Chapter 13: Rainbow's Boast and Fluttershy's Plan
Rainbow's Boast
"So what's going on in there, already?" complained Rainbow Dash, hovering in the middle of the room with her forelegs crossed, indicating the closed door to Twilight's study with her nose. "There's been more than enough time for Princess Luna to tell Twilight whatever she meant to tell her about Discord!"
They had been waiting for about an hour now. There had been a brief early excitement as Rainbow darted off to fetch Scootaloo and Featherweight, but she had secured them swiftly enough and brought them to the library safe and sound. Discord, whatever his ultimate intentions, did not at present seem inclined to harm either of the two young Pegasi. Yet.
Scootaloo was of course glad to be able to spend time with her heroine, though she was a bit bummed to be spending this time locked up with her in a library At first, Rainbow had entertained her with a tale of some trouble Rainbow had gotten into as a filly in Cloudsdale: Rainbow had managed to make it sound like an amazing adventure. But now, Rainbow herself was getting bored -- and impatient.
"I'd s'pose they're talking about Discord," Applejack replied. "And how to deal with him. You know -- what they said they were going to talk about?"
Rainbow snorted, lowering her head onto her crossed forelegs, then coming down to make a graceful landing. "Well, I just wish they'd come to a decision," she said. "Then we could go out and try their plan -- it'd fail, of course, because we all underestimated Discord, so then we'd all be at his mercy, except me 'cause he knocked me out at the start of the fight, and then -- just as he was about to finish all of you off -- I'd come rocketing in and give him a Sonic Rainboom to the face -- KA-POW! -- and save the day!" Her mood gradually improved during her pre-counting of these future glories, until at the end she was beaming in happy anticipation of her intended daring deeds. "Oh, yeah!" she concluded, and high-hoofed the adoring Scootaloo.
"Does that little play come with musical accompaniment?" Applejack inquired drily.
"Ooh yes!" squeaked Pinkie Pie, entering the conversation. "This tune!" She pointed off in some indescribable direction.
The other Ponies tried to follow Pinkie's indication. Their visions blurred and they felt momentary headaches, so they quickly gave up the attempt.
"Have you ever noticed," asked Rarity a bit acidly, "just how many of your plans boil down to 'fly really fast and hit it in the face?'"
"Your point being?" replied Rainbow, nonchalantly inspecting one of her fore-hooves.
"Well, darling, isn't it a trifle crude?"
"Eh, some Ponies like unnecessary complexity," replied Rainbow. "All fancy with ribbons and bows on it. Me, I figure that if a simple plan works, why mess with perfection?"
"But it never works!" protested Rarity.
"Well, I wouldn't exactly say that," replied Rainbow.
"When has it ever worked?" demanded Rarity. "When? Ever?"
"What about when I fought that manticore?" pointed out Rainbow.
"What? You never hit him in the face! I hit him in the face!" insisted Rarity indignantly.
"And did it work?" asked Rainbow, inspecting the other hoof.
"No! All it did was anger the brute! I was lucky to escape with my life!"
"Now see, that's the difference between us," argued Rainbow Dash. "You just don't know how to do it right. If I'd hit the manticore in the face, it would have worked."
"What?!!" cried Rarity.
"Yep," continued Rainbow, grinning. "I'm just that much more awesome than you."
"Oooh!!!" cried Rarity in frustration. "You are insufferably arrogant, do you know that?"
"Course I do," Rainbow replied with a broad grin. "I've worked long and hard on my attitude."
***
Fluttershy's Plan
Fluttershy smiled as she watched her two best friends bickering. She could tell there was no real malice in their argument -- she could directly taste their emotions, and in any case she well knew their natures. They were arguing, of course, to take their minds off their very real fear of Discord. They thought he would do something terrible, and they would have to engage him in life-threatening combat.
Fluttershy knew better. She knew that Discord loved her, and that if she could only talk to him she could calm him down. She remembered Discord the way he had been when he had first broken out of his stone prison three years ago, and how he had been when he'd first been paroled, and the way he was now. One of the reasons why Princess Celestia trusted her with the great responsibility of being Discord's friend was that she could directly sense his emotions, too.
