Executive Mode On.

Emeral Bookwise sent me a PM on the idea of creating one - a series/setting bible, that is, a document that serves basically a reference guide for authors, both new and old. I'm...a little leery, not at the idea itself, but rather because the last few times we've tried to get a big thing like this going, bad things happened between us all.

Still, I shouldn't let that dissuade me, and I think that at the moment we could really benefit from a series/setting bible. So, this thread will be about establishing one. It'll basically combine the (badly in need of updating) dramatis personae, notes on the setting, in-detail looks at each of our major characters and important supporting cast, and so on.

An important point: This place is not for brainstorming. It's about defining what we already have, not creating or adding something new. And on that note...since this'll be the series bible, I'm gonna need to be a bit more authoritative than I normally prefer to be.

Still, I think the Lunaverse has grown to a point where it needs one of these, which is at once a delightful and a sobering experience.

Anyway...let's get crackin'!

...I don't actually know what to do here. Play me off, EB!

I'm gonna need to be a bit more authoritative than I normally prefer to be.

Strongly advisable. As the one who established the Lunaverse and invited others to play, it's important to put your foot down on the particulars of your universe. Great, consistent world building only rarely happens by committee, after all. Look at the Star Wars EU: it's a gibbering mess in a lot of places, with each author trying to retcon what they don't like about the others and the Force gets interpreted radically differently from one book to the very next in the series so that it seems like Luke is pretty much making it up as he goes along (which he is, I guess).

But, yeah, seems like a Lunaverse Bible would be very helpful for you guys, and possibly settle much of the interpretive conflicts that can occur by formally laying out what's what versus what's "fanon" (fanon of fanon: a fanception), not to mention possibly inspiring new ideas based on seeing how all the facts gathered interact with each other when gathered in one place.

Now the biggest question is where to begin...

779167
Thanks; I don't normally like taking charge, but you're right, I really should more often.

779110
If you feel that is necessary, then go for it, you have every right to take charge as this is your verse. I have some possible concerns mostly regarding confirmation of certain things, but a Lunaverse guide/glossary, could be fairly useful and also serve as a means of opening up the verse, characters, setting ETC to new readers.
Though you might, or might not want to leave some stuff vague such as the origin of the Elements ETC.

779184
Maybe establish a specific "area" to focus on first, say the L!6, lay down the info on them and then work systematically through the universe?
Sorry if that's not to helpful.

I really like this idea, because it also gives new people a place to look that doesn't involve trudging through the monster of a forum you guys have made. I think a "less is more" approach would be best at first, start with the basics, then just work your way through the less controversial things (i.e., good place to put down all of the L!Mane's confirmed relatives, etc.) Have fun!

well if this is a bible then start at Genesis and work backwards first pony first kingdom how the elements came to be and how luna and celly got the elements

Alright then...

So for start, the idea of a story/setting bible would be that it is chiefly a utilitarian document. Unlike the various profiles that have been made for some characters this is not the place for flavor text. The purpose of this document is first and foremost to be efficiently informative, not entertaining in and of itself.

Each item in the bible, be it a character, location, organization, technology, species, or whatever else needs to have a succinct bullet list of traits and or qualities, and any descriptive text should relate to the do-and-don'ts of how to apply and make use of it in a fic. This is not meant to limit an author's creative freedom, but to facilitate it by providing a proper frame work to aid in maintain consistence throughout all Lunaverse fics.

At the most basic level what we are trying to prevent further misappropriations of concepts that plagued S1, such as the Night Court becoming a seeming den of snakes and a villain unto itself above and beyond any one political antagonist, or the flanderization of the L!M6 (Note: to what degree such things actually happened is not a topic of debate, at least not for this thread, what matters here is that these things DID happen to a measure that was off-putting to a non-insubstantial number of readers and in turn became a topics of hot debate even among the authors, and both of those are things we want to avoid in the future).

Likewise as out continuity become increasingly thick with details this is something new authors -- and even old authors -- can use to make sure they have all the fundamentals in order. Not to pick on names but Scarecrowbrad recently ran into a hiccup with his fic because he was unaware of details like airships not being common place.

