Twilight and her reactions to Iroh (The Jasmine Dragon) · 5:28am May 13th, 2014
After pages and pages of debate happening in the comments section of The Jasmine Dragon, I have decided that rather than have my response to those reviews get drowned in the conversation, I would make a single blog dedicated to the background of TJD and more specifically my views on what is going on in Twilight Sparkle's head as she appears in the story.
First: On the psychology of Twilight.
The behavior we see from Twilight through the series, and ESPECIALLY in seasons 1 and 2, (which are the ones that matter as far as The Jasmine Dragon goes) give us very solid grounding for an assumption if not outright confirmation of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.
We can cite her behavior in the episodes Lesson Zero and Its About Time as key examples of this.
In addition to this, we see several aspects of Asperger's Syndrome throughout the series, enough to make a tentative diagnosis, but certainly not enough alone for a formal diagnosis.
Examples include her difficulty making friends, especially in the second part of Friendship is Magic, where Twilight tries to enter the Everfree on her own and send the other five back to town. Her missing significant social cues in episodes like Look Before You Sleep, and her abnormally intense interest in a single subject - namely magic.
The criteria regarding an abnormally intense interest in a single subject could also be discounted as it is demonstrated fairly often throughout the series that most if not all ponies have an intense interest in matters relating to their cutie marks.
Recent Events
At the start of the story, the primary events of The Crystal Empire have just finished. The Mane 6 are all on the train headed back home and have no idea about the events going on in Ponyville.
Twilight is emotionally drained on several levels.
She has just said goodbye to Shining Armor in a much more significant way than when she had moved to Ponyville. In American terms, this isn't just a move from Washington to Baltimore; he's moving somewhere weird and exotic - like Canada! 
As a moderately strong introvert, she has just spent a very long time in an enclosed space with 6 others, only one of which is as much of an introvert as she is (Fluttershy) while having to deal with Rainbow Dash, Pinkie Pie and Rarity. None of which tend to be quiet, albeit for their own reasons. To top it off, Spike was sitting next to her playing with a tuning fork. (If you have access to a 4 year old and a tuning fork, see how long it takes before they start driving you up the wall.)
Having been away from home and her studies has also left her positively ITCHING to hit the books. I have personally seen someone who has OCD who was prevented from straightening a stack of papers on a desk across the room. After not very long at all, he would freely admit that the mess was actively annoying him and after a couple of hours claimed that being unable to straighten them was causing him physical pain.
Into the actual story.
It is with all this stress behind her that Twilight and her friends return to Ponyville. Spike is sent to get some small groceries to tide them over for the night, and Twilight goes home to do some light reading before she turns in for an early night, eager to get back into her routine the next day.
The next day Twilight has awoken and is a mere couple of hours into her first catch up study session of the day when Spike up and pulls a Godzilla on the town. You could almost hear the veins popping in her forehead over Spike's roars.
Twilight comes back from taming Spike more than slightly frazzled. The town is TRASHED and just when she thinks she can be useful, somepony has gotten there first! Everypony she meets seems to be gushing over this Iroh, who has been working tirelessly to free everypony who got trapped in a building and give directions to assist in the cleanup - horning in on HER niche.
To top it off, many ponies she has come across have a distinctly dull look in their eyes, not dissimilar to the looks of the ponies the changelings got hold of in Canterlot, or that the crystal ponies had before they were freed from Sombra. To her mind this is a clear indication that their minds are being messed with, and the prime suspect is the only new factor in town - Iroh.
On the kidnapping of Iroh
There has been some debate on Twilight's actions in the comments of the story (the major reason why I wrote this up in the first place).
First - Were Twilight's actions wrong?
According to who? As far as Twilight can tell she is clearly in the right. She is getting a potential menace off the street, and keeping it sedated in a non-violent manner until she can determine exactly what kind of threat it is.
By the laws of Equestria? We have no idea on this one. Does Iroh count as a sentient being? A foreign visitor? Simply a non-pony? We don't have enough evidence to tell one way or another. Maybe Equestria's laws are geared solely towards the safety of the four pony races, maybe they extend to include all sentients. We just don't have enough evidence to tell one way or another.
According to the residents of Ponyville? Iroh was helping us save lives! He is clearly a friend!
According to the changelings? Holy crap! Fire breathing thing that shoots lightning at will! Bad! Bad bad bad and even worse!
According to Iroh? That was annoying and I woke up naked... At least I finally got some real sleep.
