The Worst MLP Episode? · 12:56am Nov 8th, 2015
I would still put "The Mysterious Mare Do Well" as the worst episode of MLP:FiM but today's episode, "What About Discord?" is certainly a top contender for the number two spot.
How do you make John DeLancie not funny? It takes a lot of effort. When I asked my friends this question, they pointed me to episodes of Star Trek: The Next Generation Seasons 1-2 and Star Trek: Voyager. That's a pretty damning statement. Watch SF Debris for more on THAT count.
As for today's episode--I thought this was some sort of Producers scheme, to make as bad an episode as possible to embezzle money or something. Nothing worked. It wasn't funny, engaging, none of the characters behaved in a realistic or likeable manner and the moral was a complete failure. I normally don't give my own opinions on each episode here, instead chatting with my friends, but this one got me right in the core of my anger. I hate this episode. I despise it, in fact.
Everything we saw suggests that everything was part of Discord's plan to mess with Twilight. She didn't know he would be around, or that her friends would be hanging around with him that weekend. Add to that the fact that he deliberately tried to exclude her--they all point to the conclusion that he chose that particular weekend to 'bond' with the others expressively to mess with Twilight, and not out of any genuine desire to be friends with Rainbow Dash, Applejack, etc. Add to that the fact that while Twilight was (rightfully) surprised at this 180 degree turn in her friends' attitudes, she was not jealous until Discord constantly made 'inside jokes' and alluded to the past weekend in a deliberate attempt to mess with her. So, yeah. If an episode's moral is contingent on having one character provoke another character into behaving in a particular way, just so he could then lecture and 'teach her a lesson' about not behaving that way--the episode FAILS. Period.
The driving force and ultimate problem wasn't that Twilight was jealous and couldn't accept it, but that Discord was being an evil BLEEP and there would have been no problem if only he'd stayed away. So in order of whom I would ascribe the most responsibility for making the worst mistakes this episode, it would go: first, Discord for causing this whole mess. He can't be excused for trying to 'teach Twi a lesson' when there would have been no problem without him. So him playing a positive role is spin-doctoring. Next on the blame list is Twilight's friends for being too dim to realize Discord's pretty obvious intentions, and for acting horribly.
Applejack's "what kinda manure have you been smelling?" is one of the ugliest, nastiest things said on this show. This is Fluttershy "who gives a flying feather" from Putting Your Hoof Down....only it's worse because Fluttershy was clearly the one acting wrong--and we're supposed to think Twi is out of line and insane with jealousy? Yeah, no. Not buying it for an instant. Twi's suspicions were, basically, correct. Discord might not have been using magic, but he was manipulating her friends for his own purposes. Only AFTER all of them would I start to criticize Twilight's actions, chiefly for her idiotically expressed attitude that she's NEVER expressed before and can be more properly attributed to lousy writing. And since this guy has only ever written "Princess Spike" I know where I'd be placing my bets on that one.
I'm just sort of stewing at this point. Suffice it say, I'm never going to write a story based on this premise in Dashverse.
Oh dear.
Mare do Well was more annoying because of the weakness of plot and OOC, but this is undoubtedly the least entertaining episode ever. You're right about how weird it was to pin it on discord at the very end, but even though his motivations were not pure, it doesn't mean his interactions weren't genuine. I almost don't want to argue about that, however, as it detracts from the most important part: the episode was not entertaining. Not on a scene by scene basis, not by line by line, and not plot-wise either. It was like the third act of the new coco pommel episode but for the entire episode. It was "functional" in many ways MDW was not, and people are giving it a lot of credit for that, just because spike wasn't an idiot, even /mlp/, but it distinguish itself in any way.
I pretty much agree with everything you said. Honestly even the visual gags were fairly weak so those didn't save it at all. I have to believe that the only reason this episode got the green light was because it had Discord in it and 'everyone likes Discord episodes' was expected to carry it.
I found the ending actually made the episode even worse than it had been. For some reason they had to redo the entire episode in 30 seconds with Discord in Twilight's place. Bleh indeed.