So then the first order of business would be determine items that need to be addressed in such a document (more or less every character that's had more than a nominal role), and what key bullet points to list for them -- preferably starting from what's been 100% established in a published fic. We can get to the hypothetical stuff that's been bandied about the boards later.

Let's see...start at the beginning I guess. If I were making a series bible, I would go general to specific; sort of like how you might explain it to somebunny who's never heard of the series. Also, remember you cannot be self-referential, and you should probably do your best o avoid mentioning cannon MLPFiM. This is supposed to be an AU "official seies" after all, and so it doesn't have a "mane cannon" to refer to.

Here are my ideas for the basics of the guide so far:

- Basic premesis (Luna sane, Corona, etc.)
- Basics about Equestria
- Basics about the three tribes of Ponies.
- Alicorns
- Basics about the other races (Zebra, Minotaur, ect.)
- The L6 (Names, Personality, Cutie Mark, Background, Action, Trivia)
- The Elements of Harmony (Who has what, why, and how they do and do not work.)
- The Rules of Magic for the three tribes, zebras, ect.
- Secondary Characters (Those that appear regularly that are not part of the L6.)
- Teritary Characters (Those that have multiple appearances, but not enough to be secondary.)
- Extra Characters (Those that only appear once or twice, even if an episode focuses on them.)

779232

That sounds like a pretty good list of stuff to include, though I'd probably adjust the order, personally. Maybe something like:

- Basic premises

- Basics about Equestria

- Basics about the three tribes of Ponies.

- Alicorns

- Basics about the other races (Zebra, Minotaur, ect.)

- The Rules of Magic for the three tribes, zebras, ect.

- The Elements of Harmony (Who has what, why, and how they do and do not work.)

- The L6

- Secondary Characters (Those that appear regularly that are not part of the L6.)

- Teritary Characters (Those that have multiple appearances, but not enough to be secondary.)

- Extra Characters (Those that only appear once or twice, even if an episode focuses on them.)

Mostly adjustments are for super grouping purposes (all character/race/magic subgroups lumped together) as well as--for instance with the Elements of Harmony going after the general magic--order of precedence. It would also be nice to get a timeline in there for reference, as well.

Rough Outline of Equestria follows.

Setting
The Lunaverse stories are primarily set in Equestria.

- The exact size of Equestria is not defined and will not be defined; distances are exactly as large as they need to be for the purposes of plot. For the sake of scale, however, it can be thought of as being roughly the size of the continental United States east of the Mississippi river.

- Equestria's overall technological level is that of the 1880s on Earth. Electricity is known and generally understood, but not harnessed on any meaningful scale. Steam power is prevalent, and Equestria is an industrialized nation. There is a roughly even split between rural and urban ponies (slightly in favor of rural), and suburbs have yet to develop meaningfully.

- Having said that, Equestria is a magical realm as well, so the worst depredations of industrial blight are prevented. Coal burners, for example, are magically enchanted to burn clean, producing no (or nearly no) atmospheric pollution.

- Equestria is nominally a monarchy. At its top is the immortal Princess Luna, who largely serves as an arbitrator and judge of the rest of the government, though she does have supreme executive, legislative, and judicial authority authority. Below Luna sits the Night Court, made of of heredity nobles vying for prestige and power. The Night Court has legislative and executive power but is subordinate to the will of Luna, though she rarely imposes it. The Night Court creates most of the laws of Equestria. Below the Night Court are the Lord Mayors and Municipal Councils, both of which are democratically elected by the common citizenry of Equestria. Each town and city in Equestria has a mayor and council that administer their charges and carry out and enforce the laws of the Night Court. It is important to note that while the mayors are below the Night Court in power, they are not subordinate to it and can object or overturn Night Court decrees with popular vote. Finally, each town/city of note has a Representative of the Night Court appointed to it by Luna. The Representative serves as the voice of the town/city to the Night Court and vice-versa. It is their job to ensure that the Night Court and Luna are kept appraised of the needs of their charge, and also usually relay edicts and announcements from the Night Court to their charge.

