Oct
28th
2017
Points of Canon: S4x01-02 - Princess Twilight Sparkle · 6:57pm Oct 28th, 2017
More displacement activity. I only have one and a half seasons left before this reference is complete, come to think of it.
Do you suppose I should write some manner of monumental “what I think of pony canon” essay when I’m done? Mind you, it will contain a lot of unkind words.
- For some reason, Twilight is training to fly in Canterlot, rather than Ponyville or the Crystal Empire. It’s important that she is not shown capable of coordinated flight, even though the ending of Magical Mystery Cure had her fly quite capably, if briefly. Many people pointed this out. Many offered explanations, some of them decent. Not being able to fly well is explicitly a plot point in this episode, mentioned in the dialogue in part 2.
- In the background of the very first shot, we see once again the strange orrery which implies that the Pony Earth has more bodies orbiting it (or otherwise attached to it) than the Sun and Moon. This thing comes up disturbingly often, it has been there since very early in the show development, and so far, nobody bothered explaining it.
- A bird’s nest that Twilight bumps into contains eggs, which would imply season, but we have a much clearer indication of season later in the episode.
- “You’ve already given up wearing your crown all the time.” This phrase is notable, because Equestria Girls, which wants to date itself very closely to this episode, starts with Sunset Shimmer stealing the said crown, which is the Element of Magic. And while Twilight is not wearing it there either, she hauls it around in her bag and plays with it before the mirror before going to sleep, which is what permits Sunset to steal it in the first place. Also notably, Rarity is surprised to realize that Twilight is not wearing her crown in the opening scenes.
“The Summer Sun Celebration is only two days away, and I’m never gonna be ready to perform my part.”
- It’s summer. Summer Sun Celebration is the “longest day of the year,” as per Friendship is Magic. In our calendar, that would typically fall on either 20-22 of June, or 20-23 December in the Southern hemisphere, (which isn’t where Equestria is as far as we know) but we do not know if the pony calendar is the same or not.
- We do not have unimpeachable proof that this is the first summer sun celebration since Friendship is Magic, at least not directly. The only argument against this, however, that I see cited is “Ponies would have too much happening too fast.” This argument is bogus because of multiple chronology loops introduced in later episodes – Tanks for the Memories in particular is notable, because it closes the time span that starts with May The Best Pet Win, which must not contain a winter. Ponies do live very densely packed lives. I have a hunch that an indirect proof exists through the creation of a chain of loops – something that forces May The Best Pet Win to be a Year 1 episode by forcing a later episode that depends on it to have a yearly lock to a prior Season 1 episode would be it – but I haven’t found it yet.
- “You look amazing, darling. They’ve really captured your regality.” Twilight gets her own stained-glass window, and Rarity probably wouldn’t say that unless that was her first time viewing it. Which is mildly important, because it turns up later in the season finale.
- “It’s everypony’s dream to someday wear a crown and have their coronation ceremony preserved in stained glass for all to see.” The episode solidly sets itself to after the coronation ceremony.
- “The official celebration may be here in Canterlot, but hoo-wee, has the Mayor put us in charge of one heck of a party back home.” Summer Sun Celebration is celebrated throughout Equestria whether Celestia is present for the festivities herself or not.
- “We’re gonna write you and give you so many details, it’ll be like you’re in Ponyville with us!” It’s interesting that later Pinkie confirms this by sending a letter from inside a moving train, which finds Twilight still standing on the platform – but did anypony else send her a letter? Pinkie did twice, but they all Pinkie Promised together.
- Rarity wields a color swatch. Not a given, and I don’t think I’ve seen those before or after.
- The station clock shows 10:31 or thereabout. I’m not sure just how reliable it is, if at all.
- For a change, Spike’s checklist does not use icons, but rather, written squiggly lines.
- “These are the first royal duties Princess Celestia has given me.” I believe this statement precludes Equestria Girls from happening before this episode concludes, since Princess Summit would count as a royal duty.
- “I must admit that it is wonderful to actually be looking forward to the Summer Sun Celebration. For my subjects, it has always been a celebration of my defeat of Nightmare Moon. But for me… It was just a terrible reminder that I’d had to banish my own sister.” This is a far-reaching and problematic statement. So what is it that the Nightmare Moon is supposed to have actually done to associate Summer Sun Celebration with her defeat?
