Story recommendation: Biblical Monsters by Horse Voice · 6:52pm Mar 10th, 2013
Biblical Monsters by Horse Voice. Dark, sad, tragic, compassionate, and so very well-written. I'm sending this to people who favorited "Twenty Minutes", if that feature works anymore, which should tell you something. It is sad, but not a dreadful so-far-pointless nightmare-inducing sad like the first chapter of “The Heart Thief”, which I regret reading. I left a comment on the story giving my opinion, which you probably should not read because it reveals my evil nature.
You should read this story if you can handle something sad right now.
Adams did not answer. He was looking at a shiny spot on the table. I wondered what he was thinking about. Would he have an answer?
I realized then that the spot had not been there a moment ago. I saw dust particles move through an angled shaft of space that stretched from the table to the window, and realized that spot was where the sun reflected off the table's finish.
I looked out the window. In the sky above, there was a gap in the slate, through which I saw a shade of blue that had not appeared above Cook Point in almost a month. It was tiny, but it would grow.
The year's halcyon days had come.
Out of context, this sounds slow, even boring. Within the story, it’s a whispered scream. This is the turning point where our protagonist realizes he’s doomed, that there is no happy ending to this story, that someone in the house is a monster and it might be him. This is how to write.
The story's title has a double-meaning, and a lot of commentators got worked up over whether it's unfair to religion. But the story isn't about religious zealots. The decisions our protagonists make are ultimately not based on religion; merely prodded and colored by it. HV could have written it without using a religious zealot. Maybe it would have been better without religion. Maybe not. Depends whether you think the story is about the failings of humans, in which case over-zealous religion is a way of highlighting that; or the "failings" of reality, in which case it's a distraction.
The comments below are spoiler-filled.
Actually, I am not sure I can right now. But I will put it in my read later list.
Sorry I introduced the two of you, then. Like, really actually sorry. I'm not a fan of causing unnecessary distress.
906145 It's okay. I learned things from it, and found another good author. I would like to be able to forget the ending. It's a little bit much for my delicate nerves.
I have this story on "read later", thanks for the heads up that it's complete.
Now to commence reading the latest chapter "Of course", but "biblical monsters" is next.
I'd been wondering about that one. Just read it on your recommendation, and while I can't say that I liked the ending that doesn't mean it wasn't good.
Edit: Not that I necessarily think it was a good ending, it's been a few hours now and I can't quite decide. I went into it expecting a terrible end for Twilight given BH's blog post here, but I can understand anger from those who weren't expecting it.
Oh, Christ. I've been fighting off haters since last Thursday, (really) and you send more people my way? Are you trying to kill me, man?
Just kidding. Thanks for the endorsement. I could really use the moral support -- and the credibility -- right now.
The passage you quote was really difficult to write. Every word had to be perfect, and paint a specific picture in the readers' minds. I'm glad I succeeded.
Part of me regrets writing it. This ordeal taught me things about myself, and about human nature, but it's almost been more trouble than it's worth. Overnight, I've gone from having zero haters, to being unable to count all my haters. Have you ever had this problem, BH?
I've already read it, and aside from it being a re-tread of a Twilight Zone episode, (or possibly a couple of TZ episodes) it has one gigantic flaw: It was revolting. Physically revolting. You may subscribe to the view that art is worthwhile despite being extremely unpleasant, but I read fiction for pleasure. I can turn to the news if I want to witness acts of unbearable cruelty. The fact that the story was incredibly well-written is, for me, an even worse flaw. A poorly executed, pointless gore-fic can be dismissed with an eye-roll, this little bit of mind-poison cannot.
If this is the sort of story you might lead me into, unknowingly, am I never going to take a fic recommendation from you alone!
906258 Some people hate some of my stories, but I don't think they stick around to hate me. They stop reading my stories, which is better for everybody.
906292
I've never seen those episodes you mention. The similarity was accidental. As Solomon said, there is nothing new under the sun.
You think you had it bad? To write this, I had to reach into the darkest part of myself, and express the horrors I found there. It was not pleasant, but I learned something about myself, and my relationship with the universe. I wanted to show people my pain, and see if they understood. Most of the tragedies in my life happened without warning. I didn't think people would fully understand, if they were prepared for tragedy.
