The state of S&R · 4:47am Oct 11th, 2014
Good internet day to you all,
My name is soulpillar. I'm the guy that's been writing the story that you've been reading for the past few months now. Now, I've just done something that has completely slipped my mind to do for quite a while now; actually read my own story. I've read it from front to back, saw what I enjoyed and saw what I didn't. [I've also done some minor edits here and there, nothing major. Yet.]
It went like this; the first few four chapters were sublime. Then Chapter 5 happened. Celestia suddenly turned into an utterly unlikable bitch [which I have since edited because holy crap it didn't come off like I expected it would]. Things picked up for a bit until they came to a head in chapter 7. That was good. Then things got hella dark (so much so that I've taken the liberty of adding the 'dark' tag to the story until further notice). Then I struggled through chapter 10, which was truly awful and I can remember even when writing it that it was like pulling nails. Chapter 11 and 12 were passable, but I take a look at the viewer count and comment numbers and it's become clear to me- I've lost my way.
I've tried to do too much with this story at once and it's suffered terribly for it. Instead of trying to mash all these different ideas together, I should have finished what I wanted to do and then started another story.
Long story short, I need your help.
I want S&R to be good: really good. Now, I don't need you to tell me how to write- I know that. What I want you to tell me is what you liked about this story, and what you didn't like. If you're still here, then I want to reward that. I want to give this premise justice.
before everything else I have to say that I love the latest chapter, The Gareth we got to know at the start is really shining though (a knight & a dragon, & what happens? the knight fast talks & verbally strong arms the dragon into saving a village!)
the previous chapters were a little hard, especially the first pony to die at Gareth's hands but that's not a complaint in the end. I have a hard time sometimes reading through TCB spectrum verse chapters but enjoy the read in the end.
the bit where the bloody maggot somehow lives after being run through with a spear? a liiiiittttttle bit of a stretch & i bet that at least a few of us would like him dead soon.
now your idea of finishing the story & then adding sequels, might I turn your attention to 'The Journey Of Graves"? was that kind of set up what you were thinking of?
If I'm perfectly honest The Sun and the Rose is probably one of the only stories on this website that I consider pretty much faultless. The story chugs along at a reasonable pace and doesn't overwhelm or drag, the characters are well developed and it seems like you really know which direction you want to steer the story itself. Of course being the creator you're bound to find faults in your work: by all means try to better yourself, but make sure you don't psychoanalyze everything too much or it'll drive you loopy. Hopefully my inane drivel helps.
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I really appreciate that, and I'm also aware that I can be a perfectionist. What I wanted to do by reading this story from back to front was to make sure that it read mostly alike. Unforunately there were some parts that, if I were a reader, I would have stopped and thrown the fic out. Now, those parts can be hard to swallow, but they only last for a while before quality picks back up again. This tells me that this wasn't luck that my story has gotten the attention it has (ego boost +1), but it DOES tell me that I make mistakes.
Don't worry, if I were going to do something as drastic as a re-write it would only go back to, say, chapter 8, and then branch off. I'll still wait out for more impressions before I do something of THAT level. Even if I do, I'll make sure to link to a backup side with the non-canon Chapters. They won't disappear.
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Oh, I love the latest chapter too. I've loved the idea of Scute and intertwining Spike (the dragon)'s story with this one. As a whole, Gareth has never meant to really rock the boat historically, but instead to subtly influence it. I wanted to ensure that this fic would fit in to the canon.
If reading Gareth kill a pony was hard, then that's good. That's the exact reaction I was going for. Unfortunately, I think it's dragged too many people out of the experience. I went far darker than I really wanted to.
If I were going to do a sequel they'd be about 40K length books, or perhaps a few one-shots. In anycase, you can guarantee that anything that I'd scrap from the old chapters will make an appearance. Scute's story is definitely going to be told.
I can't say much since I suck at criticising. But I'm sticking around to find out how gareth is gonna adapt with his horselike lover. Must have been hard and also what happened after the kiss .
If anything the story seems to require more along the grounds of the original premise since it seems to have moved away from it (but only because the character is literally in another location far away). Will he get over his issues or will he accept that she is what shes always said she is? Hes managed to get to the point where hes willingly taken a title to the general public but that's it so far and until he gets more comfortable that's all it is, a title.