Hopefully this shuts people up. For gods sake, even I knew what you were getting at, and I'm known around the neighborhood as the most oblivious nerd for miles.*
*Granted, I also have Aspergers, OCD, and Tourrettes, so that probably helped me recognize the clues....
2107318
Something I like to remember -
Intelligence is how smart you are, wisdom is how dumb you are not!
2107322 I'm adding that to my "Quotes and Random Facts" folder.
Two words: Fair enough.
2107326 I'm just waiting for the obligatory "Hey!" from a Canadian now...
2107337
2107337 *coughs*
I get your logic that you've used for Twilight. But...... If she's an antagonist, I'm most likely gonna bail.
2107399
Nope, not a villain.
2107401 Good. I know my Autistic Twi wouldn't do that. And ... Pardon me while I quibble, but I'd say Twilight's more BAP in the canon, especially more recently.
2107326
You have one too?!
Quite interesting how some debates come flying about even if it does turn into spaghetti at some point like the HiE story Immunity where there is quite a bit of spaghetti revolving around the main aspect of the character portrayed in the story, much like this one.
Even if some others don't say it, we thank you for clearing up the... I would say debate or mess but it seems to be a in a near fine line in between the two
I get it. I just don't like or agree with it.
But at least this blog post reminds me of something very important.
I forgot to unfollow you when I unfavorited the story.
Am I kidding? Maybe. Maybe I am just pissed off and will get over it. Or maybe you jumped the shark and good riddance. Haven't decided 100% either way yet. (95% one way and 5% the other right now.)
I was never arguing that she wouldn't do it, just that she was wrong for doing it. Most people would agree.
Of course it make senses and so That's why it happened.
I just wasn't sure On the time line that's all but I hope you would clear that up.
Thanks for writing this fic by the way.
This explanation is logical. It is the perfect example of a proof with evidence to justify a certain depiction of a character. I think people need to get over the fact that not every one of the mane six will act the same in fanfics as they do in the canon world. Just because the story isn't centered around changes in their behavior doesn't mean there won't be any!
I think the main problem is the serial nature of the story. This was all set up earlier (I think,) but people forgot about the setup, and thus it seemed to come out of nowhere. A regrettable but almost inevitable weakness of fan fiction.
(And in the unlikely event that the details weren't set up earlier, you might want to g back and slip them in. I won't tell anyone.)
2107474
I'll assume you are one of the readers I lost in chapter 18 then, where Twilight made very obviously bad choices and brought me a lot of hate, rather than chapter 19 which partially resolved that situation and seems to have done much the opposite.
Whichever way it was, thank you for the reading and very productive comments you tended to leave. I am sorry to see you go.
I in no way thought that Twilight's actions were out of character, or thought for a moment that she herself believed she was doing wrong.
My addition to the debate was that I felt her actions were unethical and - here's the kicker - exceeded her authority. Even assuming Iroh had been the threat she believed, the proper action would have been to send her concerns and conclusions to someone in the actual legal chain of command, and then act as instructed. It was my opinion that someone needed to call her on her actions, not for kidnapping and sedating Iroh - given her conclusions, that was proper action based on incomplete data - but the cruel way he was restrained.
Yes, I had no real issue with her snatching him, that was understandable. It was the restraint method I had issue with.
2108135 I can't recall if I have seen it in an actual episode, but the restraint I was referring to in the fic is the same one as from the Double Rainboom video.
However, yes! You hit the nail on the head there.
2108223
It's never been in an actual episode. It's a pure fan creation.
So my issue with it is the exact thing that will be later addressed?
2108227
She'll be called out on it. How much would involve spoilers.
2108238
Good to know.
2108135
And once again I can count on Tatsurou to be of sound mind, unlike many of the people I've dealt with.
2107474
You know, people often attack me for my unintentional wording of posts making me 'sound like a pompous asshole', but then you go and do it on purpose but people leave you alone. I'd say that makes no sense but I have no faith in humanity, so there's that. I'm also extremely unlucky. Curse you and your good luck, DPV.
2108405 Your reply to DPV is contradictory. You say no one is calling DPV out on his/her actions, yet you are calling DPV out. I'm putting out an opinion over whether you should/shouldn't have done that, just stating it happened.
