This is something that, while very much unpopular within the MLP fan community, I’d like to get off my chest:

Before it was revealed in “The Ending of the End” that Grogar was actually Discord in disguise, I was honestly less than enthusiastic about Grogar making an appearance so late into the series. Infuriated even.

When I saw him in “The Beginning of the End”, I was like, “Really? They couldn’t have him come in sooner than this?”

Every time I saw him, I found myself more peeved by him than intrigued. Before “The Ending of the End” aired, all Grogar ever did was angrily bark orders all the time. Even with the large background he had as a villain and his shows of power, I was not at all impressed by him. The time he showed his power in “Frenemies” also made him come off as a Gary Stu, and it made me question why he’d need his bell to begin with if he’s already powerful enough as it is. In addition to this, all I ever got out of him was that he was a mere one-dimensional, worthless, and annoying figurehead who hardly did anything important. With so much more focus being put on Sombra, Tirek, Cozy Glow, and Chrysalis anyway, I found myself questioning the character’s inclusion as a whole. Any time I’d take a sneak peek at an alternate take on “The Ending of the End” or Season 9 entirely where the real Grogar was in the picture, I’d still feel infuriated by him because he never did anything noteworthy or important before the episode came along.

In my opinion, having the real Grogar appear in Season 9 would openly waste and undermine his potential. He’s the kind of villain who’s worthy of appearing in more than just one season of a program for one, like Aku in “Samurai Jack” and Hacker in “Cyberchase”. He didn’t even have much development or screen time in Season 9 to be compelling, so frankly I found him to just simply be...well, there. He was present with no significant purpose whatsoever. Especially compared to the other bad guys.

All of this is exactly why I was happier with the twist, because to me...it openly saved Grogar from becoming what I’d consider to be the worst MLP antagonist of all time.

And before anyone asks...no, I do not hold any kind of grudge against Discord for doing what he did. I also thought the whole thing was actually very much something he’d do. It’s not the first time he’d actually try to help his friends in his own chaotic way only for his plans to backfire, resulting in him causing more harm than good.

This is something I fully agree with and believe is true. Discord is the guy who create this cockamamie plan to try and help one of his friends regain their confidence only Ford to backfire on him in one of the worst ways possible. The thing is he's still a friend trying to help in his own crazy way.

Let me ask, what villains did you like from the show? Aside from Cozy Glow, not a single one of them had any buildup before their big two-parter. So if you're suggesting that a single finale wouldn't be enough to give Grogar the payoff to his buildup, you must have really hated all the other villains save for Cozy.

Disagree simply because of what it does with Discord. HE STILL DOESN'T LEARN. the fact he nearly ended the world with the three of them means he should of had punishment.

A smart grogar would make sense. but making him Discord all along is just stupid.

7532002
IMO, the twist was good for Grogar (though not Grogar fans), but bad for Discord.

7532036

Let me ask, what villains did you like from the show?

It’s hard to pick which ones stood out to me the most because I enjoyed so many of them. But, the Storm King and Lord Tirek are definite favorites.

As for the other thing you said...I think you and I have different points of view as to what a build up is. A backstory is definitely very beneficial for a villain, but what they also need in order to be compelling is development and personality. And by development, I mean a sense of growth and change. Grogar hardly had any of those things throughout Season 9.

7532055
7532047
I disagree strongly because Discord at least tried to atone for his mistakes in part 2. But, I wouldn’t mind seeing a story about him that “The Ending of the End” could lead up to, mainly because I feel bad for Discord.

Agree that "Grogar" was uncompelling as presented and that the twist about him was an improvement, agree that Discord's plan played entirely to type (he never learns to do better, but nobody does), but disagree that Discord comes off at all sympathetic. Any sympathy he got from his pouting in part 2 went straight out the window when he gleefully helped execute a small child.

