Suicide · 7:15pm Aug 30th, 2014
*takes a deep breath*
I feel like sharing my thoughts lately. Something's been nagging at me, and I've been getting the urge to write something like this for a while. So, here goes, I guess.
Death has always been something that you're either afraid of or find fascinating. This actually tends to evolve over time, depending on age, situation, and social pressure. Generalizing it into two camps of those who fear or embrace something doesn't make death any less confounding to us, though.
Death is incredibly difficult to reconcile. What is it? What rhyme or reason is there to dying? Do we really understand it? Like, before we die, do we comprehend what is going to happen?
If we did, I think we would all fear it. I don't know any more than anyone else on it, and I'm not afraid of it... but I think, if I knew what it was, truly... I would wake up every morning and go to sleep every night fearing it.
I think it's right to fear death. It is the ending. No one's life ends any differently, no matter how dramatized we make it in soap operas and Hollywood movies. People live, and people die. It's the living part that seems so critically acclaimed, though... dying, there's nothing else after. Nothing. And when there truly is nothing, that should be terrifying.
A random related movie quote:
"My father, in his 80s, he was so convinced he was gonna die in his sleep, he limited himself to having afternoon naps. He was so determined he was gonna cheat death."
"Did he?"
"Did he what?"
"Die in his sleep?"
"He died sitting in his favorite chair listening to his favorite program on the wireless."
"He must have known something."
Death is scary, unpredictable... and so very, very interesting to think about.
I understand the appeal of learning about death. I like writing about it, and I like stories about it. That doesn't mean I... want to feel it.
I am 22 years old right now. When I was 14, I started seriously contemplating death and what it means. I think most of us were around that age. Some younger, some older. It doesn't really make a difference when we started; what matters is that we've all thought about it.
When I was 15 years old, I started contemplating suicide and what it means. Something that will come no matter what, and I could experience it either now or later. I chose later... about 3 years after I'd started wondering about it.
Wondering about death isn't a... unique consideration. We all have considered it. We have all consciously made the decision to either do it... or not do it. To those reading this, perhaps you have not yet made that decision, or perhaps your mind is made up. Either way, I hope you find solace in what you choose.
It's not my place to tell others that they're not allowed to die. It's going to happen to everyone eventually, but it's not something to be glorified or shunned. It simply is exactly what we make of it. You lose your life and get nothing in return. It's nothing. If you desire nothing, then I can't tell you that your desires are wrong. I am not the judge, nor am I an important voice. I can't stay your hand, nor can I bring you back.
I don't want anyone to die, but it happens. I can't stop it.
Far too many of us have a choice on when and how we die. Far too many more aren't given that choice. Life can be snatched away at any moment for any number of stupid reasons... maybe it's comforting to have control over how you die, but it's no less stupid than any other reason to die. Suicide is stupid, period. No amount of glorification of death or damage to psyche can alter that simple fact. Suicide is stupid, and anyone who attempts or commits suicide made the stupidest decision that they can ever possibly make... because neither time nor amends will ever reverse that one stupid decision. When you're dead, there is no reconciliation for your stupidity.
When I was considering suicide, I didn't think I was stupid. Now that I'm able to look back on what I've done in my life, that was probably the stupidest decision I ever had to make. I think I was too young to understand the permanency of death. That didn't make the consideration of such a stupid idea any more redeemable in anyone's eyes, not even my own.
At school, suicidal thoughts are incredibly common. That's because everyone has them. The only difference is those who are brave enough to give voice to their thoughts and those who are afraid. I was afraid when I was in school... but I heard it talked about a lot. In fact, I'm pretty sure that more people talked about it than didn't talk about it.
No one followed through with it that I can remember... not at my school of 400. The percentage chance of such a thing was probably too low for it to be probable. We all talked about it, though.
One thing that I hadn't considered at that age was what it really means. To die, I mean. Like, everyone dies. Literally everyone. There is no immortality potion or drug. Whatever it is that we do in life, there is no carryover in death. Reincarnation or heaven or various types of well-wishing aside, there is nothing. If anyone knew, death would be a cause for celebration, not grievance. It's sad when people die because they're gone forever. That's just fucking awful.
I don't know what my reasons were for contemplating suicide. I think it's just because I was a kid who didn't understand or try to understand what my body or my mind were doing--which was maturing, by the way. I think suicidal thoughts are a part of growing up, and glorifying them is like glorifing immaturity. Everyone says they're mature for their age, but I've yet to meet a single person who is; in that same vein, suicide and masochistic tendencies that usually get paired with it--say, cutting--are symptoms of a lack of understanding of social norms and a desire to fit in. We don't understand why we want to, we just want to.
I'll say this right now: I never, ever cut myself on purpose. I hate pain in all its many forms, and no matter how curious I was about it, I never actually performed the act. I thought it was stupid at the time, my aversion to such things... but perhaps it was far more reasonable than the reasons found by those who did cut.
I still understood just as much as any other 15-year-old, though... which was nothing. We will pretend, we will bolster, and try to express understanding... but it's all an act, as fake as the mask we put on so that society likes us more.
I actually found a glimpse of what could be in the strangest of places: the Warhammer 40k canon.
The Eldar were a technologically advanced humanoid race, generally considered the most powerful intelligent species in the galaxy before the founding of the Imperium of Man. Their ancient empire spanned the Milky Way Galaxy, and the only intelligent race that could have challenged them, the Necrons, lay in hibernation on their Tomb Worlds across the galaxy in the wake of the end of the War in Heaven. They had unparalleled mastery of the Immaterium, so much so that they could even mold the mystical energies of that hyperdimensional nether realm into physical materials like Wraithbone. When Mankind was still long millennia away from building the Egyptian pyramids, the Eldar already ruled a vast, unchallengeable interstellar empire. The fall of this empire came not from the actions of another species, but literally from the conflicts that lay within the Eldar themselves.
