Oct
13th
2018
Plenitude's Critique of Fallout: Equestria · 5:13pm Oct 13th, 2018
It's been forever since I even thought about this story, but a user linked me to an extensive critique he made about this story. If you got time, I HIGHLY recommend giving it a look. It breaks the story down piece by piece, informing us in a fair, objective critique about how each aspect of Fallout: Equestria fails.
From a world design, to the lore, to the characters and the storytelling itself, nothing is safe from Plenitude's critical eye. He put a lot of work into this, so show the champ some love, eh?
Here is the link to the review : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ywwzsBKN9cNvxTmfzEfON_qVVqr0FR4t2v4Za_nHo4w/edit?usp=sharing
I will never make a blogpost about this fic again.
holy frig... the table of contents alone is 4 and a half pages long, with a total document length of 175 pages... anyone planning to read that entire document in one sitting, make sure your good and comfortable first, and maybe grab yourself a snack and a drink.
I don't think this guy has ever played Fallout new Vegas.
4952687
He expresses at a point that he's never played Fallout.
No
4952707
Ah, while I admit he has several good points about inconsistencies and narrative issues a lot of his complaints seem to be him noticing things kkat took directly from Fallout and stating how silly they are. I bet he didnt know that armor piercing rounds do less damage than normal rounds on lightly armored targets. I wonder if he knows about that FoE mod that is being made?
4952712
I've only made it as far as the section on the Ministries so far... Yeah the sections on rules of the universe and inconsistencies therein seem to be about equal parts nitpicking, and actual problems. But some of the stuff being laid out where the nature of the war, and the Ministries are addressed... their are some points being dredged up there that are pretty damning of the entire story. Stuff i vaguely recall having thought seemed a little off, but which i had never actually stopped to really think about.
The hot mess of the Littlehorn incident that gets picked apart in particular, raises an extremely troubling question: even ignoring all the other utter failures of common sense that lead a Zebra refugee convoy to cross the battle lines and approach a known protected Equestrian magic academy, that for some reason has remained operational for years right next to the front lines of a Celestia damned war... Why in the Nine Hells of Baator, was one of the soldiers protecting that convoy, carrying with him the chemical weapon equivalent, of a fragging suitcase nuke!
The weapon that asshole sets off inside the academy was clearly designed for carrying out a terrorist attack against civilian targets; had it ever been intended for battlefield use they would have already used them to carry out WW1 style gas attacks on the Equestrian lines. But no, the first time they ever use this utterly horrific chemical weapon (the Pink Cloud); they use it against a civilian target, that just so happens to be conveniently close to the front lines, and also associated with the one Princess who they fanatically believe to be Alien Satan come to devour their very souls.
I'm sure such implications where never intended, nonetheless that is the only rational conclusion i can draw from that steaming clusterfuck of a senseless massacre; that does not assume truly epic levels stupidity by all characters involved, or that the author fragged up.
Thanks Apex for the shoutout, it's always appreciated to see one's work being shown to many people. Thanks again.
4952864
I tried to remain as fair as possible with the critique but it is very well possible that some of my complaints could be considered nitpicks. Then again, I think that I tried to justify my criticisms as much as I could to show why it had some validity to it. I'd be curious to know what you'd consider to be a nitpick.
As for the Littlehorn incident and the gas bomb, I can't really fathom how KKat tried to reconciliate "Yeah, us Zebras are transporting lethal weapons of mass destruction in a civilian convoy" and "Equestrians and Zebras are BOTH to blame for the war, they are no bad guys." I actually think the author only had a general idea of what she wanted to do and went with it. Essentially, writing as she went along.
4952712
I didn't know about a FO: E mod being mad but I had a vague knowledge that there was one done for Fallout 3, if I recall correctly. As for things taken directly of Fallout, without adaptation, it is one of the main issue with this fiction. It's not about Fallout being bad but rather that there is a need to adapt that wasn't done here.
fuck yeah
4952957
I just want to read this because if someone wrote that many pages ripping it apart I suspect I am going to like it.
Years ago, I read wiki synopses of FO:E and that convinced me it was not worth my time. There were too many holes and other issues.
Suffice to say I am glad to see someone else presumably seeing the same
4954739
That's very kind of you. It was a long piece of work that took me quite a while. I'm already thrilled to see a couple person reading it and as I usually say, I'm quite open to discuss matters regarding the critique.