7532062
He didn’t “execute” Cozy. He just helped turn her to stone.

7532063
To-may-to, to-mah-to.

7532063
Which is all but execution and a gross imbalance when he's responsible for basically everything.

Locking someone in either a coma or in an isolation chamber for centuries(because god knows the Alicorn's are lazy and have a woefully disgusting out of sight out of mind philosophy) is tantamount to death.

Because ones crueler then any fate a villain has leveled out against them and the other won't have a person coming out the other end. It'll be a vegetable with only the barest resemblance to a thinking being much less the person you put in it.

The reason the twist is bad isn't because it's not the real Grogar.

It's bad because once again Discord is given a free pass to torture, mutilate or otherwise harm the entire world and given less then a slap on the wrist.

Irregardless of it playing to his character it is vehemently traitorous, dishonest, selfish, and cruel to let him off scott free while condemning the others and spits whole-hog in the face of everything the show attempted to use as a moral base in it's teachings.

It's not Friendship is Magic, it's Friends in High-places make me untouchable so Suck on it.

7532002
7532071
The series should have benefitted from an over-arching villain that dwelled within the shadows but at the same time was close enough to Princess Celestia to serve as the motivation for her actions that she took throughout the show in one way or another.

It would have been interesting to have it be someone who served as an antithesis to Celestias' ideals but was at the same time not truly seen as an adversary, but as a deterrent for something even greater in scope and danger than whatever other threat was seen. Princess Celestia commanding for Twilight Sparkle and her friends to take action against this being while also not bothering to question why it is a threat couldn't be seen as it being truly evil; but instead as a means of Celestia trying to save face and her own self-image as a mostly flawless leader. It would have transformed the narrative in such a way that as the series continued onwards, Princess Celestia would start to seem more and more colder in her dealings up until the final few episodes where she becomes the very villain of the piece in the end as Twilight now sees what sort of absolute monster and control freak the Sun Princess truly was.

Which in itself would have been hinted at towards the very beginning with how Celestia didn't apologize for the harsh treatment of Princess Luna or even apologizing for the 1000 years she spent on the Moon,and instead asked for her sister to accept her friendship. Seen further again in Season 2 where Celestia refused to entertain the idea that Cadence was being evil and that she and Twilight's friends didn't take her concerns into consideration even at the very end. And again in Season 4 where Celestia sings some hollow words about how Twilight Sparkle was now a Princess and that she "will play her part", which by the very end would hit differently with sinister overtones, followed up by the many times that Celestia refused to fight or to command the other Princesses into inaction because it was all a part of Twilight Sparkles' Destiny. A Destiny that by the very end, Twilight would be so sick and hateful of that she would do one of the only sane things and leave Celestia; secure in her own self and rejecting the notions of leadership and destiny altogether to choose her own path.

The idea of a protagonist going on a journey to becoming the villain is something that hasn't been seen too often, especially in My Little Pony. And if the final villain that Twilight Sparkle had to face was Celestia, I would be okay with it.

7532082
I’m...honestly not comfortable with the idea of Celestia being a villain in the long run. I love the character the way she is: A just, kind, and loving ruler.

7532085
"Just" went out the window at the end of Season 8, with the summary imprisonment of Cozy Glow in Tartarus. "Kind" and "loving" are doubtful as well, if not so definitively.

7532092
True-the fact she somehow was able to penpal Tirek whos basically on death row without parole or visitation rights really brings up more questions as to what was going on.

Putting her in Tartarus with him just removes the problem from the public eye and makes it easy to ignore how such a breach happened in the first place.

7532092
7532096
And yet the two of you ignore the fact that she maliciously endangered Equestria two times?

Just because Cozy’s a kid (or so we are meant to believe) doesn’t mean that she isn’t capable of causing havoc or is immune to becoming evil. Even a child can do something despicable.

7532099
A just punishment fits not just the crime, but the criminal. Cozy would have benefitted immensely just from being kept away from malign influences like Twilight and her friends. She didn't need to be locked in a cage underground, surrounded by the dregs of society and the wilderness.