Though if it helps, it is making Celestia in this story become much more likable since circumstances force her to improve.
i enjoyed the initial "human in equestria cant understand fuck all" but when blueblood switched voices with Gareth, i was a little bit... confused? no, displaced would be a better term. i didnt think it was a very good decision to be honest. and, if i may add, it would be a bit more funny to see Gareth try to speak to the nobles in broken equestrian
I couldn't really think of it until I sat on the idea of flaws, and the only thing I can really offer is that it feels less like it's focusing on Gareth, and more on the OC's that have to deal with him. You began it with his internal conflicts, and his struggle to come to grips with what he's thrown into, and don't get me wrong, some persons would berserk and kill that which they don't understand, but Gareth is a better character than that. You've gotten him to a point where he's driving himself paranoid from all the aspects you're throwing into his way, there's too many monkey wrenches in his gears, and that's where the story flubs.
Remove some of his conflicts, and the whole 'suddenly we're in a different story' frozen North part, and it will be a better slate to begin the tale once more. Gareth is a wonderful exploration into love versus understanding, and you're using him as everyone else who writes HiE does: A foe, killer, focal point for issues, "That Guy". Gareth isn't "That Guy". He's a model of devotion to his religion, to his wife, and to his personal honor in upholding his vows of marriage, and you've let him become the dumpster that attracts the flies, so to speak.
I came into this loving the mystical aspects of a society firmly believing in God coming into contact with Equestria, and with one of their own living on Earth! That was quite the eye-catcher, and I was hooked immediately. I did start to lose interest around the point where Gareth became cold and blander, less devout Christian, more barbaric warrior, and less like the vessel he needed to be. You have amazing potential here, and I'd hate to see it go to waste. Still tell the story of Scute, and Gareth's involvement—after he accomplishes his original mission: Maintain his love for Cecilia, and come to terms with that which he has been thrust into.
Perhaps a side-story or sequel of sorts would be the place for that, after Gareth's been firmly situated in the Equestrian soil and culture, because the feel of the story is entirely different than this one. We're talking Adventure! Dark! Things Happening!
I favorited this fic way back around chapter one or two, when I was pulled in by the sense of mystique and prospects unknown for our hero, Gareth, as he pursued his wife to her real home, and began a journey of acceptance that would strain his devotion to God—and to his wedding vows—in a foreign land.
I'd hate to see such a piece go the direction it is and only accomplish a point of what it really could. I hope this helps somewhat.
Hmm... soulpillar, you say you are lost? Does that make you... a lost soul? *ba dum tsh*
Alright, jokes aside the main thing that I liked about this story would be well... how realistically you portrayed Celestia seeing as how she herself wiped her own memories apparently and lived in the human world where Gareth was.
The personality that you had Celestia portray is much akin to a mere mortal instead of someone who had lived for a thousand years and lived off of that experience. This brought Celestia down to a position where she is essentially flawed, unsure of herself and the possible consequences that she would have to face after being absent from her rule and she knows that.
They say that it's not just merely the memories you make that make you who you are but also the memories that you lose. Though that could just be me being in a position where I've read one too many 'Celestia is all-knowing yada yada yada' kind of stories.
Gareths' reactions are also quite refreshing as he acts how normally one who was from that day and age would act, especially his relationship. Though personally, I think Gareth is just a little too much of a brooder and keeps lamenting what has happened before where he would have... I would say went on a bloody rampage but not really. Though that can be attributed as one of his character flaws and his way to hopefully either adapt or overcome it entirely.
Hope what gibberish I said managed to make sense
I was fine with most of it till Gareth has his mental breakdown and became a rampaging murderer. At that point it felt like that story was coming apart and I decided to leave it alone for a while until a few more chapters came out.
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Gareth is definitely a brooder, but that's more out of perceived helplessness and uncertainty than anything. He's changed a lot from the person that he used to be and he's paralyzed with fear that he might be letting Celestia down.
Don't worry, the point of the story is that he gets over that. Just like Celestia slowly becomes the mare that we know and love.
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And I agree with all of this. One of my key points going into this story was that Gareth was meant to be a reconstruction of this. Yes, there are huge flaws with everyone involved (Gareth, Celestia, Equestria, everyone) but the point is that they can still move past it. I've been too hard on Gareth and chances are, I've jumped the shark by moving away without resolving things.
Anyway, here's my plan.
I'm going to roll back to Chapter 8. For those that don't remember, that's when Styre and Gleaming were kidnapped. Chapters 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 are going to be uploaded to my Google Docs where people can still see them. They'll be non-canon of course but I'm not exactly getting rid of them.