- Equestria has an extensive rail network connecting all but the smallest or most remote villages. It has a developing telegraph network that currently connects all the major cities

- In some areas, Equestria is ahead of its overall tech level, and in others, it is behind. Medicine: Advanced due to magical supplement. Modern fine surgery (such as brain, heart, or corrective eye) isn't possible yet; disease prevention and combat, however, is nearly on-par with modern techniques. Military: less advanced than would be suspected. Crossbows are the height of military development for soldiers, though large gunpowder canons are available for ships. Aviation: Slightly ahead. Hot-air balloons are reasonably common, primitive blimps are built by the wealthy. The first true rigid airship will be launched soon. Chemistry: Gunpowder is known to Equestrians, though it is mostly used for fireworks. They also know how to make TNT and other high explosives, but mostly use it for construction. Using magic, they can actually create or distil many substances that would be beyond them, most notably helium for airships. Naval: Sailing ships, no steam ships yet. Equestria has a poor seafaring tradition. Exploration: Equestrians have circumnavigated their planet, but maintain no colonies, and most of their interaction is with their home continent or its closest neighbors. Foreign lands are places of more myth than fact. Other: in all other fields and ways not mentioned here, Equestria should be assumed to be at about an 1880s level of technology, as mentioned above.

- Equestrian agriculture is insanely productive. A combination of earth pony magic (which allows ponies to conduct several harvests per year) and pegasus weather-control magic means that Equestria produces food at staggering rates; if transplanted onto modern Earth they could at least equal the food output of the United States despite Equestria being about half the size. This allows Equestria to maintain a much larger population than its technological development might otherwise suggest is possible.

- Equestria's currency is the silver bit. The bit is further divided into ten copper coins called jangles. Golden bits used to be minted, but they have fallen out of favor.

- Equestria's population is overwhelmingly ponies of the three major tribes: Pegasi, earth ponies, and unicorns. The tribal integration is nearly complete; while a given tribe may dominate one area or another, they rarely have a majority, only a plurality (the obvious exception is the pegasus cloud cities). Tribalism (bigotry based on a pony's tribe) is very rare, though not completely unheard of.

- Earth ponies are the most common kind of pony, and pegasi the least, but it is by a very narrow margin (say something like 34% earth pony, 32% unicorn, and 30% pegasus, and 4% other tribes, subtribe, or species)

- Equestria is completely egalitarian; mares and stallions can rise to any position with no limitation.

- Sexual preference is not discriminated against, ever. The majority of ponies would be defined as "straight" in human terms, but ponies are somewhat looser in general than humans. Preferred choice in partners is approached like an argument over favorite food. It is never a moral issue, and never has been.

779260

Medicine: Advanced due to magical supplement, nearly on par with modern Terran techniques.

I think it's been brought up a few times that medicine is behind us enough that, for instance, Ditzy's strabismus cannot be surgically 'fixed' -- there's no lasik or other eye surgeries, and presumably other surgeries as well.

779271
Hmm, fair point. I'll adjust that.

Yeah, we definitely need a series bible

Do we have an approximate population, or at least a general population guide for cities of various sizes? (e.g., rural farming communities like Ponyville, metropolis like Manehattan, etc)

779347
For a city like Manhattan it might be best to start by looking at the population of the real world counterpart at the equivalent historical time period (which according to wikipedia would be round about 1.2 million).

Another thing that needs to be established is how quickly the inhabitants age (as well as why they tend to use terms like 'yearling' as an equivalent to 'teenager'.)

How about an update to the L!mane 6 character sheets showing any changes / development between the first and second seasons?

Some things to consider putting into this:

* A definite tone and mood for the Lunaverse as a whole.

* A breakdown of the basic characteristics for each cast member, what arcs you want to pursue, and when you want development to take place. That way we can avoid what happened when CTS ended Carrot Top's main story (the rivalry with Applejack) and started another story with the Farmer's Union that really has no clear focus just yet.

* Clear rules about what does and does not belong in the Lunaverse. You can note that exceptions will be allowed, but only on a case by case basis, and only after your approval.

* Rules outlining how the L!M6 can be used.

And think of it this way; if this works, you will never have to deal with another IAH again.

