Nightmares
Interview Excerpt: Princess Luna, Diarch of Equestria
I detest this modern era of war.
It is not that I am under any illusions or mistaken nostalgia for the old era of warfare. I’ve heard the opinions of plenty of stallions and mares who win imagined battles from cozy chairs and assert that there was a greater refinement to the older eras of war. Not because of how ponies conducted themselves, mind you, but simply because sword and spear are somehow more elegant than tanks and guns.
This line of thinking is utter folly. Any war will have its nobility and its depravity, regardless of the era. Culture and creed make a far greater impact on the conduct of an army than weapons. After all, shooting somepony can hardly be considered morally inferior to thrusting a blade through somepony’s heart. There were wars wherein there was a greater sense of honor amongst enemies than in the Great War. And there were wars wherein there was less honor as well. The weapons may impact the ease with which we kill one another, but the choice of virtue and vice remains fundamentally in the realm of the soul and the flesh, not fire and steel.
No, the reason I detest this modern era of war is its mechanical nature. Ponies don’t ride to battle as they did in the old days. They charge into a meat grinder.
It used to be that ponies faced an enemy they could see and understand. Flesh against flesh. Now, it feels more like they face merely Juggernaut: a featureless entity of gears and guns that can be neither understood nor killed.
When the War first visited our fair land, I was eager to rain justice upon our foe in blood and steel; to repay them for the atrocities they had committed against us. But Celestia, wisely in retrospect, recognized that my desire to blood our enemy so personally would be a liability on the battlefield. So I remained in Canterlot, to manage affairs at home and ensure that the kingdom rallied behind its bold defenders. But my war was not merely the soft war of politics in those early years. It was also one of minds.
As the Guardian of Dreams, I am not unfamiliar with the devastation that war can wreak upon the mind. Intellectually, I knew that, with the larger armies of today, I would have far more ponies to whom I must minister in the night.
But I… I had not accounted for the horror of it.
What I saw in those ravaged dreamscapes as my ponies were introduced to a new and cruel era of war… even now I shudder at the thought. You of the younger generation only know this modern sort of war, so it is impossible for you to understand what an utter shock it was to our sensibilities. None of us had ever conceived anything like this waking nightmare.
How could we? Before then, it simply did not exist.
Worst of all were the dreams of the prisoners of war. I was not unfamiliar with using my gift to offer succor to the victims of torture. The means by which ponies deliberately inflict pain on each other in prisons have proven to be rather similar from age to age.
But… there were just so many. So many soldiers. So many civilians. So many innocent souls, and among them so many children and I…
…
Ashamed though I am to admit it, there was a part of me that was relieved when the Equalists broke through the lines to threaten Canterlot. Guardian of Dreams or no, there are times when I prefer a tangible enemy.
Know this. When ponies tell you of the terrible wrath of Luna, the princess who threw the Equalists back from the Pelenneigh Fields with such fire and fury that the day was blackened with the smoke of guns, that was merely me venting the pent-up, helpless rage of generation of mothers weeping for lost children. It was the innocent dead of Equestria who carried that day, not I.
…
Most ponies think of the War as something which ended many years ago. But it didn’t. Not for me. As long as there is even one stallion or mare alive who remembers the horrors of that conflict and brings such grief to the land of slumber, my war will continue.
And, as my sister and I do not age… I suppose my Great War will last for a very long time.
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Pelenneigh Fields eh? well done.
You know, I had always thought that Equestria's capabilities make it uniquely suited to fighting a defensive war. For two important reasons. The equestrian military is potentially far more maneuverable than a non-ponish army, and they have immense control over their environment. They could inflict a truely vicious stratagem of harassment while committing relatively little resources.
Imagine, the moment you cross the border, rain. Constant, unending. if it isn't rain it's sleet, every road is a ripped up, muddy disaster. Something's got into our food supplies, ants, vermin, birds, dunno what, but they're either missing or fouled. Foraging isn't doing anything, nothing appears to be in season, even though those earth ponies supposedly harvest crops year-round.
