Karen Joy Fowler reviews "The Magician and the Detective" · 3:17am Nov 28th, 2016
Back in, gee, November 2014, you won me a review from Karen Joy Fowler by giving over $1000 to help fund Clarion, the famous science fiction & fantasy writers' workshop I went to back when I was your age still older than you, which I keep encouraging you to apply to and none of you ever apply to.
Karen did a detailed line-by-line critique, which is now lost, because (IIRC) she printed out the chapters and wrote on the pages, then tried to figure out how to scan them in and email them to me. I shoulda sent her a SASE.
Then she emailed me a very short critique, which I didn't want to post because some of you might have been like "WE PAID $1000 FOR THIS?", but I didn't want to ask her to do a 3rd critique either, until eventually my guilt outweighed my hesitancy and I did ask, in 2016.
Karen sent me this in June 2016, and I... didn't post it. Did not, in fact, even read it, despite believing all along that I was eager to read it. I suppose I was afraid to. I like this story a lot, and hate the idea of finding out that it's bad.
So let's see what she says. I haven't read it until this moment. 
I'll spoiler-tag the big spoilers for people who haven't read it.
Okay, I've completed my second review here and attached comments. Some overarching issues: I would cut most of the many moments when Watson deduces emotional information from somepony's facial expression, most often eyes and smiles. First, it gives him a seemingly superhuman ability to read faces, unless ponies are particularly transparent in this respect.
Huh. There are not many ponies in this story. I think she can only mean Watson reading Trixie. I'll look for that... I'm not seeing these many moments so far.
Second, the minute by minute colorplay -- now she's condescending, now she's less condescending, etc -- draws attention to the emotional information he chooses not to share in a timely manner -- things like when he first knows Trixie intended the invitation for Fetlock himself, or when he first felt his own sympathy for her, or what he made initially of her attempt to seduce Fetlock in the hotel room. Did he feel it was sincere or a manipulation? Would he have left Holmes in that hotel room and what would he have felt about doing so?
In other words, Watson's face-reading skills are inconsistent. I confess I don't see this. If she's contrasting Watson's face-reading during the magic show with face-reading in the hotel, I think the key difference is that Trixie is on her A game in the hotel because she's trying to manipulate Fetlock Holmes, not entertain a bunch of rubes.
The Doyle-ish writing style smooths out as the story proceeds, but feels unnecessarily wordy in the first section. I think you can produce the same effect without tangling us up in the sentences quite so much. For most, but not all of the story, you avoid contractions and I don't feel that's necessary either. It feels a bit stilted even in its attempt to be Victorian.
In dialogue, if Watson's voice can be differentiated a bit more from Holmes' that would be good. I, too, like the clever Watson as opposed to the stupid one, and it would be nice to see him have his own moments of expertise.
More sense of setting when they are out and about would be nice. I never have a sense of the temperature and little sense of the weather.
I never do understand the point of the kitchen fire.
I miss the moment when Holmes acknowledges his mistake in believing only the best hotel will suit her. I wonder what to make of her drab surroundings. Is this just to confound Holmes? Or is this truly all she can afford?
The sentences are less stilted and use more contractions than Doyle's. Would you folks rather the story sounded like it were written by Arthur Conan Doyle, or that it used correct grammar? Contractions?
Ooh, temperature and weather. Bother. One of my weak points.
How many people did / did not understand the point of the fire?
I did mean that Trixie could only afford a cheap hotel. I didn't have Holmes acknowledge his mistake because I think he hates acknowledging his mistakes. Perhaps Karen meant she wanted to see him have to do it.
I'm taken aback by how the moment when Trixie informs Holmes that it is easier to send some object to a place it has already been plays out. First I'm surprised that in his study of magic, he doesn't already know this.
I worried about that, but I thought I could get away with it. 
Second, I'm reluctant to believe that clever Trixie would have let this slip unknowingly. She wants him to have this information. So his audible response to it seems clumsy and un-Holmesian.
Argh. Reading it now, it does. I think that bothered me at the time. I wanted to make sure the reader noticed it. I wanted to not do that think Conan Doyle does where he makes the critical information seem unimportant by putting it in a seemingly superfluous relative clause.
Bother. I should change that.
Trixie isn't trying to feed him information, though--she's unaware of the lengths Holmes is going to, to try to explain away what she appears to have done, because she actually did it.
Some of the explanations of how magic works are great and a few make no sense to me. But that may just be me. If they make sense to you then nevermind.
I have the sense from Trixie's eager reaction to learning that Holmes is in the audience that she did not expect him to be there. But if so, what was her plan for the painting? The whole thing seems nonsensical if she didn't intend Holmes to attend all along -- if the show and its proximity to the Starry Night weren't her first invitation to him. Perhaps we could have a sense of her searching the crowd to find him as she performs? I would rather she saw through his disguise than that the curator outs him.
