I... I...

I just don't like the very concept.

2476609 There is not. Hell is a place completely without God. Hell, is eternal death.

2476616 But would a place completely without God be torturous?

2476624 There's no way we can really know, no man has experienced eternal death. But I imagine it wouldn't be and would be at the same time.

2476624

I think he means as opposed to the Dante's inferno type of tortures Hell.

Jesus said there was, and I have been show enough proof that he is God, so I would have to answer in the affirmative

2476609
No, because none of it exists at all.

Even if it did, I highly doubt any God who is "all perfect" and "omnibenevolent" would be egotistical enough to doom billions of people to eternal suffering just because they didn't jerk him off constantly.

Edit: Behold, for I am the divider!

2476609

I think that simply an eternal separation from God or annihilation are more likely.

Have you ever read or watched A Christmas Carol?

The ghosts of the dead bearing eternal regret for not helping others when they could have gave me a chilling and thought-provoking insight into what simply not being able to make amends would be like, after seeing God's glory, even without any physical pain.

2476609
Yes there is.

And yes, it sucks. I know a lot of people, good people (by human standards anyway) that my beliefs tell me will go to hell when they die or when Christ returns, whichever comes first.
But that is the thing about the truth. Sometimes it sucks. Sometimes it seems hopeless and sometimes there's nothing that can be done.
But while those people are still on this earth, there is a chance to escape that fate.

Yes, there is a hell and it is Eternal Torment.

Mark 9:47-48
47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, tear it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and to be thrown into hell, 48 where their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.

Here is a site that has some more information;The Hell there is!

2476609

I don't think you're quite meant to like it.

Hell seems to be a consequence of immortality and free will.

The word "good" has three meanings, metaphysical, natural, and moral. Metaphysical good is one of the so-called transcendentals; it is convertible with being and describes being in its relationship to will. All beings are good at least insofar as they exist. Things may also be naturally good in the sense of functioning properly in accordance with their final cause. We speak of moral good in relation to the disposition or action of a rational agent, i.e., a being with a free will. Moral goods and evils originate in the will, moral evils being willful acts not in accordance with the final cause of the rational agent. When we speak of evil, whether natural or moral, we are speaking of a deficiency, a lack of some good that should be present. So evil has no existence in itself, but is rather an absence of good. To put it as Pseudo-Dionysius does, evil has neither being nor non-being, which means both that it does not exist and also that it has no potency for existence, since all being comes from God.

if the first cause and ground of all being, that is, God, wants a personal friendship with free moral agents like you and me, that leaves us with two options—to accept or reject such a friendship. If we by the methods of natural theology hash out the details of what a necessary being must be like, we eventually come up with words like simple, infinite, perfect, with essence equal to existence, etc. Because our wills, intellects, and desires are all directed toward goods, to have such a being would be to have the intellect perfected, the will perfectly aligned to the good, and the desires fulfilled and thus lulled.

To reject such a being would be to turn away from the source of good, the very ground of existence, the ultimate end of all our desires, and thus from all good. It would be to yearn for and head toward utter destruction and dissolution. If dissolution of a human being is possible, then I suppose someone headed in that direction could cease to exist. If cessation of existence is not possible, then the only possibility would be some existence deprived entirely of good, except the good of existence itself. Such an existence we might call hell.

That of course leaves the question of whether absolute destruction of a human being is possible. At any rate, as a matter of speculation, it seems to me that if God made human souls to be immortal, then removing them utterly from existence would probably not be possible for him, as deprivation of existence is an evil, and an infinitely good being cannot originate evil.

The short answer is that, for an immortal free-willed being, two alternatives exist: to strive toward and achieve ultimate good, or to run away from good and lose as much good as it is possible to lose.

2476671 lol

2476609
I've always been in the self-imposed camp. Hell isn't an inflicted punishment, it's a state of being.
Hell isn't necessarily bad, but it's not as enjoyable, and even if it is, the enjoyment is happiness or pleasure, not true fulfillment.
A truly omnibenevolent God wouldn't have any sort of eternal punishment, or even any punishment, especially for finite wrongdoings, although I suppose this does stem from my personal belief that justice isn't necessarily good.

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Matthew 5: 38-48
Besides this, I can't imagine a hypocritical God, especially concerning matters of morality.

No.

2476671
There are punishments for wrong actions.

2476738

God's nature can be a bit vexing as perfect Good, perfect, Justice, and perfect Mercy.