Settings post looks good! Will you be putting the actual series bible in a moderator locked post, while this one is for figuring out what needs to go there?

Updating and further detailing the Dramatis Personae sounds pertty important to me. I was just thinking the other day that a master list of who was and wasn't kidnapped by Corona could be helpful, because I'm pretty sure I've read conflicting reports regarding Rarity, at least.

I think this is a really good idea and will help prevent Major continuity errors comunity continues to grow.

Since it will be the setting for most of the stories I think it might pay to have an outline of Ponyville and how it functions.

I'm not meaning real nitty gritty but a basic outline of fundimentals that are required by most towns as well key ponies and the roles they fill.
eg
Local Government
Law Enforcement
Firefighting
Healthcare
Post Office
Education
Accomadation
etc...

Most of these have already been covered in stories but it might be good to have a single definitive reference.

779463
Long term the boards is probably not the best place to keep all of this; the information will all needed to be organized and compiled, either in something like a G-doc or for easy cross-referencing maybe a wiki (we even already have one of those that isn't getting much use, but some policing would then be required to maintain the integrity of the resource against malicious editing).

779463

Settings post looks good! Will you be putting the actual series bible in a moderator locked post, while this one is for figuring out what needs to go there?

Sounds like a good idea.

779501

779561
For now the board's not so bad, though, at least until we have enough information compiled to set it up elsewhere.

779561: What about our tvtropes page?

779463: ALso the master list of who and who wasn't in the riot that destroyed Trixie's house on the first episode. I'm pretty sure AJ has been mentioned both as being there and not being there, for instance.

779659
moocow.

wat r u doin

moocow

stahp

(actually, to prevent just what you mentioned from accidentally happening, I think I'll keep it locked when not in use).

'Octavia' should probably be added to the Canterlot supporting cast.

779690
Good point - I'll add her now.

MAN we have a large stable of characters.

Heh. "Stable."

CUE THE HORSE PUNS!

779695
I can edit posts when locked, yes, so that's what I'll largely be doing.

But even I, The Almighty Admin, cannot add new posts to a locked thread. Though I can unlock it. FOR I AM THE ALMIGHTY ADMINISTRATOR, Crafter of the Lock and Wielder of the Banhammer.

Though I've never used the Banhammer and sincerely hope I'll never have to. Except maybe against a Bot. I'd like a Bot to show up, just so that I could ban it, and say that I've used the Banhammer, without having to have banned a real person.

779722
Eh, it's not the same...

779660
The TVtopes page isn't really the best place for such a catalog. As is the style of that site, the articles there don't take themselves entirely seriously and are ripe with hyperbole, snark, and circuitous references. Which is good, it makes it a lively and entertaining place... but for the bilbe we need something that is more like a text book -- bland but efficiently informative (to some extent it's the kind of thing that might double as an FAQ).

779850 Information, not entertainment, is the purpose of a series bible. Series bibles are often critically boring to read because they are anilitical, precise, and acknowledge the basic reasons behind decisions. Plot convenience, act zero's, retro genesis, ect.

I'm really enjoying this info dump, it's the kind of stuff I love most about all the fanfiction I read.

- Sexual preference is not discriminated against, ever.

And thank you for laying this down- I'm glad to see this sort of conflict excluded. Equestrian society is different enough (and there's enough of a gender ratio disparity) that to me this trope has always been clunky and ill-fitting with Equestrians.

779888

In this same vein, and because I know it'll come up, I ask this:

Was dating a pony from a different tribe ever a big deal, whether presently or in the past?

.....man, I guess I finally need to write those biographies of DT and Scootaloo I promised WAY back when I was still writing Scootalong.

779888
It's actually something I've enforced from the beginning...If I recall correctly, WAAAAY back in the very first brainstorming thread, someone thought of writing a story wherein some moral guardian comes and has something to say about Bon Bon and Lyra's relationship. I squashed it as fast as I could.

Though, the gender disparity is something I forgot to include in the description of Equestria...namely, I don't think there is one. We see one in the TV show due to an executive order from Hasbro to have more female than male characters, but I always assumed that it was just a conceit of the show and not actually reflective of Equestria as a whole.