My intent was that she had no intention of doing anything other than her regular show when she went there, and made up her plan as she went on seeing Holmes there. Perhaps Holmes should explain this to Watson at the end.
I suppose having her out him would be more dramatic. It sounds like work. 
I would also rather her final letter was less pathetic and showed more pride. And was shorter.
Argh. Agreed, on both counts. Like many good critiques, she's telling me things I knew while writing it, but made excuses for. 
I don't feel I need to think she wants everyone to love her. Just that her superiority has made her lonely. How does a pony consign pages to the flames without burning his nose?
These things aside: still a very charming Conan Doyle pastiche, very clever through-out. Well written and thoroughly accomplished. I like the titles. Karen
Well! That wasn't so painful! I may even work up the energy to fix some of these things.
... but not tonight. 
Whoa... wait a minute. There are attachments.
She imported each chapter into Word, and made comments on the 11 separate docs. And line edits. Lots of line edits. In red. 
... I have work to do.
Just wanna confirm whether i understand this blog post correctly:
you raised a lot of money to donate (good job on that by the way), and this won you some feedback on your work from a professional writer. You proceeded to use this feedback on your My Little Pony / Sherlock Holmes crossover fanfiction?
...you are a braver person than I. One day I hope to be so self-actualized that I can wear all my passions and interests so openly as you do.
Most informative is your reaction to this reaction. Looking out for one's own excuses while writing sounds like a skill that should be cultivated.
I like her. If she's not a pony fanfic writer, yet this occurs to her, I like her lots
...
Well. That's one way to use a professional review.
4320227 I raised the money from ponyfiction readers, so it seemed only fair to fly my pony flag high. Anyway, making a pro writer read a ponyfic was part of the fun.
I've found it quite a process to learn to read my writing from the perspective of someone who only knows what's on the page. Even then it doubtless pales in comparison to actually getting someone else to read it and provide feedback. And it is an entirely separate journey to learn to diagnose and then to cure the symptoms of disease one detects, one I am nowhere near to completing. (The view is wonderful, but I can't find any postcards that don't have ponies.)
Regarding your decision to spend the money on ponyfic, for better or worse the horse words we share on this website have a better chance of touching people's souls and even perhaps their brains than anything original most of us might try to write. Amazing what sticking a pony in will do to stimulate the demand for literature.
Well well well... the review finally showed up. I had given up hope and (kinda not really) forgotten about this. I mean, I did help the donation amount explode hilarious with the sheer amount of money I shoved in and caused Horse confusion, which was probably the most amusing part for me. I'm thinking that alone was worth it, but I'm greedier than that.
Still waiting for that writing project regarding fanfic authors showing others they can totally do original fiction just as well as the professionals to resurface from the closet of iforgotthings. What was it... maybe three years ago? That one friend is still waiting for an answer (dang you evil Bad Horse), and I've met a few new people with the skill and wit necessary to accept such a daunting task. I can totally point them in your direction. If this project ain't dead and buried six feet under, of course. Dead corpse projects are a hard sell to most people, eh? Reanimated corpse projects, not as much.
I'm only annoyed that it took so long for any news to surface. Actually, I recall a brief mention in a blog awhile ago. But still... well I kept thinking to myself, when I wasn't busy forgetting, I should totally badger Bad Horse about this. Well...
Isn't it strange how the urge to be polite outweighs the need to be forward in a situation, to collect on an opportunity, to the point that it just stagnates sitting there, or is outright lost, offering itself to someone who's more inclined to the urgency of the of it, taking action as soon as those gates burst wide open? It's quite the weakness for some people like you and I, eh. Heh... or maybe it's procrastination, or maybe it's the venom of antisocialness coursing through the veins. Meh, it's a bit of everything, perhaps. I guess? A lack of gall, a lack of courage :\
It's still funny to cash in on something when the person who owes you has completely forgotten about it
Haaa... at least I can put it to rest. My money went to something. Oh, and it helped some people go attend a writing course. Sure. That thing :B
Still haven't read The Magician and the Detective. Titty D urged me to go and read it at Bronycon, and that's pretty damn convincing on its own. I've been thinking that I haven't cuz of length, but I'm not gonna lie. I don't exactly have an interest in Sherlock Holmes? <:3 Y'know how it's kinda hard to read fanfiction for fandoms you aren't part of. Like, you never have even seen or read or listened to the source material, and it takes a lot of badgering from someone to actually read it cuz the story is of interest? It's something like that. Yeah, I do feel I'm missing out on something. So maybe I'll read it. Someday... ok, the review from Karen is pretty darn convincing enough to entice.