7532099
By that logic Celestia would be in a similar state.

She lied and manipulated Twilight while also leaving her people ignorant and ill equipped to handle Nightmare Moon in a desperate and selfish bid to save Luna.

She stored a petrified enemy who was all but Omnipotent in a public garden with no methods to prevent escape-while it was no doubt surprising how easy it was for Discord to break free the fact he was left exposed and otherwise unguarded by any noteworthy methods does not reflect well.

She willingly allowed a massive breach in security and risk Canterlot for a single wedding, and avoided acknowledging the flaws not just in the cities defenses but in Chrysalis' disguise. While the latter is excusable to a degree the former is not when the one in question is supposedly a well versed and wise ruler.

She used the Crystal Empire as a bargaining chip to teach Twilight a lesson-and as shown it was blind luck that prevented that from being a catastrophe.

Her plan with Tirek was flawed, but admittedly the largest mistake was trusting Discord to deal with him unsupervised.

Celestia's track record as a ruler and key defender of her kingdom is lackluster-often by her own intentions to bolster/ teach Twilight a lesson she had dozens of methods to do so without endangering others or misleading her nation-and shows a decided lack of care for 99.99% of her people when it doesn't involve Twilight.

The fact she actively did anything to help the Empire after Flurry shattered the heart came as a surprise to everyone for a reason.

More so a child with manipulative tendencies, who was somehow able to contact/was contacted by Tirek, raises a question as to what the people or things guarding Tartarus are doing, if anything at all.

The fact they made no method to address this with Cozy the first time around and shunted her off to Tartarus out of spite, but expect Discord to be loved for doing worse, arguably makes the finally more insulting on principle.

7532085

And yet, despite that self-image, she is flawed and broken. Consider the simple fact that almost every single calamity that Twilight Sparkle had to face was caused directly or indirectly by Celestias' actions, it should have served to do something towards Twilights overall view of Celestia, to have her go from adoring fangirl seeking to please her mentor, to a measure of jaded resentment for basically foisting the entire Kingdom upon her shoulders without having any decent measure of training or understanding of how the kingdom is supposed to even function in the first place. If anything, by the time that Celestia says that she is retiring and planning to pass the torch onto Twilight Sparkle, it should have served as Twilights' wake-up call that Celestia had basically controlled her entire life up to this point for the goal of making her the ruler of Equestria based on the words of some flimsy prophecy or "Destiny".

There is a point to Destiny, but there is also a point to Choice. And it is often both working against one-another that defines the individual and as what can define how a "Chosen One" operates by.

Sometimes a Chosen One will see a fate lain out before them that conflicts with everything that they have strived for and seek a different path to victory, often one that comes at great personal sacrifice but at the end could be said that it was a Choice all their own to make.

Sometimes a Chosen One will see that they have been betrayed by those that they have been closest with and lash out at them for betraying them and their ideals at the critical moment, and wind up causing untold suffering for many others because of their following on a path towards Destiny.

Or that the Destiny the Chosen One must face is one that is too lofty and costly of a challenge that even the prophecy of that Destiny says it would be impossible to accomplish, and that those who follow in the path of that Destiny are doomed to failure because there is no way for it to even succeed. Thus the Chosen One ends up stepping away from Destiny altogether to pursue their own path on a road that they have chosen for themselves to follow.

Taking all of this into consideration, and from what has been seen of Twilight in regards to how an outsider views her relationship with Celestia, if anything; Twilight is nothing more than just a means to an end for Celestia to abandon all of her responsibilities and leave with her reputation intact enough. In short, Twilight is a Princess that earned everything she has because it was handed to her on a silver platter, not having to make any choices or meaningful sacrifices or showing any signs of selfishness or vulnerabilities that weren't from forces within Celestias' own control. In other words, Twilight Sparkle is nothing more than a doll... or rather a Puppet.