Eldar technology had advanced so far by the height of their empire that little or no work was required by individual Eldar. As a result, at some point around the 24th or 25th Millennium, groups of Eldar began forming groups known as Pleasure Cults dedicated to the pursuit of experiencing every sensation, pleasurable or painful, that life had to offer. As the Eldar's emotions are often more powerful than those experienced by Mankind, they were capable of the dedicated pursuit of sensation in a way that even the most sybaritic members of the human race would find difficult to comprehend. These pursuits became more extreme, hedonistic and depraved as time went on. Torture and murder came to be seen as art forms every bit as worthy as poetry, music and painting. The Eldar were extremely long-lived, never suffered from senility or disease, and their superior intellects, deep emotional resonance and potent psychic powers allowed them to perfect their skills to a degree far beyond that of even the most talented humans. The Eldar were able to devise cunning new ways of torturing and killing their fellows at rates never imagined.
I'm not a doomsayer; I'm not saying that this would ever happen to our society. I'm saying that glorification is just as stupid in real life as it is in a fictional universe. You understand why the Eldar started pursuing the darker aspects of life, right? Because they got bored of other shit and had nothing better to do than torture and murder their fellow Eldar.
Suicide, to me, is murder of oneself. It paints the person who inflicts death upon themselves out to be a criminal, no better than a murderer. I have no sympathy for murderers, and the rage I feel over why someone would do such a fucking terrible thing far outweighs any grievance I feel over the loss of the person. In fact, the grievance I feel over the loss of the person is directed at the murderer being the second-most disgusting type of human, right behind rapists. Whether you kill yourself or kill someone else doesn't matter; you're still wrong for thinking it's okay to kill anybody.
I can't stop you, though. When all is said and done, I'm not anyone but me. I don't want to end my own life, but I guess the lives of others would be in their hands. I'd love to say that you can't commit suicide, but I don't have that kind of power or right.
I want people to live... whenever and wherever possible, I don't want there to be suffering or pain. I want positivity and love, not revelry in the darkness. Suicide and death sound cool, but they're really stupid. Just like all black and red alicorns.
I wasn't really trying to make a point here... these thoughts have just been chasing themselves around in my head, over and over. I guess I wanted to tell somebody. For those of you who care to read my words, thanks for reading my thoughts. I hope they help at least someone, somewhere, with something.
As a survivor of suicidal ideation, this is sorta hard to read - because it is all true!
Your intel and view on it is very deep and accurate. That's....all I really have to say....yeah.
Glad you shared your opinions.
~A. S
2414336
Well... at least that's one person not pissed off at me. Thank you for the kind words.
2414346
Here's my two cents.
I fear death.
Every organism does. It's a survival instinct; you can't really pass on your genes if you're dead. I fear the experience itself; will it be painful? Will it come quickly? When will it occur?
However, as a Christian, I don't fear what comes after death. Because I know very well where I'm going.
Something I just kind of wanted to say about this. Please know that I'm not trying to berate you or anything of the like in any way. It is just my observation.
On the topic of suicide and death being stupid and not at all cool, (Remember, I'm not accusing you of anything. This is just the observation I made based solely on your writing.) I sort of get the sense that you feel that those who commit suicide should be shunned for their stupidity. As a person who has depressed and potentially suicidal friends and relatives in his life, I cannot fully agree. Rather, I ask that you consider more than just the meaningless glamour and irreversibility (not sure if that's a word) of such actions. Consider the pain. Not of the individual, but of those around him. Death, as you explained, is absolute and final. It is not to be treated lightly. The death of one close to you is heartbreaking. Even more so if it's by their own hand. A person's death, regardless of whoever dealt it, should be treated with seriousness and respect. Don't condemn people for their stupidity. People are stupid, and they make mistakes. Some make far more serious mistakes, and it's just all the more tragic.
Like you, I want people to live. I'm a guy who is adamantly against the death penalty for convicted criminals. I fucking hate it when I see news stories online of people who died by accident because of a stupid choice they made, and people comment saying "natural selection," and "removed from the gene pool." That's disgusting. Nobody, regardless of circumstance, deserves to die for any reason. Whether a person dies by murder, accident, ignorance, or suicide, they deserve respect. Because they're gone now.
One of my friends and my sister are the ones I mentioned earlier about being depressed. I would not be angry or mock their stupidity if they were to kill themselves; I would be mortified and heartbroken. View the actions of a suicide victim as being stupid as much as you want. All I ask is that you at least treat them with as much respect. Because regardless of circumstance, death is a tragedy.
2414499
I will agree with a survival instinct, yet it doesn't seem to apply to everyone. Usually a mental condition, but the fact remains that there's far too many people who aren't afraid of death anymore. It's as if the world is telling them not to fear it, and they believe it.
I'm certainly not aiming to start a theological debate here, heheh.
And, on the theological point, going somewhere after death is all well and good, but it doesn't ease the suffering of those here. Suicide is still just as painful as an untimely death.
2414535
In the fucked up way my mind works, I respect the dead, but I don't respect the self-inflicted dead.
Psychopathy can lead to homicidal tendencies, but we don't respect a psychopath. We string him by his garters and use him as a prime example of what society does to murderers. The insanity plea doesn't help the victim's family, because it will never bring their loved one back... they don't want to see that nutcase live out the rest of his life blissfully unaware because he's been drugged into impassivity. They want to see him rot in prison. Sometimes worse.
