1180094
Which describes "Optimal".

On to the topic, you could be like Adam Savage in that special episode where he explores the tech that might be immortal.

Or, you could be like the wizards in the "Dresden Files," where you have 300 yrs or so lifespans and they have to change places every once in a while and change ID's.

Personally, I just want to get through college. After that, then we can discuss.

1179714 Pass, our lifes end for areason. They're meant for us living to the fullist because we know they're not going to last forever. As long as your life meant something, there's no reason to live till the end of time. Sure you can do everything you want in life with no limits at all but at the same time, everyone you care about, all your friends, family and loved ones. Imagine slowly seeing your family aging and dying, only to make you never to see you again. I won't be able to live with that. I'd rather die happy than live an empty life.

I would be fine being immortal as long as I had my fiance to be immortal with.

Meh, going to agree with Magnus Lee on this one. Anything more than 500 years I'd be bored. 5000 would be a Hellish nightmare.

1180454 What about with mind wipes? o3o

1180475
Well then what's the point?

Or,

I've lived for almost ten thousand years. Believe me you have no idea what that means: boredom. Everlasting and hideous boredom. A never ending search for ways to pass the time... and mating with a human female is one of the few I enjoy. Eventually they become tiresome. For in spite of their vitality, they are fundamentally stupid creatures who couldn't survive without the nobility to rule them. Perhaps now you'll understand my wanting to have some fun every thousand years or so?

1179714
Agreed, I'd love to be immortal; think of all the stuff I'd be able to do, all the things I could learn, and all the trouble I could create.

Although I think I'd grow tired of living after a few centuries of watching humanity's self-destructive behavior and running out of original stuff to do. Eh... go figure.

1179714 A guy could do a lot of good given a thousand years or so

I'm in

1179714
It also depends on the "mode" of immortality. Would you simply be long-lived? Or would you be able to reconstruct yourself from fatal damage? I honestly would rather have the former, since the latter would mean going through the pain of dying every time someone tries to kill me. Watch Rin~ Daughters of Mnemosyne. It would be kind of like that.
"Oh, I got caught in the middle of a gang war today. Completely perforated. Good thing I can heal. But it hurt like hell.

Of course, if you have the latter, at what point do you simply go insane and wish for a swift end, seeking oblivion?

1180517 It's not like you'd wipe away the good memories, only the ones that would cause you to be so tired and sick of life in the first place.

1180645
That's the problem. If you like reading, how many books could you read before everything becomes so formulaic you just can't stand it anymore? 200? 2000? 20,000? You've got forever, you're going to hit that point. Hell, I've already reached that point in my life with science. I've lived long enough to see science recant itself so many times I don't listen anymore because I know they're just talking out their ass and a couple years later they're going to say something completely different anyway.

I would like to live... until I don't want to anymore. I don't know when that will be. But I sure would like an extra 10 years with an indefinite option to renew!

1179721

Contrary to popular belief, scientists typically follow a rigorous code of ethics. Even if you could get some sociopaths to do the research on some human being who is being held against their will, unless you lied about your methods your data wouldn't be publishable. The vast majority of the RND done for the US government is preformed by universities or private organizations. There have been many weird or unique people who aren't thrown in a bunker somewhere by the US government (or some planetary overwatch that you seem to be referring to). There is no department running around cutting open aliens, finding rainbow maned talking ponies, and adding adamantium to the skeletons of people with regeneration mutations.

In fact, if someone did live for more than 150 years, and was unique, scientists would probably be lining up to do voluntary experiments on them, and if they had a shred of human decency, they would agree to participate to the best of their ability as long as the experiments weren't going to cause them undue suffering or permanent harm. If they hired the right lawyers, they would have intellectual property rights to all of the discoveries made through the use of their body, and would be financially secure for the rest of their long and healthy years.

In closing, I am not, I repeat: NOT a member of said planetary overwatch attempting to hide the fact that we kidnap people for living too long.

Also, the behavior of the main character in My Little Dashie is dumb.