For me, the turning point was when things went from 'Gareth & Celestia are both lost and coming to terms with Equestria' to 'Conspiracy abounds (Beyond 'some ponies are just jerks') and Gareth has a murderous beast in him' which just...turned the story abruptly in a different direction. We went from this interesting tale of acclimation and bewilderment to mass political intrigue & violence and that took away the core of what made things interesting, which was the Gareth-Celestia relationship with each other and Equestria at large.
Now they're separated and have been for some time and I'm really reading out of dogged determination because I simply don't care about the dragon and the abduction and so on. I'm waiting for it to find its way again
Although I've never written any fiction (beyond what was required at school that is), I can relate to what you're going through. As a programmer, I often have to revisit some of my earlier work to add new functions or change something by request. Whenever I do, I can't help but feel that my old code could be better if I reworked it a bit. Although I sometimes do rework stuff, I only do it if there is a clear gain to justify the effort. It might feel wrong not to work on something until it's as good as I can make it, but at some point it's best to say "good enough is good enough".
It's great you've taken the time to read your own work, just be careful not to be too self-critical. It's way too easy to only see the flaws and overlook the qualities when evaluating your own work.
2526988 This is 100% my thoughts, I was commenting becuase i liked the Humanx celestia story, I liked the idea of prince consort, the struggle between the woman G loved and the reality of what she is.
This was what drew me to the story, not hte murderous gareth, not hte conspiracy, I wanted human x pony stuf, in a medieval settingish. a bit of conspiracy with maybe trying to find a "more sutiable consort" would have been cool, or maybe even a quest to turn gareth into a pony
but not what it has become
not the murderous beast, because gaerth was jsut a bowman,..not a front liner monster. he was a animal care taker ..he should feel at hope healing and tending to animals not murdering them. and certianly i would nixthe whole dragon bit., that is jumping hte shark tank.
however..even after all of this.,. I still have faith in your writing. you just had a difficult time and lost your way
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Pardon me, rant incoming.
You CANNOT do a Celestia x ANYONE justice without politics. To attempt it is absurd. Celestia is the ruler of a nation, that's her shtick. She has been the princess of Equestria for most of her life, and this is only 400 years into her reign.
That's something that peeves me off that people want a straight up romance, it can't be done, and I'm not going to attempt it. However, what I AM going to do is make sure that these politics don't override the story. Much like I'm not going to let Gareth's personality flaws override the story.
So, watch this space. I'm going to be trying something soon.
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I'm not saying 'Don't touch politics' (Although you can, depending on how you approach the romance aspect, sidestep that part entirely). I'm saying 'This specific execution of it is clumsy and overrides the story itself, and I found it unengaging and uninteresting'
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And hey, that's totally cool mate. I admit myself that it was clumsy, but that's why I'm doing a rewrite. I'm half-way through writing it and it's shaping up well. I'll just be using the elements that I've already introduced to make something... well, less crap.
To a writer there's a world of difference between 'you're doing it wrong' and 'you can't do this'. We can deal with the first one, we're a naturally self-flagellating bunch.
So yeah, politics will still be a thing, but it'll be something that'll do more to actually serve the romance.
That said, chapter 8 is now looking to be something remarkably more, erm, action-heroy. Hopefully it'll be far more enjoyable.
The relationship between Gareth and Celestia was the best part of the story. Congratulations on actually using the "I can't have a relationship with a horse" thing in a way that actually has sum meaning. The story suffers every chapter they are apart, but well there apart now, and unless you rewrite the story there going to stay apart for a good long while to come.
Gareth's interactions with the regular ponies is also interesting. His distiaction has a medieval knight really comes through in every chapter, and its very fascinating. He has more trouble in Equestia then a modern person likely would, but its touching to see him try regardless.
Now the bad, Celestia ever since Gareth diapered. Her behavior is simply OOC if you ask me. I have found none of it enjoyable, and everything she's involved with is gest meant to pile more mysteries and drama onto a plot that's already overflowing with them. Not to mention it seams to directly counter what was already state in the story.
The hole revolution has been the worst by fare. It has dramatically changed the tone and direction of the story, but so fare hasn't given us anything in return. The dragoness, and sum action form Gareth has been the only enjoyable parts since then, but it doesn't make up for all that was lost in doing so. When it started I thought it'd last a couple chapters then Celestia and Gareth would have a nether set of problems to face together, man was I ever wrong. The revolutionists haven't even been given a goal or reason for us to try and come to terms with there actions.
The chose is yours, but I have found the story fare less enjoyable ever since the revolution.
hehe wrote this without reading the comments