Mac and Princess Luna continue their relationship, but theirs will not be an easy journey as not everyone is happy to see a Princess with a common farm pony.
Ponyville seems to have grown on Mourne. Still, he's in hot water but he's warmed up to Mac, somewhat. I do wonder though how Mac will be affected by walking into Canterlot. Will he be persecuted or will they try to use him?
4870172 True. I think they would have a field day, while the bat ponies would bow down in reverence to the foal. Maybe Morune would be a good god father.
On the other hand, Pinkie's parties, if loud and raucous, tend to be fairly conventional. I don't think Mourne has to worry about humiliation or embarrassment, just a certain pink Earth Pony insisting that he 'enjoys himself'.
“Oh, a party for Mourne? You know, the batpony who threw McIntosh Apple off a roof and nearly brought about the second coming of Nightmare Moon. That sounds like someone I want to be friends with!”
Well... That's actually a very compelling point. I gotta hand it to you, you really went in-depth with Angstmeister, there. To the point that he's really hard not to hate. I thought that maybe he'd do a full turnaround after he accepted his new post at Sweet Apple Acres, desperately trying to earn forgiveness and redeem himself to the ponies who he'd deliberately and foolishly hurt. Nnope. None of that for Mourne. Too busy moping about his (very serious) error to care about actually making up for it. It's actually quite an impressive feat to properly combine such ego-centric self-loathing and militant grouchiness into a protagonist character. I mean, his attitude doesn't even rise to "anti-hero" level. He's incredibly lucky he was literally dumped into an enclave full of ponies that will go so far to pull his head out of his plot, because any reasonable pony would have (justifiably) given him up for a complete jerk (whether or not he had personally assaulted them). Oh well. At least Mac and Luna are pretty happy.
5008036 The mutant flying horse with mange is inherently an unlikable character because he is an ideologue. Ideologues cannot see reality for what it is because they must see everything through the tinted glass of their narrow world views. He has set about in his mind that he is a victim of bigotry and hatred, but ignores the bigotry and hatred that he himself propagates. Thoroughly narcissistic, he cares little for the account of his own actions unless they physically manifest in a manner that would be detrimental to his own person, but is more than willing to physically harm innocent people for supposed slights against either himself or his worldviews, dressing these acts in the hypocritical banner of 'Common Good'. Lacking substantial character, he will resort to acts of underhanded wholesale deception and tactics of intimidation in order to force others to acknowledge that his is the right viewpoint. When things don't go his way, he becomes a despondent, self-pitying and self-appointed martyr; a petulant child instead of the supposed adult that he is. He is vain, shallow and ultimately an unpleasant character. Men of so little caliber are not men at all, but vile, loathsome creatures that would be better suited to crawling through mud than to actually stand amongst good and decent people. All said and done, I would not feel the least little twinge were something rather horrific to happen to this particular character; his lack of decency, moral fortitude or rational thought have made him truly unpleasant in any sense of the notion. kentcatteries.co.uk/img/smart.jpg
5034406 That's not a reasonable analysis of the character at all. Especially the label of "ideologue". If he's an ideologue, what's his ideology? He hasn't shown any devotion to a greater philosophy that underpins his actions and decisions. He sticks to his own moral code regardless of his nominal loyalty to Luna and the workings of society in general, but that's not an ideology at all. He's not acting in service to some greater purpose, he does it because he's absolutely convinced he's right. The narcissism claim is false. He isn't obviously obsessed with himself at all. Sure, he convinced himself that he knew what was best for Luna even if it was in completely opposition to what she wanted, but he did it in service to another, not because "Mourne is so awesome and can't possibly be wrong". Being a hypocrite and stubborn to the point of delusion doesn't make one a narcissist. And given that there are narcissist pony characters, it's easy to see the difference. Finally, the traits and actions that have led to his current assignment are all WE'VE seen of Mourne, but they're clearly not all there is to the guy. He did manage to bag a solid post in the Lunar Guard, after all, and was trusted to guard Luna personally. When he wilfully screwed it up, his partner and superior seemed genuinely shocked by his actions; he must have done something to gain that trust in the first place in order to betray it. It isn't plausible that the Lunar Guard just ignored the presence of an obvious sociopath in their ranks and promoted him based on seniority or something. My point was merely that the author isn't letting any of those traits come to the fore. I do believe they will in future chapters, because frankly there isn't anything else to do with the character: he's been shown the error of his ways and he's admitted that he's wrong. He's extremely unlikely to continue sabotaging Mac and Luna's relationship or start committing other blatantly immoral deeds. So he's on the path to redemption, but he's being a complete pill about it. It's still redemption.