Jesus showed humility on earth, but staunchly stood for God's glory.

The central message of those verses was to love those who harm you, and treat them better than they deserve.

In doing this, God is glorified and they may catch a glimpse of his love for them.

God repeatedly states that judgement is his to make, and despite his great love for us and desire for all to be saved, he will judge the world.

However, he has shown us great mercy, which was paid for by Jesus' death.

2476931
That's fine, but not eternal ones, or do you think it would be fair to send me to a place of eternal torture if I stopped believing that you exist?

Gotta say man, that's pretty twisted.

2476609 In the most basic possible way I can describe, hell is the absence of what is in heaven: God's eternal love.

I picture hell kind of like this...

Where as heaven is like... beyond words and all earthly images. And, honestly, I feel like I would be insulting the Holy Spirit if I even attempted to sing the praises of what awaits us in eternal salvation.

2476959

do you think it would be fair to send me to a place of eternal torture

No, but then again I'm not a God. I haven't created the world, crafted the personalities of every single person. That's like not acknowledging that your parents exist times a million.

Also, it's possible that even in Hell, people continue to sin. They curse God's name in anger instead of begging for forgiveness.

2476609 Hell is where the retards go

2477062
So you don't think it's super egotistical to cast people into never-ending suffering because "hey, he made it," and you're okay with them suffering because SOME people MAY be pissed off at God for what is an irreversible overreaction to a skepticism HE could easily solve by saying,"what up, bitches, it's me."

Don't you dare tell me it's because he doesn't like messing with free will, because that's a massive load of shit. All God ever does is mess with free will in the Bible stories by constantly announcing his existence.

If you are honestly okay with any of that then you're a bad person, plain and simple.

I'm not going to argue further with you, because this is going to be nothing more than a circle jerk by the end of this.

You're messed up, and so is your religion.

~toodles~

2476609
2476774
2476738
2476959

Hell is a very real place. Revelations talks about the "Lake of Burning Sulfur, where the Devil and his army (doesn't actually say 'army', but it uses lots of different words that I'm too lazy to type at 1:00 AM) will be tormented forever and ever."

And, yes, this DOES include those who don't believe that Christ is God and that He came to die in order to ave us.

HOWEVER.

This isn't hypocritical, not in the the slightest.

Y'see, God is holy. He CANNOT, under ANY circumstances, EVER, allow sin to enter his presence. So He created Hell for Satan, sin, and Satan's demons.

Since God can't allow sin, and EVERYONE has sinned (For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. Romans 3:23), He HAS to send us to Hell. He doesn't want to, but His holiness forces Him too (For example: Take Celestia and Luna. Luna tried to rebel against Celestia. Celestia had to send Luna to the moon. Did she want to? No. Did she have to? Yes. Did she still love Luna? Absolutely. Same concept with God).

So, God sends us to Hell. It's our punishment (For the wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23a)...

Or... God finds another solution...

...Which He did (...but the gift of God is eternal life. Romans 6:23b).

God gave His only Son, perfect in EVERY aspect, to die the death that we couldn't! And although Hell is a very real place and people are going there... God gave us a way out, a way to escape it! I saw somewhere above that someone said that basically, 'If Hell's real, then An omniloving God is hypocritical for sending people there."

But if God were hypocritical, would have he given us a way to escape? Freely, at that?

2476671 Dude, God is the most laid back, forgiving, merciful guy ever.
In the beginning he had one law which boiled down to "do not disobey me by doing this because this fruit can kill you and the only reason why I created it in the first place is that so you would not be slaves in paradise and could have the OPTION of disobeying me. Even though I know that means I will eventually have to die if you do disobey but i love you so much Im going to do this anyways"

Then when they broke that he gave them TEN (technically 11 but w/es), and then he asked them to just follow those and people messed up again! so what did he do he came down got tortured to death and then CRUCIFIED so that we would no longer be considered guilty under that law as long as we accept Christ in our heart. Then we only have to do our best to follow these next TWO laws and if we fail we are forgiven.
Love your neighbor as you love thyself/ Love others as I have loved you
and
Love the lord your God with all your heart.

and for a matter of FACT God is real. I know he is as do many others.

2476676

The ghosts of the dead bearing eternal regret for not helping others when they could have gave me a chilling and thought-provoking insight into what simply not being able to make amends would be like, after seeing God's glory, even without any physical pain.

That would be a negative afterlife I wouldn't call cruel.