7532057
His efforts are not equal to his failure. And his joyous involvement in the stoning of the villains doesn't help his case.

7532082
I would rather write Celestia well than destroy her character. (Which is not to say she can't be wrong, or flawed, or have conflict with Twilight.)

7532092
Which is why those were both dumb.

7532122

I would rather write Celestia well than destroy her character. (Which is not to say she can't be wrong, or flawed, or have conflict with Twilight.)

Which is why those were both dumb.

Bit late for that, the given circumstances are what they are, the record is closed, and it is not flattering.

7532002
Yes, Grogar was a generic villain and we can agreed with that, but the twist is still handled rather poorly. We don't see any hints that Grogar was Discord from the beginning, and even if there are hints of it we didn't see it.

We know Discord try to help Twilight but he did it in a rather reckless way, here's the things he did throughout season nine:

* Releasing Tirek and Cozy Glow from Tartarus.
* Pairing the villains up to attack Equestria.
* Give them a dangerous artifact to make them even more powerful then before.
* Didn't tell his friends about his plan, not even to Fluttershy of all people.
* Almost gotten the Mane Six and Spike killed.
* Almost gotten Equestria in danger twice.

After all what Discord did, he get to decide the villains' punishment and gotten way without no consequences for his actions. I have to called bullshit on that.

7532128
You do know that, if you look closely, there are many signs of Grogar actually being Discord in Season 9. Right?

For one, they shared similar eyes colors and patterns, have similar eyebrows, and they both constantly left.

7532128
You forgot resurrecting King Sombra and indirectly responsible for his actions and killing the Tree of "Harmony".

7532130

and they both constantly left.

What is this referring to? Their both being deadbeat dads somehow?

Okay we're doing this again then. Twice, even, since you saw fit to copy/paste it into two groups.

When I saw him in “The Beginning of the End”, I was like, “Really? They couldn’t have him come in sooner than this?”

Can't imagine why, MLP was not the kind of show to build up a villain a season before he appeared. Don't get me wrong, I wish they had - Jackie Chan Adventures was great with this, having a tendency to introduce next season's villain as a one-off in the season before they appeared. But MLP was never that kind of show, so I can't imagine why you'd expect ti to happen.

Every time I saw him, I found myself more peeved by him than intrigued. Before “The Ending of the End” aired, all Grogar ever did was angrily bark orders all the time. Even with the large background he had as a villain and his shows of power, I was not at all impressed by him. The time he showed his power in “Frenemies” also made him come off as a Gary Stu

No it didn't, because you're using the term wrong. Power =/= Mary Sue.

and it made me question why he’d need his bell to begin with if he’s already powerful enough as it is.

And how powerful is that, exactly? Cozy Glow is just a kid (no matter how much some people try to insist otherwise), Chrysalis is under normal circumstances not exactly much of a powerhouse (even she was surprised at her ability to win a beam-o'-war with Celestia and directly attributed it not to her personal power but rather the love she'd gorged herself on from Shining Armor), and Tirek was notably not at the peak of his power or anything close to it.

Grogar's ability to throw around the Trio didn't impress upon me a whole lot of power, is my point.

In addition to this, all I ever got out of him was that he was a mere one-dimensional, worthless, and annoying figurehead who hardly did anything important.

Totally unlike, say, any other villain who'd ever appeared in the show before this point, sans Cozy Glow. She's literally the only villain who ever had any kind of build-up to her reveal in the show; everyone else was a one-off for their two-parter or a returning villain (Discord, Chrysalis, Sombra) but who nevertheless didn't get any buildup.

As for one-dimensional, again, you're describing literally every villain in the show apart from, maybe, Chrysalis, depending on how much you want to read into her "as Queen of the Changelings it is up to me to find food for my subjects!" line. But Nightmare Moon, Discord, Sombra, Tirek, Starlight Glimmer...villains in MLP tend to be one-dimensional.