5035157 It must be the language barrier or something, because the constraints that you put upon a few words that hold a very multifaceted and long historicity is very disturbing. In Deutsch, Narcissism and Hypocrisy are interchangeable. They are also both akin to the term of being Pig-headed and sure of one's self even when absolutely wrong: eingebildet The same can be said of Ideologue in the form of schiefeansicht He is an ideologue (one who follows ideals even against logic) because he feels that he and he alone must protect his sovereign from a perceived threat that only he can see. This also plays into the narcissism (A greater sense of self importance that what is actually existent). And from what I've seen from the previous story, (unwarranted hostility, grandiose notions of knowing what's best for everyone, hypocritical speeches and flagrant disregard for common decency towards those of differing points of view) I feel that my characterization can stand fast to criticism. You've determined your verdict based upon the fact that we've yet to see everything of him. I've based mine off of what I've already seen. I do not know if this is a difference of culture, but where I come from, we've learned the hard way that you can't afford to not come to a quick judgement on the practices of others. If at some point in the story this character improves, I would be willing to change my decision. But until then, I stand by what I have already said, and will not compromise on such things. Though I appreciate the insight on what natural English speakers view it as. Danke. cl.jroo.me/z3/P/S/D/d/a.aaa-educated-cat-with-glasses.gif
5042447 Yes, there must be a language barrier, because in English narcissism and hypocrisy are two totally different things. You could easily be one and not the other: Narcissism: erotic gratification derived from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development. Hypocrisy: a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess. Under those definitions, Mourne is totally a hypocrite, but hardly a narcissist. And then there's ideologue: a person who zealously advocates an ideology. That's it. That's the dictionary definition. "Mourne is right all the time" is not an ideology. And even if it was, he was broken of that in the first part of this story; a character trait like that isn't something you remove from a character with the odd epiphany. As for cultural differences... maybe that does explain it? I don't know. I see absolutely no reason to make a quick judgment of the character. We can certainly "afford" to do so, and it's not like the character is going anywhere now that he's done a Face Heel Turn. So I'm willing to look at more than the brief snapshots of Mourne's life that the readers have been shown. There are plenty of reasons to believe that it was an exceptional event; the guy clearly had SOME friends and was considered fairly reliable before he decided to manage Luna's love life.
5043084 ... English confuses me sometimes; you have so many rules and the words are not very flexible. I suppose I should say then that the mutant flying horse with mange is a hypocrite instead of an ideologue if I am to go with the way you use the word. I still have trouble getting the narcissism one; it's the first English word to come to my head when I translate it from the Deutsch. Oh well - I suppose I'll have to work on that. Thank you for bearing with me on this - the language barrier has struck me once again, and I foolishly did not even realize it! thewhyofit.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/everyone-should-read1-e1352235443979.jpg?w=665
Since adding to my favorites doesn't do anything special anymore, I'll comment instead. I just blazed through Dreams of Flying and caught up here. Best LunaMac I've read yet!
LOVING THIS! And cmon already!? The tension with Twilight and Celestia is maddening! I feel like we can see it behind the scenes! Let's get the royals on a double date! lmao
Ain't no party like a Pinkie Pie party, cuz a Pinkie Pie party don't stop.
She won't allow it
Just a note, Twilight didn't take the train to Ponyville when she first arrived. She was dropped off by chariot.
4856483 So she did. Fixed. :)
I like to listen
To the dark side of the moon
In warm stereo
4856341
Party till you die and drop.