2107337 Frankly there's so little Canadian anything in modern entertainment just insulting references make me happy.
2108405
It's also possible I was providing a personal demonstration of OOC to match what I feel about a post-Lesson Zero, post-Canterlot Wedding (we know Cadance taught her those breathing exercises after she nearly took the real Cadance's head off by not assessing a situation clearly) Twi randomly kidnapping a sapient creature who for all appearances was helping clean up a mess that Twi in canon should be partially blameing herself for since she is the one who had insufficient knowlwge of Dragon magic and allowed Spike's greed to go out of control. Now she goes of completely half-cocked with another creatute she had insufficient information about.
Yes. Yes that is quite OOC. That is very much a case of an author ignoring all characterization, continuity, and context and manufacturing their own to make a character's OOC actions seem IC in their story.
That is why I am angry and lost faith in the story, especially since there's this blog defending the decision.
See this is the type of comment I make when I am IC. So much better than OOC, no?
2108644
More in the lines of wording such as "Good riddance" and the like, and thus taking your reply too far. As far as the breathing exercises, she taught them to Twilight during the whole qualifying for Equestria Games bit, DPV dear. Not anywhere near the Wedding. By my recollection, that was just before Magical Mystery Cure, which is as far from the Wedding as you can get and still be in Season 3.
I also disagree with your (and others') unnecessary "THIS IS NOT CANON!111" approach to fanfiction on the grounds that it is fanfiction. I don't see you appearing on every story where Celestia is viewed as a malicious tyrant and Luna/Nightmare Moon some sort of victimized savior and speaking out against those authors. Is it just because it's Twilight?
2108639
-headpats- It was an observation. DPV him/herself would be aware if I'd been calling them out. I'm sure they've seen enough of me yelling at people and insulting them for being total assholes to know the difference.
2108405 I understand. I'm willing to still give this a chance, but I do not like the way he's making Twilight do things. It all seems like a huge occasion of gun jumping.
2110466
And I don't like the way many authors portray characters at certain points, but I don't raise a fuss and stop reading unless the author's a total jerk. From the sound of your earlier posts in this thread, you seem to be a Twilight-specific fan rather than just a concerned reader. Cast aside such notions and just read the story, enjoy what of the story you like, gloss over the parts you don't.
Bottom line basically is, "So what?" A fictional character in a custom, fictional world, did what its writer had it do, for reasons the writer believes fits the story and the role the writer wants for that character. That is how all stories go. There is no religious text saying a character 'must be' this way, and anyone trying to justify such thinking is either full of themselves or losing touch with reality. It all comes down to our preferences as readers, which is, in the end, just opinion. Unfortunately, many people have such a bloated opinion of their own opinions that they scramble around and attack people based on their headcanon and such.
Personally I hate how about half this site views and treats Celestia. But unless the story focuses on abusing that character and is the point of the story, I'm still going to get what enjoyment I can out of the writing. You dig my thinking? Go with the flow, have fun, enjoy yourself. Be entertained.
2110688 Wow... Umm, okay... I must have hit the wrong button.
Thank you for your advice. May I say that your tone didn't once offend me, and I was glad at how I read your tone to be. It seems kind.
Unfortunately, I have this problem. Characters are people in my eyes. I've read stories with this perspective probably since my preteens. Along the way, I ran into so many Manipledores (How I refer to manipulative Dumbledore fics) and Weasley bashing fics that I developed an obsession. You should see my obsessions and their effects; there are some people I hope I never get the chance to meet for fear I wind up on trial for killing. The effect of this obsession? I hate it when characters, especially beloved characters, are morally debased by writers. Evidence: My reaction to the abandonment scene in A Canterlot Wedding.
TL;DR? I can't stop obsessing. It's a big deal to me that my favourite characters are most of the time depicted at their best. My best fun comes from empathising with certain characters. Feeling joy with them, weeping with them, celebrating with them, on the level that they do. I know. I'm kind of freaky. But that's what makes me happy.
2111027
Well, that's a first. Most people tend to automatically view me as an asshole due to personal bias and inferiority complexes. Especially when I'm not trying to be a jerk.
That aside, I totally feel you on the connection to characters, but at the same time you have to separate your objective thought and subjective thought. Part of you knows better, and part of you shares that connection and keeps it sacrosanct. There are times you just have to take the reins and say, "Look brain, we're going to listen to the part that knows better, because that's reasonable and smart." Just as there are times when you can drop the reins and let the other part enjoy itself and graze freely on the plains.
You have the capacity, but the responsibility to act upon it rests in your hands alone, and is part of how (intelligent) people will judge you, whether they mean to or not. Still dig me?
Yeah, I guess it is something that wouldn't be unlikely for her to do, but... There are much more likely things for her to do. Likelyhood, however, does not always play into a story.