779986

Okay, works for L-verse. The disparity was actually something I liked about the world, it was a definite cultural difference that had the potential to create some social dissonance and gave a good reason for the widespread acceptance of same-sex couples without having to delve into the whole morality aspect. I suppose it was just my headcanon, but it made pair-bonding the primary purpose of a relationship, rather than procreation.

Anyway, sorry for going tangential, mostly wanted to say I'm very glad to see this info being organized!

779995

Good question. I've seen some fics where that sort of bigotry has featured, and it was not totally objectionable in terms of a storytelling element. For me, soft bigotry of that sort could be useful for expanding on a character or illustrating growth, where a pony experiences some internal conflict between dislike and the more rational knowledge that there is no justification for the bigotry. Out and out hate I think is a dead end- we all know where that will go.

779975
Way back before the first Hearth Warming, when the three tribes lived apart from each other, I'd imagine that such inter-tribal fraternizations were highly taboo. By the modern age though only the most diehard tribalist would still take any offense to it.

The only more public concern that might persist to the preset would likely be among pegasi, most prominently those who live in the cloud cities. I could see a pair of pegasus parents urging caution if one of their children started dating a unicorn or earth pony -- "It's not that there's anything wrong with you're new boyfriend, but are you really sure you're ready to leave your home behind; you won't really ever be able to move back. And think of your potential children; they might never be able to attend the family reunions."

779703
Speaking of RED text; the bible could maybe use a little here and there to emphasize certain points, especially things that writers should NOT do or infer.

>>> NOTE: it is not my intent here to level accusations or place blame <<<

Back when S1 was still fresh and new, statements that could have really helped prevent trouble spots would have been...

-- Despite public rumors and allegations, the Night Court is NOT a den of backstabbing snakes more concerned with prompting their own selfish agendas than the public welfare. The nobles can be portrayed as obfuscating or obstructive antagonists, but overtly malicious villainy should be avoided.

or

-- despite Carrot Top's rather vocal opinion on the mater, AJ is NOT trying to strangle the life out of the Ponyville farming community, nor do any of the other farmers much share that opinion, even if they would all like to get a bigger share of the market for themselves.

or

-- While the Lunaverse explores more mature themes than the show, it is still fundamentally the same kind of setting and as such the cast should never have need to employ lethal combat tactics, nor any temptations to learn such.

Basically, another use of the bible would be to clarify authorial intent, so as to keep future plot arks from running off rail or inappropriate thematic elements from being introduced. Some of the above examples aren't entirely relevant anymore, and even if they were should probably be abbreviated down to their core essence, but the point is that some things in the bible might warrant added emphasis.

That's not to say the bible should remain immutable, if something is not working or an author thinks they have a better idea than the matter should always be open for discussion, but such change should come about through the communal effort of the brainstorming threads, not because a singular author took it upon themselves to promote their own head-canon.

780004
Funnily enough, I plan on touching on the pegasus thing at some point...I think that in Equestria, unicorns are most famous for being tribalists and haughty and believing in the überpferd, while earth ponies are often thought of as stubbornly sticking to their old ways (without necessarily putting down the other tribes intentionally), but the ponies most likely to actually be bigoted are cloud-city-born pegasi, since theoretically they could go their whole lives without ever actually meeting one of the other two tribes, and do remain largely isolated, so they can be such without ever being called out on it.

Not in an in-your-face KKK kind of way, mind, but more like how the Japanese view the rest of the world. Japanese culture can be startlingly racist in its portrayals of other people and cultures, but this is largely because Japan is 99% ethnically Japanese and so the concern of offending someone just doesn't exist.

As for the text...I think I'll highlight in bold green instead, as red is the color I use for moderation, while green is the color I use for executive authority.

The thing about tribal relations in Equestria is that tribe and class are strongly linked. In the days of the founding, the working class were earth ponies, the aristocracy were unicorns, and the military were pegasi. That's changed a lot in the 1000+ years since the founding, mind you - the Night Court is a pretty even mix of all three tribes, and Equestria's massive agricultural output means that there aren't as many farmers in Equestria as there would be in a real-world country, so the working class is not exclusively earth ponies. Still, the point is, I don't think many ponies at all actually dislike other ponies based on tribe, but there can be class conflicts which might look, to an outsider, an awful lot like tribal conflicts.