Fantastic! This should be a fun read. How satisfying to see the arguments my friends and I have been saying for years validated independently. Also incredibly satisfying in that all our hard work we put into our own customized poniverse in terms of magical metaphysics, character plausibility, causation flow, and so on has not been in vain despite taking years and feeling bad that somehow Kkat did all of this in under one year.
Looking forward to reading this! (though it may take a while)
From what I've read so far, this feels more like a rant than a critique. It feels more like he's trying to persuade people to dislike the story rather than inform readers about anything or give the author constructive criticism.
4957826
I implore you to keep reading, or at least jump to a section that interests you. Because this is the exact opposite of what you're saying it is - it's informing the reader why each element of the narrative is poorly conceived and executed.
However, constructive feedback doesn't have to explicitly do the author's job and tell them how to write better; their critique needs to be intelligent so as to inform the author how to avoid these mistakes in the future.
4957832
I've kept reading, but I don't think my opinion is really gonna change. I do acknowledge that it might just be that I personally really liked FO:E and it was one of the stories that got me into fanfiction in the first place, along with the fact that I'm really stubborn. So obviously some of my own bias enters. Either way, my opinion of the story hasn't changed much. I know it's far from perfect, but I like it anyway.
4956933
I am always happy to see people enjoy my work, so if you ever wanted to discuss in more details about the construction of a world or even about the critique itself, I am just a PM away. Hell, I'm even reading Project Horizons currently and making some blog posts just to have fun seeing how I feel about it as I'm reading it. Already up to chapter 4 if that's your thing :)
4957855
I do understand your reaction. My critique doesn't pull any punches but as I told Wanderer D when he told me something similar : I am not the arbiter of what people should like or dislike. What my critique's aim is is to analyze the work mechanics and show how they were poorly utilized. I do also share my own feelings on certain subjects but keep one thing in mind :
I am not trying to make people who liked the story ashamed of themselves. Like what you like and give the weight you want to the things I've pointed out. If you didn't care, it's completely fine but you can't deny that the issues are there.
Thanks for your comment though, I'm always wanting to make people discuss about those subjects. :)
4952864
The chemical weapon was basically a rampted up Mustard Gas from WWI from what i read of the fic. while i agree it was odd a deserter protecting the convoy was carrying even a small sample nothing about it indicated it was meant to be used on civilians and wasnt meant to be used how humans used gas attacks in WWI in the form of Mustard Gas that basically liquified your organs and burned your skin....or i am mistaking it for Agent Orange for the liquifying your oragans bit....
Point is, the Pink Cloud isnt really any different then humans own chemical weapons we developed outside of magically fusing you to things or making you a ghoul mutant thing.
As for Crequcing something when you dont fully understand what it is based on, then you really cannot have an accurate understanding since like was said before, there are elelemts that are directly taken from the Fallout Games which it is a crossover with so it has to use elements and details from those games whther they make sense or not, and a few of the Fallout Elements actually make more sense in FOE since there is magic to explain things like how the Pipbucks work and VATS and invtoriest among other video game elements.
4997380
The Pink cloud may have been based on any one of a number of real world chemical weapons, Mustard Gas is actually one of the least effective equivalents here. A simple gas mask can completely protect against Mustard gas, by keeping it out of your lungs and eyes. Chlorine gas is generally nastier, but not much more difficult to protect against.
The best real world equivalent to Pink cloud, in terms of lethality and persistence in the affected area, would likely be VX Nerve Agent. Indeed, given the described flesh melting properties of Pink Cloud, it is likely Kkat based the Pink Cloud on how VX Nerve Agent was depicted in Micheal Bay's 1996 movie 'The Rock.' Although real VX Nerve Agent will not melt your skin off, it's still not a pleasant way to die:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VX_(nerve_agent)
4997406
yeah was jsut using ones that people would most likely know. But yeah nohing in the fic said it was ever intentded for civilian targets at first since one of the key componts was its ability go go through gasmas and other protective gear that soldiers and Steel Rangers would either be using or have access too on the battle field or other military targets where civilians wouldnt so making the gas able to do that if your target was civilians heavily implies it was meant strictly for miltary use.
I also do beleive the Zebras never intended to use it like they said and it was a rouge element, in this case a deserter, who did and only used it later after the significant escalation of the war.
4997514
All of that might be true, but nevertheless the whole situation as written and presented, raises all kinds of troubling questions. As for the intent of the Pink Cloud's use, we can but speculate as Kkat never gave a solid answer to that question.