3528451
I think a lot of the humor fails because it's just Discord doing random things that we're TOLD are funny---but that you had to be there. It's like this bit from Animaniacs: https://youtu.be/vGER-JPsXC8?t=18
But this episode fails because things are just happen because the plot needs them to happen. But the worst mistake was using Discord and this moral. Let's put aside Discord's obvious manipulations. Say he was being totally sincere in being friends with the Mane Six and Twi was just occupied at the time. Let's say he wasn't trying to mess with Twilight...It STILL wouldn't work because of all the baggage that comes with Discord and his relation to the Mane Six, such as his history of manipulating them--both with and without magic. If any of them: Rainbow Dash, Rarity, Pinkie Pie, etc. went away for three days and came back with Discord being best friends with the others--they'd be suspicious too. So a moral about jealousy doesn't fit as much as a lesson about being suspicious or giving someone a second (or third or fourth or fifth, in Discord's case) chance.
3528475
See the comment I just posted.
3528477
Another good point. I wonder if the original pitch for the episode had some other pony in Discord's role and when it came time to finalize it was found to be to weak so they simply swapped in Discord for 'free' rating points.
Yeah, this is the new Mare Do Well
And what makes it worse in some respects if they had just made two changes, everything would have been fine concerning the Mane 6: Just have Discord say he asked Twilight to hang out when he really didn't and instead of not laughing at Discord's jokes at the end because they got old, they could have stopped laughing because the context of the entire day just changed for them from them hanging out with Discord to Discord doing something to screw over Twilight and trying to steal her friends. Discord would still be as big a dick as we know him to be, but the girls would come off as much less uncaring and turncoat like they're SUPPOSED to be.
As for the moral...yeah, Twilight should have just called BS on it. "I wanted to make you jealous to show you that you can be jealous" makes about as much sense as Discord going "I wanted to hurt you and make you feel alone to prove to you that I can hurt you and make you feel alone."
3528673
Yes, I found the reaction to Discord's revelation as WAY too restrained. And they should have done precisely what you said.
That scene at the round table was awful. It made me think of the scene at Sugarcube Corner in "Mare Do Well" when all of Rainbow's friend just started laughing at her. It was vile, nasty and awful, and so was that scene in today's episode. It cuts against the very nature of this wonderful show.
God, I hate the phrase, "It's the new Mare Do Well." This episode would be just as shitty if that one had never aired, and they're both bad in different ways. /complete killjoy
But yeah, I pretty much agree with you on this. It was awkward all the way around, to the painfully forced sounding laughter from Dash and Discord at the start to the even more awkward and obviously shoe-horned in bit at the end where they make another inside joke with just Twilight.
Jeez, how can the same season contain such a good episode like Crusaders of the Lost Mark and this? Now I'm really getting how everyone felt about S2 re: Hurricane Fluttershy and MDW.
3528702
The ending was the big reset button. Discord created shared jokes with Twi's friends to make Twilight feel awkward, so now they all had a shared laugh that Discord couldn't get and that somehow makes them all even and able to move on---despite the fact that Discord flatly admitted to manipulating the ponies and events just to hurt Twilight. In any rational universe, the story would've ended with a series of horseshoes imprinted on Discord's backside. But since they don't want to have anything smacking of an appropriate or realistic response in this episode, they just gave Discord a small 'taste of his own medicine' (god I hate that phrase) so now everything's fine.
What a complete load.
3528717
Gross, you're right. That sucks. I get we're not the primary audience here, but even so, I hate being talked down to like that by the writers. You'd think they would take into account how poorly they come off providing a 'moral' that wasn't even a problem until it was arbitrarily forced by the plot. Then! It just gets reset. It's so lazy and boring. What a bummer.
3528746
If they can have episodes that deal with the grieving process (Tanks for the Memories) or helping others overcome social trauma (Amending Fences) then it is not at all unrealistic to demand a certain level of competence and maturity, regardless of the intended age demographic.
Just food for thought. In the 1990s there were two shows going on at the same time. One was Star Trek: Voyager. The other, Gargoyles on the Disney Afternoon. The former was the flagship show of an entire channel, UPN, and the other was part of a cartoon line up on Disney.
