The Good HiE List 7,154 members · 462 stories
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I've noticed, in a lot of HiEs that most human characters are portrayed as extremely submissive and or cowardice. Why do you think that is?

I've noticed that too and always wondered why myself. Maybe new world new species type of thing.

Of what I seen some are Teens, uhh, I don't actually know why, that would something you ask author but my guess would be that their scared, don't actually know how to fight, that and the fact that Celestia, who controls the SUN may or may not be against/hostile towards them. Also, got link to one of the stories you read that had a coward/submissive displaced

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Also I noticed it too and it's pissing me off, the
Most stories I read that have coward/submissive displaced doesn't Give a reason WHY and it's annoying as hell

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One would think that but, when have humans been passive to the unknown. Usually it's shoot first and ask questions later.

TinMan #6 · Mar 6th, 2020 · · 3 ·

Here's what most don't understand about the human condition. We are not a violent species, we are a hyper-vigilant species. That means if you could pose a threat, then everyone is against you until you've proven otherwise.

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The, uh... let's call them majority of HIEs are very usually about self-fantasies. To this effect, you will see two types of HIE appearing:
1. The 'macho' "I'm so tough and powerful/smart/evolved/etc that I'm going to protect/slay all these ponies," type.
2. The submissive type.

The first one you get because it's more often than not a self-fulfillement power fantasy or an author confusing violence/power/action with interest. The majority of Displaced, for example.

The second type is there because some other type of authors have the fantasy of living in an utopian world like Equestria or want to make a point about how Equestria has better rules, thinking, laws, principles, etc. However, the failure here is that instead of reinforcing, arguing, or convincing the reader for these ideas, they go for the far easier solution. instead of doing the hard work, they have the HIE instead simply... worship or be convinced or be fearful, or anything at all really, the side that the author is rooting for, as a surrogate for how the readers should feel. The pony world is better or there is nothing to miss in the human world. Why? Doesn't matter. The simplest of broad excuses ("There's so much WAR!" is the most popular one) and it's done. There is no counterargument, no exploration. Just simple acceptance.

It is, in a way, a variation of the Worf Effect. You know, how instead of showing in comics how dangerous a new foe is by presenting him as a character and fighter, they take a shortcut by having him defeat Wolverine, and very often Wolverine will fall prey to tricks and powers he has seen a bajillion times so far, but that doesn't matter. The point isn't to raise the new character by showing why he is competent but to drop everyone else down a level instead. That's our submissive HIE. Why is the pony world better? Well, the only answer the author most usually has is that "I just like it," and so they don't answer it. Instead, the HIE accepts it as gospel, and through the HIE so should the readership.

Well, also, sometimes people think that the only way to get girls or have romance is for the guy to have no spine and whiteknight everything, so there you go.

Mostly for Character Development.

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We are also a very adaptable species so while we might seem submissive on the outside on the inside we may be very cautious and just taking our time to determine if something really is or isnt a threat.
Also i dont think of any of them as cowards.....i tend to see them as more passive. HiE stories fit in w the isekai genre of light novels/manga/anime. One common element of a lot of isekai MCs is that they tend to be the one that was/is picked on in school or theyre the outcast or otaku or NEETs. Basically ppl who tend to be pacifists or passive-aggressive. So when you think about it it isnt that odd that you see a lot of HiE stories w an MC thats passive....though youre forgetting the fact that the vast majority of these same characters will fight and kill or die if necessary once they have found their reason to fight. The isekai genre is really good at that.

Because people don’t know how to write headstrong characters without also making them jerks or stupid. So they end up writing passive characters that are stupid through inaction instead.

Theres a group called "humans are superior" where the exact opposite happens.

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Don't you think that, that the group was created for a reason?
People probably were tired of constantly finding submissive and or cowardice humans in stories they were reading, so they wanted a way to filter them out

That doesn't mean you will find that way only masterpieces but it gives you bigger chances for finding something you like

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There also is a group called "The Group Where The Human Isn't A Doormat" so this isn't some sort of isolated incident. This is a thing in this fandom and I'm wondering why?

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This is going to sound extraordinarily negative and it's not pointed toward you. But the tl;dr is I enjoy the show (MLP) and hate myself. That's why ponies are superior to humans.

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Now there's a guy who thinks things through. Your wall of text made me think through what I've done in my stories and whether I've fallen into any of these meta pitfalls. I'd like to believe I didn't, but hey, I made it, so my opinion is probably opinionated.

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I enjoy the show (MLP) and hate myself. That's why ponies are superior to humans.

Looks like you found the answer to your question. :twilightsmile:

In my HiE, the protagonist looks at Equestria as this superior idealized place (although he favors the mane 6 over the place they're in) but he comes to realize that it's not perfect. He still likes it, and enjoys being there, but he's figured out that the grass always appears greener on the other side.