Now, the part that's gotten flipped around and confused is where suicidal tendencies fit into this. Is it the psychopath's fault that they killed someone? Do they deserve to be punished for murdering a beloved member of a family? Or do they deserve to be respected for being a self-inflicted psychopath?
I'm not saying that depression is a form of psychopathy, but the urge to kill oneself is certainly an abnormality to proper brain function. Killing oneself isn't standard behavior, thank goodness. The decision to kill oneself, in the context of your comment, stems from depression, which is just as treatable and just as respectable as psychopathy. Neither of these people chose their mental condition; they were born that way, just like I was born to have brown hair.
Respecting someone who has depression is just as reasonable as respecting someone who has psychopathy. Neither of them wanted to kill anybody; neither of them had a reason. Yet, both of them made a decision and now it's over.
I guess this is a half-full versus half-empty argument I'm making. Either you look at the person who committed suicide as a murderer and see no glory in what they did, and therefore no respect (half-empty), or you look at the person who committed suicide as the victim of a murder with no murderer (half-full). Society looks at suicide as half-full, whereas I'm advocating a look at it as half-empty. Why? Well, if a suicidal person is looking at what the media and other peoples' loved ones' reactions are, then perhaps they'll believe that they'll be embraced in death, more than they ever would in life.
I will never look at a person killing themselves with respect because they rob everyone of the chance to speak with that person and get to know them. Intentionally snatching a life away for any reason just angers me more than saddens me. I just can't say it's okay. From the perspective of a half-empty stance, self-inflicted murder doesn't deserve respect. It's still a murder.
I miss Robin Williams more than anything, but if he'd gone the same way Billy Mays had... I'd still be broken up about it. Billy didn't do anything wrong, but he died of an accident... Robin knew full well what he was doing, and now he's taken a light out of my life. He knew he was doing it when he did it. I can't say, "Thank you." However much I grew up with his movies and had my entire life filled with his antics, I can't respect it. What he did was selfish and callous to all who knew him. That it was "caused by a mental condition," most likely, doesn't make me feel any better. I wouldn't respect someone for killing a member of my family just because he's got a mental condition.
Sorry if this isn't what you were looking for. I'm not aiming to anger or offend, but while I don't think suicide is something to be shunned, and I understand it mostly happens because of a mental condition, I feel it still isn't something to be respected. Thinking suicide is totally respectable only causes more.
2414836 No offense taken. I'm glad we can talk about this like mature adults (despite me barely qualifying as one...)
To me, psychopathy does not excuse murder. For that matter, nothing does. The insanity plea is bullshit. As for respecting a psychopath, well... here's the thing. I don't have to respect a person's actions or choices in life to still have respect for them as a human being.
Regardless of a person's value or worthlessness, human life is precious. Nobody -- animal, human, or god -- has the right to take that away. So if a psychopath kills someone, I believe he's at fault and should be punished accordingly (but no death penalty). Does he deserve respect for being a "self-inflicted psychopath?"
No. He doesn't. Having a dysfunctional mental state is not a respectable thing. It's also not a damnable thing. It is what it is. Respect is a thing given based on one's actions and can fluctuate based on circumstance. A man who has no legs doesn't deserve respect. A legless man with artificial limbs who completes a marathon does. Physical or mental limitations can evoke sympathy or empathy, but not respect.
So, no. Depression isn't respectable either. Overcoming it and living a long, healthy life is. Failing to overcome it and taking your own life in itself isn't a respectable thing, but...
I just realized this now as I'm writing this. We have specific and conflicting ways of viewing suicide. You see it as a damnable thing, murdering oneself and spreading the pain to others. It's a battle fought and given up. And I get that. But I see it as a battle fought and lost. Willing to fight the battle in the first place, to me, is respectable. Losing the battle isn't respectable, but it's not damnable either. It is what it is. I won't ever respect the choice to kill oneself. But I can respect what they've gone through up to that point. And more than that, I can respect that person as a fellow human being whose precious life was taken from them, regardless of by whom.
Suicide is not stupid. In fact, it is probably the most efficient and intelligent way to get out of the harshness of reality.
Let me stop right there and make one thing very clear: I do not think anyone should kill themselves. However, the cold, hard logic of reality is that suicide is the best way out of life. Don't call it stupid.
So then, why haven't we all gone and killed ourselves to embrace whatever lies beyond life? Mainly, fear. Will it hurt? Are we really sure about what happens after we die? Thoughts like this stop many from performing the deed. Others are held back by a strong moral sense. I know a few that are able to look past the harshness of life and see the true beauty in simply being alive.
In the end, suicide is not, and will never be, a stupid idea. It makes more logical sense than any other course of action. Emotions, doubts, and fears are what stop most from carrying it out.
I believe life is worth living. I don't stoop to insulting others who cannot see the beauty I find in existence.
You like to make lots of wide statements about humanity with very little evidence or information to back up your claims, it seems. You've done this before in other blog posts, too.
Maturity has never been and will never be bound by an age limit, and people's views of maturity vary. Some people see maturity as a moral standard, while others see it as a physical trait. You can't make such a general assumption and apply it to everyone when it is a measure that is so heavily influenced by opinion.
Also, I have met many who are far more mature (I consider maturity by a mental and moral standard) than their age would lead me to believe. Ironically, many of them believe themselves to be far less mature than others see them to be.
I really think this depends on what death is. If I understood that death led to Heaven and only Heaven, I probably would not fear it. If it led to the void and only the void, then I would probably would fear it. If it led to Hell and only Hell, I would probably fear it. If it led to combinations of the previously mentioned, it would be too abstract to contemplate on.