In an episode of one series, there was an episode where a character lost someone very close to him. It was an emotional, touching character piece ... that was never mentioned again in the rest of the series. On the other show, actions had consequences. Things like pain and grief and loss and death had lasting impacts that were felt throughout the series. They built on those experiences to fully flesh out the characters. That series was Gargoyles, a.k.a. the animated cartoon on the same channel as the show about the farting warthog. The show killed a character's daughter and never mentioned it again was Voyager. So I don't believe that just because a show's 'intended audience' might be lower than another show's, doesn't mean they can't deal with mature themes and approach them realistically.
So I will rake this episode over the coals for its severe shortcomings and not let up just because we're not the target demographic. If anything, I think shows for younger audiences should be held to a higher, not lower, standard. That scene where Applejack asked Twilight "what kind of manure have you been sniffing" was horrific. I wouldn't show that to a kid--not for the implied language, but just how a 'friend' could treat another...and that we were supposed to see TWILIGHT as the one who needed to learn a lesson!
Like I said earlier, what. A. Load.
3528771
Oh yeah. No no, I definitely agree with you. Sorry it came off like I thought it didn't matter if it was bad if it was for kids. Kids understand a lot more than we give them credit for. One of my favorite shows of all time right now is an incredible kids cartoon. We should hold their entertainment to a higher standard, or at the very very least, respect them as an audience. Not shovel crap into their mouths.
I wanted to like this episode, because it did have some good stuff in it, but yeah, there was a lot to dislike about it.
I mean, even the part where they gave Starlight Glimmer a cameo to tie it to the finale was forced, and that's in a season that has been chock full of playing continuity off of itself. This episode just fell flat... I enjoyed Twilight going kind of Lesson Zero toward the end, and the references to It's About Time (and Pinkie's Marty McFly getup) which was timed with the previously mentioned Starlight Glimmer cameo, but the other episodes just did it all better overall.
That said, there were some things that are likely to be carried forward... Over a Barrel gave us Braeburn and Mare Do Well gave us... well, Mare Do Well, in spite of the overall episode quality.
Every show is going to have dud episodes, even something as awesome as Avatar: The Last Airbender had some lacking episodes. I feel Mare Do well is still the worst episode that comes to mind, as it's Rainbow's friends who went ahead with a plan to deliberately manipulate one of their friends. This episode, What About Discord? It was just meh all the way through, not even getting an angry reaction outta me. I kept pausing the episode to do something else, because it failed to keep my attention. Mare Do Well actually kept my attention, because their were at least some interesting visuals. There was a real lack of memorable imagery in this episode, how do you do that in a Discord episode? He's always doing something interesting, like Dressing up in various costumes, transforming himself, making objects out of thin air etc. This episode is at the very least, the worst Discord episode.
I dunno. I agree that the episode was something of a dud, but I wouldn't call it horrible. It may be the worst episode of the season (mainly because so many have been so good), but it had its good points as well. I like the fact it is shown that Discord still has to work out some of his old bad habits. He's a manipulator, and that's how he gets his jollies. I'm certain the rest of the characters noticed this, as the looks they were giving him near the end left little doubt.
I think the turnaround at the end (while rushed) was somewhat intentional by the Mane Six once he'd all but admitted what he'd done (he still has a tendency to gloat) and to show him what he did to Twilight. When he had a similar breakdown getting a dose of his own medicine, Twilight came in to offer an olive branch (or in this case, orange) to show they knew what had happened, and that there were no hard feelings since he seemed to understand what he'd done. I think it was good to show that the girls understood and were willing to forgive his little misstep. And yes, for Discord, this was a little misstep.
I think Discord is a deeply flawed character. He has been an unpleasant personality for a long time (centuries), living only for his own amusement at the expense of others. It will take him some time to fully come around and drop his old manipulative and self-indulgent shenanigans. While this episode was a bit ham-handed about it, I think it did a decent job showing this potential character growth.