2477127
According to your religion God invented sin.

2476714

if the first cause and ground of all being, that is, God, wants a personal friendship with free moral agents like you and me, that leaves us with two options—to accept or reject such a friendship.

To reject such a being would be to turn away from the source of good, the very ground of existence, the ultimate end of all our desires, and thus from all good.

The short answer is that, for an immortal free-willed being, two alternatives exist: to strive toward and achieve ultimate good, or to run away from good and lose as much good as it is possible to lose.

There is the way to be completely oblivious, which is how I would describe a majority of the world's nonchristian population. I have not heard of any people who see the truth in Christ and reject it.

I did like some ideas C.S. Lewis presented in the last Narnia book.

2477129
Creationism as a whole is a theory, not a fact.

Just like Muslims know for a FACT that you are wrong.

Or how Jews know for a FACT that you are wrong.

God isn't forgiving at all, unless you get down on all fours and suck his feet. Because according to him, the mere act of mild skepticism is detestable. The idea that he would hold something committed by two morons thousands of years ago, over the head of the entire human race, while barely providing any evidence of his existence is proof of that.

2477145 Where on earth (or Equestria) did I say that?

Well, you clearly thought I did, so I'll clear that up as well.

No, God did not 'create' sin. Sin is the absence of doing what God wants (say it's unfair all you want, but think of a child going against a father. Funny thing is, that's what we are).

Although, I can't say anyone 'created' sin, as it is simply the opposite of God, the very first instance of sin was when Lucifer rebelled against God, thus becoming Satan.

It's just... people seem to talk about Hell in terms of unimaginable suffering and pain an infinite magnitude worse than any human being in history has inflicted. I would be hard-pressed to name anyone in history who would deserve such a thing.

If the Christian God exists, I would think him to welcome repentant and good-hearted nonbelievers and reject Christians that only give their faith lip service.

2477181
If God created everything, and knows everything then he would understand how to circumvent the existence of sin. He knew exactly what Satan would do, as well as how to prevent it, and yet he didn't.

God created sin, and it is highly hypocritical of him to deny his creations access to heaven for interacting with yet another one of his creations.

2477173

Just like Muslims know for a FACT that you are wrong.

Or how Jews know for a FACT that you are wrong.

Couldn't say it better.

2477110

You seem WAAY to emotional over something you don't believe in. No need for the personal attacks.

Also I see that you're backing out of the debate, fair enough. You obviously can't seem to handle anyone going against your opinion so I'll leave you alone with your very angry thoughts.

2477145

No he didn't.

If you create a law do you create law breaking.

2477278
Nice job trying to look coolm8, but I think you know as well as I do that this would amount to nothing.

I've already seen you in an argument, it's not impressive.

2477287
You do if you're supposedly the creator of literally everything.

2477298
Where in the Bible did it say God created EVERYTHING?

2477173 If the mere act of mild skepticism then why did he keep sending people to talk to us about him? Why did he specifically have the Jews keep such extensive records and why did he have the NT authors gather so many witnesses for Christs revival? It was to give evidence. In fact multiple bible passages tell us to gather knowledge and to learn as much as we can.
Also Modern Judiasm doesnt believe in christ because of the talmud which is not inspired by God but by fallible Rabbis. Medieval Judaism started as a reaction to Christ because they dont want him to be the messiah.
Islam is for people who want to be enslaved in an oppressive Theocratical religion where the god is vile, capricious, hypocritical, consistently inconsistent on nearly every issue and chronicles how a man had a hallucination and gradually went power mad. For petes sake Muhammed the "pinnacle of humanity" claimed that MARY the mother of Jesus was MARIAM the sister of MOSES. You can argue that all of the miraculous stuff in the bible is just fanciful nothings but at least it is a reliable historical text even if you choose to take those things out. Mohammed also penetrated a 9 year old girl and had 11 wives even though he himself laid the law that only 4 could be had but nooo hes the exception (starting sarcasm) because because uh... IM GREATER THAN JESUS yeah thats why he even led Jesus in prayer! see Mohammed is GREAT. He also flew from Mecca to Jerusalem, met with Moses, Christ and all the other prophets who then bowed down to him and God laid him as the newest prophet. Because apparently Christ did not die on the cross even though they had a bunch of witnesses saying he did and all the Quran has is claims that cannot be proven.