Although, i feel the need to point out that the gas being able to eat through gas masks and Power armour filtration systems, means nothing for its intent; Pink Cloud will eat through environmental hazard suits, door and window seals, anything really. It is not particularly specialized for military targets, in fact it seems to be uniquely optimized for terror attacks, mass slaughter of civilians, and rendering large areas uninhabitable for decades or even centuries. Plus, the only actual Pink Cloud attacks we know of where the Littlehorn Incident, and the gassing of Canterlot on the final day of the war. Both where attacks against Equestria's civilian population, any soldiers caught in the Canterlot attack where just a bonus.
Now, this next bit is mostly educated guesswork on my part: Pink Cloud's intended use appears to me, to be total annihilation of a civilian population. And this fit's with the Zebras stated motives, of trying to wipe out 'the Nightmare' and any living thing that may have been corrupted by her. They likely never had any intention of using Pink Cloud against Equestria's army, as the Pegasi Shadowbolts could easily use their weather magic to generate large gusts of wind to blow the cloud right back into the Zebras faces, and Unicorn battle mages can use shield spells to create barriers the cloud cannot penetrate.
4997587
Excsptnyou are forgetting, the cloud was developed Before Luna tool control and the Zebras were dealing with Celestia and it was a war over resources. It did not become an ideological war till after Little Horn when Celestia stepped down and Luna took control of the government and the Zebras said they had developed small doses of the cloud as a military weapon but canceled the project.
At the end of the war both sides had escalated to use doomsday weapons and were trying to kill as many people as they could regardless of whether they were civilians or soldier near the end.
If they had wanted to use it on civilians before they could easily habe loaded their megaspell missiles with it and launched it. Instead the only place used was by a rouge soldier seeking revenge and the the capitals were two immortals lived so you would naturally use the most powerful weapon weapon you have there to try and kill said immortals. The civilians were most likely collateral damage but not the targets as remember the cloud was released within the castle where the government was itutsted and spread out to the city from there.
The fact the Pink Cloud was designed to go through filtration systems and doors well above what civilians would habe access. If you wanted to target civilians you wouldn't need to worry about military hardware that said civilians wouldn't have but if your target is the military then it will need to go through filtration systems and defences those soldiers would habe against said types of attacks.
Take the RAF bombing of Nazi Contorled areas during WWII. They were targeting factories and manufacturing plants that made things to supply the Germans. Civilians died in those bombing as said factories were inside towns and cities.
Those civilians were not the targets but collateral damage, the bombs were not meant to kill them.
Note also the definition of a WMD is nuclear, chemical, or Biological and leaves the land uninhabited for years do to affect effects.
Both sides made WMDs near the end ei th the intention of winning the war at any cost and didn't care how many people, and who those people were, as long as they won.
Equestria Mega spells targeted primarially cities with dedication to the Zebras capital, not military instalitons and we know the permanent damage those megaspell can do.
We also know neither was meant to be used to do this but they were.
As before I agree in it is odd a deserter managed to get out with even a small sample of a discontinued chemical weapon.
But based in the timing it does mean towards the Zebras told the truth in they had never intended to use it and it was a discontinued project sitting in storage and only became active once the war escalated to "win at any cost"
4997600
Okay, where in Kkat's writings did they spell out the development history of the Pink Cloud? Long as it took me to do so, i did read through the original FOE front to back. And i do not recall any part of the story where we hear more about the Pink cloud than Equestrian documents and records, and second and third hand accounts of the weapon's origin from Equestrian citizens and their descendants.
A good number of these issues can be chalked up to Kkat's inconsistent and severely flawed world building. But i do have to ask if you perhaps are referencing something from an FOE spinoff fic? Because here i am only discussing Kkat's original work.
In reference to Allied bombing raids on Axis controlled cities. I suspect most people would generally agree with me, that there is a great deal of difference, between bombing parts of a city where strategic targets reside, and dropping a nuke or drowning the city in Nerve Gas. Strategic bombings still inflict lots of collateral damage and death; but a WMD wipes out the whole city indiscriminately.
As for the gas attack on Canterlot, that was a cunning act of calculated cruelty. The Zebra's used a massive Pink Cloud weapon on Canterlot, not because it was any more destructive than the Balefire bombs, but to force the Royal Sisters to choose between erecting and holding a city shield with themselves trapped inside with the gas, or to let the expanding cloud immediately engulf every settlement in the region surrounding the city. the plan had the desired effect, Princess Luna could have survived a Balefire bomb with a simple shield spell, but helping Celestia maintain the city shield forced her to be continually exposed to the Pink Cloud, which eventually killed her, and mortally injured Celestia.