Ponyville seems to have grown on Mourne. Still, he's in hot water but he's warmed up to Mac, somewhat.
I do wonder though how Mac will be affected by walking into Canterlot. Will he be persecuted or will they try to use him?
Great story.
derpicdn.net/img/view/2014/8/12/698271__safe_oc_shipping_princess+luna_straight_clothes_big+macintosh_dress_earth+pony_cutie+mark.png
Great chapter. I think that was a great job. Good luck writing the next chapter. Have fun.
4867091 Great picture. Did you draw that?
4870140
Can't draw to save my life
This is the artist
But yeah, would love to see Luna bear Big Mac's foal (further fueling the drama the nobles will impose unto them)
4870172 True. I think they would have a field day, while the bat ponies would bow down in reverence to the foal. Maybe Morune would be a good god father.
Your time.
Has.
COOOOOME!
On the other hand, Pinkie's parties, if loud and raucous, tend to be fairly conventional. I don't think Mourne has to worry about humiliation or embarrassment, just a certain pink Earth Pony insisting that he 'enjoys himself'.
This story is sooo GOOD.
I realy like your style.
Well... That's actually a very compelling point.
I gotta hand it to you, you really went in-depth with Angstmeister, there. To the point that he's really hard not to hate. I thought that maybe he'd do a full turnaround after he accepted his new post at Sweet Apple Acres, desperately trying to earn forgiveness and redeem himself to the ponies who he'd deliberately and foolishly hurt.
Nnope. None of that for Mourne. Too busy moping about his (very serious) error to care about actually making up for it. It's actually quite an impressive feat to properly combine such ego-centric self-loathing and militant grouchiness into a protagonist character. I mean, his attitude doesn't even rise to "anti-hero" level. He's incredibly lucky he was literally dumped into an enclave full of ponies that will go so far to pull his head out of his plot, because any reasonable pony would have (justifiably) given him up for a complete jerk (whether or not he had personally assaulted them).
Oh well. At least Mac and Luna are pretty happy.
5008036
The mutant flying horse with mange is inherently an unlikable character because he is an ideologue. Ideologues cannot see reality for what it is because they must see everything through the tinted glass of their narrow world views. He has set about in his mind that he is a victim of bigotry and hatred, but ignores the bigotry and hatred that he himself propagates. Thoroughly narcissistic, he cares little for the account of his own actions unless they physically manifest in a manner that would be detrimental to his own person, but is more than willing to physically harm innocent people for supposed slights against either himself or his worldviews, dressing these acts in the hypocritical banner of 'Common Good'. Lacking substantial character, he will resort to acts of underhanded wholesale deception and tactics of intimidation in order to force others to acknowledge that his is the right viewpoint. When things don't go his way, he becomes a despondent, self-pitying and self-appointed martyr; a petulant child instead of the supposed adult that he is. He is vain, shallow and ultimately an unpleasant character. Men of so little caliber are not men at all, but vile, loathsome creatures that would be better suited to crawling through mud than to actually stand amongst good and decent people.
All said and done, I would not feel the least little twinge were something rather horrific to happen to this particular character; his lack of decency, moral fortitude or rational thought have made him truly unpleasant in any sense of the notion.
kentcatteries.co.uk/img/smart.jpg
5034406
That's not a reasonable analysis of the character at all. Especially the label of "ideologue". If he's an ideologue, what's his ideology? He hasn't shown any devotion to a greater philosophy that underpins his actions and decisions. He sticks to his own moral code regardless of his nominal loyalty to Luna and the workings of society in general, but that's not an ideology at all. He's not acting in service to some greater purpose, he does it because he's absolutely convinced he's right.
The narcissism claim is false. He isn't obviously obsessed with himself at all. Sure, he convinced himself that he knew what was best for Luna even if it was in completely opposition to what she wanted, but he did it in service to another, not because "Mourne is so awesome and can't possibly be wrong". Being a hypocrite and stubborn to the point of delusion doesn't make one a narcissist. And given that there are narcissist pony characters, it's easy to see the difference.