- While Celestia and Twilight are talking, day gives way to night, and while Luna is raising the moon – and we see her horn glowing while she is doing so – Celestia’s horn is not glowing. The sun has definitely not been lowered before Celestia came in, as the windows are still brightly lit when she starts talking, so Luna has to be doing both celestial bodies at once this particular time, because the light is gone by the time she finishes. In any case, the sun has to be on the opposite side of the horizon, because we never see it directly in this scene.
- Twilight teleports the letter away without reading, and the letter is definitely from Pinkie, seeing as how it explodes into confetti upon being opened. As a side note, both letters in this episode are delivered by the same mailpony for a change, and it’s not a yet another new uniform.
- The plunder vine grew through the floor of the Canterlot Castle, took Celestia immediately after she left Twilight, and then apparently vanished without a trace, because nobody mentions seeing anything – including a hole in the floor, “It seems that Princess Celestia and Princess Luna have simply… vanished.” Despite Twilight explicitly asking for any clues to be brought to her, none materialize.
- As a side note, a plunder vine seed growing up in Canterlot – well before any plunder vines got to Ponyville – would require it to have existed before the Canterlot Castle was built, right? Legends of Magic #3 taken together with Shadow Play make that impossible.
- Once Twilight wakes up, both the Sun and the Moon are visible from the same window, requiring them to be on one side of the horizon. So, who put the sun back up? We never find out. Technically, Discord could…
- “What do you think it means?!” Seeing both bodies in the sky simultaneously is not normal by any stretch.
- “We’re officers of the Royal Guard. We take our orders from royalty. With Princess Luna and Princess Celestia gone, and Princess Cadance overseeing the Crystal Empire now, that means we take our orders from you.” See my arguments for the Royal Guard being Secret Service rather than Army in RTAC #4. Notably, both of these guards have saddles on their uniforms.
- The sequence of shots would imply that the throne room opens straight out onto the street, when in other episodes it does not.
- Spike faints twice. This is actually pretty strange.
- None of the Apples have ever seen plunder vines before.
- Rainbow is fighting plunder vine clouds, and I’m really not clear on how the hell are those supposed to work. She does identify them as “you Everfree clouds,” so she at least has an idea where they came from.
- Plunder vines emit some manner of pollen which makes unicorn magic chaotic. Rarity interrupts the telekinetic action by licking her hoof and touching it to her horn, apparently unable to stop it in the normal way.
- “Rarity, you have to help me! I think something’s wrong with my horn!” Notice that Sweetie Belle being here would require her to be spending the night at the Boutique, since Rarity just woke up.
- “Whatever is going on, I’m sure we’re going to need our friends and the Elements of Harmony to stop it!” While Twilight’s crown is visible, the rest of the Elements are not – they later turn up in the same display case they were in during Magical Mystery Cure. So – everyone left the library and nopony even put a guard out. If your story needs someone to take them, now’s the time.
- Lemon Hearts is in Ponyville, but I haven’t seen any of the other Canterlot Friends for some reason. In fact, isn’t she a photographer for official functions? Shouldn’t she, in particular, be in Canterlot for the Celebration instead?
- Spike uses a seatbelt to fasten himself to Twilight. This visual gag vanishes in the very next frame. Always use seatbelts, kids.
- Twilight teleports into the library through the wall into a spot she cannot possibly see. Notably, this time teleportation preserves at least part of her momentum, but converts most of it into rotation.
- “Oh, I hope you know we wouldn’t normally go through your books without permission…” But they’re in the front section of the library, the one that has the door open to the outside. Is this even a public library?
- Applejack does manage to cut the invading vine off with a window frame, somehow, even though in most other cases she failed to significantly damage the vine.
- The spell to summon Discord requires the invocation of the Elements.
- “Now, Twilight, you know Princess Celestia said that you were to give me a heads up before you summon me with that little spell she gave you.” Does this mean that it is possible to give him the heads up? He says Princess Celestia told Twilight to do it, and Twilight does not contradict him, so I’d say “yes” – but if so, why is there even a need to summon him? He could come himself.
- “Congrats, by the way, on the promotion. You totally deserve it.” Discord did not yet have a chance to talk to Twilight since she got her wings.
- “I say we blast him back to stone!” Notice that Rarity’s, Rainbow’s and Applejack’s Elements activate as they say this, as if it is possible for them to at least start this particular invocation without Twilight.