Maybe later
... It should've been Burning Man Brony. No, not because it likely had a higher probability of offending Karen teh heh :P
Seriously, I actually do like that story a lot <_<
Heh, that's the story I followed you for originally. I need to re-read it.
So you paid a thousand bucks for a job that was finished over a year late and to standards much lower than promised.
I'm afraid this is of a piece with my own experience: if a nerd promises you a hamburger on Tuesday, expect that there won't be a hamburger and there may not be a Tuesday.
4320660 It wasn't hiring someone to do a job. It was raising money for Clarion and raising (I hoped) awareness at Clarion of fan-fiction.
I'd rather raise money to send a ponyfic writer to Clarion, though.
4320323 Props to yamgoth for being the biggest single contributor! Actually the whole thing was a scam to find out his true name.
4320922
Sure, of course: it was money donated to charity, but the charity promised you something in return, and Fowler signed up to keep that promise.
But what you got, unfortunately, was "the dog ate my homework."
s3.amazonaws.com/bronibooru/6539cc3fa29fee048709655a41fb5293.gif
Anyway if you're not mad then there's less than no reason for me to be mad. I still think it stinks, though.
4320993 She worked hard at it, but some technical problem intervened. Like, she'd made her comments on an e-reader and then discovered she couldn't get them off of it. I forget what the problem was. She did't get any of the money.
This is absolutely hilarious, but she is On. Point. with her critiques!
4321883 Can you think what she's referring to when she says Watson is superhuman ability to read faces? I still don't understand that one.
4322070 I don't get it, they're ponies not humans.
(pay me $1000 and I'll say something useful)
I apologize in advance for this being so long. Maybe bring a sandwhich.
This critique doesn't surprise me: it's a bit of a mlp fanfiction hallmark (maybe all fanfiction even, I don't know) to focus on facial expressions and other body language bits consistently throughout a conversation. Regular fiction (that I've paid attention to while reading) more frequently uses Talking Heads, and the body language is often of a different nature, if it's there. So it doesn't surprise me she would pick up on this. Neither method or lack thereof is inherently better or worse. It depends on what style you want to use and what you want to convey with that.
I feel I should say: beware of professional writers or people with Lit degrees (er, no offense to anyone). Lit degrees in particular can be of tremendous use, but having been well-trained by "the system of current thought", they can also be constrained by it, falling to such, I feel, problems as emphasizing grammar over story elements, and focusing on minutia instead of trying to look at the whole picture. I've noticed also they tend to miss sort of obvious details leading them to needlessly critique things.
Professional writers I think can be rather opinionated on what constitutes "good prose" and it will very likely look awfully close to what they write, or, of course, their favorite authors. There isn't much stretchiness there.
In general both types have a box and they tend not to leave it. So always keep that in mind when you hand one of them, of all things, a fanfiction. :P You're almost asking for it when you do that. Their limitations with the source material will cause them to over compensate in other areas.
As for what exactly she was complaining about here, I think this is what she meant: Watson, as a first person narrator, intuits emotion and intent from other characters, based on their body language or expression. Here are some examples:
(in this particular case, how does Watson know Holmes notices the curator's puzzled reaction?)
As opposed to when Watson records only actions and gives no interpretation:
(This is the kind of stuff Show Don't Tell enthusiasts drool over and dream about)
Watson also intuits emotion from tone of speech:
I think much of Karen's complaint is predicated on the fact Watson is a first person narrator, not a third person. This would seem to cut him off from the internal state of being of others, preventing him from discerning a cheerful smile from an ingratiating one, and such and so forth. In a way this is true, but there are issues with this.
One might think, "It's in first person so there's no way the narrator could know these things!" to which I reply, "Don't you think anything of the people you interact with in a day? You've never interpreted the feeling, meaning or intent behind what your cashier said to you at the grocery store? Never thought someone was nervous, or trying to cover up for a social mistake or offensive word which was clearly accidental? " They say, "Yes, but you interpreted their expression, tone and body language, and that's what you should describe." To which I say, "Why? If I can intuit someone's feelings with a glance, why can't my narrator, without having to explain why? Am I not allowed to say to my brother "That was a nervous cashier", I should instead say, "Did you see how his eyebrows ticked and his nose twitched and his voice warbled a little, and he scratched at his left shoulder"? (To which my brother is well entitled to say, "Yeah, so?") Why must all narrators be tone-deaf, socially ignorant people with the intuition of a rock but the propensity to record facial and body minutia?
There are limits to the first person narrator, as you are well aware, but most people take them to the extreme. "The narrator can't know anything!" Which is ridiculous.
