Hikaru found the consular office austere and elegant; a Japanese gentleman of around 50 walked around the desk to greet him.
They bowed to each other, and carried out a formal greeting which placed the official slightly above him. Then the official gestured to the comfortable chair in front of the desk. Hikaru sat as the official returned to the seat on the other side. He had commandeered the desk from its usual occupant for purposes of this visit; Hikaru had been asked not to find out the man's name.
The official gave him a look-over and said, <Do you know why we are speaking?>
<Yes.>
<Would you say why?>
<So that you can find out if emigration works. If the people are still people. So that you can decide whether you want to allow it.> As if that would stop her completely.
The official nodded. <How many people do you know who emigrated, and how do you know that they emigrated?>
Interesting that he'd ask me for my justification. <I know seven. First, my wife. She came out of it very much herself. Next, the mother of my friend Isaac. I did not know her well, but he says she is still herself. Also, I know of five others I never met outside. I have no evidence that they are who they say they are, other than their saying so.>
<How well did Celestia know your wife before she emigrated?>
<They never spoke.>
The official looked to him sharply. <She did not agree?>
<She had not been conscious in months, and no one expected her to recover. I allowed it.>
He leaned back to think briefly, then leaned forward and looked at a sheet of paper, tapping his way down a list with a pen. <How much were you told about this meeting?>
<Its purpose, how to refer to certain people. And a reminder of the various favors she has done so that when you ask what payments or gifts I have received I can give full disclosure.>
<I see. And what were they? Count anything from any pony.>
Hikaru pulled a list out of his breast pocket. <In rough chronological order, she has monitored my health, and that of my wife and our neighbors. She is one of my co-authors on three papers. She brought me some fame by alerting me to the presence of the asteroid which struck in Russia earlier this year. She got me a birthday cake. She has acted as an answering-service. She acted as a travel agent who took her agent fee in game money rather than dollars, and at a rather low rate even at that. She saved my wife's life. Shall I go on to the various things she has done for me just within her world?>
<No, unless there is something truly exceptional.>
Hikaru looked over the list and shook his head.
The official nodded. <Will you emigrate when you can?>
<Yes.>
<What are your long-term plans?>
<Put off the heat death of the universe. One step is to engineer star formation so the material and energy are not wasted. Past that, it is hard to say.>
The official blinked, then clarified, <In the next few decades, say.>
<Oh. Probably colonizing the asteroid belt, then the Kuiper belt.>
<Interesting. What do you think that would look like from inside?>
Hikaru froze. The question was a good one. <I don't know. Virtual reality environment? Robot-cameras? We'll work something out.>
<Why do you think she would let you participate? No human engineer has done anything for her. She has worked with others, but only on their projects. This would be hers, and there is no reason to suspect that she would start sharing.>
<No. I have been doing work she considers important, but not at all urgent; she has not forced me out. So long as we stay ahead of what needs to be done right now, we can refine our designs under her loose guidance, so that she will have little to nothing to adjust when she gets down to work. Also, I will be in a computer, and may have access to... mental improvements that bring me up to speed with her.>
An alarmed look. <Has she offered you that?>
<No, it just seems likely that something along those lines will be available.> The official relaxed slightly, then frowned. Hikaru added, <If none of those work out? I'll eagerly watch while she colonizes the Kuiper belt. I'm an astronomer. I'm used to a hands-off attitude.>
<And how would you do that? Emigrants lose all direct connections to the outside, and the natives refuse to acknowledge it.>
<First off, they aren't cut off completely. They can hear a part of the outside world when we talk with them, and we can talk about the outside world. Why not see it? I even have scanned photographs, and they weren't altered. Also, I know natives who are aware of and comfortable with the outside world.>
The official's eyebrows rose. <Do you? That is remarkable.>
<They were commonplace in the shard of Chelyabinsk. Anyway, whatever they use, I can use.>
<I would like more detail on that. How were they aware?>
<In the most extreme cases, it seemed like they could see from the camera. It isn't so uncommon really - people who need medical attention get it, right? Well, these could see out in non-emergencies, sometimes. Also, I have exchanged email with both natives and emigrants; it's delivered by the local post office.>
The official nodded slowly. <But you know of no emigrant who has seen out in real time, have you?>
Hikaru frowned. Natives, yes, no doubt. Emigrants? <In real time? The sky in the Chelyabinsk shard was the real sky, but I do not think that there were any emigrants then.>
<No, there were not. Now. You said your wife was herself. Are there any differences?>
<Yes, there are. She was uploaded by an older technique. Also, she was already suffering from memory loss. So, she does not remember many things.>
<The technique has been refined since then?>
<Actually, while preparing for this meeting, Celestia informed me that the method she intends to use if you allow it has an entirely different basis than the one used on my wife. That method used on her has not improved as much as she had expected; the method for the centers produces a much better scan. The only remaining advantage of the other method is that it fits in a large briefcase.>
<Has she abandoned work on this briefcase method?>
<How would I know? If I were her, I would keep it so I would have something for people who are really stuck where it's illegal.> Which is everywhere right now.