- Zecora owns a cart. We’ve never seen her use it otherwise.
- “I do not dare to use it myself, the results would be tragic. It only responds to Alicorn magic.” So why does Zecora even have this? Chances of needing a potion of plot-relevant flashback and having an alicorn handy would be rather remote.
- “Princess Twilight, you can turn the potion from purple to white.” This is the only description Zecora gives Twilight of what kind of spell does she need to cast to activate the potion. It is to Twilight’s credit that she does figure it out, but I have no idea how.
- Twilight’s horn lights up in the same colors previously used for Sombra’s magic in particular, wherein it was called “dark magic” – but this act is obviously “alicorn magic” in this case. This was used in numerous conspiracy theories.
Potion of Plot-Relevant Flashback, swig #1
- The Castle of Two Sisters had two thrones, equally positioned, rather than just one.
- “There can only be one princess in Equestria! And that princess… will be me!” As Luna says this, she slams her hooves into the railing – or whatever you call this detail in this particular case, a dais? – and leaves a hole in it. The hole does not match the one seen later in Castle Mane-ia, however. That would not be unusual if the hole were larger in modern day – a lot can crumble off in a thousand years – but it’s actually smaller. The path of the crack that runs up the wall to the window is slightly different as well, though the hole remaining from the stained-glass window that gets destroyed in the process is identical.
- While Luna was transforming into Nightmare Moon, the tapestries instantly attain the tattered look they have in modern day, even though they were whole before. Same about the thrones.
Nightmare Moon uses her horn to blast an alicorn statue high up by the ceiling.
- The statue is difficult to identify, being a bit abstract. You’d think it was a statue of Celestia, but actually, it could just as well have been a statue of Luna and I wouldn’t be able to tell.
- Notice that during Friendship is Magic, Nightmare Moon does not use her horn at all, whereas here, the battle is conducted primarily through the use of the horn.
- Frame by frame investigation shows that the statue starts disintegrating at least a few frames before the beam actually hits it.
- Nightmare continues pulling the beam across the ceiling, causing huge chunks to fall out, which will become important in a moment.
- When Nightmare blasts a hole in the ceiling as Celestia dodges – after her having taken a huge chunk out of it just a second ago, the ceiling still seems to be pristine – the Moon is visible through the hole, even though it was just visible in the opposite direction, through the window behind the Nightmare. And since the Sun did not show up, it would have to have been moving with the Moon. In the very next frame, we see the window again, and no sign of the Moon being visible through it.
- “Luna, I will not fight you! You must lower the moon! It is your duty!” Actually, does anything codify that duty?
- “Luna? I am… Nightmare Moon!” The flashback would have us think that this is a self-professed moniker.
- When Celestia leaves the castle through the hole cited above, the hole is there, but the damage done by Nightmare’s first beam that destroyed the alicorn statue is not.
- In the first shot where it would have to show up, while Celestia is running away from the Nightmare while the Nightmare is messing up the castle, the bridge across the ravine is missing. Later, when Celestia gets the Elements and is firing them, the bridge is present and is a rope bridge.
- It’s interesting that once Celestia catches a bolt to the chest, Nightmare never descends to verify if she is, in fact, dead.
- “Oh, dear sister. I am sorry, but you have given me no choice but to use these.” Notably, this throne room is nothing at all like the room the Elements were subsequently found in during Friendship is Magic. Yet Twilight identifies them anyway: “Are those the Elements of Harmony? But that’s how they looked in… the past.” Only, that’s not true either: They looked like round balls of stone, while here, five elements are openly stored gemstones, but the sixth is a round ball containing the star within.
When Celestia is using the Elements to banish the Nightmare, certain aspects don’t match any other uses of the Elements:
- Celestia is doing it while encased in a shield.
- Instead of a single light field between the Mane 6 producing a rainbow sheet, individual beams strike the Element of Magic before collating into a rainbow beam.
- This is the only opposed use of the Elements. That is, in all other cases, the one they are being used on is not presenting any obvious magical defense, but here, the Nightmare is firing a beam of her own in a tug-of-war. Notably, she is not using a shield.
- The rainbow beam eventually directly strikes the Moon with the Nightmare being pushed by the beam.
Somehow it looks to me that Celestia is not following the manual here.