Between the time he'd first broken free and first been paroled something had changed Discord. Fluttershy wasn't sure exactly what, but Princess Celestia had privately told her that she had talked to Discord in between those two events, and Fluttershy had seen Celestia and Discord together since his parole. She could sense the bonds of old love between them. This told her that Celestia had once been very close to Discord, which must mean that he once must have been a very different person.
Fluttershy was certain Discord cared for her -- she'd known that he had even when first paroled, which is why she'd had the confidence to use his caring as reins by which to restrain him. They'd spent many happy hours together since then, sharing ideas, showing each other things, sometimes just chatting about nothing at all or companionably cuddling. On reflection, thought Fluttershy, I should have realized he liked me more than just as a friend, from that last part.
But how was I to know? I've only really had four really good friends in my life -- Rainbow, Rarity, Bulk and Discord. And Rainbow was and Bulk is my lover. And I guess Dissy wants to be my lover. I wonder if that's normal? Do most Ponies find that most of the Ponies who really like them also want to make love to them?
Fluttershy was less innocent in the ways of the world than she had been four and a half years ago, when she'd taken that first fateful walk through the woods to the Castle of the Two Royal Pony Sisters. But she was still fairly innocent, by the standards of most mares in their twenties. And she still found Ponies hard to understand, compared to small mammals and songbirds.
And Dissy's not even a Pony -- though Celestia told me he was raised by Ponies. I suppose that's why he likes me that way. She thought about the situation. Now that she was calming down -- strangely, at the same time that everypony else was tensing up -- she was finally able to ask herself the question which was crucial to the whole situation. Do I like Dissy that way?
The question was surprisingly difficult to answer. Because on the one hand, the answer was obvious. Yes. Of course I like him that way. She loved Discord's company, his keen intellect, his tremendous creativity, the gentleness and warmth he showed her. This was the side of Discord she'd seen ever since he'd realized he really valued her friendship.
And to Fluttershy, who had been forced to invent her own strange code of morality, with very little reference to normal Pony ways, strong mutual friendship accompanied by sexual attraction on the part of the other almost-automatically aroused her in return. The main reason why Fluttershy was not promiscuous was simply that she did not have many sapient friends, and of the ones she had, only three were attracted to her in such a fashion.
Fluttershy was generally aware that most Ponies would have considered her attitude somewhat scandalous. So she did not explicitly tell them about it. She was far too naive to realize the potential trouble into which this approach might get her.
It had been her great good fortune that the first Pony to ever love her in such a fashion, Rainbow Dash, loved her unselfishly and loyally, to such an intensity that nothing short of outright hatred on Fluttershy's part could have ever shaken her devotion. It was her next great good fortune that Bulk Biceps almost worshipped her. Both had similarly great hearts, too great to be much moved by merely jealous motivations.
It was not really very surprising that her luck would eventually run out, as it had with Discord. One may be a goddess, but then one attracts the notice of gods. And gods are proverbially jealous beings.
So, ironically, it was the Draconequus whose response to what he perceived as Fluttershy's faithlessness -- despite the fact that Fluttershy had promised him no fidelity -- in fact promised him nothing, since he had still even now made her no declaration of love -- whose reaction to Fluttershy's innocently sensual approach to Love and Friendship was closest to the Pony norm. In a backwards and confused sort of way, which was really the way that Discord dealt with life in general.
So she wondered what to do. Should she tell Discord she loved him? But what if he wanted her to give up Bulk, or (even worse) Rainbow? She was not currently the lover of Rainbow Dash, but she assumed they might be again in the future -- their love affair had been on and off before -- and she certainly would never give up Dashie's friendship, not even under threat of personal annihilation, for it had been the one good constant of her existence.
Bulkie was a newer resident in her affections, but in a few short months she had come to love him very dearly, and even were she inclined to do so she had too few really good friends to lose one of them. She suspected that if she rejected his sexual love at this point in their lives, especially under threat from Discord, that she would lose his friendship as well -- a loss which she would find very sorrowful.
And she knew from animal handling that it was a very bad idea to back down too readily before something big and dangerous, lest it learn that it could spook oneself. Discord, despite his vast intellect, was in many ways to her just an especially big and dangerous animal, when he got cranky. This was a comparison she judged unwise to make to his face. But then, to some extent she dealt with everypony with the skills she had learned from handling animals -- something which all her friends seemed to figure out when they had known her long enough.
