Rarity's Emotional Growth in Terms of Her Romantic Aspirations · 7:39pm Mar 26th, 2015
>>4208504
pointed out regarding Rarity and Blueblood
Rarity didn't give a crap about who he was as a pony. She just wanted him for status and money. It wasn't even hidden. Her ambitions were as obvious as a black sheep in the snow. Now consider the following: this most likely happens to him on a daily basis. He's probably sick and tired of the shit; therefore, he treated Rarity like shit to get away from her as soon as possible.
Indeed.
To be precise, Rarity knows that her greatest talent is social manipulation, and she's in some ways a very conventional mare, so her basic plan was "I will use my talent to make a Prince fall in love with and marry me and we will be happy because he will be good and charming and I will be loving toward him and we will live happily ever after because that's how it works in the fairy tales. And she didn't stop to think that (1) any Prince with enough brain cells to keep Rarity's interest would be well aware of and used to attempts to manipulate him into marriage or at least protectorship by ambitious common mares, and (2) just because Rarity wanted Blueblood to be her perfect Prince Charming says nothing about his true character -- Blueblood is who he is independent of Rarity's desires.
Why did Rarity overlook this? Because Season One Rarity is young and naive. In my fanon she's only 18 at the time of Luna's Return, and while she's the most romantically-active of any of the Mane Six (she's actually had some sexual experience, and is the only one of them willing to get even slightly sexual with somepony she doesn't love), she's not very romantically-experienced. And her knowledge of the Canterlot upper classes -- the Court set -- comes purely from newspaper reports, popular magazines, and books.
She viewed her life in fairy-tale terms, and actually getting the chance to go to the Gala and meet Blueblood was her first experience of true upper-class Society and in particular of male royalty. Her first real experience of the upper classes in general had confirmed her fairy-tale view of life -- she met Twilight Sparkle, an upper-class young mare and personal student of Princess Celestia's, and within a day participated in a successful quest to save the land from ancient evil and free a Princess from a curse -- what's more fairy-tale than that? In "The Best Night Ever" -- the Season One closer -- she learns that not everything involving royalty has to follow the lines of a fairy tale.
Season One Rarity makes other mistakes, all because she either assumes that fairy-tale logic applies to reality, or in some cases because she follows the "script" of over-reaching that gets characters into trouble in actual fairy-tales. In S1E07 "Dragonshy," she almost has the Dragon convinced to wake up and leave the mountain, then spoils it by trying to steal some of his hoard; it's only because the Dragon was merciful that this didn't get her killed. In S1E16 "Sonic Rainboom," she gets so carried away with the (temporary and fragile) wings Twilight gave her so that they could see Rainbow Dash compete at the Best Young Flyers' event that she tries to upstage the actual Pegasi -- again, she nearly gets herself and several Wonderbolts killed in consequence (note: she had been transformed into the semblance of an Alicorn).
Right after the disappointment of Blueblood, Rarity is Discorded; her obsession with Tom the Boulder is a parody of both her materialism and her tendency to fall in love with Ponies whom she doesn't actually know and to whom she assigns imaginary attributes. It's probably no accident that the episodes after that -- the whole first quarter of Season Two -- are basically about the Mane Six and the Cutie Mark Crusaders having what amount to mild nervous breakdowns. Rarity in particular is forced to recognize what's really important to her in S2E06 "Sisterhooves Social," and in S2E09 "Sweet and Elite" ultimately chooses her real friends over the hangers-on she's acquired due to Fancy Pants' influence -- and discovers to her surprise that Fancy Pants really is her friend, and that the Mane Six have more status than she imagined.
Right after that comes S2E10 "Secret of My Excess," when she is faced with the truth that Spike doesn't just have a Precocious Crush on her, but actually and genuinely loves her ... and that she loves him back, even though given his age she can't express this love sexually. This is probably a surprise to her. By fairy-tale logic, Spike is just the monstrous minion of her friend the Good Magician, and the heroine's not supposed to fall in love with that particular character -- he's at best supposed to be Comedy Relief. However it works out when Spike is older, Rarity has learned that they really do care for one another, and that one can't apply fairy-tale logic to reality and expect this to work out well.
After this, Rarity's romantic behavior becomes a lot more realistic. Yes, she's still Rarity, she still plays her life as melodrama, and she still hopes to marry somepony rich and handsome and good and charming with whom she can have a good life (which is hardly a foolish objective). But she now understands that people are themselves rather than merely the objects of her fantasies. She learns that she is clever and strong and capable, and that she can succeed in her own right both as a heroine and as a businessmare, irregardless of whether or not she makes a fairy-tale match.
Contrast her behavior toward Trenderhoof in S4E13 "Simple Ways." While she didn't know Trenderhoof personally any more than she did Blueblood, she had clearly studied him more extensively, and what's more had good reason to believe that Trenderhoof might be a kindred spirit -- they both have similar careers, intelligence and interests. Trenderhoof actually was coming to like her, until he saw and became obsessed by Applejack (behavior analogous to that of Season One Rarity, in that he couldn't see the real Applejack for his fantasy-image of her). Her fundamental goal -- love leading to marriage -- was the same, but she had picked a more plausible match.