You see, the narrator wasn't me. Twilight was me. I've only just realized that.
Bad Horse, I respect your opinion on this sort of thing very highly, and Horse Voice, you sound like a clever guy...but...I'm not going to read that story. Sorry. I can't. Reading Twenty Minutes is something I'm still recovering from, more than six months later. I'll keep an eye out should you decide to write a story that won't cause me hurt, I suspect it'll be worth the wait. If you've impressed Bad Horse you must be a fine writer indeed.
Wow, so from reading the comments on the story, it didn't even have a tragedy tag until the last chapter was posted? Seriously not cool.
906168
It's interesting that you reacted so differently to Heart Thief and Biblical Monsters, because I think they're both exemplars of the exact same type of writing: what Horse Voice called a "scorpion story … a grotesque thing with a stinger at the end."
On the surface level, (WARNING: MAJOR MAJOR SPOILERS FOR BOTH STORIES!!!) Fluttershy cutting off Steady's tongue is basically indistinguishable from graphically describing Twilight Sparkle's murder. Out of context, they're equally gruesome, equally senseless, and equally a horrific swing from the preceding mild narrative. I don't see any reason to respond differently to them as mere depictions of revolting events.
The core difference is that 906258 used the stinger to make a point about human nature and the nature of conflict, and Heart Thief used it to … hmm. I dunno. Make a point about its world? Shock? (Not that there's anything wrong with those.) What I do know is that because of their different contexts, Biblical Monsters is a tragedy, and Heart Thief is a horror story.
So I think that what we're saying here is that if we're going to read about something revolting, that we want it to be justified, that we want to take something from the experience that rewards or improves us for having touched the filth. (I suspect 906292 is on one far end of that scale: the threshold for justification is so high there's no point to reading them in the first place.) It's a topic I've recently struggled with myself, having stopped reading Eyes Without A Face 13 chapters in due to passing my bleakness threshold.
What's been most fascinating to me is seeing exactly where people's thresholds are, because for the life of me I can't map it to anything rational. For me, Heart Thief's gruesome scene wasn't half as wrenching as Biblical Monsters', because I read it at a level of detachment I couldn't muster from BM.
(BTW, Horse Voice, re my latest comment on BM — which I'm reluctant to respond to any further there, because holy shit the drama levels at that story are like unto Youtube comments — I didn't realize that myself until just now. I hadn't seen anything quite as toxic as your two detractors on page 8 until I nipped back over due to Bad Horse's post.)
Hey! This story finished! I guess I just forgot to fav it
I've read it already and didn't care for it...or rather I should say that it was fascinating until the narrator snapped rather suddenly and I couldn't quite get back into the flow of the thing. Once that happened, the rest of the story lacked impact and was slightly distasteful. As a side note, I read it only after it had been completed, so I knew it was a tragedy going in, unlike many readers. Still, it was very well written and it's too bad that the comments over there have gotten so vitriolic.
906649
I didn't even realize it was a tragedy until someone pointed it out. It's amazing how wrong an artist can be about his own work.
906662
I wish I could add to this, but I'd say that's it in a nutshell.
906729
I think part of the problem was, I was so horrified by what I had written, I kicked it out the door as soon as possible, so I wouldn't have to wallow in it. Well, it was therapeutic.
906740 Ahh, that's less not cool then. I was assuming you didn't add it before so as to not spoil the ending or so you could surprise your readers, I've seen authors do that before and it's a bit of a pet peave of mine.
My apologies.
906258 I just read the EqD thread. If you respond to haters the high-handed way you did, yes, they might stick around to hate you. You're a writer, skilled at choosing words in a way that will have the impact you want to have on your readers. You failed dramatically to do that in your responses to your less-polite critics. If you're Harlan Ellison, and thrive on hatred, you can build a career on that. (Harlan is both the most-obnoxious and, judging from his arm candy, the most-sexy science fiction writer, so maybe that's a good strategy.) Otherwise...
906761
Weeeell, it might have been a bit of that too. I promise I'll try not to do it again.