3529136
The turnaround at the end I think only made it worse. It was rushed, came from nowhere and attempted to make a rushed 'balance' between Discord (who committed a truly horrible act) and a weak counterjoke from the Mane Six. And then they're suddenly all friends, so it's all good! Magic reset button, deployed! It was a cop out. Discord should've gotten his plot kicked and told off. To end with them all hugging and smiling was the ultimate middle finger to top off a truly bad episode.
3529368
I agree the end was a bit rushed, but it was actually my favorite part of the episode. Everything before that was rather painful. However, I disagree that the turnaround came out of nowhere. I think the girls saw an opportunity to pull Discord's trick back on him. Besides, I think the reason it felt rushed is due to how much stuff happened. There was a lot of subtext in these last two scenes.
1) The girls, while upset by Twilight's accusations and reaction, recognized she was having another "Twilight Moment".
2) Twilight got wise to her own mistake = a little more character growth. Hey, at least she didn't throw the entire the village into chaos as a result of her overreaction. Foal steps.
3) Discord's showing up to gloat some more, and showing he was up to old tricks again.
4) The girls realize Discord has made a misstep in his prank on Twilight, but also know they had a great time with him over the weekend and actually bonded.
5) The girls decide to turn the tables on Discord.
6) Example of feminine telepathy.
7) The whole potion situation earlier becomes a friendship moment that can be joked about (showing forgiveness of Twilight's overreaction) in the same method that was driving Twilight mad.
8) Discord sees how it feels to be on the receiving end of what he may have seen as a harmless prank, but also realizes that he is being forgiven.
9) The Mane Six (not just Fluttershy) are forgiving Discord for his misstep, rather than outright dismissing him or trying to shame/shun him (which they have done in the past).
10) Discord and Mane Six resolve to laugh off the events and forgive all around, and laugh at the silly moment they all just shared with Twilight's overreaction and Discord's misstep.
11) Group realization: Life happens, mistakes happen, nopony's perfect, in hindsight, this is something to have fun about later. Bonding.
That's a lot of stuff to happen in about five minutes. Shoot, I don't think that's all of what I saw when I watched it, just what I can remember this soon after waking up. So yeah, rushed as all get out. They could have done it a lot better. However, as fast as it was, it made it a bit tricky to catch all the little things that went into the subtext and frankly, it made me smile seeing all these little things coming together after a fairly slow episode.
Still, not a successful episode, but I maintain it had its good points.
3529680
For me, it was the worst part. Discord should NOT have been forgiven. Period. This was not something that could or should have been brushed aside. The "everyone shares a laugh and they're all friends together" to me, is the epitome of lazy hack writing--and this was in an episode where I think "lazy" and "hack" was part of the mandate. In fact, this episode made me really doubt, for the first time, the wisdom of 'redeeming' him back in "Keep Calm and Flutter On."
Every time he's interacted with the Mane Six: "Three's Company," "Princess Twilight Sparkle," "Make New Friends But Keep Discord," "What About Discord" have shown him progressively becoming more and more petty and venal. He lies, he manipulates--and unlike "Return of Harmony" NONE of it is amusing or entertaining. His humor has gotten more and more forced and he's become progressively more petty and selfish. He lashes out like a toddler who doesn't get his way--or in today's case, he just does it because he likes being a spiteful jackass. I'm sick of it.
Except for his heel-turn during Tirek's attack, there's been no development in his character. He lies and manipulates and enjoys doing it. He doesn't cause the Mane Six to grow or develop, he's not Q on Star Trek TNG. And as for his own growth? It'd be like the Boy Who Cried Wolf learning that the moral was "Never Tell the Same Lie Twice," and instead of lying about a wolf, making up some other new trick to play on the village. So he lies and manipulates about something--gets some minor bit of comeuppance--and then in the next episode finds something new to lie and manipulate about.
So while I love Discord as much as anyone else in the fandom---I'm now sick of him. I don't want to see him anymore if this is how they're going to write for him.
For me, my break point with the episode was earlier. Every single story was a noodle incident and the 'comedy' fell completely flat.
