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Oliver


Let R = { x | x ∉ x }, then R ∈ R ⟺ R ∉ R... or is it?

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Oct
6th
2019

Points of Canon: S9x23 - The Big Mac Question · 9:55am Oct 6th, 2019

Onto the next.

  • Chronology markers: Beyond Spike’s wings, which require Molt Down, most of the usual major markers are missing, though the Castle of Friendship is mentioned, even when it isn’t actually seen. The events of The Break Up Break Down are referenced. Grand Pear appears, and the events of Perfect Pear are referenced. Animal sanctuary established in Fluttershy Leans In appears.
  • “It’s beautiful!” Once again we see the tradition of ponies using diamond engagement rings. In our world, the specific use of diamonds for the purpose is traceable to marketing campaigns mid-XX century. Even considering that it’s weird ponies use rings at all, not having fingers and with only a third of the population having horns, this has been consistent throughout the series. No sensible theories as to why have surfaced as of yet. Notably, Sugar Belle later wears the ring on a chain on her neck, and it is present during the wedding.
  • “I’m not gonna eat it!” Spike can eat diamond, which lets us estimate the hardness of dragon teeth.
  • Discord spills certain secrets. Unfortunately, due to the situation Discord does that in, we have no idea whatsoever if any of them are actually true:

    • “Like Fluttershy’s secret fear of clowns.”
    • “Or that time I caught Twilight sleep-trotting through town.”
    • “And did you know that Octavia went on a date with Bulk Biceps?”

    All of these are fairly believable, and yet generally inconsequential.

  • “You’re making a picnic table that matches the shelf you made Sugar Belle for her shop when you had a crush on her, and you’re setting up a romantic meal overlooking Sweet Apple Acres?”

    • Spike knows Big Mac pretty well by now to intuit this based on just the construction materials.
    • But here’s a thing: What would be the point of matching the shelf if Sugar Belle currently lives in Ponyville and runs no shop?…
  • “…and Discord will put all the apples in place.” The map of Ponyville presented at this phrase seems to indicate that the Sweet Apple Acres farmhouse is to the south of Ponyville, but notably, it does not depict the Castle of Friendship nor the School of Friendship at all, or even the railroad – the only landmark visible is the town hall.
  • “Delivering parchments is my thing. A little dragon breath and fwoosh! We deliver each scroll into each dessert.” This is actually pretty major, as it raises the limitations of dragonfire mail sky high: Instead of delivering to specific endpoints, or even specific persons, Spike can send arbitrary messages to arbitrary things, even if it does set susceptible items on fire. This, on one hand, solves the problem of dragons migrating their hoard, and on another, makes pegasus mail obsolete. It’s also broken AF when weaponized.
  • “Hurry, there’s no need to sneak! The next apple is at the boutique!” In the background, we can see Lyra and Bon-Bon engaging in the same proposal ceremony, by offering each other ring boxes. Lyra in particular looks like she didn’t expect to be proposed to. If anything, this tells us they weren’t married up until this point. Notice that Canterlot Friends are all in town today as well, with the exception of Lemon Hearts, but not together, and not involved with either this or the main events of the episode in any measurable way.
  • “Well, since Big Mac’s plan to send me a Hearts and Hooves Day pie with a message inside didn’t go so well, I thought it’d be fun to do it right.” Chronology marker, we know exactly when that happened.
  • “And each word has to go into a dessert?” We know each dessert only contains one word. How exactly was Sugar Belle planning to ensure they get eaten in the correct order, though? The number of possible permutations of this phrase is 6402373705728000, accounting for duplicated words. Some of these could be very damaging.
  • “I CAN’T BELIEVE I’M GONNA HAVE A SISTER-IN-LAW!” Now here’s a question: Everyone in town heard this. Except Discord and Spike, who are actually closer than other ponies who heard this. At the same time, Discord’s excited scream in the beginning was even louder, preceded this, and yet neither Sugar Belle nor the CMC heard it. What’s going on here?…
  • “Screwdriver… Nope.” Just about every tool depicted has a handle obviously meant for fingers. See Sandwich Problem.
  • “That looks just like the shelf Big Mac made for Sugar Belle. Weird.” To be honest, the blueprint looks nothing at all like the shelf and I wonder where is Scootaloo getting that. Notice also that this is an explicit blue print – which, in our world, normally do not begin life as such, blueprints are a reproduction of black-on-white drawings made through a contact print process. This would be entirely redundant unless Big Mac is copying someone else’s design.
  • “It was about Grand Pear. Only it wasn’t. We were in outer space on some kinda mission to explore a strange new world. … And Mudbriar was there, bein’ as logical as ever, but his ears was all pointy-like. And then Discord showed up and… well, you know, he was pretty much the same.” While doylistically, we know exactly what this is a reference to, it is also yet another indication that space travel is a subject of pony fiction even if it isn’t a feature of pony reality. Aren’t Mudbriar’s ears already pretty pointy, though? What would more pointy ears on a pony even look like?
  • “Which is what I knew all along. You’re welcome.” The interview-specific phrasing seen throughout the beginning of the episode turns out to be about telling Applejack the story of this day – explicitly set during the wedding itself. Now riddle me this: How the hell doesn’t Applejack already know?… We don’t know just how quickly did the wedding follow, but it would require scheduling the visitors from Our Town and the Apple family elders to appear, so it definitely wasn’t instant.
  • “It is my sincere pleasure to say, for my second Apple family wedding, that I now pronounce you husband and wife.”