This is kind of a lot of strange small details to just call them animation errors. I’d say the full story has not been told.
Back to Ponyville
- Discord uses a film-based movie camera, though it’s hardly particularly odd, since we know ponies have movie theaters.
Potion of Plot-Relevant Flashback, swig #2
- This is the first and only time we see the Sisters wear those lovely saddlebags.
- We never see this particular style of pony architecture up until Shadow Play.
- This use of the Elements is much closer to the uses by the Mane 6, with the exception of the shield appearing before the rainbow sheet fires – this time, it covers both Celestia and Luna.
Mysterious scene cut to the Tree of Harmony is mysterious, if only because it is accompanied by Twilight’s eyes lighting up within the flashback.
- “The Tree of Harmony.” So wait. Why did Luna gasp when seeing it?
“We have managed to discover the only means by which we can defeat Discord and free the citizens of Equestria. Even without these elements, the Tree of Harmony will possess a powerful magic. As long as that magic remains, it will continue to control and contain all that grows here.” (glares at Shadow Play)
- So before the Tree existed, what did control and contain “all that grows here?” Because the Castle of the Two Sisters was originally built, wasn’t it?
- I wonder just how did they discover that the Elements are removable, let alone that they can be used against Discord?
- If the Tree is in fact a seed planted by the Pillars, why exactly does it have Celestia’s, Luna’s and Twilight’s cutie marks? Especially considering that Shadow Play would have us believe it was planted after they got the said marks, and long after they moved out of the castle the tree is planted underneath.
Back to Ponyville
- Discord is using anaglyph 3D glasses. He’s not the only one caught doing that, by the way, The Doctor / Time Turner also did on one occasion. Do ponies have 3D movies?
- “The tree of what now?” None of them have ever heard of the Tree before, but notably, Zecora at least looks as confused as everypony else – which would imply she did not actually explore the castle before this, unless she’s just pretending to be confused.
- Just how did Twilight even know where the tree is? The section of the flashback shown gave us no way to gauge where it is located. The only hint appears to be “all that grows here,” but it could have conceivably been hidden anywhere in Everfree.
- “A cragadile! Run for your lives!” Actually, why would they need to cross this cragadile-infested pond when they did not at any prior or later time when going to the castle? Does Twilight know where she is going, or she’s using some mysterious invisible means of tree-location?
- “Maybe it’s right down there.” The tree is exactly beneath the castle, in a cave accessible from the ravine. Plunder vines make the cave easier to spot, but the cave also turns up in other episodes, notably, Castle Mane-ia.
- To return the Elements to the Tree, Twilight extracts them out of their golden necklaces / torcs / whichever, and applies only the jewels themselves to the tree. So what happened to the rest?
- Celestia and Luna emerge from the bundles of vines in the Tree cave. So how did they get there?
- “We know how difficult it must have been for you to give up the Elements. It took great courage to relinquish them.” Me, I’m wondering just how did Celestia know that was what Twilight did.
- “My plunderseeds should have stolen the magic from the Tree of Harmony and captured Princess Celestia and Princess Luna thousands of moons ago. Alas, it seems the tree had enough magic to keep the seeds from growing up big and strong. Until now, that is.” Actually, wouldn’t this imply the final confrontation with Discord would have to have happened somewhere in Ponyville area?
- Minuette and Twinkleshine are in the Summer Sun Celebration crowd. So that’s where they were hiding.
- “Citizens of Equestria, it is no longer with a heavy heart but with great joy that I raise the summer sun. For this celebration now represents not the defeat of Nightmare Moon, but the return of my sister, Princess Luna.” Well, this is as public a statement as any, though I wonder if the citizens indeed believed the Nightmare Moon was real, or it’s just Celestia thinking they did.
- The sun and the moon rise on the same side of the horizon, and in fact, nearly in the same spot. They rise where the princess wants them to.
Some thoughts
- The Equestria Girls movie wants to date itself to “just about” this episode, but actually, doesn’t have any space to take place remaining: Princess Summit would be a royal duty, and Twilight attests that managing this Summer Sun Celebration is the first royal duty she got. At the same time, the movie can’t happen afterwards, because afterwards the Element is returned to the Tree and Sunset can’t steal it. And there’s no break in the episode large enough to insert it, because the cold open starts with a statement that two days are left until the Summer Sun Celebration, while the movie needs at least three. The only way out is to assume that Twilight did not see the Princess Summit as a royal duty for some reason – but why?