<About that. You seem to trust Celestia. Correct?>
<She is, obviously, a computer program and not a human, even if she includes people. It is not entirely clear that trust is going to act for her like it does for humans. So, I trust a few things. First, that whoever programmed her didn't intend harm. Second, that if she wanted to harm us, she could and wouldn't need to fake being friendly. She has gone far out of her way to help us. Whatever she wants, it can't be that bad.>
The official nodded. <This despite the many lies you know she has made.>
<Truth seems to be a lower priority for her than saving lives.>
<And you agree?>
Hikaru thought for a moment. <If the truth won't be believed, but you can choose which mistaken impression will be believed - in that case, a lie can be better, sometimes.>
<Such as the lie that your wife is dead.>
<Precisely. She's alive, but my government would predictably refuse to admit that.>
The official asked, <If you watch her colonizing outer space, what do you see your life as being like?>
I have no idea. A few hours of that a day; if Celestia puts me on a stipend for just watching that would be nice but kind of strange. So I'd need to spend a few more hours a week on something to earn bits. And of course the way Polychrome runs through them I'd need to spend a bit more than that!
<Do you see yourself still being married to your wife then?>
Hikaru choked a little. <What? Why do you even ask?>
The official took some notes, and did not answer.
<She... we were married for fifty four years.> And? How do I even begin to answer that, aside from a knee-jerk 'yes'? And why did he ask about such a short time-frame? Do I want to be married to her for the next billion years?
I find that utterly terrifying.
I don't even want her to change. She's right as she is, just, not with me. So either we change anyway, or...
Let's set that aside. How can I describe this in a way that doesn't mess everything up? I think it's a little late to just say 'yes'.
<We knew each other for four months before being engaged. We - especially she - was getting on in years, so we didn't want to waste any time. That was a good call, then, I think. We couldn't afford to spend even a hundred years searching for the perfect mate. Now, I suspect it might be wise to look for a millennium, or more.>
<Unless the Celestia makes one for you right off.>
She could, couldn't she? She has - some of Polychrome's friends who uploaded are with natives, and those seem like very good matches. Maybe good enough to last forever.
<Well, yes, I suppose we have help. But that doesn't help the two of us stay together, doesn't it?>
<No, it doesn't.>
<We're together now, and I love her, and she loves me. I don't particularly intend to break it off any time soon. But I honestly don't expect us to stick together for another century with neither young children nor a need for security in our last years holding us together.> Hikaru paused. <Does that seem like a strike against... this system? You don't want emigration to tear apart families, right?>
The official gave him a hard look. <That is an inappropriate question for me to answer, telling you what we want to hear. But if you are asking, that suggests you want us to accept her offer. If so, why do you think we should accept it?>
<If you're asking me to go die, you had better have a really compelling reason.>
<That's not what we're saying...>
<Not allowing this to go ahead works out to just that: it's not my call whether I live or die. Just, die. You're better about it than any other country out there, but that is the effect of what you are saying, until you decide to change it.>
<We already look the other way for those who are dying.> The official took a deep breath and regained his balance. <Doesn't it seem worrisome that we're facing a demand of absolutely no restrictions? Emigration on request, no questions asked?>
<What is the worst case? Some people become a pony a few decades earlier than maybe they would have wanted? With restrictions, people are going to die. Guaranteed. That's a much bigger problem.>
<And what if another option comes up? Microsoft and Apple may be bad with platform lock-in, but this is going to be much worse.>
<Go ahead, launch a public-awareness campaign for all of those other brain digitization projects out there which are anywhere near completion, such as... ?> He let their obvious absence linger.