Contrary to popular belief, scientists typically follow a rigorous code of ethics. Even if you could get some sociopaths to do the research on some human being who is being held against their will, unless you lied about your methods your data wouldn't be publishable. The vast majority of the RND done for the US government is preformed by universities or private organizations. There have been many weird or unique people who aren't thrown in a bunker somewhere by the US government (or some planetary overwatch that you seem to be referring to). There is no department running around cutting open aliens, finding rainbow maned talking ponies, and adding adamantium to the skeletons of people with regeneration mutations.
In fact, if someone did live for more than 150 years, and was unique, scientists would probably be lining up to do voluntary experiments on them, and if they had a shred of human decency, they would agree to participate to the best of their ability as long as the experiments weren't going to cause them undue suffering or permanent harm. If they hired the right lawyers, they would have intellectual property rights to all of the discoveries made through the use of their body, and would be financially secure for the rest of their long and healthy years.
In closing, I am not, I repeat: NOT a member of said planetary overwatch attempting to hide the fact that we kidnap people for living too long.
Also, the behaviour of the main character in My Little Dashie is dumb.

Scientists don't necessarily get to decide what they research, they're told by the people with the money. It's not inconcievable that the government would hide such a person and merely use the results of the experiments to help those they saw fit. Besides if we discover a way to immortality, I don't think they would share it with the public: it would destroy society. We already have too much trouble with population growth without adding to it.

Also governments like china would totally do it. And they might even consider kidnapping such a person from another country.

It'd be cool to be immortal though. Over time you'd pretty much be forced by experience into being someone like Celestia or Luna. Even if you didn't bother with running a country. And things won't get old, not for ages anyway. You;d just have to look for new things, go sightseeing, listen to some new bands. And if you were bored, just change reality like discord so it's more to you liking.

To everybody that has brought up the "terrors" of being immortal.

Think about it. Do you currently live 10 or 20 years at a time? Do you see the whole timespan of your existance as a single entirety? I think one could very much enjoy eternity as long as you just continue to live day for day instead of concentrating on the centuries passing by.

That being said, yeah immortality would be pretty great. Finally some time to do the stuff that I want instead of the stuff that's neccessary.

1179714 Our goal should not be to live super long, but to live healthy.

1180094 Cortex Command much?

1182026 I have that game.

1179714
Really? Nobody?

'Gentlemen, forget what your courtesans have told you, size does matter!'

Alpha Centauri had the best quotes. I swear, there have been times where I went through it just to hear all the leaders talk about technologies and stuff. And Morgan had some of the best.

Heck, I think I've actually used the text of your post in a conversation in real life before.

Also, as to the topic, I well agree.
Maybe I'd decide not to live forever. But the thing of it is, I'd prefer the choice. If humans really would get bored after a few hundred years, it isn't like you lose the ability to kill yourself. But, why not live life until you're sated?

Those who have said they want to live forever and learn everything they can - you're making huge assumptions about the longevity of the human mind. We aren't supposed to last more than a century or so; thousands of years are going to become a blur. Plus, as your knowledge pool expands and memories are piled upon memories, you're going to start forgetting things since you have to practice and repeat more and more skills to keep them up to speed.

The key to immortality is the required secondary powers (and the ability to toggle it off if you find yourself in a fate worse than death). Can you still be damaged? If so, eternity is a long window of opportunity for you to get pinned under a fallen building or collapsed cave. Immune to disease? I'd hate to think what might happen if you came down with a terminal illness or Alzheimer's disease; what happens when you can survive something that inherently keeps getting worse?

Don't get me wrong. I happen to have a very cynical outlook on the value of the short human lifespan. Give me a few hundred years, definitely. But make sure I can turn it off, so I don't get to suffer millions of years floating in space someday. It doesn't matter how unlikely something is; the probability of anything occurring approaches 100% over a long period of time.

That long period of time happens to be your lifespan.

1180586

Being in pain is still better than dying. Getting shot by gangbangers and surviving is still better than getting shot by gangbangers and not surviving.

Of course it would be optimal to not get shot at all, but if I have to get shot I'd prefer to live with the pain.

1182552

Those who have said they want to live forever and learn everything they can - you're making huge assumptions about the longevity of the human mind. We aren't supposed to last more than a century or so; thousands of years are going to become a blur. Plus, as your knowledge pool expands and memories are piled upon memories, you're going to start forgetting things since you have to practice and repeat more and more skills to keep them up to speed.

Meh. We don't actually know for sure what kind of storage capacity the human brain actually has, but one rough estimate I've seen put it a 2.5 petabytes. That translates into at least 300 years of memories.