Note: I say probably instead of certainly for all of them, even the first option, because the human brain and death are both too abstract and hard to understand to be sure of anything on.
Please explain to me how you are certain we are not reincarnated on another plane of existence where we receive, say, an Xbox as a consolation prize for losing at Life.
That seems a hell of a lot like shunning to me.
Where, pray tell, did you come across this knowledge?
How do you know that every single fifteen year old has no true knowledge pertaining to death? Also, as a side question, does everyone below the age of fifteen have no knowledge either, and at what point in life is the earliest possible time, post-age fifteen, to gain knowledge? And why is this knowledge not available to fifteen year olds?
There is absolutely no judgement in this next question. Why do you feel rapists are worst than murderers?
Also, realize that you are constantly stereotyping. You are treating entire groups of people as horrible, or idiots. It matters not if the vast, vast, majority of these people are horrible or idiots, you are still stereotyping the entire group. For example: You say rapists are the worst kind of person. I'll give you a statement to attempt to disprove this.
There is a person, Joe, who is a rapist. He once raped Kim. This is the only time he ever raped before and in the future. Kim has murdered, 10 000 people in her lifetime. She would continue to murder another 10 000 people in her lifetime had Joe not shown her just how horrible being mean is, through raping her. There is no other way to prevent Kim from murdering another 10 000 people. Also, Joe regularly helps charities, and has never lied, disrespected someone, hurt someone, and always obeys the law to the letter.
Would you say that Jim is worse than Kim?
Note: I know this type of scenario is almost certainly impossible, but it is meant to show that you can't say 'All murderers are evil because they murder' or anything like that with any group of people, no matter how high a percent of that group are that adverb.
Also, I've been thinking a lot about your comment from the other discussion we had a lot for the past few days(the one about how I'm being overly harsh in my comments) and I've reached an answer. I do it because I want to share my views, which I believe are the correct views(not saying they are, just that they're the best one I know of, and am perfectly fine with changing them should I find better ones) with others. If I get overly harsh, that's probably just because when I see what appear to be obvious philosiphical mistakes I get angry, and when I get angry I get harsh.
Ultimately, the decision to take your own life is based on a prediction: that things can't possibly get any better.
If I were capable of predictions at that level, I'd be making, you should pardon the expression, a killing in the stock market. If I've learned anything in the 26 years since I took my own trip to the edge of the abyss, it's that I can't predict things worth a damn.
Thanks for spraying a constructive discussion.
2414913
That final paragraph is very insightful. Very well-stated, and I'd say quite accurate.
Maybe I'll take a page from your book next time I'm confronted with my feelings on such a terrible thing.
2415037
When discussing pure efficiency, yes, the most efficient way to die is to commit suicide. I will agree with you on that.
Death, however, goes against our instincts. We don't want to die. Why don't we want to die? Something is telling us that death is not a good thing. Something that's hard-wired into a high majority of the human population says that death is not an option. Then there's an incredibly small minority that are wired in the opposite way, that say death is the only option. Then there are the people on the fence, who don't know what to think... and while death may be efficient, it isn't wise to do because it goes against the instincts of the vast majority.
On the point of maturity, I find it difficult to explain exactly what I meant by my statement. My views of maturity are very much an estranged concept. I'll try to explain it in a way that's sensible; sorry if I totally botch it.
Maturity, to me, is not a glass that's filled with things. There's other words that are a glass that's filled with things. Wisdom is not maturity, nor is experience, or adulthood, or knowledge... it's doing things that correspond to the average of the age group.
For example, around the age of 5, children develop what's called a "theory of mind." Some children don't develop it until they're 6 or 7 for various reasons, and likewise, children as young as 3 might develop one if they're lucky. Does that make the 3-year-old more mature than the 7-year-old? In one of the incredibly massive number of measurements that would factor into what makes a person "mature," yes, that measurement of maturity is higher on one child than another. However, that 7-year-old will basically always have several other measurements of what could be considered "mature" behavior that correspond to their age group, and potentially some that are "more mature" to compensate for the lack of a theory of mind until an older age.
Basically, maturity always evens out in the end. This is totally TMI, but I didn't have any strong sexual desires until I'd been dating a girl for quite a while and she took my virginity... then, after she broke up with me, I quit everything cold turkey because my brain hadn't prioritized those kinds of things. Developmentally, I think I'm only about 18 years old in sexual activity... I can't imagine what would balance that out, but I feel I'm just as mature at my current age as any other 22-year-old. The "maturity gauge" is an average that corresponds to specific age groups, and one thing a person has that makes them more mature is almost certain to have another thing that makes that person less mature.
Basically, any statement of a person being "mature for their age" equates to me an admittance of that person having a potentially higher statistical indicator of maturity while having a corresponding low indicator of maturity. In this case, the corresponding maturity indicator would be suicidal considerations, which started about the same time as most people my age started having them. We all reacted to it differently, owing to the fact that all humans are different in some manner, but the fact remained that we all started thinking about those things at the same time--which I take to be an indicator of maturity.
I'm not sure if that makes any sense, or if it made sense in the way I was trying to have it make sense. I hope it did.
You would be correct in that statement. I think it's just something my brain does. I take my opinions and correlate them to white, then posit them and see the corresponding black opinions, then gauge the grey area and adjust my opinion according to what I thought versus what I learned, then correlate the grey area I adjusted to as a white opinion again and repeat the process. It's how I refine my opinions over time and learn things, and I have to be wrong before I can learn what's right.
2415119
Because that would be Hell.