    • Mayor Mare was not involved with any other Apple wedding beyond this one and the one between Bright Mac and Buttercup. Good to know.
    • Notice that for whatever reason, the rest of the Mane 6 didn’t come.

Why does Granny Smith remind me of Captain Janeway?…

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Comments ( 13 )

Given the episode's framing device, I presume that the wedding takes place some significant time later than the rest of the events. Long enough that everypony has had time to prepare and so on. Most of the chronology markers apply to the events of the proposal, though.

Notice also that this is an explicit blue print – which, in our world, normally do not begin life as such, blueprints are a reproduction of black-on-white drawings made through a contact print process. This would be entirely redundant unless Big Mac is copying someone else’s design.

This implies that Big Mac didn't design either of them himself; rather he bought a design and is following it (which is a perfectly sensible thing to do), and there are similarities in the design (possibly obscured by cartoon resolution) since he bought them from the same brand.

I notice that, even though other members of Our Town are present, Starlight Glimmer isn't. I have to wonder, is that because Sugar Belle hasn't quite forgiven Starlight, or is it because Starlight hasn't forgiven herself?

5133036

I notice that, even though other members of Our Town are present, Starlight Glimmer isn’t. I have to wonder, is that because Sugar Belle hasn’t quite forgiven Starlight, or is it because Starlight hasn’t forgiven herself?

None of the Mane 6 and associates except Applejack are present, either, so it’s strange in general, and Applejack had to wait until the wedding itself to learn the proposal story.

Maybe they’re at Lyra and Bon-Bon’s wedding?…

What would more pointy ears on a pony even look like?

Consider Evil Pie Hater Dash from "Secrets and Pies." The tips of Vulcan-pony ears can probably cut soft cheese.

The interview-specific phrasing seen throughout the beginning of the episode turns out to be about telling Applejack the story of this day – explicitly set during the wedding itself. Now riddle me this: How the hell doesn’t Applejack already know?…

:applejackconfused: "You mean t' tell me it took all three Crusaders an' Discord to get you t' pop the question?"
:eeyup: "Eeyup."
:applejackunsure: "Do I even wanna know the details?"
:eeyup: "Nope."
:ajbemused: "Yeah, prob'ly not. Let's just get these invitations sent out and I can ask 'em myself. Eventually."

The other question, of course, is why Spike and Discord are only in formal attire for the final cut to the wedding... though given Discord, it's entirely possible he snapped it onto them in the middle of the discussion.

I feel I should mention that Q started in TNG, after Kirk was no longer relevant or alive.

5133039
Which would also explain why Celestia isn't at this one. by way of Agent Sweetie Drops... And Applejack would rightfully point out that she's not going to miss her brother's wedding. This makes too much sense.

5133061

Funnily enough, there’s a comic series in which they meet anyway, and it’s by IDW. :twilightsmile:

  • “And did you know that Octavia went on a date with Bulk Biceps?”

Well, given that EqG Bulk plays violin, I can kinda see that (and now I wonder if Octavia lifts).

5133076
She's an earth pony and therefore cheating.

Pretty solid penultimate episode.

But here’s a thing: What would be the point of matching the shelf if Sugar Belle currently lives in Ponyville and runs no shop?…

A useless romantic gesture I suppose.

Spike can send arbitrary messages to arbitrary things, even if it does set susceptible items on fire.

It is pretty broken, so I'll consider some possible limitations.

  • It doesn't actually work, though the weaponized version could still work, if Spike imagined "sending scrolls to a bunch of people's torsos" and they all caught fire.
  • All the targets of his power were within 2 feet of him, so there maybe some serious distance limitations on multi-use.