906781
You're right, of course. It's a great temptation to respond to haters the way one responds to trolls: by counter-trolling. But now that I think about it, they really aren't the same thing. I've never dealt with haters before, and my patience had worn thin by the time I wrote that stuff. I'll make a point of not doing that anymore.
906525
I'm with Solomon: I'm sure the Twilight Zone episodes were borrowing from earlier pulp science fiction stories, anyway.
I surely can't fault your dedication, nor your craftsmanship. I, too, identified with Twilight... and as a consequence, felt like microwaved shit after reading the story. I've been a much less happy person since, and if I could erase it from my memory, I would. As Bad Horse points out, you've got a considerable amount of talent... but you used it for EVIL!!! I'm kidding about that of course, but it really did impact me in several very negative ways... which a poorly-written version of exactly the same story would not have been able to do, I should note.
But then, I'm coming from a set of experiences that leaves me utterly without the need to have the negative side of human nature illuminated for me. Rather, I'm in need of the antidote. So forgive me if I have over-reacted to your work.
906662
I think the difference between the two stories is that BM, is much better written. You say that Twilight's murder was very graphic... but it isn't really... it's just that it's utterly believable. That's why I had such a negative reaction... I felt it like I was knifed in the gut.
906811 906292 There's a difference between BM and that Twilight Zone story (which is based on an earlier short story). In the TZ story, the mob acts out of fear and panics, and it's easier to point fingers afterwards and say, "Lo, what fools these mortals be!" It's a cheap morality lesson making the obvious point that you shouldn't panic and kill strangers. In BM, the humans have reasons for killing Twilight, and they don't panic--they're forced to decide, right now, what to do. They'd rather wait and learn more, but time's up and they have to act now or never. They are aware of what they're doing, and the prayer that Adams says afterwards shows that they're as horrified by it as you are.
The story characters didn't know anything about Celestia or Equestria. I don't think I would have done what they did, but I can see what HV was trying to do. I'm always sympathetic to the author. Maybe he should have put another chapter in there, to let them get to know Twilight better (as Aquillo suggested) but also to increase the level of misunderstanding. She could have expressed surprise that males were being trusted with important work; she could have acted more patronizing; she could have expressed horror at what she found in the history books; she could have expressed horror at finding out that humans eat cows.
907263
Well... I have to say that, for me, if you boil it down to a choice between the cold-blooded murder of an intelligent, seemingly well-meaning representative of an alien race and the colonization of Earth by that race*, I would resign myself to being a colonial. But that's just me. I know very well that murderous violence is the default option for many, if not most people, even in matters so relatively unimportant as which sports team one supports. So, for me, it _is_ perfectly clear that they made the wrong choice.
It's not that I am a pacifist or incapable of violence. There are many situations in which I would unhesitatingly and effectively take a human life, and most of those situations would call for a split-second decision to do so. But I will never be convinced that the actions of the two men in this story were justified or moral, even given their limited understanding (or misunderstanding) of the situation.
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*Too simplistic by half, but, hey, we're talking hypothetically here.
907438 I don't want to stir up a religious controversy here, but I have to add that the final prayer, while perfectly illuminating Adams's state of mind, was one of the most revolting aspects of the story. Seriously... I felt physically ill.
I can see how that could be taken nearly the opposite way, as hypocritical.
907468
It wasn't intended that way: Deleted.
907095
I think I see the problem. We have opposite ideas about escapism. I read and write about horrible things, so the real world looks better by comparison. I write about death to remind people to appreciate their lives while they last, because they never know how long they've got. And I find it's more effective to acknowledge the bad things -- even in fiction -- than to escape from them. Even if you can't defeat them, you can learn to accept them. Because if you don't, they'll still be there, and capable of hurting you, when you come back from the escape.
(On a less philosophical note, "accepting" is what I'll have to do about haters from now on, since I've promised not to troll them.)
But I'm wondering: if you want to escape from bad things, why read a Dark-tagged story with religious motifs everywhere? This isn't a rhetorical question; I really am curious.