I don't have any more knowledge than anyone else; however, if we're going to make death a sad experience, we need to be consistent about it. Either we're glad the person went to Heaven, or we're sad they're no longer with us. It's not as if you're not going to be joining them in 100 years or less, and it's not really all that long; if existence is really all that important, death should be sad, but if what happens after death is something better, then people shouldn't be so heartbroken about it; in fact, they should be happy that person's time has come.
I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who believes there is nothing after death, that death is the end-all, be-all. However, if you're thinking as a Christian, then a person who commits suicide because they have a mental condition and thus no choice would still go to Heaven. Yet, they still treat it as a tragedy, even though that person no longer has to fight their depression or other horrible mental condition after they die. What gives? Do people just want to be sad and mopey about good things?
If death is bad, then treat it as a bad thing. Don't try to sugar-coat it.
Suicide is as stupid of a decision as murder. If you think murder is excusable in some fashion, then I'd imagine suicide would be excusable in some fashion as well.
Also, I don't like it when people commit suicide. If that could be interpreted as shunning, then yes, I shun the act and the people who follow through with it. I'd rather disapprove of such an act than be okay with it.
Refer to my previous statements. People need consistency. If death is a sad thing, as the world makes it out to be, then there has to be something bad after death. Like nothing. Which is bad. Unless, of course, you want to feel nothing. Then it gets... complicated.
If life after death is happiness and wonderful things, then people need to treat it as such. Facetious behavior doesn't bring anyone back, nor does it bring any consolation.
If they do, there's probably a deficiency in something else that would balance out their abnormal knowledge in a certain thing. It's fairly well documented that someone who's really good at something has a deficiency or deficiencies in other things to balance it out. Einstein couldn't tie his shoes, would wet himself while he was working, and was considered mentally retarded when he attended school. None of these mean he was stupid. I certainly don't think he was. He just had abnormal intelligence in some areas that resulted in deficiencies in other areas.
So, if someone has some intimate knowledge of some secret of the world that most adults seem to lack, then I'm willing to bet they're missing something else that makes such knowledge fairly difficult to grasp.
It's taking away their right to choose, then giving them the mental trauma that they have to live with afterward. Murder takes away the right to choose, but they give the victim an end to suffering. A rapist makes their victim suffer every day. Murder is a greater crime, but rape can break someone for life... and they can never really forget it.
One rape doesn't automatically overwrite everything else the other person did, but justifying a crime simply because someone else committed crimes isn't a way to balance out the scales. Kim deserves to be incarcerated and never see the light of day again, but Jim likewise deserves severe punishment for even once taking away that person's right to choose. Sentences accumulate, but trying to justify raping someone by saying, "Well, they did a lot of bad too," doesn't mean he should have raped her. That's not justice.
Also, not what my blog post was about.
I was actually hoping you would comment on this blog post.
I look forward to your opinions. You usually have very good ones, whether or not I want to agree with them. Delivery is an important part of debate, though, and you certainly didn't make me feel angry this time. Thank you.
2415122
Thank you for that insight.
That's... a fairly grim take on it.
2415260
I'm... not sure what you meant by that.
2415364 And, being that you believe that people enter the void post-mortem, you believe death should be a sad thing, right? Also, you're stereotyping again in the fact that you're assuming every single rape victim is permanently traumatized for life. Also, a flaw in your logic that you seemed to skip over was that murder hurts those close to the victim for the rest of their lives. Should a rape victim choose to not speak about the rape for whatever reason, they are the only person to suffer, but when someone is murdered, everyone close to the victim suffers.
2415418
The way I reconcile it in my head (probably flawed logic), those near the person murdered can choose how to react. The person raped never had a choice in how to react--they were acted upon in a manner that they couldn't choose the outcome of. Choice is a very important thing to me, and those who lose their choice on what they are or are not able to do are the most injured.
The end result of murder removes the suffering from the victim over their loss of choice. I think that making a person suffer for any length of time is wrong. When it comes down to it, I guess... that I'd rather a person be raped than murdered, but they'll never be the same after such a terrible thing. And before you ask, yes, I have experience with this. It's actually a little difficult to discuss this because of past decisions of others.
I do not fear death. I do not seek it, but when it arrives I'll welcome it with open hands.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to die, but I'm still learning to live again. Fourth years ago I almost take my life. I don't have a tragic past of any sort, my life have been "normal", but I felt empty, like something was missing. I always live my life in the moment, I never looked into the future, so when I graduate from school, I noticed that I didn't have a desire, something that pushed me forward, a reason to live. And it got worse when I lost all my friends.
I'm a shy person, always been, that's why I never had many friends. When the school ended, everyone I called ´my friend´ move on with their lives, but I stayed back. It was mostly my fault, as a shy person I never tried to contact them again. I slowly distanced myself from the world, trapping myself into a solitary shell.
I was alone and lacking of purpose, I was dying inside. That was when I hit the bottom and thought of suicide as a escape. I was about to do it when a new feeling began to grow inside me, Hate. A great dislike for humanity started to grow inside my heart, but as bad as it may sound, that hate give me a reason to live. I wasn't going to give up, if the world was going to show me its back, I was going to kick its ass. I'm not proud of it, but that thought of revenge pushed me to keep living. Though I'm not sure if I can say that that was to be alive.
I hated everything and everyone, what kind of live is that? I was even lonelier than before. It was then when I found the light. My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic was the thing that showed me how to live again. People around me always think that it's a simple TV show, but it means more to me. It showed happiness to my once dried heart. I even have 2 friends now! my bandmates.
I still don't feel fear of death but respect. Death is the only thing of which we can be 100% certain in life, and when death touch to my door, I'll welcome it with open hands.