At least Grogar as he was presented had two things going for him: he played his cards close to the chest, not revealing his grand scheme; and he was acutely aware of the power that he was up against and wasn't so arrogant as to think he could take on Twilight and her literal army of friends by himself. That alone made him more savvy than any other villain, and interesting as a result for what that could mean when he finally did act.

With so much more focus being put on Sombra,

Mothfucking what?

Tirek, Cozy Glow, and Chrysalis anyway, I found myself questioning the character’s inclusion as a whole. Any time I’d take a sneak peek at an alternate take on “The Ending of the End” or Season 9 entirely where the real Grogar was in the picture, I’d still feel infuriated by him because he never did anything noteworthy or important before the episode came along.

In fairness, you're not wrong. In equal fairness, that still doesn't excuse the twist, which depended upon manipulating the nostalgia of longtime MLP franchise fans only to pull the rug out from under us in a feeble attempt to be sUbVeRsIvE. If the plan was never to have Grogar be real, then Grogar shouldn't have been used at all, instead they should have just used some new OC villain, or even have the whole Legion of Doom be a plan concocted by Chrysalis or Sombra independently. Chrysalis in particular was actively looking for new minions last we saw her so the setup for that is there.

In my opinion, having the real Grogar appear in Season 9 would openly waste and undermine his potential. He’s the kind of villain who’s worthy of appearing in more than just one season of a program for one,

...okay I like the guy and my second-longest story on this site features him as the main villain throughout and I wrote it during like Season 3 or the hiatus to Season 4 or something, but no. Grogar deserved to be real, but he didn't need to be a big long multi-season plot either. In his original appearance he was scary, threatening, yes, but let's not play him up too much.

He was present with no significant purpose whatsoever. Especially compared to the other bad guys.

Yes, he had no purpose, because he wasn't real. But had he been real he could have served any number of purposes had an actually talented writer been writing the show.

And before anyone asks...no, I do not hold any kind of grudge against Discord for doing what he did.

Ah.

You and me? We can't be friends.

I also thought the whole thing was actually very much something he’d do.

Clearly you don't play D&D, or if you do you don't DM, or else you'd know how much of a seething rage "bUt It'S wHaT mY cHaRaCtEr WoUlD dO!" can send people and how weak, pathetic, selfish, and worthless an excuse it is. What a character can do and what they should do are two different things. Discord's plan undid six seasons worth of development and becoming a better person. It demonstrated that his most fundamental problem - seeing himself surrounded by tools and not people - is not solved, and by the end of the series it remains unsolved. He's a selfish, sociopathic prick.

It’s not the first time he’d actually try to help his friends in his own chaotic way only for his plans to backfire, resulting in him causing more harm than good.

You're right, it's not the first time, and that's part OF THE FUCKING PROBLEM, ISN'T IT?!

I'm sorry, but even this far out from the finale, thinking about it still makes me a bit ABSOLUTELY LIVID.

7532130

For one, they shared similar eyes colors and patterns, have similar eyebrows, and they both constantly left.

Just because they share the same features doesn't mean that they are connected somehow. Considering the fact that outside of the pair of them, we haven't actually seen another one of eithers' kind in the show. And people can leave for their own reasons besides just going to assume another identity. That's why we have bathrooms and sports teams. I'd have chalked up to Grogar being too lazy and incompetent to actually do anything with his power beyond showing it off to intimidate his potential allies. A number of Supervillains all claim to have some sort of master plan, but with the track record of this show; everything seems to always be at the last minute in planning for everything.

7532015
With friends like him, who needs enemies?

7532138
No need to be rude.

7532135

Discord's plan undid six seasons worth of development and becoming a better person. It demonstrated that his most fundamental problem - seeing himself surrounded by tools and not people - is not solved, and by the end of the series it remains unsolved. He's a selfish, sociopathic prick.

