refer to places where no kings are in evidence.

Did they actually state outright that it was Star Swirl? I only remember them saying it was a “unicorn wizard.”

No, they didn’t. However, this “unicorn wizard” is present on illustrations shown to Twilight, rather than just shown to us, and matches the “Star Swirl” depicted in Three’s A Crowd.

[Production Run]

4744110
Personally, I assume the "Empire" is a vestige of some point in the distant past when it actually was an empire (there's precedent for this in real life- the Byzantine Empire continued to call itself an empire until long after it had shrunk to barely more than a city-state. For that matter, the Holy Roman Empire called itself an empire despite never having been one, instead being at most a confederacy), but it's since shrunk for reasons including, but not limited to, Sombra. Though it should also be noted that Party Pooped actually does establish that the Crystal Empire has some territorial holdings beyond the city itself because Cadance takes Pinkie to what she describes as the northern border of the Empire, which is very clearly not part of the Crystal Heart-protected city. If I had to guess, I'd say the Crystal Empire's remaining territorial holdings beyond the city itself are uninhabited by and likely uninhabitable to ponies (climate-adapted species like yaks are fine there), and only held for their resources (Rarity Investigates! states that some medicinally useful plant is found in the "Crystal Mountains," which certainly sound like they're somewhere in the vicinity of the Crystal Empire, and Sombra's crystal mining operations had to happen somewhere, and that somewhere certainly doesn't look like it's in the city itself).

However, none of that is actually relevant to my original statement. What I was referring to was a local light rail system, which wouldn't have to be visible because it could be mostly, if not entirely, underground. Granted, the only forms of public transit we've seen anywhere in Equestria are pony-drawn taxi carriages, ferries, and inter-city heavy rail (and possibly dirigibles, but since the only passenger dirigibles we've seen were a sightseeing vessel and military transports, I wouldn't count them), but since most of the show is set in a town way too small to have its own light rail system, that doesn't really mean anything.

[JazzyWaffles]

Say hello to something I didn't see you mentioning AT ALL in this POC post:

In the episode, the bookmarks in the Friendship Journal are in the order of Applejack, Fluttershy, Rarity, Rainbow Dash, and Pinkie Pie. Twilight also brings them up in this order when telling her friends about their "key" journal entries. This, in addition to Twilight bringing up the five key objects despite them not appearing in the IRL printed Friendship Journal, is, at least in my opinion, pretty strong evidence against the printed Friendship Journal's canonicity (despite the journal being released AFTER this season and AK Rogers having PLENTY of time to edit this), as well as strong evidence that Season 4's episodes do NOT happen in airdate order in the slightest.