This is a part of my life that not everyone knows, even my family ignore the fact that I almost took my life. I always tell myself that if weren't so shy, I could be a great actor. This is also why I love Luna so much, because as a character, we are very similar. We both know what it is to feel extreme loneliness.
hooo boy, this will be fun!
Well...if I knew what would happen when I die, I'd be terrified of confirming it. Think about what the 'coming back to tell us' would mean.
I contemplated it early then...and late in a sense as I 'revisited' my thoughts on it when I was 18.
That could be seen as really pretentious - I'd stop the death of everyone else if I could because I don't want them.
However I think you are referring to the choice of life, right? You live, therefore you chose to live at some point earlier. That choice is all well and good but 'you' chose when you were a cell at earliest with no brain formed. As a young child perhaps with no understanding of death. As a teenager which you've admitted that you are not wise enough for such a decision.
When are you old enough to decide YOU don't want to die and not think of yourself as foolish then? When is it okay to decide that the death of a loved one is not okay and when it is?
It is not that low. The percentage I mean. There are so many teenagers that think they need to act differently and that includes talking about the big mysteries. We also all must stand out at that point in life...I'm pretty sure a lot talk about considering it 'seriously' without ever bothering to do that in the first place. Especially when everyone else is talking about it.
But isn't society all but fake and mirrors? Do you really tell your chef he's a fucking asshole if he drinks his ass off and nearly ruins the company again? Do you really tell some police officer that he might be handling his or her job too harshly on some minority?
Society is full of beliefs, hell, the whole life you see only masks until you take the time to unravel the truth hidden behind. How bad is not understanding something we can't possibly grasp to understand compared to that?
Seeing as there was literally nothing else to do in such a perfect world/universe for them, why begrudge them? Immortality and the like is a pain in it's own. A human can be happy to forget if he relived horrors, Eldars didn't have that luxury.
(Also, they are too squishy to withstand any serious MORE DAKKAA! for any period of time
)
At least on that we both can agree easily.
Again...well, I'd be highly terrified of your judgement of who you'd 'let' live and who'd you let die. And I'm kinda your friend...at least I was at some point.
What if we become like the Eldar in that story? So happy to hurt ourselves and wishing to stop all that endless terror of simply existing for too long? I'm not agreeing with the idea of suicide but I stand by the point that everything and -one must listen to reason and be able to at least talked about. However, any such thing must be thought out and well planned, no kneejerk-response to scoring bod on an exam or anything inane like that.
and yet you make three of them right after
Sharing your thoughts is improtant. You can't simply NOT tell anyone about yourself in a place where other beings capable of understanding you are within reaching distance. That too is part of society.
Anyway. My basic plan with the whole thing is - I can't stop others, whether or not I want them too. Shit's happening in the world more often than not and I might not hear about someone dying if I try to save them. So why beat yourself up about it? If it is anyone I know AND I know beforehand, I'll try to talk them out of it but for people I've never met I just can't start caring enough to actually hate them.
Then again, my own view of life is screwy so what do I know?
death is a blessing
I walk out my door each day knowing that I could die whether it be unnatural or natural
there is a reason why death is a great thing
1.it ends the limits of elderly who in any case may be paraplegic, Paralyzed, Alzheimer's, and so on
2. it's a ticket to your heavens or hells for those who are scared of death are more likely to do wrong things and submit to eternal punishment while those who embrace death are more understanding and aware of what lies in their future
3. it is the ultimate end to suffering, hunger, cancer, tumors, cuts, depression, radiation, skin mutation, paralysis, disease, pestilence, and pain
2420072
That certainly isn't an outlook I hear often. I haven't heard of many who respect death itself.
We have all done things in our past which we regret. I am glad that you have found your way to here and now, and that I've gotten to know you, regardless of what brought you here. Perhaps hate saved you, but love will keep you safe.
2425493
Yes. To choose when to die, not when your body gives out on you or an accident steals it away.
In a sense, suicide provides you with that choice in lieu of a lack of one later. If we didn't die of old age or silly accidents, we could choose to die at any point. Since we're all going to die eventually, though, I see no reason to hasten it ourselves. To me, it feels extremely selfish to take one's own life.
Speaking strictly on the suicidal thoughts that teenagers all get, there's never really a point in life where suicidal thoughts become foolish--rather, your serious consideration of suicide becomes foolish. No one can stop what their mind thinks about or doesn't think about, which is why suicidal thoughts are a near-universal phenomenon. In that sense, thinking about dying is nothing special, but I wouldn't consider it something to be glorified.
This, of course, is the urges and potential actions of the individual that we're talking about. Following through on things that you get urges to do is typically due to peer pressure--smoking cigarettes, taking meth, breaking and entering, shoplifting... all great, shining examples of urges that are backed by peer pressure. In fact, a large portion of societal ills are caused because of the reinforcement that being a "bad" kid is cool. Attempting and committing suicide are both things that "bad" kids do--whether they be the edgy popular kids or the "outcasts" that do their absolute best to distance themselves from the edgy popular kids because they think popularity is uncool, they're doing what they think the "bad" kids do, like sheep. Like I did, and probably still do, much as I like to think I'm above anything. No one wants to be a sheep, but I think we all are, in a sense.
That's why talking about wanting to kill ourselves is "cool" in high school. At least, in my school of 400 as well as my school of 2000, it was. Whether small or large, general consensus was that suicide is "special kid" behavior, when, in fact, it was something that everyone discussed and considered.
That's what I mean, though. Everyone talks about doing it, but no one actually does it. In a school of 400, the likelihood that one of those 400 kids is actually going to commit suicide (or even seriously attempt it) is very low. However, I'm pretty sure that 100% of those kids considered committing suicide and spoke to their friends at some length about their desire to do so. That's standard behavior.