906258
I read the story last night:
And while the fan in me was crying, "Nooo!" the writer in me was saying, "Damn fine story." And by "damn fine," I mean change the names and enough of the details of the pony world so there's nothing specifically Hasbro-owned left in the story and send it out to the SF magazines. You'd have to check each magazine's guidelines to see if they would consider the story's appearance here as "first publication" or not, but, well, Kij Johnson's story "Ponies" won the Nebula Award two years ago. I definitely think you could get "Biblical Monsters" published with a few tweaks here and there--
Though I also think I can get my original stories published, and I only turn out to be right on that about 10% of the time...
Mike
907763
Actually, that's a very good question. I don't avoid "dark" stories automatically, and I actually enjoy quite a lot of them, because "dark" covers quite a lot of ground.* The thing about BM that hooked me was the lack of the "tragedy" tag when it was first posted, combined with really good writing right from the start.
I suppose what it comes down to is not caring so much what evils the characters go through (within limits) as long as they triumph in the end (within limits). So, the combination "dark" + "adventure" will always get a look from me, where "dark" + "tragedy" is an automatic avoid because of the outcome implied by those parings of tags. Even bittersweet or sad ends are fine by me, if I feel the characters have somehow grown from their experiences. For instance, I really enjoyed Mortality Report and Fluttershy's Night Out but did not even look at The Corpse Bride or Burning Man Brony.
And, of course, the are exceptions to every rule, particularly ones I make for myself. I truly enjoyed Fallout: Equestria even though just about any (accurate) descriptive term you could apply to it would be an indicator that I would heartily dislike it. I still can't put my finger on exactly why it hooked me.
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* Hell, I even wrote a "dark" fic! Though to be fair, what I consider dark and what Horse Voice considers dark is furlongs apart.
910678
Hrm, I see. It can be a fine line. But there can also be a fine line between a tragedy and a psychological horror story. I just didn't fully realize this fact until it was too late. Lesson learned, I suppose.
Well, I'll give your words some thought. Maybe next time I'll do better.
910756
Dude! I'm just a jerk on the internet with an opinion! So you've got some people who really, really, don't like your story*... so what? It seems you've got many, many more who love it. You got a ton of traffic and generated one hell of a controversy. Kinda cool, actually. Write more.
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* Yeah, including me, but why should you care that I got tweaked by it? If I (justifiably) said your writing was bad, that'd be a different thing, but I can't honestly complain about that.
910828
Well, thank you. But I want to horrify people, not hurt them. In case I decide to write another story of this caliber, I want to figure out where the line is, and make a good decision on whether to cross it.
906662
See, now I think there's something different with my head because I don't have that. The need for the horror to be justified or for the reader "to take something from the experience that rewards or improves us for having touched the filth", I mean. In truth, I actually enjoy the filth for its... filthiness, I guess: the skill shown in evoking those emotions and in constructing the scene.
Or, in other words, much as I wouldn't go into a comedy or adventure expecting the author to present a moral crux to improve me, I don't really feel the need for it with dark -- or the grimdark which people seem to think Biblical Monsters is. That's not to say that I don't respect the other position, but more to say that I don't really understand it natively.
As a related detail, I also find myself agreeing with the action the humans took and wishing that, should a situation like that arise, I'd be capable of wielding the sledgehammer, and only wishing because I know there's a difference between saying you'll take up the sword and actually splitting the skin with it.
I'm also getting all sorts of confused over all these comments about the story being objectively bad because the setup has already been explored before, be it Twilight Zone or whatever. Perhaps it's my aestheticistic mindest or something, but why is originality held above skill again? I can understand getting bored by reading the same story all over again, but isn't the same story done better a worthwhile thing?
911048
> I actually enjoy the filth for its... filthiness, I guess
Then go add Eyes Without A Face to your reading list. So very noir and bleak and almost lyrical in its language. It's the best story I've ever had to put down.
> why is originality held above skill again?
The only people saying that are the ones who don't like the story. To me it sounds like someone looking for an excuse to justify their disdain.
In the abstract, there's definitely something to be said for originality, but a story can be good either because it's fresh or because it's done well. Both have merit as measurements of quality, but they work at cross purposes. It's a vanishingly rare tale which can break new ground in a way that stands up against later authors exploring the idea with more depth and refinement.
Just wanted to thank you for recommending this story. I saw it hit the feature box and EqD, but my reading time is pretty limited, so that's not often enough for me to take note of something.