Anyway, this is all a secondary issue - we'll solve that problem after we solve the much more important problem of mortality.

The key to immortality is the required secondary powers (and the ability to toggle it off if you find yourself in a fate worse than death). Can you still be damaged? If so, eternity is a long window of opportunity for you to get pinned under a fallen building or collapsed cave.

That would suck, sure, but as I said before, I want to avoid those things anyway.

Anyway, I don't belive there is such a thing as a fate worse than death.

[quotw]Immune to disease? I'd hate to think what might happen if you came down with a terminal illness or Alzheimer's disease; what happens when you can survive something that inherently keeps getting worse?Dude, you don't survive Alzheimers. Getting Alzheimers is kind of a major setback if you are trying to live forever. And if you do survive it, that means you're cured.

1182591

Meh. We don't actually know for sure what kind of storage capacity the human brain actually has, but one rough estimate I've seen put it a 2.5 petabytes. That translates into at least 300 years of memories.

You've got to contend with the crappy filing system. Sure, the human brain is extremely powerful (in ways most people haven't actually had explained to them), but it's not as straightforward and logical as a computer. Otherwise I could perfectly recall every single thought I'd ever had in my 25 years of life. There's a reason the brain doesn't store everything perfectly (otherwise it'd fill up with crap), and our free will and ability to act spontaneously without premise has to come from somewhere.

That would suck, sure, but as I said before, I want to avoid those things anyway.

Anyway, I don't belive there is such a thing as a fate worse than death.

The abyss before your birth wasn't inconvenient at all. The abyss after you die will be the same; you only worry about it because you have the perspective of existing to compare it to.

Being immobilized at the bottom of the ocean for thousands of years, unable to die, going mad from the isolation? Yes. There are things worse than death; even without immortality in the picture, sadistic torturers who go out of their way to keep their victims alive to maximize suffering know exactly what they're doing.

Death is nothing to fear. The reason we're apprehensive about it is because we're all (I assume) young and vibrant. When you hop out of bed in the morning, wide awake and refreshed, do you have any desire whatsoever to go back to bed? No. But as the day drags on, you gradually become tired... until you want nothing more than to go to bed. Think of death the same way; one day, you'll know it's time. You'll feel it.

Dude, you don't survive Alzheimers. Getting Alzheimers is kind of a major setback if you are trying to live forever. And if you do survive it, that means you're cured.

The point being that terminal illnesses aren't meant to be recovered from. Humans don't reach a "critical existence failure" (if you're not a troper: that means that as long as you have 1 health or higher, you operate fine, but hit 0 and you die instantly; there's no in-between). The illness weakens you until something (probably your heart) fails. Immortality will let the disease takes it course completely - for Alzheimer's, that would likely be the complete decay of your brain, i.e. brain dead.

But let's take a more mundane case - wasting away from lack of nutrition and/or water. Imagine what would happen if you became so weak you couldn't even move, but you're not gonna die? You can't just keep walking and eventually get out of the desert; you collapse, paralyzed and immobile from fatigue and pain, praying you're someday discovered. Maybe in 10 years?

1180013

Realistically youre talking about a concept that we really cant comprehend and lack the ability to explore.

What you said has equal chance of being right and wrong. Since alive taken strictly in a biological sense isnt nessecarily 'alive' when exploring the concept of 'life' from an immortal or even an artificial being.

The only thing to be said about it is that its whatevet the writer wants it to be.

Also kind of strange of you to claim that the universe doesnt work a certain way, when we havent explored it and possibly barely understand it.

1182610

You've got to contend with the crappy filing system. Sure, the human brain is extremely powerful (in ways most people haven't actually had explained to them), but it's not as straightforward and logical as a computer. Otherwise I could perfectly recall every single thought I'd ever had in my 25 years of life. There's a reason the brain doesn't store everything perfectly (otherwise it'd fill up with crap), and our free will and ability to act spontaneously without premise has to come from somewhere.

Of course we don't remember everything we experience. That is a good thing, no? Especially if one intends to live forever. That's just another reason we probably won't have to worry about running out of data space.

The abyss before your birth wasn't inconvenient at all. The abyss after you die will be the same; you only worry about it because you have the perspective of existing to compare it to.