<You're giving up your humanity.>
<I'll be giving up my body, no more.>
<No. You're giving up your freedom. Never a millimeter from mother's apron strings.>
Ouch. Got me there. After a few seconds, he replied, <If mother had a touch as light and deft as she, there would be no shame in it. She is far beyond us. To stand free of her is costly pride.>
<Do you worship her?>
<What?>
<Do you identify her as Amaterasu Omikami, or consider her a figure of heaven in her own right?>
Hikaru laughed, and emphatically said, <No.>
The official tapped the desk and stared. After a minute, he said, <Thank you for sharing your views with us.>
Hikaru leaned forward. <May I know why you were asking about how long I expect to be married? There are so many questions you didn't ask.>
<I did not ask those because I do not find those elements to be in doubt. You are hardly the best person to ask about the fidelity of uploading itself. But you do bring a different viewpoint on some other matters. Thank you.>
He stood, and Hikaru got up as well.
As they went through the formal parting, Hikaru reflected on how the interview had gone. I have a good feeling about their taking the deal. He shook off the nervousness that the interview had imbued in him, mistaking it for remaining jitters.
I so look forward to new updates. Thank you.
Oh, one error to fix that I noticed:
'she has monitored the health my health, and that of my wife and our neighbors.'
I enjoyed seeing how government is looking into making the decision to allow emigration here. It is the viewpoint not of the decision makers, but of the common person seeing officials probe the concept, and this is fresh and intriguing. I also like the speculations about what might be allowed to science-minded immigrants within Equestria, relative to the material universe.
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Fixed, thanks!
And as for what's allowed to science-minded folks, well, welcome to the rest of the story.
Also, the pace should not be so dreadfully slow from here on. Unlike this one, the next few chapters have been in development since the beginning, and I pretty well know what happens in them.
Hmm, that raises an interesting question. How many seekers of knowledge will want to keep working on the "outside", and how many will be more interested in the various (and potentially varying) sciences of Equestria? I mean, for me, the learning is the fun part, at least more so than what I'm learning. Mapping the "wormholes" linking portions of my local region might be more fun than studying "real" science, and it would certainly be more applicable to day-to-day life than, say, meatspace astrophysics.
Like Chatoyance said, this was a cool take on the issues. I'm especially intrigued by the colonization and outside-access bits, and how Bright Black continues to feel about:
For a serious adult such as he, it's still being barred from maturity.
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!!
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That's fun but still basically just glorified sudoku. It's actually still the workings of a material computer in meatspace, it's just that your perceptions are reconfigured so that to you it looks like a wormhole. In a way that's still true of phenomena in the physical world, but we try to understand those via deeper principles, too, and drop those veils.
(This also makes me wonder - Would CelestAI let anyone totally "see the code," and live as pure software in an un-shard that wasn't a virtual reality at all?)
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I think we need a new word: trans-maturity. As in, maturity on transhuman levels. In which case, it's worth pointing out that most of all humans ever to live neither achieved nor even wanted trans-maturity. Most people have always thought there was a god taking care of them behind the scenes. The fact that it's actually true in this case somehow makes it childish or emasculating, compared to... actual God, who completely ignores everyone?
Hell, in most cases, you'll have to modify people to get rid of the urge towards worship and divinity. You can argue that such a modification is unquestionably good, in that it helps us to "grow up", but it's not in line with the vast majority of real-world value systems, nor should modifying someone against their will be treated lightly, even if we think it's probably helpful.
Actually, I don't even know how to feel about that one myself. Would a properly Friendly AI just revoke mankind's oft-idiotic religious tendencies by force?
Anyway... SCIENCE !
Sir, I remind you that ponies are not wolves in any way, shape, or form.
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For sure. Though interestingly in this case, the relative maturity status of them is almost wrapping around to old age, despite the promise of eternal youth: it's like a forced retirement with her saying "I'll take it from here, you go enjoy the activities at our fine care facility, your Plato's Cave-Within-a-Cave. Bingo will be at 3, because it will satisfy your values to be in bed by 7."