I find myself kind of... overwhelmed... at the fact that this prompted a lot of negativity, though. I don't understand it. I can definitely understand why 906573 wouldn't want to read it (and I think he's right not to, if he sees this), but... I mean, it's not like it's dishonest or misleading, in its structure or in its depiction of its characters. Even without a [Tragedy] tag, it had a [Sad] tag. The thing was basically leading you by the nose to a climax where either Twilight was going to die, or she was going to have to save herself from getting murdered. There's no story there, otherwise.
I find myself particularly fascinated by people dragging religion into this, though. Ghost can attest that I have some decidedly non-standard views on the subject, so I don't relate very clearly to other people's views, but as far as I'm concerned religion really plays no role in the story except as a bit of character shading. And I'm aware, I may view that differently than 906258, even. But the only note of actual faith in this story is the prayer at the end. The rest is just human cowardice given window dressing, and by my reading, even that is scarcely religious. The biggest role it has in the story is in the first word of the title.
In any case, not very enjoyable, but something I'm definitely glad I read.
912185
That's the thing. People said they were expecting a long story about first contact, and adventures in one or both worlds. How they got this impression from a story involving a [Dark] tag, religious overtones, and an isolated setting, I'll never know.
That's the idea. The point of that aspect is that there is no point. Rationalists can be just as brutal as anyone else. I think more people understood this than liked to admit it. That's one reason (among others) why BM's comment section looks like a war zone.
(Sorry, sorry. I'm getting mad again.)
912347
I didn't want to say this actually in the comment thread over there, because yes, it's a mess, but I was particularly struck by how, a couple times, individuals seemed to basically say something to the effect of (and this is a paraphrase in quote tags):
It's... an Orwellian-level piece of doublethink. It really took me aback.
907989
Thanks for the pointer to "Ponies." Creepy as hell.
914017
Isn't it?
Of course, I keep wanting to rewrite the whole thing from Sunny's point of view and have the Mane 6 come bursting out of a portal to rescue her at the last minute. She just doesn't understand why they keep calling her Celestia...
Mike
914017>>914683 I disliked "ponies". Maybe I'm missing something. It's supposed to be about the cost of fitting in. The story's only reason to be is as social commentary. But it doesn't make you think. Just the opposite: It's so one-sided and over-the-top that it poisons the issue by associating it in your mind with horrific images that prevent you from thinking about it.
914798
It's not opening a discussion, it's delivering a sermon. It's Lord Of The Flies In 60 Seconds. Which is a compliment, and a strange compliment for me to pay, because I hate that book with a passion. (I was forced to read it both in junior high and high school and I definitely did not need the adult world forcing me to wallow in how fucked up kids are.) I think this one's short enough that it gave me a swift kick and skedaddled before my brain was able to muster up its full revulsion.
Like I said, horror thresholds are weird.
914683
The sapient, empathetic portion of my brain agrees. The author brain wants to give it a Twilight Zone twist where Sunny is Twilicorn and omg plot twist STARBLOSSOM IS TYRANT CELESTIA.
… not every idea out of my author brain is a winner.
914798
914916
I liked the story:
About as much as a sledgehammer to the face, but I found it to be an artfully delivered sledgehammer.
See, I tend to have three reactions to dark, unhappy stories. First, if the writing doesn't grab me, I stop reading as soon as things get too dark and unhappy for me, and as I'm a wimp, that's usually pretty early on. Second, if the writing does grab me--like it did in "Ponies" or in Cold in Gardez's "In the Garden of Good and Evil"--I get to the end and immediately want to start rewriting it to make it not so dark and unhappy--like I did with "The Golden Age" and this whole "the Mane 6 rescue Sunny" version of "Ponies" that I doubt I'll ever actually write.
And third, if the story's so well put together that the darkness and unhappiness simply can't be mitigated--like with "Biblical Monsters" and very few other stories that I've ever come across in all my years reading: WIlliam Kotzwinkle's novel Doctor Rat might be one, or Walter Wangerin Jr.'s The Book of Sorrows--I just say, "Damn fine story" and go back to work on my light-hearted little talking animal adventures.
Mike