It didn't work. But her reasons for choosing Trenderhoof were less silly and superficial than her reasons for choosing Blueblood. Rarity -- who by my chronology was 22 at the time -- had become more mature and realistic.
I do not know what she's decided by the end of Season Four. Spike's still too young for her, yet there is a distinct tendency in the later Season Four episodes for her to behave in an increasingly friendly, protective and physically-affectionate fashion toward him. This tendency accelerates sharply in S4E23 "Inspiration Manifestation," and there are scenes in "Equestria Games" and Twilight's Kingdom where she's pretty much as all over him, in public, as is possible within the intersection of Rarity's morals and what the show can display on children's television.
My personal belief is that she's falling in love with him, though I don't see how this story arc can possibly be allowed to complete itself given our own social prejudices and expectations. I outlined Rarity's likely emotions, including both her desires and her misgivings, in "Rarity's Reverie," which is Chapter 17 of Divine Jealousy and the Voice of Reason. I urge anyone interested in the topic to read at least this chapter.
Dude, you make me feel intelligent for shipping Sparity.
BTW, this needs to happen:
derpicdn.net/img/2015/3/26/857295/large.jpg
Some of the younger members may not know this reference, but I'm sure you do.
Here's to you, Mrs.Rarity...
2913386
"Why, Rarity, are you trying to seduce me?"
2913438 I've got this image in my head of Sweetie belle in a church, about to wed to Button Mash, only to turn around and see Spike:
"BenSPIKE!!!!
2913452
I had the same idea!
2913471 i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/326892/slide_326892_3152648_free.gif
Yeah, we're way too ahead of the curve.
Insightful.
A fascinating analysis of Rarity's thought process, especially the narrative view of reality. It's not entirely inaccurate given the world she lives in, but Rarity has the genre wrong, and misapplied genre savviness is worse than none at all. But she learns. Once she recognizes that those around her are more than scenery to chew and love interests to woo, she becomes much more than any fairy-tale princess could.
That being said...
Really, Jordan? Really?
2913524
Oh, I don't mean that it isn't still one of her goals. It's just that it's no longer as essential to her -- she's not defining herself any more solely in terms of being able to make a fairy-tale marriage.
Besides being a very intelligent analysis, that's probably the first intelligent defense of Sparity that I've heard. Very interesting.
2913985
Hmm -- it seems to me that -- despite the protestations of the writers -- the show has been lampshading Spike's attraction to Rarity since the Season One / Series Opener, and implying that Rarity is increasingly returning it since "Secret of My Excess," more than half the series back from where we are now.
There are two obvious reasons why they aren't going to consummate their love now (if ever). The first is internal, and this is that Spike's a lot younger than Rarity, and while she doesn't see him as being a "baby" any more, she does see him as being a child. Rarity has morals, and even though a sexual relationship with him at his age in my fanon (14) would be (just barely) legal given the local age of consent, Rarity doesn't feel entirely comfortable with the notion. The second is external, and has to do with our current extreme sensitivity to even a hint of pedophilia (America's age of consent, which is 16-18 in most places, is very high by most historical standards) -- no way would the show dare to go that route, and I'm astonished how far they've taken it already.
Does this mean that carnal love between them is impossible? No, because youth is an illness always cured by the passage of time. As time passes, their age difference will become relatively less important. The main question is whether or not the definitely lusty and marriage-minded Rarity will fall in love with somepony else while Spike is still too young for her.
That's hardly impossible. While it's difficult to see Spike and Rarity coming to hate one another, even if she marries somepony else (their friendship is very strong, and both are very good beings), it's easy to see Rarity marrying somepony else. Had Trenderhoof not become obsessed with Applejack, he might well have fallen for Rarity, and Rarity was certainly very close to falling in love with him.
Could this have led to marriage? Certainly. Rarity is sophisticated and romantically-daring by the standards of Ponyville, but compared to the members of any Fast Set (even Ponyville's) she's quite conventional. And she's definitely lusty. The combination would make it very likely that if she got seriously involved with anypony, it would lead to marriage. And Rarity is canonically considered both clever and beautiful, highly-desirable as a wife based on her own personal qualities. She is also the sort of Pony whom a stallion would like better the better he knew her, because she is genuinely nice and caring.
This leads to the obvious question of whom Spike would marry if not Rarity. There are various possible answers to that, ranging from another member of the Mane Six (Fluttershy, notably, sometimes turns to him for emotional comfort, and Rainbow Dash seems to like him as a friend) to one of the younger inhabitants of Ponyville (he's friendly with the CMC, especially Sweetie Belle) to somepony he hasn't yet met. He might also ultimately fall for a dragoness -- though note that culturally he's much more compatible with a Pony mare than with any member of his birth species. Who knows? He might even renew his acquaintance with Moon Dancer, who might regard him with different eyes when he's matured a bit (though the chances are high that she'll have married someone else by that time).