I advocate adherence to societal standards, no matter how silly and superfluous they may be. They usually exist for a good reason, whether we see it or not.
But that wasn't why they were happy to hurt themselves. I'm not sure how much you know about Eldar society, heheh.
Eldar, because they live for freakin' ever, can pursue many things in their lives. They don't die of old age and their medicines were hyper-advanced, so they hadn't had to worry about pathogens for a long, long time. If an Eldar died, their soul could be put into a specific vessel--more on this later. Mind you, this is all pre-Fall of the Eldar, which gave birth to the Dark Eldar and Slaanesh.
The way that the Eldar passed their incredibly long lives was to travel to separate Craftworlds--that is, ships so enormous that they could be considered new planets all their own. These Craftworlds focus on a specific profession. Say you go to a Craftworld with a focus of medicine. You go to this Craftworld and become very gifted in the field of medicine, so much so that you become considered a master of your craft. Then, since you've basically learned everything that you'll ever learn, you leave and go to a Craftworld that teaches engineering.
Any Eldar that chose not to abandon their profession after becoming a master of their craft was either a grandmaster and would stay on the Craftworld to help other Eldar reach mastery of their craft, or an outcast, because the Eldar shun other Eldar that don't want to learn.
Of course, there exists no Craftworld for "Pleasure Cults." If you want to get technical, Pleasure Cults did exactly what all Eldar love doing their entire lives: learn things. The only issue was that it harmed the Eldar, whether it was self-inflicted or done to others (seeing as the members of these Pleasure Cults were willing participants). They weren't even really shunned by society, I don't think--at least, not at this time.
Now, I mentioned that, even after death, Eldar souls could be retrieved from the Immaterium placed within a new vessel made from a material called wraithbone. This pertains to the universe mostly in the creation of Wraithguard and Wraithlords, but can also be seen as a form of immortality, even after death. You could say that not even death scared the Eldar.
Then, Slaanesh was born from the revelry in darkness that some of the Eldar were doing. The anguish that the Eldar felt in their painful release from physical embodiment, coupled with their powerful psychic ability, eventually gave birth to a new god of chaos, this one hungry to devour everything--including the souls of the Eldar departed.
Now, unless the Eldar souls are captured by the individual Craftworlds, they travel to the Immaterium and are devoured by Slaanesh. This, at least, is how I've come to understand it. Basically, killing themselves or others in such a manner was their undoing. The Pleasure Cults did a lot more than just enjoy harming and killing others.
Were I the one in control of mortal lives, I would let all of them die of old age. Everyone deserves to live a long and fulfilling life, regardless of what some people may say or think.
I don't. These were just milling around in my head and I needed to divulge them.
Children in Africa, who won't even reach the age where they're allowed to question their own mortality, will die today. Meanwhile, in the United States, a bunch of edgy teenagers think that first-world luxuries are so harrowing that death is the only option. When so many aren't even given the option on whether or not they want to live, I find it profoundly saddening that even more are willing to put their own feet into the grave.
2428169
Yeah, most people feel everything but respect to death.
But yes, hate ruled my life for almost five years, but now I'm walking the road of humility, or at least trying to.
And I'm also glad that I've met you. Maybe our paths are different, and maybe they will continue on different ways, but for now we are here.
Although there's one thing... even though I'm happy to be... happy now, there is something I'm missing. When I started to write I used my sadness as fuel for my stores, that's why all my stories but one are sad. Now I feel I lost something!
2428869
I couldn't possibly guess what that may be. We all lose something important to us eventually.
Guy, we've talk a fair bit, right?
Did I ever tell you that I once contemplated suicide? Must have been about 19 at the time. I don't even remember why I thought about it, but I did. And I suppose that I was just being stupid at the time. A right moron. At that point most of my body was still intact and most of my friends were still alive. I never did (obviously) but ever since then I have been of the mindset that death will happen and it is final. Don't run away from it but embrace it as yet another one of life's cruel adventures. If you can keep yourself ali e then do. But don't try to run away from it. If I knew that I had twenty minutes to live I would put the ketle on.
And if there is some kind of afterlife I will be very dissapointed.
2434696
I just don't think too critically on it.
That's exactly what scares so many of us: Death will happen and it is final. I find that terrifying.
Perhaps some find solace in embracing this, knowing that, no matter what happens, it all ends in death. I'm not that person.
But this... this, we can both agree on.
2434754
What I find terrifying is the fact that I'll have to leave people behind.
I also don't like spiders much, either. But death itself is quite trivial, quite... Simple. We already know all we need to know; it will happen, it may be a horrific way to go but at least you don't have to worry about paying the bills or feeding the cat.
And you don't have to remember when your partner's birthday is.
2434845
I remember the first time I ever watched something die--like, actually sat there and watched it die with my full attention. My biology teacher had a snake, and they fed it a mouse, and I watched it get the life squeezed out of it.
Watching as its eyes changed from bright red to dull red is one of the single most enlightening experiences of my life. I watched something die. I could have tried to stop it, but I let it die. That could just as easily happen to me someday. In fact, that will happen to me someday. Maybe I won't get throttled by a snake until I stop breathing, but I will die all the same.
2434872
You are so lucky that you only saw a mouse be eaten.
The first time I really paid attention to death was when it was a man standing in front of me and when I was the one putting a bullet through his skull.
Though it never really affected me like I thought it would. There was no big realization or life changing questions being answered. He's dead and I'm not. That was it. That's the only thing that crossed my mind.
It scared me. And it still does.
The way in which I shrugged it off and forgot about the signifficance of my actions so easily. I never saw the light go from his eyes. I was more concerned about the large amount of grey matter staining my clothes and face.