Character stagnation, regression, or development in entirely new and worse ways is. . . not a problem that was unique to Discord in FiM.

7532140
Sorry, ignore that previous comment. You was pointing out about the Sombra thing that I left out.

7532143
No. But, one, no one else's got people functionally killed; and two, this was the fucking finale. This was the episode that they absolutely had to get right. Instead I'm struggling to think of what I'd do to make the episode worse that still falls within the realm of something that would be believably written for MLP.

Legitimately a hackneyed sunshine-and-rainbows all the Trio and Grogar (who is real) are all reformed ending would not have been worse, because as saccharine and cheap as it was it at least wouldn't have been so badly atonal with the show's central message and themes. I mean, it wouldn't have been good. But it would have been better.

7532145
"You can get away with anything as long as you have friends in high places" and other protagonist-centered morality is also not atonal with FiM's messages and themes, going all the way back to the pilot.

7532146
Prior to the finale it at least felt unintentional, a side-effect of bad writing or not thinking things through because that's almost certainly what it was, plus at least there seemed to be some progress on that front with the Season 7 finale and showing that Twilight was unquestionably wrong for blindly trusting Star Swirl, who was himself perhaps well-intentioned but still wrong to have done what he did and assumed what he did about Stygian.

But come Haber in Season 8 and his desire to be sUbVeRsIvE and, again, I literally cannot think of a worse way to end the series.

7532150
FiM finally going mask-off about its mean-spiritedness and regressiveness was a good thing, actually.

While a bit behind-the entire reason the Bell exists is a throwback to the original Grogar.

He wasn't by any means helpless without it but the Bell of Tambelon was effectively his Phylactery.

The city itself and him were tied to one another, and the shadow realm they were both banished too, and the bell acted as a tether-both for him to journey to and from the accursed realm and necropolis to the would of the others and for him to drag the city back to the surface.

Grogar without his bell is...odd, to say the least when his character is fully discussed, but it would've also been an easy way to say he'd been effectively stranded in Equestria with only a fraction of his original power at his disposal and left to skulk and plan.

Like...he wasn't Discord level reality warping in G1 but he was borderline up there because he was much more sadistic and focused on his end goal, and playing off him being a threat-even for one season-because he was smart, and not prone to foolhardy gloating(NM, Sombra once revived, Chrysalis, ect) or keeping promises that clearly put his plan in jeopardy(Tirek) could've made a villain who's plans are predominantly about bringing his empire back and keeping it there hell and high water a somewhat well thought out antagonist.

It still wouldn't have been great, but it would've made a somewhat better idea then Discords twist.

Hell, to play into Equestria not always being right like Starswirl, they could've actually had Grogar be less villainous and more just an opposition, slowly working at the cracks in the three(or fours) shells until he reformed them the long way round.

Not as magically redeemed people but stable people aware of their mistakes, and while not regretting them, able to move on and now exist with Grogar as compatriots in a now raised, and wholly mundane, just-another-country at the end of the day Tambelon.

It's more then the show could give outright but at the same time it planted seeds that almost made that seem like what they were doing.

I agree with 7532145 in that the saccharine ending of everyone being reformed isn't better by a wide margin, and was to a degree the expected path, while still being more in line with the show.

I also agree that, too a large degree, the "Friends in High places" motif become more and more prominent towards the end while then being almost countered by Starswirl being a fool.

7532156
This is a level of cynicism that I am not prepared to deal with today.

7532056
That doesn't make any sense. The other villains didn't have any of that either until their big finale, so why are you acting like Grogar should have? It would be illogical even if your take on his characterization up to that point weren't downright false.

7532057
no, aboslutely not. this was his third chance and still does somethign like this. Frankly the whole season is poor. as someone mentioned earlier is that Twilight has ZERO training in ruling a kingdom. yes she is a good leader but leader doesn't always mean ruler. if they had mentioned a few times where Twilight was not in episode that she was getting training to rule since season 3 the transfer of power is less stupid, though Luna does get screwed. she gets mearly 9 years of ruling since her return. I get Celestia wants to stop but she isn't being fair to either Twilight or Luna. and frankly none should retire. if both sisters had issues ruling each others domian what chance does Twilight have? and her friends will die in a few decades so minus Spike completely alone in ruling.