Finally, the traits and actions that have led to his current assignment are all WE'VE seen of Mourne, but they're clearly not all there is to the guy. He did manage to bag a solid post in the Lunar Guard, after all, and was trusted to guard Luna personally. When he wilfully screwed it up, his partner and superior seemed genuinely shocked by his actions; he must have done something to gain that trust in the first place in order to betray it. It isn't plausible that the Lunar Guard just ignored the presence of an obvious sociopath in their ranks and promoted him based on seniority or something.
My point was merely that the author isn't letting any of those traits come to the fore. I do believe they will in future chapters, because frankly there isn't anything else to do with the character: he's been shown the error of his ways and he's admitted that he's wrong. He's extremely unlikely to continue sabotaging Mac and Luna's relationship or start committing other blatantly immoral deeds. So he's on the path to redemption, but he's being a complete pill about it. It's still redemption.
5035157
It must be the language barrier or something, because the constraints that you put upon a few words that hold a very multifaceted and long historicity is very disturbing.
In Deutsch, Narcissism and Hypocrisy are interchangeable. They are also both akin to the term of being Pig-headed and sure of one's self even when absolutely wrong: eingebildet
The same can be said of Ideologue in the form of schiefeansicht
He is an ideologue (one who follows ideals even against logic) because he feels that he and he alone must protect his sovereign from a perceived threat that only he can see. This also plays into the narcissism (A greater sense of self importance that what is actually existent). And from what I've seen from the previous story, (unwarranted hostility, grandiose notions of knowing what's best for everyone, hypocritical speeches and flagrant disregard for common decency towards those of differing points of view) I feel that my characterization can stand fast to criticism.
You've determined your verdict based upon the fact that we've yet to see everything of him. I've based mine off of what I've already seen. I do not know if this is a difference of culture, but where I come from, we've learned the hard way that you can't afford to not come to a quick judgement on the practices of others.
If at some point in the story this character improves, I would be willing to change my decision. But until then, I stand by what I have already said, and will not compromise on such things.
Though I appreciate the insight on what natural English speakers view it as. Danke.
cl.jroo.me/z3/P/S/D/d/a.aaa-educated-cat-with-glasses.gif
5042447
Yes, there must be a language barrier, because in English narcissism and hypocrisy are two totally different things. You could easily be one and not the other:
Narcissism: erotic gratification derived from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development.
Hypocrisy: a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
Under those definitions, Mourne is totally a hypocrite, but hardly a narcissist.
And then there's ideologue: a person who zealously advocates an ideology. That's it. That's the dictionary definition. "Mourne is right all the time" is not an ideology. And even if it was, he was broken of that in the first part of this story; a character trait like that isn't something you remove from a character with the odd epiphany.
As for cultural differences... maybe that does explain it? I don't know. I see absolutely no reason to make a quick judgment of the character. We can certainly "afford" to do so, and it's not like the character is going anywhere now that he's done a Face Heel Turn. So I'm willing to look at more than the brief snapshots of Mourne's life that the readers have been shown. There are plenty of reasons to believe that it was an exceptional event; the guy clearly had SOME friends and was considered fairly reliable before he decided to manage Luna's love life.
5043084
... English confuses me sometimes; you have so many rules and the words are not very flexible.
I suppose I should say then that the mutant flying horse with mange is a hypocrite instead of an ideologue if I am to go with the way you use the word. I still have trouble getting the narcissism one; it's the first English word to come to my head when I translate it from the Deutsch. Oh well - I suppose I'll have to work on that.
Thank you for bearing with me on this - the language barrier has struck me once again, and I foolishly did not even realize it!
thewhyofit.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/everyone-should-read1-e1352235443979.jpg?w=665
Since adding to my favorites doesn't do anything special anymore, I'll comment instead. I just blazed through Dreams of Flying and caught up here. Best LunaMac I've read yet!
LOVING THIS! And cmon already!? The tension with Twilight and Celestia is maddening! I feel like we can see it behind the scenes! Let's get the royals on a double date! lmao