780119
Fair enough on the color choice. Personally I think red pops more than green, plus if the main thing being highlighted is the major "don'ts" than there is also reds common association with stop/danger. Still, your call.

As for the tribalism; that was more or less how I saw it. Unicorns might be the more famous tribal bigots, but pagasi are the most likely to actually engage in casual bigotry. Not out of any sense of entitled superiority, but just because they lack a proper frame of reference. I can imagine more than a few young pegasi, making their first visit to the "exotic" ground lands, has tried to pay a pony a compliment only to come off as an Innocent Bigot.

It also seems to me that pegasus culture is the most likely to practice bigotry against their own tribe. Again it should never be a big thing, but there could be a subtle disconnect between cloud-born and ground-born.

780314
Interesting point, but I'm not sure how much the cast/class thing would still be relevant in modern Equestria as ponies of all tribes are free to pursue any career the like (the sole exclusion being jobs like weather patrol which more or less require wings). Earth ponies might make the best farmers, but a pegasus or unicorn with a cutie mark for growing crops is still a better farer than an earth pony with an unrelated talent

One thing that would be helpful is maybe physical characteristics, especially for OCs. Eye color, coat and mane color, cutie mark, that sort of thing.

780631
I was actually thinking of asking everyone who's made a significant OC to mess around in the pony creator and post what they want them to look like.

But later. Right now I'm taking a short break to play Rise of Nations: Thrones and Patriots, specifically the New World campaign. I am the British and I just put down those rebellions Americans, and right now I have to deal with the odious French and then the Spanish, who have managed to conquer the Maya, the Aztec, and clearly have designs on the Dutch.

The New World shall be mine! Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves, Britons never ever ever shall be slaves!

I'm think that there needs to be a notation somewhere on the role of the L!M5 in the setting, namely that they aren't focal characters. Stories can include them, but should never be about them; they aren't here to be put under the spot-light, and are best left on the sidelines whenever possible (at least no core canon, side stories should be fair game though).

It's also important to clarify, in *BOLD* highlight, that they are not bad ponies. They might not get along well with the L6 (like Raindrops perpetual frustrations with Rainbow Dash work ethic) and so to a limited degree can serve in minor antagonistic roles, but they are still fundamentally not supposed to be all that different from there canon selves. They might not possess the same degree of heroic virtue as their M! selves, but they are still good ponies.

Also, some specific notes on the intend application of how best to use each of them, such as Pinkie's role as a random gag character, and possibly our counterpart to what Derpy is on the show.

781308: I think RK had some plans to do other things with Pinkie than that, if I'm remembering correctly.

***

Might also be good to list out overall season themes and arcs (at least for the current season 2), so stories could have common themes tying them together. If S2 is supposed to have more Corona, for instance, that, and associated ideas ("second half of the season, most episodes should at least refernece or otherwise show the affects of Corona's impending war", etc), could be useful in the bible.

781347
Agreed. Though right now I kind of want to work on what we have.

Speaking of which, delegation time! I need volunteers to help write up profiles for...well, for now, let's still with the L6. Just use the format I have in the bible thread.

I call dibs on Trixie.

781347
What RK wants to do is more like an exception than the rule, and whether or not it's a good idea is a subject not suited to this thread. What's important here is to set down a base line foundation, and I'm just echoing what RDD himself has said and/or supported on the matter of Pinkie Pie. Exemptions to that base line foundation can exist, but should be handled on a case by case basis.

...

I do, however, think you've got a good idea going by suggesting a sort of master outline guide for the themes of the seasonal arks.

781365
I would maybe be willing to try for Raindrops, though i'm not sure how well that would go down or if I know enough. But is it also a good idea to split that kind of task up, especially for the L!6, if it's a time thing, i'm not sure it would make much difference.
Still your call and everything, sorry if that was out of sorts or disrespectful, that' was not my intent.