7532062

when he gleefully helped execute a small child

Hey hey no, that's not fair.
He was the one who suggested it. Then he did it.

7532002

in my humble opinion I think the portrayal of grogar was more strategic by the writers than anything else. for years king sombra was the go to "generic evil guy" in the fandom and yet they wanted to flesh him out. so how do you flesh him out without depriving the fandom of their generic evil guy? Simple, introduce a new one for the fandom to project on.

that said I find a lot of the real Grogar's characterization to be extremely subtle and hard to pick up on without nitpicking details. Without rambling for hours about pointless details basically Grogar seems to be the end conclusion of what Midnight sparkle would have become if not stopped from going to equestria. Why that conclusion? Consider this, what's the functional difference between the bell and scitwi's magic absorbing amulet.

7532135

Manipulating the nostalgia of longtime MLP franchise fans only to pull the rug out from under us in a feeble attempt to be sUbVeRsIvE. If the plan was never to have Grogar be real, then Grogar shouldn't have been used at all, instead they should have just used some new OC villain.

But had he been real he could have served any number of purposes had an actually talented writer been writing the show.

Amen sister. F*CK The whole 2017-2018 Subversion Craze everyone was going through. Just because Ruined Johnson did it in "The Last Straw" and was praised for it by Spielberg's talentless Coffee Girl, a Coffee Girl who only got as far as she did in Hollywood by graffiti'ing her name all over the Producer and Executive Producer credits in every movie she interned with underneath the Spielberg and Lucas banners: doesn't mean jack shit.

We could have gotten an actual world-ending threat that wasn't a single villain but an absolute monster that couldn't be outright reasoned with, and the only way to fight against it would involve having to work together with someone that was once close to Celestia between the events of Sunset Shimmers' departure and Princess Lunas' return, a character that would have been built up and hinted at existing but never really seen, but had left their mark within the show at some point or other.

It could have been the force responsible for causing the animals to become skittish around Fluttershy in the Grand Galloping Gala.

The force behind why the area around Chrysalis' castle looks like it was exploded and for creating the anti-Magic material the throne was made from.

And was the very same being spying on Twilight Sparkle and her friends when they were in The Castle of Two Sisters.

Tracking down this being to have them help save Equestria reveals that they are willing to lend their aid to Twilight, but only if Princess Celestia says that she is sorry for everything she did. When appearing before Canterlot, Celestia immediately flies into a rage and begins to attack the newcomer feverishly saying that she banished this individual from Canterlot and that she is a threat to Equestria greater than the oncoming monster. The newcomer argues back and unleashes advanced golden magic that seemed to nullify all other Magical frequencies around herself with the only one unaffected by it being Celestia as the pair of them trade blasts at one-another with the newcomer being on the defensive while Celestia does everything in her power to try destroying the newcomer despite her not having done anything to warrant this behavior. The monster is a foreground element, but the main source of conflict as the antagonist would be Princess Celestia and aspects of her own past she refused to confront or apologize for in the belief in her being Right about everything and being dedicated towards Destiny which the newcomer rejects in favor of Choice.

Who the heck is this Ohvist guy?

7532183
It is considered rude to talk about someone behind their back, especially within a forum page that he is partaking in.

Aside from that, what is it that you would like to know about me that caught your interest in the first place on this Forum?

7532115
Well said Ohvist. Well said. :)

7532182
Yay, no. Grogar would’ve still been the worst antagonist ever if he turned out to be real in the ninth season. And making Celestia the villain would be a stupid course of action to take.

7532170
No need to act immature.

7532196
how is that immature?

7532196