2434899
Yeah... I think ponies can help with that.
2434940 Actually, it was only a few days after my forced retirement that I started watching MLP.
My mood did improve a little after that.
2434952
As I expected.
2428169
Seeing as I fell asleep during reading your comment, we should talk more - my sleep shedule is in ruins
In a world where nothing is special for the average teen, in a world where everyone struggles to at least be something and still not manages to stand out, sucidal thoughts and actions probably are nothing more than a cry for attention. Sure, it sounds bad to kill yourself so that SOMEONE at least pays attention to you but the sad fact is that there are way too many people on the world and so any action won't be special.
Still, how can you say that any thoughts on suicide are foolish? Just because we all die? After all, everyone thinks about suicide so it might be something every person needs to go through. Even my brother (the guy who's considered autistic because the doctors don't know what he actually has) has those thoughts and he has quite the awesome life with more than enough attention if he so desires.
While I generally agree to that, none of these actions need to be related to peer pressure in any way. If you are too poor to even have food, you shoplift. If you have a really stressfull job, you might take up smoking and so on and so on.
Why can't I help but think of Michael Jacksons song about it...
Well...seeing as how society can be really harsh if you stick out the wrong way, I'd wager that being a 'sheep in the herd' is not as bad as it sounds. Especially if you have time on your own to be yourself and stand out.
Obviously your school of 400 was hit by some experimental beam and it quintupled. Be careful not to run into your other selves
I more or less want to know the why behind it. If I know that I can decide for myself if that is good or bad for me to follow that standard. Sometimes not behaving the way society expects you to can be quite rewarding.
Well...I've played two or three games with them (a part of the Dawn of War series) but seeing as I never really liked a race full of glass cannons I more or less learned only little bits and pieces about them. Their background story was not in there but there were mention of Slaanesh, the Dark Eldar, craftworlds, wraith bones and many little other things.
I am reminded of a time-travelling story (called MLP Loops) in which Pinkie turned into Slaanesh and had parties with all the presumably consumed souls...
So what happens when you visited them all? Seeing as there are a finite number of things to learn about but you live - practically - indefinitely, at some point you must have learned it all. Are you then simply shunned because you know it all?
I can't imagine that learning medicine doesn't hurt some Eldars at some point. Maybe they have a painless method for everything but my imagination is tampered by what I know of Earth technology.
Well, flying only is scary as long as you've had enough experience. But if I understand it correctly, no Eldar will be the same after being reborn, so in a way it's reincarnation, not immunity to death.
They also enjoyed it?
And the people commiting suicide would live on despite their injuries? What of people with incurable diseases that hurt them constantly? What of accidents that would kill you? Can you really say you'd stop them? Because I'm not sure how wise that would be. When driving a car you mind the laws because you don't want to get into a crash that might kill you. What if that wasn't there?
As nice as thinking about people dieing only of natural causes might be, our whole society is build around the inevitable cause of death if we behave wrong.
Ah, carry on then.
I think that 'First World', the never heard of 'Second World' and 'Third World' -countries handle these sort of questions and decisions differently. When you need to think about surviving constantly in some stupid fight about food, then you simply don't contemplate suicide. If your life makes you content and you have time doing nothing, people think about such things.
At least that is how I explain it to me.
2445562
Because killing oneself is just as selfish and shortsighted as killing someone else. You're just both the perpetrator and the victim. Things that impair our advancement as a progressive species would be seen as foolish. Cutting genes from the gene pool and limiting diversity, causing unnecessary grief and hardship on others close to you, basically going against every natural instinct that your body is screaming at you... all foolish actions. The first point is no better than Hitler's solution, the second point is a strong appeal to empathy, and the third point is just plain wrong, both in mother nature and in modern society.
Yet they are mostly perpetrated through peer pressure. I'd we weren't so susceptible to outside suggestion, cigarettes wouldn't exist... or, if they did, they wouldn't be so expensive. Peer pressure simply contributed to the spread of the things I listed
What Eldar spend most of their lives doing: searching for and acquiring knowledge. You don't have to be on a Craftworld to learn; I'd imagine only skilled trades would have such a devotion, but they're not the sum of all knowledge.
Of course I wouldn't want people to suffer. Pain, just like untimely death, is something I wish I could end.
2445781
Holy Moly, Double Post!
You're kinda missing my point there. I'm not calling your decision into question but my intent was to say that it is a necessary thing for every human to go through. 'It' in this case is the consideration, the thought, of killing, of lethality, every human tends to have.
But thinking about doing it and actually doing it are 2 different things, kike with your school of 400.
So you are saying peer pressure is bad? Or what point are you trying to make here? Just because we live in a society that has peer pressure tends to bring out the best or worst in people. Peer pressure motivates you to struggle more in a race. It gives you courage to make a big leap that might save your life. It will make you stand up to that guy that always bullied you and who tries to bully your friends.
I'm not saying that it isn't all good and roses and shit. But peer pressure itself isn't really the problem here.
The fat word is the interesting part to me. Up until now they seemed like a race that only researches. Only studies. That seems too extreme to me. There needs to be something else. Especially in a Warhammer setting.
But pain is necessary. Without pain, people would stop caring about self-injuries. That would lead to more death, more pain, more recklessness. Now if you would put death AND pain out of the whole equation I can see us becoming the same as Eldar.
Nothing we do has consequences to us in this case. Nothing we do will be final. Everything can be remedied at some point. It should sound like heaven but it's kinda the opposite really.
Do you know any old people? I mean, really old? Talk to them about life and death and listen to what they say. Ask them about their decisions and reasons for these decisions. You might see what I mean with my last paragraph then.