So I wouldn't worry overmuch about what Karen says here. Really, it all depends on the experience you want to craft for the reader. If you want them to know Holmes has an ingratiating smile, then so be it. I can tell when someone has one too. I don't need to be omniscient. Of the passages above, the ones where I think Watson actually steps abound are:
(can be easily fixed with a little wordplay)
(also easily fixed)
Moving on! ^.^
This was hard to understand, but I think she's asking, essentially, "If Watson shares his thoughts on certain things about Trixie, why not on others?" Which, I don't know, seems like a dumb question here. Watson didn't know Trixie meant the tea party for them until Holmes did, and Watson was open about when he began developing sympathy for Trixie. No, he doesn't say what he thinks of her attempts to seduce Holmes, nor whether he would have left the two of them together. But why does he have to? This seems to me a case of the editor mistaking their preferences/unmet desires while reading with actual flaws in the story. And actually, Watson does relate his feelings on Trixie flirting with Holmes and Holmes' reactions--he finds it weird, awkward, bewildering, and in a way fascinating.
I'm not familiar with Doyle's style, so I can't comment here.
I don't disagree with this, but I also wasn't bothered by these things while reading. I never noticed them. I'm unsure how necessary changing them is.
...Ah.
She's that kind of an editor.
You know, being as well read as I would hope a professional writer of her position to be, I would expect her to know that Setting Description is not a necessary principle of writing, or even a principle, and to realize when her personal preferences are mixing with her editing efforts. The least she could do is frame the "criticism" in the context of your purpose for the story (i.e. setting description as an extension of the tone or theme), but I doubt the thought of helping you achieve what you wanted to achieve ever crossed her mind. Granted that's most editors but still.
Anyway, add setting description if you want, when done right it's certainly always nice, but I never noticed its absence while reading and I would definitely hesitate to say it's necessary without a lot more time to think about it. "a sense of the temperature" good flippin grief...
I think she means "I never saw why it was necessary." Even Watson says this:
I didn't see why Trixie wasn't already providing enough of a diversion either, but I figured Holmes couldn't get back stage unnoticed. I also presume he expected Trixie to flee the cafe as well, which she didn't. All in all it wouldn't hurt to clarify things a teensy bit.
I also thought she was in the cheap hotel on purpose and not because she's broke; after all, at this point we the reader think she's a criminal, and she's already proved elusive, so it makes sense she would pick an unexpected hotel. If you want the reader to realize at that moment she can only afford a cheap place, as a counter to the idea she's a villain and a set up for the later reveal, I would add a further detail or two to clarify this to the reader, but obviously not Holmes or Watson. Which might be hard given Watson is the narrator, so perhaps he should notice, but think nothing of it. Maybe they see some of her clothes and they're old and worn out, indicating she hasn't bought any in a while.
Yeah, I thought Holmes ought to know that as well.
I can't say whether it's Holmesian, having never read Holmes, but his shouting "of course!" did seem a bit silly. You could still get the reader to take notice though: after all, Watson is familiar with Holmes and has seen lots of his "aha" moments, and would thus recognize the dawn of realization on Holmes face, however subtle and undetectable to Trixie it might be.
They all made sense to me, but perhaps I'm just used to them from all the ponyfic I've ingested. I can see how someone on the outside might have trouble. But...why care about someone on the outside??
Not sure how she came to that conclusion. Once I learned Trixie didn't actually steal the painting, it's obvious she was just hosting a regular show at the cafe.
I thought she'd maintain more dignity as well. However, it's a tradeoff. Trixie humbling herself and baring her heart to Holmes, especially the "please" at the end, really sharpens the knife you dig into my heart when Holmes burns the letter. Make Trixie less humble and it's less sad. Depends on which effect you want more.
I don't think it needs to be shorter.
Hmm, maybe. Depends on what your interpretation of canon Trixie is and how much you want to echo that. It is still a fanfiction, after all.
...mmmmaaaybe.
I'd bring some salt.
And some second opinions.
I suppose, given how much you care about this story, you aren't willing to let it rest as an inherently valuabe piece in the history of your growth and experience as a writer, and will instead be content to tinker with it until judgment day? I ask as a friend.
4334780 This is fantastic. Thank you very much. Unfortunately I can't make edits until Dec. 17.
4335541
I wish you wouldn't edit it. I wish all writers could accept their published work here on fimfic. Look forwards, not backwards! But I guess I can't blame you; maybe some day I'll feel the same, who knows. Anyway, if at anytime you'd like my opinion on her edits, just let me know and I'd be happy to give it. :)
4334780
Yes, that's right. I'll mostly let it sit, but when somebody points out real problems, I'll fix them if I can.