Harassing fire, they're using clouds to move troops around. How are they doing that? Between the invisibility spells and the teleporting, the scouts are going insane with paranoia. Even if you cleared a hilltop 15 minutes ago, that doesn't mean there isn't a mortar team up there now.
And the dreams, oh storms above, the dreams. No one's had a moment's rest since the border crossing. Ripping nightmares, memories of home and family so real as to make you weep, or sometimes something screaming "WAKE UP!" just as you fall asleep. There are people stealing supplies from the medical corps hoping for a drug-induced night's sleep.
And the worst part? All we have to do to make it stop is turn around. The weather a day's march behind us is pristine, (unless you're a re-supply caravan) we could be home in under a week.
9301750
Really, the only tragedy in a pony/yak war would have been all the dead yaks. This is psychological warfare at its finest.
To put it simply: The responsibility of the results of a tool's use lies not on the tool itself, but the user.
My reaction to the latter part of the chapter:
You know, we all know Luna guards dreams, but I don't think we've really thought about the entirety of what that implies, at least not much. This chapter is a great window into the darker side of Luna's duty.
9301750
9301892
Those comments remind me of a story. It's not 100% serious, it's incomplete and abandoned, but it has elements of what you say (enviromental manipulation):
- MLP: FiM
- Adventure
Through a miscommunication between herself and her mentor, Twilight accidentally starts a war with the Griffon Empire. Well, maybe calling it a "war" is too generous...9302401
I think I read that at one point, actually. That awkward moment where Twilight steamrolls the griffons and accidentally becomes Queen in her own right.
Harkening back to the last chapter, Warspite is a fascinating and heartbreaking invention, one that works brilliantly with a species where psychological and physiological aging can't seem to agree on which is the cause and which the effect.
As for this one... Yeah, being a one mare psychological triage unit can't be easy in the best of times. Against the atrocity of the first war of a new era? I hope Canterlot has some very good therapists in the modern era.
9302743
Luna herself likely keeps one on permanent retainer. It doesn't help that a lot of the research would be emerging as the war happened and in the following years. That's why in the first chapter Rainbow corrected herself from calling PTSD 'Shell Shock,' but then didn't know the new term.
My favorite dream video
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=heart+these+dreams&docid=608042478481836929&mid=B9B496A97CB9BA812D5BB9B496A97CB9BA812D5B&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
Although, this is probably more typical
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Teen+Titans+Mad+World&&view=detail&mid=B1BD455322B2B0798469B1BD455322B2B0798469&&FORM=VDRVRV
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Teen+Titans+Mad+World&&view=detail&mid=56D4AA0F1EBCD92354A156D4AA0F1EBCD92354A1&&FORM=VDRVRV
9303322
Ah, Teen Titans. Happy memories (you know, except all the horrible @#$% they went through). Luna wishes these were the dreams she had to deal with.
Simply, wow. The dreams of the damned will haunt them long after the event has occured and the physical wounds healed. I have known all to many who were haunted not just by what they saw, but that which they did. I can only imagine how hard it would gave been to deal with others nightmares as mi e are bad enough.
9925705
Again, thank you.
I imagine Luna's role must be the combination of a good confessor and a good therapist magnified to the nth degree. Over time, such a caretaker learns the commonalities of pain and learns how to teach people coping mechanisms while they learn to internalize what has happened. It comes down to the balance of helping people to accept the reality of the trauma while also helping them realize that the trauma is not their identity. It's a lengthy and often difficult process, helping people realize that dealing with trauma is not the same as being damned, but it is possible. Many of my closest friends have dedicated their lives to the cause.
As an immortal, Luna has certain advantages in that respect - patience, experience, and a broader view of life, augmented by the fact that she's not doing it alone by and large - there are other people "on the ground" who can also help the people she's ministering to. I figure that if real-life people can help others fight their nightmares, someone whose destiny it is to do so can do even better.
...The implication...
Yeah, makes sense given the personality... or is it BOTH of the sisters who have nightmares?