This episode is worse in every way than MMDW. Mare do well was an entertaining episode with a very questionable moral. This is an unfunny, un-entertaining episode with a pretty sick ending. This is maybe my worst episode, if it dodges that it is because I was never invested, it falls into a hole with episodes like Princess Spike (same writer by the way) because it was boring.
Season 5 remains one of the strongest to date, but when it stinks it really stinks.
3530721
Suffice to say, I don't agree about MDW--there really wasn't anything amusing in the crapcapade for me, but yes I agree in substance with your remarks about this episode. Worst of all--this episode made me question the wisdom of keeping Discord around. That takes TALENT to be THAT bad.
But think about it: he's been getting less and less funny--"Three's Company" I thought was pretty mediocre, to be honest though Discord had his moments. "Make New Friends But Keep Discord" had some good humor, but the plot and moral were lame. And now with this ... he's been getting less funny and it makes increasingly less sense that anyone--even Fluttershy--would be friends with him. Every episode he's in ends with him getting some minor comeuppance and that's supposed to make everything even out so they could all laugh and be friends again. It's contrived writing that forces a resolution that does not flow naturally from the events we transpired. So really, it makes no sense to stay friends with him. It's making me wonder if redeeming him in "Keep Calm and Flutter On" was even a good idea in the first place.
3530770
Regarding MMDW: I grew up with Darkwing and Batman: the Animated Series. The references alone in the visuals and music entertained me. The story stunk, the characterization stunk, the moral was atrocious, but some tiny part entertained me. It has that one, tiny redeeming quality to me. It doesn't save the episode, but I don't completely check out.
MMDW has been the bottom of my list for quite some time, trading places with the Iron Will ep, but Princess Spike and What About Discord are trying to dethrone them.
Regarding Discord: I really wish they would save Discord for the epic episodes and try and retain some character development between eps. The only post reform episode I really liked was Twilight's Kingdom, I think it made good use of the character and if it had been realized had some nice character growth. And then this episode says that his lesson there and in Three's a Crowd means nothing. He doesn't learn...
...I just realized... he is the new Fluttershy. Just like how early Fluttershy would reset to her default personality and never learn any of the lessons she 'learned', Discord is trapped in the status-quo. They don't let him learn, they don't let him grow. Holy magicarp Batman! He is the useless friend that everyone questions why they even keep him around!
You changed my mind. This goes to the bottom of the list. NO questions asked. Because now every future Discord ep has to answer that question "Why is he here again?"
3530788
As much as I'm usually happy to see that affected someone's thinking--I almost wish I hadn't. But it's true! Except for "Twilight's Kingdom" and maybe, MAYBE "Princess Twilight," we haven't seen any logical reason that would lead the Mane Six to want to remain friends with Discord after all his crap. It's getting less funny, less entertaining and less believable. If the writers have made it so that Discord--voiced by John DeLancie!--is wearing out his welcome, it's a clear sign THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.
while I also disliked the episode I don't think that is really true. That's kind of like what happened in 'Three's a crowd' and that's one of my favorite episodes. However there Discord was funny and Cadance was also awkward around Discord and supportive of Twilight. Also Discord was more disruptive rather than destructive. Not to mention that I love Cadance and want to see her again, also that song of Discord was awesome.
Here Discord seemed fairly malicious and sometimes even cruel. Also their friends have no support for Twilight and the jokes are more confusing than funny.
3528786
I disagree with that. Things that we see as 'crap' may be the exact things others like.
3528771
you shouldn't go too far with that.
MLP always has had a fairly lose structure.
3543766
I was mostly saying that writers should respect their audience and not talk down to them, regardless of actual content in the shows. Shows shouldn't insult their viewers, imo.
3543950
it can't 'insult' their viewers.
3543962
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point, then. Sorry.
3543993
it's just that children and especially teenagers can love the exact things that adults hate.
3530770
MMDW is by some considered to be a great episode.
I hate it because of how insensitive and cruel the mane 6 were towards Rainbow Dash.
I think they just pushed it WAY too far. I really hate the arrogance of the mane 6 at the end.