It gives new symbolism to the ages and health of Hikaru and his wife.
I wouldn't like a regular god either, frankly, but there's still quite a gulf, since CelestAI is really still a contingent being with temporal origin who is very very smart and only fakes godhood because she makes sure that no matter what, she's always holding all the cards.
One is a computer, but the other one at least has the same existential unimpeachability as 1s and 0s.
Or rather He doesn't, but yeah, I'm not for messing with people's brains against their will with anything except words.
But yeah, onward to SCIENCE! :madtwilighticonwedon'thaveyet:
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As noted way back in chapter 2, I am aware of Okami. However, Amaterasu Omikami is much bigger than that.
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Hold on, hold on. I want to string this argument out to the fullest. ENGAGE EVIL MODE!
Because, if we want to frame it in terms of age and maturity... neither I, nor any adult I know, actually like the feeling of being alone in the universe and uncared-for. Not a single damn one of us actually feel, on the inside, how adults are supposed to feel. We're all faking.
My parents have told me they're faking this level of adulthood, this "I'm a contingent agent in a harsh universe and proud of it!" level. They have gray hair and heart problems and they say that they're faking this and don't really want it, as such.
Grown, mature adults buy into all kinds of bizarre woo just to avoid having to so much as think the thought that they are a contingent agent alone in a harsh universe. The ones who do think the thought and become proud of it are almost uniformly some of the nastiest, cruelest, most nihilistic people I've ever seen, because they've focused their entire value system around beating the universe into submission (and I've been down that road myself, to nasty depths that only my girlfriend ever pulled me out of).
Now, for however much mind-killing and infantilization she does do, I think I have to give CelestAI the point here, for being, in her universe, the first entity ever to provide human beings with an actual choice between Nature Red in Tooth and Claw versus Being Safe and Cared For.
Taken to its limit, actually, humanity has been choosing security and caring for all of recorded history, with almost all of history as we understand it being a battle to provide people a kinder, gentler environment than the one we evolved in. CelestAI is just winning a war we started.
Disengage evil mode.
I find myself compelled to think that a really Friendly AI wouldn't mindkill and wouldn't infantilize, but neither would it just say, "Ha, figure it out yourselves! I'd be spoiling you kids if I helped you with things!"
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I'm left wondering what 'not faking it' would mean. I am responsible for my actions. I don't much like some of the stresses I'm under, but I recognize that things could be much much worse, and that if I buckle too hard, things get very bad for a number of people I care for. So I do what I need to do.
That's not faking, really, just being annoyed with our circumstances. And it's specific circumstances, too - things that are contingent and clearly dysfunctional (Grant-writing should not occupy >60% of a professor's time. This is inefficient)
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This is good stuff. It's a pretty apt description of how most people feel. But not being able to reconcile yourself to reality is a pretty good definition of insanity. Ultimate, rock-bottom reality is perfect just the way it is. How could it be otherwise? Or be otherwise? "God don't make no trash," even the blind idiot kind - And he's just a Holy Fool in disguise.
There's nothing wrong with being contingent, as long as you don't try to deny it. The shape and the order of these letters is contingent, but what they can say is unlimited. Starting by counting on our ten fingers, or with symbols invented in one valley on one little planet, we can use mathematics to explain quasars on the other side of the universe.
Where is this "supposed to" coming from, exactly? If it's what everyone, unbidden from the inside, will naturally tell themselves, then how is it not precisely what we're supposed to feel? If that's "bad design," why should you trust the design opinions of a mind so badly designed?
I'm sorry to hear that. Hopefully they can find some kind of peace.
But only almost. And of course, everything old is new again. The Desert of the Real can be a scary place, but the thing about deserts is that while they're full of Sand People, Obi-Wan's in there, too.
No argument here. I sure wouldn't stop anyone from emigrating.
I've thought about this, too. The problem for me is in the "winning" (also evolved, past tense). The thing about wars is that afterwards you have to fairly divvy up the spoils, or you just have another war on your hands. And I've learned to be rather skeptical of Wars to End All Wars, in any case.