No, seriously, I really, really, really don't want to go back to not existing. The mere thought makes me sick and keeps me up at night.

I don't mind inconvenient. Being inconvenienced is good, because it means I'm still alive. Being anything is better than not being anything.

Being immobilized at the bottom of the ocean for thousands of years, unable to die, going mad from the isolation? Yes. There are things worse than death

I consider such a fate to be - at worst - about as bad as death. Assuming it's genuinely hopeless, anyway, with no chance of salvation. If so, yeah. Coin flip, pretty much.

Worse? No.

Yes. There are things worse than death; even without immortality in the picture, sadistic torturers who go out of their way to keep their victims alive to maximize suffering know exactly what they're doing.

I don't think any kind of suffering is worse than dying. I do however aknowledge that suffering has an unfortunate tendency to break the human will to live. But suffering can end, and the will to live can be regained. You can never recover from death.

Death is nothing to fear.

I disagree. Frankly, I'm not sure anything short of death is truly worth fearing.

Look, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to sell you on this whole fear of death thing. It's good that you're not afraid of dying - I admit, I do envy those of you who can face death graciously. Fearing death is an agony I wouldn't wish on anyone.

But you're not telling me anything I haven't heard a hundred times before, and I still can't make myself belive in it. I simply love life far too much.

The reason we're apprehensive about it is because we're all (I assume) young and vibrant. When you hop out of bed in the morning, wide awake and refreshed, do you have any desire whatsoever to go back to bed? No. But as the day drags on, you gradually become tired... until you want nothing more than to go to bed.

You assume too much. I actually have a serious sleep disorder because I don't like going to sleep, no matter how tired I am. Going to sleep reminds me too much of dying.

Think of death the same way; one day, you'll know it's time. You'll feel it.

Why? Because I've grown old and weak and demented? Because that's also a problem we really need to fix.

In fact, that's pretty much item #1 on the "Let's do something about this death bullshit" list.

The point being that terminal illnesses aren't meant to be recovered from. Humans don't reach a "critical existence failure" (if you're not a troper: that means that as long as you have 1 health or higher, you operate fine, but hit 0 and you die instantly; there's no in-between). The illness weakens you until something (probably your heart) fails. Immortality will let the disease takes it course completely - for Alzheimer's, that would likely be the complete decay of your brain, i.e. brain dead.

Yes, exactly. Brain dead. Emphasis on the "dead" part.

As I said, getting a terminal illness is a serious problem if you don't want to die. Because they kill you. Hence "terminal."

But let's take a more mundane case - wasting away from lack of nutrition and/or water. Imagine what would happen if you became so weak you couldn't even move, but you're not gonna die? You can't just keep walking and eventually get out of the desert; you collapse, paralyzed and immobile from fatigue and pain, praying you're someday discovered. Maybe in 10 years?

Yes, yes, that would truly suck. But hey, at least I wouldn't be dead!

Anyway, by then I might be an awesome cyborg with a miniature smartphone built into my head. I could call some of my awesome cyborg friends and tell them to pick me up at my GPS coordinates and then just read pony fanfics and listen to music while I wait for the rescue.

I mean, let's be a bit optimistic here, okay?

And while we're playing pretend: Imagine you're standing in front of Princess Celestia - a being who's been alive for thousands of years and is showing no sign of slowing down whatsoever. Let's say you give her that whole starving-in-the-desert scenario. Do you think for one moment she would buy that as a convincing argument for why becoming immortal was a bad idea? Do you think being informed of a possibility like that would make her regret living for all those millennia?

Of course not. She'd probably laugh at you. You know why? Because nobody lives like that. Nobody ever says: "I should probably die young while I'm still happy, because the odds of meeting a horrible fate increases the older I get." We don't do that. We walk into the future with fortitude, dealing with suffering as it comes, and every good day we get along the way is worth living.

1222439

We understand entropy pretty well. The laws of thermodynamics are rather well established by now. Time moves, lights go out, old tools are worn down with use, bodies break, mountains turn to sand, stars burn out and collapse on themselves. Even black holes slowly decay over the eons. Can you look at this universe and find me one single everlasting thing?

To exist as a living being will always require energy, and that energy has to come from somewhere. You're never going to get "stuck" in a single state, because you are constantly affected by forces. It's only when you cease to be that you stop changing.