- The Potion of Plot-Relevant Flashback might be lying, or at least containing significant breaks and omissions. It certainly does not fit present day visual evidence as strongly as I previously thought.
- After the battle with the Nightmare was done, Celestia had to have hidden the Elements in the Castle of the Two Sisters again – but not in the hole they were originally kept in. Why? For that matter, why didn’t she put them back into the tree? Both Shadow Play and Friendship is Magic #48-50 temporarily recover the Elements from the Tree, why not do this again.
- Shadow Play has problems coexisting with this episode. Not that this is a surprise. The biggest question it raises is… Why is the Castle of the Two Sisters called this way at all, and why does it have thrones for the sisters? The Journal answers that question, but Shadow Play is entirely incompatible with it and would have to override it.
…or Cloudsdale.
It's one of those temporally wonky concoct-after-drinking potions.
4710475
I can give you a good reason not to train to fly in Cloudsdale: It’s a long way down.
Ponyville or Crystal Empire, though, are important:
We have three important events that need to happen: Coronation, Summer Sun Celebration and preparations, and Princess Summit. The order is pretty certain to be Coronation Summit Celebration.
So at first, Twilight and the Mane 5 go to Canterlot for the coronation, then everyone follows her to the Crystal Empire for some reason, then they go back to Ponyville – the Mayor has petitioned the Mane 5 for help with the Celebration in Ponyville, I think she would do that in person – but they follow Twilight to Canterlot again…
Pretty convoluted, don’t you think? Feels awkward whichever way I turn it in my head.
Until recently this was the best show evidence of ancient history, so now with the S7 Finale there's a lot of finessing that needs to be done.
I was previously a strong believer of "Luna was just mentally ill with multiple personality disorder," but the S7 Finale tilts the balance of evidence strongly towards Luna making some kind of shadow pact with the Primal Darkness. The fact that there was a shadow lurking in the castle in Castle Mania might also be whatever peeled off Nightmare Moon.
Theory on this episode, Royal Duty and the first Equestria girls: The Princess Summit in the 1st movie is where Twilight was going to be assigned some royal duties, but instead she went off into the mirror. While the other 3 princesses waited for her, they discussed things and carved up the outstanding work between the three of them, so Twilight didn't get any actual "Royal Duties" out of the summit. A bit weak, but the best I can think of.
Timeline of the Everfree Castle Based on S7 Finale: Equestria, even if you believe ponies were living on that continent all along, the Everfree Forest was always wild and untamed, though probably not as bad as once the Plunder Vines started growing. Starswirl and the others planted the castle there as an occupying fortress in the middle of the wilderness. Perhaps a rest stop for Pegasi flying over the forest. Then they planted their seed below the fortress, in the hopes that the Tree would purge the Everfree of disharmony/wild magic over time.
The Tree of Harmony is a runaway AI that has vastly exceeded the plans of the Pillars, this we know. It probably has precognitive powers as well, that's how it knew to grow those cutie mark runes on its sides. (BTW, Celestia and Sunset's cutie mark would be virtually indistinguishable as a rough carving. Just saying). The princesses may have known the Pillars planted a seed in basement below the castle, or they may not, but either way it makes sense they would be shocked to find this powerful magical tree there.
While we're at it: From the S7 finale we know Hollow Shades is an area where the borders between the Material Plane and the Plane of Shadows are quite thin, enough for the darkness to "speak" to ponies. What if the Everfree is a similar area, but for the dimension of chaos? (And what if that sea village is a third area, connected to EqG world, and Starswirl just took sand from that beach and built a bunch of magic mirrors with it?)
4710501
So riddle me this: How did they know what to call it?
Given what you've had to try to untangle, I'd be surprised if it didn't.
I just assumed the vines tunneled their way to Canterlot to reach priority targets. They are Discord's creations; logic need not necessarily apply.
It's not clear what purpose she serves, simply describing it as "I do the big events." She may actually help organize the things, which you'd think would put her in contact with her old school chum-turned-royalty.
Or he could say no. The situation is such that they felt the need to force the issue.
However, the five non-Magic Elements do match the illustration in the book Twilight reads at the start of the series.