I ship Spike with Rarity, and I think they'd make a very compatible couple in many ways both obvious and subtle, but I have problems with the whole notion of a OTP -- I think that most of the major characters could be happy with more than one possible mate.
2914813 Huh; interesting points. I have always found our late age of consent a bit odd, but given the fact that Western culture generally has people go to school longer and wait until later to have a job, people generally mature much slower, and so the later age of consent is probably necessary.
There's also that dragon chick he met in the comics, Mina. And of course it's always possible, if unlikely, that Spike could ultimately decide to live alone.
In my mind, the best arguments against Spike/Rarity are story-external. You've brought up the biggest one - Spike's age, and how it's presented - but another factor is feminism's extreme sensitivity to anything resembling male romantic entitlement. Spike's having a crush on Rarity, even Spike's falling in True Love to Rarity, does not entitle him to have her return it. Nor should the show present such entitlement as justified.
Now that in itself is quite true. And we faithful viewers can easily see that Spike is not entitled to have his feelings returned, and (absent when he literally went insane with greed) he doesn't feel that way. If Rarity returns his feelings now, that's her free choice, and it's perfectly fine. Unfortunately, the media watchdogs won't necessarily see it that way. They'll probably seize on points just like you made here and accuse the show of hinting towards it across seasons and of presenting Spike's feelings as automatically leading to reciprocation.
And, there's some real value in showing a longlasting crush that does not get returned. When I first encountered the show and heard that Spike maintains his crush but Rarity never returns it, I thought it was a good choice to break from the conventional narrative while maintaining the characters as friends. It can be awkward (as in real life!) and lead to substantial character growth (in real life too!). Sure, a Sparity romance might be just as innovative, and I wouldn't put it past the writers. But the choice they're making is a good one.
2917342
The problem with that theory is that the writers seem to be celebrate-womanhood rather than despise-manhood feminists, and the notion that "nice guys" shouldn't get the girl because all male "niceness" is supposedly false and indicative of entitlement isn't all that popular outside of small and bitterly anti-male circles. Plus, Spike doesn't act at all as if he feels entitled to Rarity; he acts as if he hopes to win her through proof of his friendship, loyalty and masculine virtues. (In short, he's a Courtly Lover).
Compared to that external reason, the external prejudice against love between persons of different ages in our society is much stronger -- possibly so strong that many fans and Moral Guardians would feel offended even if Rarity and Spike wound up getting together at some point 5-10 years in the show's future (possibly mentioned in a flash-forward), when Spike was no longer underaged by American standards. Also, TV generally doesn't do character development very well, especially any development that would logically take years of time -- it tends to live in an "eternal now."
On the other hand, My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic has surprised me before with its willingness to take risks and develop characters in a realistically-protracted fashion. So it might suprise me in this -- the show might actually have Spike and Rarity married in flash-forward, or something of that sort.
2917420
I never meant to say the writers would agree with that perspective themselves - the hints you point out show that much! But that group exists in the culture, and they may be small, but they're loud.
Though yes, the age reason is much, much bigger. And secondly, given the restrictions of children's television, playing it under the radar like they're doing now lets them tell better stories, at least in my mind.
2917342
The Trenderhoof episode has already done the "a guy falling in love with a girl doesn't obligate her to a damned thing", however. Spike's a much more sympathetic character than Trenderhoof; I run in an intersection set of MLP and feminist circles, and I've never heard anyone bitch about Sparity from a "waah! male entitlement!" perspective. (Mostly the argument against male entitlement is used against people who claim that if Fluttershy considers Discord a friend and not a romantic partner, that she's "friendzoning" him. That's not even an argument that Fluttershy shouldn't consider Discord a romantic partner, it's an argument that if she doesn't, Discord is not going to feel like his friendship with her is pointless and that she's treating him as if he's inferior.)
I think that the story of a teenage boy who's a genuinely good person falling in love with an older woman who he's been friends with for years would overall appeal to feminists, because it's a counter to the incessant older man-younger woman dynamic the culture is always trying to push on us. Yeah, the idea that your crush will always be reciprocated is a bit problematic, but that's why we have stories like the one with Trenderhoof.
2956631
Precisely. Spike loves Rarity, both romantically and as a friend, and he assumes that her love is something only she can choose to give of her own free will, rather than something to be crassly purchased. He means to win her, but he means to win her by showing himself to be her best possible choice, not through making her feel guilty or engaging in emotional trickery. One reason why Rarity is coming to increasingly return his emotions, and may someday actually become his lover or marry him, is that she now knows him well and realizes that he is her true friend, and that they are very much Kindred Spirits.
Some people see Rarity as simply conning Spike with false hopes, implicit promises she never intends to keep. But she has never lied to Spike about her feelings, save perhaps to not entirely let on how much she loves him, because she doesn't want to lead him on. Her problem with Spike is not who he is -- if he were a Pony stallion, she would probably marry him within a year. Her problem with Spike is that he is too young, and not a Pony at all ... and she's getting to the point now where his species is starting to make no difference to her at all; it's becoming purely a matter of his age.