Basically, Christianity asks for people to dispute its claims and to accept them if they eventually see the truth. It opens itself up to being wrong by making scientific claims and historical claims. If you can prove those wrong than that can prove the Bible in its WHOLE wrong.
Whereas with the Quran whenever it makes claims such as the Earth being like a rug and held up by 4 pillars and how Mary the mother of Christ was Mariam the mother of Moses it says "kill the infidel" or as many Muslims who dont follow the Quran as it should be followed say "I will have faith it is true".
The bible never asks you to have faith without offering evidence that can be proven wrong. It gives evidence that can be tested and researched to see if its true or not.

2477127
If God cannot be in the presence of sin, does that mean that sin is powerful enough to drive God away? I think not, I happen to find the idea preposterous. Indeed, a benevolent God would forgive us of our sins rather than punish us for them.
Besides which, if God cannot be in the presence of sin, than what was Jesus doing with the tax collectors, the prostitutes, the drunkards and swindlers? If one takes the statement "God cannot be in the presence of sin" to be true, then these people have either not sinned, or Jesus is not God.
Now, if these people have indeed not sinned, so be it, but considering that Jesus on multiple occasions associated, even forgave, adulterers and thieves, and as I can't imagine that you would think of either thievery or adultery as good, I'd say this is not the case.
Furthermore, Christianity by definition is the consideration of Jesus as divine, so the second option is completely out of the window for the purposes of this discussion.
This leaves us in the uncomfortable position of either God being malevolent, or an inflicted Hell not existing.

2477306
Oh, I dunno, how 'bout John 1:3?

Ya know, the part of the Bible where it states that all things were created through him, and nothing was created without?

2477321

That was referring to the Physical creation of the Earth, not the concept of sin.

God is only guilty of giving people free will. Is free will a bad thing?

2477197
Yes. God knows everything. So, yes, it stands to reason that God knew Lucifer was going to rebel. And God probably did warn Lucifer about what was gonna happen. He IS fair and just God. But, hypothetically, did Lucifer listen? Because of his pride and lust for power, clearly not.

Again, God did not 'create' sin. Like I just said, sin is the opposite of God, thus, just kind of always being there.

As for Him denying humans into heaven, think of it this way. Let's take names out for a second.

There's a judge in a courthouse. One day, this judge has a defendant that's CLEARLY guilty of homicide. Big twist, the defendant's his kid. Now, the judge/dad still loves his kid, but the kid's guilty of his charges. The dad, as a judge (if he's actually a good judge) has to give a verdict: Guilty. The dad, no matter how much he wants to drop the charges because he loves his child, as a judge has to sentence the child to their punishment for breaking the law.

Is the dad/judge hypocritical for doing this? I mean, he loves his kid, right? But, since he's a judge, he has to make the correct verdict, even if it hurts.

So, why is then, when God is put into a similar situation (albeit, on a MUCH larger scale), He's branded a hypocrite?

2477317
Any recent evidence?

2477334
No, it isnt, it straight up says everything.

Nice try, though.

2477347

Everything as in the Earth, the sea, the air.

Also please do not dodge my question, is free will a bad thing?

2477351
No, free Will isn't bad.

And how do you know what everything means?

2477338
Because jail isn't eternal suffering, it's an often temporary place of incarceration, and believe it or not, I'm referring to people who simply don't believe, not murderers and rapists.

2477341 In regards to what... I said alot of things in that post of which one are you referring to?

2477402
For the existence of God as a whole. Not to discredit your religion or anything, but stories from thousands of years ago, when almost anything that happened was considered an act of God for most religions.

2477318 Aye... 2:00 AM is too late for my brain to think about this.

I can try, but my arguments at this point are probably going to be crap (and I've had to urine for the past hour, gosh dangit!).

And I KNOW I'm going to be missing some points with this next response, but here I go anyway.

Now, I know I said 'God cannot be etc.'. I really should've said 'God, in all his glory, cannot etc.'

Because, let's be honest, when Jesus was human, He wasn't in all his glory. Everyone would've died otherwise because (like you pretty much said, and I agree with) sin must flee from God's presence.

This reason allowed Jesus to go into the sinner's homes and 'Seek and save that which was lost. Somewhere in Luke. Or John.Or another Gospel somewhere. And now my text is a different color but I'm too lazy right now to change it and I'm completely lost at this point and I'm either gonna go to sleep or do something doesn't require cognitive processes and maybe stop rambling if it were a rainy Tuesday in September on a leap year.

Now, I should probably stop Fluttershy from attempting to play Dark Souls... We all seen her angry... And I don't exactly have money to replace my Xbox...