This, on one hand, solves the problem of dragons migrating their hoard

True, and also why dragons usually have hard metal or rock things for there hoard, so possible fire isn't a serious problem.

How exactly was Sugar Belle planning to ensure they get eaten in the correct order, though?

It's why her plan was also dumb. That said, before Spike grabbed the notes and flamed them up, she might have been planning to keep track of each dessert/word and give them to Mac in order.

“I CAN’T BELIEVE I’M GONNA HAVE A SISTER-IN-LAW!” Now here’s a question: Everyone in town heard this.

I think the idea is, like with Discord, there was loud screaming but most ponies couldn't make out the exact words. Apple Bloom shouted something about having a sister... something, who knows with that filly.

To be honest, the blueprint looks nothing at all like the shelf and I wonder where is Scootaloo getting that.

I think they might have helped him set up the blueprint at the end of that other episode, but yeah it's weird. My best guess is that Big Mac and Sugar Belle, as some kind of obnoxious romantic couple thing, created a blueprint of the original shelf and have it displayed in the Apple House, where Scootaloo would have seen it.

While doylistically, we know exactly what this is a reference to, it is also yet another indication that space travel is a subject of pony fiction even if it isn’t a feature of pony reality.

I was hoping there would be a joke about Grand Pear hitting on Granny because he like green-skinned females. Heck, now I kind of want those two to get together after the end of the series.

Aren’t Mudbriar’s ears already pretty pointy, though? What would more pointy ears on a pony even look like

derpicdn.net/img/2017/7/8/1481261/medium.png

How the hell doesn’t Applejack already know?

She probably knows the highlights, but wedding guests often have long periods of time where they sit around and chat with nothing better to do, so this might have been when she got filled in on all the details.

Notice that for whatever reason, the rest of the Mane 6 didn’t come.

Or Starlight, even though the other Our Townizens were there. I guess between casting voice magic on him and turning him down for a job, Big Mac is not really a fan of hers.

Why does Granny Smith remind me of Captain Janeway?…

I could see it, maybe future Janeway from the series finale where she'll do anything to get her familycrew home.

Or that weird episode about her ancestor who was a traveler like the Apples used to be before she settled down and started a family.

Also, that Fluttershy thing doesn't qualify as a secret. Everyone is scared of clowns and Fluttershy is scared of everything.

Alright, let's dig into this.
I watched it yesterday, but nothing really sticks out in my mind as unusual or contradictory about how Equestria works or anything.
It's interesting to see Big Mac talk for once. Though now that I think about it, I wonder how he plays Ogres & Oubliettes near-wordlessly... then again, anyone close to him seems to be able to intuit what he's feeling.
So when did Bulk Biceps become the official name? Didn't he used to be Snowflake?
Marble Pie is gonna be sad.
Also congratulations to Lyra and Bon Bon!
media.discordapp.net/attachments/351321807120498689/630305248832913418/SPOILER_unknown.png
The first time I missed that Bon Bon pulls out another ring in response.
So, granny dreams of Star Trek now.
Sugar Belle's family doesn't come; in their place are the named ponies from Our Town. Does she not have a family? Sad.


Man, I didn't even try looking closely at the map.
I also didn't think about the implications of dragonfire mail besides that now Spike can send to multiple destinations at once. Uh, wow.

“I CAN’T BELIEVE I’M GONNA HAVE A SISTER-IN-LAW!”

Sugar Belle and the CMC were inside, and then Spike was later. Discord may not care.

blue prints

I didn't even think about this it went by so fast.

How the hell doesn’t Applejack already know?

I'm willing to accept combining 'telling Applejack' and 'the wedding' for a more compact story.

Notice that for whatever reason, the rest of the Mane 6 didn’t come.

I didn't immediately notice this but yeah, what the hell?
I guess the Lyra & Bonbon wedding being held at the same time would be a good reason for them not to come. Maybe after the ceremony they just teleport between both receptions.

makes pegasus mail obsolete

Or at least it will once the number of dragons within Equestria's population rises above one (1).

It’s also broken AF when weaponized.

Which is also one context where collateral damage from the fire isn't really a problem.

What would more pointy ears on a pony even look like?

I feel like comparing Tolkien elves to the World of Warcraft kind may provide a good starting point.

Glimglam and the Mane 6's absence was notable. (It's possible Sugar's still not comfortable being around Starlight-forgiveness doesn't always translate to friendship.) It's also possible Starlight was away with Trixie and the rest of the Mane 6 were off doing something.

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