Mostly it just smarts because I have Asperger's but I'm actually functional thanks to ~7 years of intense therapy (and a couple more of light behind that), and everything's really much clearer now. Seeing 'unsocialized' autists is, well, a little disconcerting, since I very much used to be that way.
2111477 I'm still with you. I'm just afraid that my confusion and not-whole mindedness will turn any attempts at emotional control into psychopathy. That, and it is a matter of both quality and enjoyment for me that the characters stay true. It's just that I'm a lot more sensitive to the details of a person. I'll try to control myself, but it's like Castiel and hamburgers after a certain point, if you know what I mean. It's certainly an idée fixe of mine.
That's me.
I feel like your explanations make sense, but it becomes a case of All There In The Manual. That is the TV Trope of the explanation being in an extra-material source outside the source material (The Jasmine Dragon story itself). Not so bad when it's just a matter of a quibble but...
I was also bugged by Twilight's portrayal, and I felt an emphasis and exploration of her motives in-story would have helped.
2113504
Partially because of all this ruckus, I will be going a little more in depth as to her motives from her point of view in story, just be forewarned that it will not be as in depth as many would like, just simply because she is only supposed to be a minor/background character in this story, rather than the main focus.
2113504
I went and paid a visit to TV tropes when I saw your comment... 6 hours ago. How can a wiki be so time consuming?!
It gave me oh so many ideas, but it just killed an entire evening for me.
2107474 So you acting like a cunt will chase the anger away and solve your problem? Good riddance, indeed.
2115480
So am I a cunt for being genuinely upset about a character being portrayed in a way I seriously disagree with to the point it has near ruined my enjoyment of a story I had otherwise experienced great joy with?
It takes a lot to make me unfavorite a story. It is not easy for me to stop reading something I find compelling. It's like digging out a sliver. Makes a bloody mess but feels better in the long run than just living with it.
The author received plenty of flack for the way he portrayed Twilight and in response he said that she would get reproach for it. Well sorry but that is just not good enough for some readers. I am not a dick who will try to get an author to do a rewrite just because I don't like what they wrote but I sure as hell am not going to fail to let the author know that I am upset and that they have lost a reader.
Is it just my tone? The way I said what I did? Well I 'm not offering constructive criticism here. I am telling the author that something they wrote irked me enough that I don't want to read their story anymore.
I certainly did not insult the author or start calling anyone names. I never said the story was bad or badly written.
So which of us is in the wrong here? Me with what I said which ammounted to an opinion and displeasure regarding a characterization? Or you with 2 scentences that amount to an unwarranted verbal bashing of another reader?
Look in the mirror and read your comment aloud. Then it will be addressed to the right person.
2115551
I was wrong and I'm sorry. You're not a cunt - just incredibly whiny.
If your enjoyment was ruined by something that is insignificant in the long run you're probably not worth having around either way - anywhere. I'll admit, I've had loads of 'irks' with this story but that hasn't stopped me from enjoying it. But that attitude is reserved for the dumb one, that's fine.
You say it "takes a lot" for you to unfavorite a story, but evidently it doesn't. If anything it just takes whatever minor inconvenience you just might happen to find displeasing, in this case just a character being potrayed in a way you found to be 'OOC'.
The matter of which one is wrong actually comes down to who's the most immature: the guy who lets all his enjoyment he (apparently) got from a story he claims to have liked ruined or the guy who lets him know how whiny he sounds - while handing out obscenities like they were fliers from Jehovah's Witnesses.
And wow, rush me to the Burn Unit...
Don't worry, I've looked at myself in the mirror plenty of times and arrived at the conclusion of "yes, that is the biggest cunt I've seen", so no problem there. Say, have you tried the same but with "complaining"?
2115787
What can I say? Fanfiction is srs bsns yo.
2115797 yeh srsly (again, good riddance)
2113819
>>LongreachJones
TVTropes Will Ruin Your Life is, itself, a trope.
And the moral of the story?
You just don't want to be some extraordinary being, that's new and different from any other inhabitant of that small gallic village.
Lest the OCD and asperger suffering purple pastel pony will come and make you her next science project.
There will be never ending questions,
There will be never ending books
There will be uncomfortable touching... also in areas that are reserved for a more intimate education... then again this is Twilight after all, so she probably intents to get intimately educated by her anomaly in possession, sooner or later.
Just remember, IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT WHEN SHE WANTS YOU TO TEACH HER!
She left you no choice...