Antiquarian: What would you say the difference in toll would be on a Luna who, like Venerable Ro's version, DOESN'T stick to only defense in dreams, but rather... Well, I'll quote him:
And the dreams, oh storms above, the dreams. No one's had a moment's rest since the border crossing. Ripping nightmares, memories of home and family so real as to make you weep, or sometimes something screaming "WAKE UP!" just as you fall asleep. There are people stealing supplies from the medical corps hoping for a drug-induced night's sleep.
I would think that, at the very least, she would have to guard herself carefully from ever committing a war crime because she forgot she was in the real world for a split second. Or doing the same thing to, say Flim and Flam when they tried some of their usual lies if who she were sitting in judgement over them at court. Not a WAR crime if it happens to ones own citizens... (Sin? Yes. WAR sin? No.)
9301750
See above.
11886683
Well as noted my concept was just one facet in a multi-front harassment campaign, intended to force an invader into retreat through inflicting admittedly brutal battlefield conditions.
It's not in Equestria's nature to pursue an aggressive wartime footing, but in the strategic sense a purely defensive stance doesn't usually work out either. So I set out to envision a stratagem that would be both effective and a minimal risk to pony lives. It is again worth noting that the purpose of the exercise is to destroy morale and combat effectiveness through purposeful implementation of every little thing that can go wrong anyways, just all at once.
As to Luna's actions specifically, I would say that she's more than experienced enough to maintain a proper awareness of her surroundings, and indeed that one of the main purposes of the strategy is to ensure that all of the battle-trauma happens to the invaders. Furthermore, war-time and peace-time are two different things, and there are laws aplenty about things done and not done in the confines of a courthouse.
All that said, I'm glad you're enjoying this most fascinating story, it's a good one, no?
11886712
Everything you said in your response is true, and yet I fear I must reframe my original question lest it be lost to your response.
What would the aftereffects be of seeking out the most effective ways to demoralize in dreams be? To unleash, (nearly?) every sadistic possibility* one can create, because doing your worst in dreams means less suffering for BOTH sides in the waking world. To consider the merits of reading the crimes of the most depraved of offenders for a source of inspiration... to consider De Sade, The BTK** killer, and Vlad Tepes***, as role models. To turn it back to matters covered in Antiquarian's works: To place an enemy into Dachau if only for the length of time it takes them to wake screaming.
*Although reminding an invader who is NOT motivated by "love of what is behind him" of... what is behind him is a BRILLIANT move that had never occurred to me in pondering Luna using dreams as a weapon in war. I shall have to add that to my own fanon for how she uses such techniques.
**Name the press gave to a serial killer. Short for "Bind, Torture, Kill".
***Who MAY for all I know have been misremembered by history. I know he was well loved by his citizens because his punishments were very effective in deterring crime. So depending on how.bad crime was before he instituted them, and, more importantly, what his motivations were, he might have been more "unrestrained" than enjoying causing suffering for its own sake. I would tend to suspect he DID enjoy it, but I'm trying to practice the lesson I found in the notes of one of these stories about much of history being misremembered.
Luna has (probably) done so in canon even. Albeit the nightmare in "For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils" was more at the level of a corrective spanking administered out of Love, rather than the strikes of a martial artist seeking to remove a would-be killer's ability to cause harm.
For a related real-world parallel, I have in the past found myself curious if military interrogators and psychological warfare personnel (the guys who sort through heavy metal (?) to find the best selections to play from speakers mounted on tanks or wherever they put them) ever consulted with the likes of Stephen King or H.R. Gigar? Or, psychology being what it is, perhaps they would need the advice of horror-crafters who write for the specific cultures the enemies they seek to break the will of in a particular case come from?
11886906
Eh, don't need to go all that far methinks, the main thrust would be waking someone up whenever they're trying to fall asleep. As anyone who works a steady job can attest, missing even so little as two nights sleep consecutively will have a crippling effect on competence.
And again in my hypothesis we must remember that all that is needed to escape these measures is to go away. While full retreat is to be preferred, mass desertion or even mutiny on the enemy's part would work just fine.