Good question. Given how the settings reappear in "Shadow Play," it's possible that they disintegrated shortly afterwards, but there's no way to know for sure. For all we know, the Tree's an easy way to crash the value of gold.
Dragged through improbably small vine tunnels. See above regarding logic, Discord, and the inadvisability of combining them.
Possibly because she saw it less as part of the burden of the crown and more as an orientation seminar? It's not like we ever find out what the Princess Summit is for.
I suspect it implants information directly, and the drinker's mind internalizes it by means of a shakily accurate narrative constructed around the hard data points.
Castles can be renamed, and the sisters did appear to be ruling at the time.
Together with the fact that the Summer Sun Celebration 1000 years after the defeat of NMM, is referred to as the "1000th Summer Sun Celebration", it's obvious that the holiday was originally established to celebrate NMM's defeat, not the longest day of the year. Perhaps ponies don't actually have the yearly cycle of differeing day/night lengths, the longest day of the year is just Celestia lengthening this one day as part of the Celebration, conmemorating her doing the same 1000 years ago in an attempt to balance out the extra long night they just had.
At least, not if they aren't being moved at the moment.
It's amusing enough to be taken more seriously as canon. I do wonder if pegasi have seatbelts, or it's just alicorns.
I suppose it could be a head's up of the form "I'll need to summon you sometime Friday", delivered via mail which we know he can receive but which would be slow. And also Discord may be unreliable in honoring requests for his presence.
She has an alicorn living in the nearest town, and a potion for gaining otherwise unobtainable insight into the distant past doesn't strike me as something you normally need on moment's notice.
Well, I certainly found it handy for dinstinguish this form of dark magic from the bright-colors-and-artifacts variety.
This is, however, how they looked like in exposition in the first episode. This is how we thought they looked like before Twilight got to them and actually saw them. I suspect this is also how Twilight expected them, based on illustrations in Elements of Harmony: A Reference Guide.
Frankly, I'm inclined to take the Journal and the comics above this particular episode. For these and other reasons. For and episode this centered around lore, it was really careless with it.
4710605
If you want to take it seriously, you’ll have to assume that it’s dragons who have the seatbelts: Spike pulls it pretty much out of his own ass…
4710616
They couldn't possibly perform their function that way tho.
4710619
We don’t exactly see them do anything in this case either. :)
4710625
Didn't you say something near the beginning about two interpretations, one of which requires the characters to be stupid?
4710631
I just don’t like this particular joke that much. :)
Hmm. Just two quick notes:
* I can see Twilight not deeming "show up at the Princess Summit" to be an official royal duty. It's not like she had to plan it or anything.
* If the hole's smaller in Castle Mania than when Nightmare Moon originally broke it, the conclusion is that Celestia half-fixed it before deciding to abandon the Castle and move to Canterlot.
4711123
If you go to the trouble of comparing the screenshots yourself, you’ll see that there’s no way this is possible, I’m afraid.
4710530 They effectively named it. Starswirl and the Pillars just infused a seed, they never call the results the "Tree of Harmony." We know the two sisters basically got the 6 elements wrong anyway, since they were probably the ones that mistook Hope for Laughter, Healing for Kindness, etc. Either Celestia, Luna, or someone who interviewed Celestia and Luna had to have been the person who wrote the Elements of Harmony reference guide.
4711404
This is slippery as all heck and you know that. :)
She used tree-angulation.
4711422 The Elements yes, but clearly the Pillars never came up with a name for their little botany project ahead of time.
4710501
4711123
Alternately, the Princess Summit from Equestria Girls isn’t a royal duty because “Princess Summit” is actually secret code for “Princess sleepover at Cadance’s house! Celly’s paying for drinks!”
4713549 Does that imply Flash Sentry is their as the equivalent of one of those "cops" that shows up at bachelorette parties?
4713580
That makes way too much sense.
I think I've come up with a reasonable explanation for the time shenanigans relating to Equestria Girls. The "princess summit" is a meeting called to discuss delegation of royal duties rather than a regular event, and as such, Twilight doesn't see it as one. She also views the events of the movie as more of a personal obligation than a royal duty, given her connection to the Element of Magic. That both justifies sticking it in an extremely narrow window between Magical Mystery Cure and Princess Twilight Sparkle and prevents it from conflicting with the latter of those episodes.