I think it’s because they’re normally written by writers who are overly passive in real life. I think the worse part is when they start talking about how bad and evil humanity was cause they fought wars and littered the planet. I just find it kinda cringe.

The thing that infuriates me is when they're SO passive that they don't even ask questions or seek any kind of understanding of things. They just make stupid, incorrect assumptions, maybe wonder in their head if they understood or not, and then NEVER ASK.
There's passive, and below that there's being a sickening worthless doormat, and then, even lower, there's being WHATEVER THAT THING IS THAT I JUST DESCRIBED. Every time there's some big problem because they were too mindlessly idiotic to just ASK A SIMPLE, NON-AGGRESSIVE QUESTION, I want to beat them to death with their own legs.

Passive? No. They're very aggressive. Aggressively IGNORANT. It takes active, relentless pursuit to be THAT un-curious. They are INHUMANLY, UNRELATABLY uninterested in actually comprehending their surroundings or what other people are saying. It actually breaks my SoD every time it happens, it's so inhuman and unrelatable.
The worst part is when it's obviously the author's mental failing and not the character's, because the OTHER characters ALSO never ask follow-up questions or ask for clarification, and everything sucks as a result.

A pony says "We all serve the Grok once a week."
A normal human asks "What's the Grok, and how do you serve?" and gets the answer "The Grok is a local creature that helps us with our crops, we serve it by doing various chores that are hard for it to do because it can't move very well".
Waste-of-Space the HiE says, PURELY INTERNALLY AND NOT OUT LOUD EVER, "The Grok must be their vengeful deity, and they must serve it the corpses of aliens like me, even though that goes against everything I think I know about them as a species and a society! I'd better do this series of really stupid things in response!".

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I didn’t mean to sound hostile, I agree completely.

I think a lot of this comes to one of three things. One, sometimes people are just misanthropes, looking to Equestria as some sort of utopia that we as evil and impure creatures could never achieve. Others are just trying to tell you about the world, the character being more of a window than a living creature. Ponies will treat them as a living thing, but they may as well be a window or door. Finally, there’s fear. Ponies are terrifying on a power scale if I’m honest, most merely not having the disposition to use that power. If I was surrounded by ponies who change the weather on a whim, can conjure matter or disintegrate it, and can pull a House by themselves, i’d Probably appear passive from the outside while trying to figure out how to protect myself from these psychopaths.

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I would agree with you up until the last part. The ponies power scale isn't terrifying it just runs off of cartoon logic that's why it's so wildly inconsistent. They do what they do, not because they're powerful it's just what the plot calls for. That's why in one episode Big Mac can pull a house by himself but in another episode he can barely hold up a large cake. So if you use that cartoon Logic power scale of the show at face value the story ends up looking really lazy because you're using "magic" as one big MacGuffin or deus ex machina.

In all honesty Magic in Equestria should be able to effects humans in one of three ways. First it doesn't like at all, which is my opinion. Second it affects humans the same way as it affects everything else and manifests itself however the way human magic would manifest itself I assume like an earth pony or Minotaur. Third it gives them cancer... which isn't very conducive to a long story.

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In other words, if they know it should be realistic it is, big mac was not completly there with the house, pinkie is pinkie.
When rainbow consentrate the rainboom is hard, but if just flying no problem.

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You got doormat (the scent stories basicly) then you got bend over backwards like one where the mc is son of celestia and humans are slaves. He says hes gonna help humans but unless something afect him first he does jack, and he is a john doe where the m6 in both worlds fall for him
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I have yet to see an story where they actualy improve and not getting worse over time.

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It is, in a way, a variation of the Worf Effect. You know, how instead of showing in comics how dangerous a new foe is by presenting him as a character and fighter, they take a shortcut by having him defeat Wolverine, and very often Wolverine will fall prey to tricks and powers he has seen a bajillion times so far, but that doesn't matter. The point isn't to raise the new character by showing why he is competent but to drop everyone else down a level instead.

*EqG 1 Sunset Shimmer has flagged this comment for bullying/personal attacks*

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I don't mind it in the beginning, new world, new situation and all, but it's annoying when the character never grows.

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I think we all can level with the behavior, when it's reasonable. But most of the time it's not, most of the time it's a "grown man" coming to Equestria and acting like he's on a planet full of Xenomorphs.

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I'm working on showing both reasons why Equestria is better, but also worse than Earth, if you care to give my fics a try. I've structured both to fall into that 'tried and true' movie-style story telling. Only with more details and situations that can be fleshed out. Dunno how you feel about human turned pony, but I'd rather be about the human mind/condition rather than body. The human body doesn't serve any purpose beyond xenophobia or fetishism among certain ponies imo. I think it's much more interesting for our protagonist to show the ups and downs of being a ponyvilian.

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