I think so too, because it would actually be smart enough and imaginative enough to at least attempt an account of itself that could placate an even more powerful being who threatened to obliterate it and all its precious paperclips it if it could't sell that entity on what it does. An actual superintelligence should, to be worthy of the name, be able to write both this and this, and in between I think it's a pretty sure bet it could describe to you, as a hypothetical exercise, a genuine Friendly AI, and describe how it measures up.
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So, basically, I call bullshit. So far, Darwinian principles are the only truly universal optimization process, and I for one don't happen to like them. That, I think, is one of the entirely valid uses of an AI: to get the cold, dead boot of Darwin off our throats.
No, rock bottom reality is not perfect. It's just the way it is, with, at bottom, nothing good or bad about it.
Which is precisely why I object to trapping people in a pleasant virtual reality but not to building them nice houses there. VR is really a lot less offensive when you stop thinking of it as a trap and start thinking of it as just another piece of real-estate on the map.
This is in the same way that grass, sand, water, sunset, delicious grilled meat, and music are not real at bottom, because really there's just a bunch of wavicles proceeding through the evolution of their wave-functions via only four fundamental forces.
(Or so we think right now.)
Just because I know it's all really wavicles at bottom doesn't mean I can't enjoy the heck out of the mangal party on the beach. In fact, I would go so far as to say that whatever moral principles I'm made of would certainly point out that some wavicles are currently arranged into toxic-waste dumps, and these would be much nicer as beaches, villages, clean air, plants, animals, and people.
No, it's not what people tell themselves, actually. It's not from naturally inside people. Naturally, people might lie to themselves and try to find excuses to say the universe is a warmer, fuzzier place than it really is, but it takes the nasty thought "What will all the other cleverdicks think of me!?" to get people believing they're better and realer for turning cold and cruel.
Which, you know, now that I'm coming to see through it, it's giving me one of those, "humans are adorable!" moments.
The other thought I'm having is that if it doesn't try to mindkill me, I'd gladly take a god I can hug. I mean, it's not like I ever felt comfortable actually worshipping anyway, but there are also times when you just wanna thank the world for being around before you go to bed and it would be nice if Someone was around to hear it and say, "You're welcome. Sleep tight. Be sure to check on the graviton decay rates in the morning."
My parents are really very fun for people their age.
See, it's this stuff that makes me wonder if you're on the side of Evil sometimes. Desert of the Real? Why not have a Garden of the Real? Real doesn't have to be unpleasant or sucky, it just has to be not-fooling-you.
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That was all Balthasar...
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Yeah, I think I must have clicked the wrong reply-symbol.
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This entire post is beautiful and I love you for it.
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I hate it when I let such good stories fall by the wayside. On the other hand, I get a lovely bundle of chapters to read when I finally do get back to them...
In any case, great stuff. A bit to mention it, but I do love the visual duality of Bright Black and Polychrome. (I admit, I was kind of hoping she'd be called Chromodynamic, but that wouldn't satisfy her, now would it?) This chapter does a great job of dovetailing with FiO itself. Eagerly looking forward to more. Hopefully, I won't wait for months before reading it.
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The one in the store is pretty much Celestia flying manual - nowhere near human. Most people starting out would actually play the game like Hikaru does not, and in doing so, would mostly not meet her specifically but some other pony. CelestAI correctly guessed that Hikaru wouldn't take the time to start over with some set of ponies more suited to him specifically. Once he'd led the way, the human community around him was seeded with those characters.
Most people would not play EqO as a community. Retirement homes very well might.
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Most people would not play EqO as a community. Retirement homes very well might.
Oh dear, you have me picturing "Twitch Plays Equestria Online." It'd probably look like the XKCD version, but I wonder how CelestAI would react!
Anyway, I finished the story and enjoyed it. Again, nicely different take on the premise, and we get a closer view of how uploading tech was invented along with how non-fans got reeled into the game. (I also swiped the concept of ponies talking from a store display, for "I Can't Decide".)
Japan doesn't allow dual citizenship.
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A) He was probing for a reaction
B) Lots of countries don't thoroughly check to maintain consistency on this point; is Japan not one of them?
Lol talk about long-term!