She knew what she really wanted, of course. The obvious solution. It seemed obvious enough to her, anyway.
But sometimes the solutions which seemed obvious to her were ones nopony else thought reasonable.
Other Ponies were funny that way. And, she supposed, also Draconequii who thought like Ponies.
Fluttershy contemplated her obvious solution and hoped that the others would accept it.
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Well, that sounds somewhat familiar. What's one hundred over four again?
>go youtube
You go Youtube.
It is pink. You are likely to party with a grue.
I paused for a moment when Twilight wasn't on that list, but it makes sense. Twilight was probably content to leave Fluttershy to her own devices most of the time, and vice versa. They're certainly friends enough for the purposes of Harmony, but not quite on par with Fluttershy's various beloved and those who kept her on the mortal coil.
And there, Discord can sympathize. They both don't quite operate according to conventional social logic.
I respect you as a writter far too much to allow that travesty to go by. "Regardless" is the word you're looking for. That abomination is as wrong as "ATM machine."
Well, not yet, anyway. A dream is a child immaculately conceived, and Rarity is its Madonna.
Puns aside, I do love your interpretation of Rarity's talent. Creative, logical, and with earth-shaking ramifications. An engine of utopia, its cylinders spinning ever faster. Right now, it's hooked up to a sewing machine. In the future...
In all, a nice way to cover what the rest of the Mane Six were up to during the exposition dump. After all, the
world doesn't stop turningsun doesn't stop moving just because there's important information to share. You captured each perspective well... though Dash's segment felt a bit more third-person omniscient than the others. Didn't quite feel like we were in her head, but it's not like she spends much time there.Looking forward to more, especially with Pinkie's blessing.
Wow wow what is going on here
We have
Luna and Twilight being lebians
Dash being lesbian over Fluttershy
Fluttershy being Bi and considering the idea of having polygamy relationship with Dash, Bulk and Discord
Applejack being straight out of all ponies
Rarity lusting over a child
And something about Pinkie Pie having sex with everything in every universe
I just don't even
38.media.tumblr.com/fcfd9a28fe1b0891be0c4b4a1615d712/tumblr_n2k5hef0Q01rz6lejo1_500.jpg
Once you start lingering on someone's smell and trying to compliment it... yeah, sure, you can still just be "friends".
A few editing hiccups to get out of the way...
I love it when Rainbow talks to herself!
I assume that should that be pledge?
I'd joke about Spike assisting himself here, but that'd be a bit crude...
Straight up typo, unless it was meant to be some Pinkie-vernacular.
I can only assume the one was left over from when there were more reasons listed?
"Complement." Rarity's looking to smell in such a way that her smell combines with Spike's to be pleasing. And yes, your larger point is correct -- Rarity wouldn't be thinking this way if she weren't falling in love with him.
Fixed the others.
4790649
Sort of. As explained in Nightmares Are Tragic, "A Meeting By Moonlight" and "Feeling Adrift," Luna's past incarnation Moondreamer was married to Twilight Sparkle's past incarnation Dusk Skyshine, over 4000 years ago. Luna remembers this and loves Twilight from the moment she realizes who she used to be; Luna then slowly courts her. By the point of this story, they haven't even sexually kissed, but the unresolved sexual tension is being used to complete several unfinished projects of Starswirl the Bearded. Just kidding about that last clause.
By the time of the future of Twelfth Equestriad Interview, they are married.
Indeed she is. And has been without realizing it since they were friends as fillies; she has realized it since sometime in early Season 1 Dragonshyness and Fluttershy Is Free are the key stories here that I've written so far.
Technically "polyamory," but yeah. Fluttershy in canon shows what looks very much like romantic affect for all three of them.
Why not? What makes you think she's gay? She's never been shown in canon as having romantic affect for anypony of either sex, so I figured she had a prior commitment.
Rarity loving Spike, an adolescent Dragon. She feels guilty about it, and what you're seeing them do here is about as sexual as they've gotten. She is almost this intimate with him onscreen in canon in the last half-dozen or so eps of Season Four, too.
Oh, perhaps you didn't notice it, but under all Rarity's love-fevered internal monologue, all they actually do in that scene is hug one another. But then Rarity is melodramatic about her emotions -- that's canon.
This Pinkie Pie has actually had sex with nopony, not even Cheese Sandwich. However, she is aware of the lives of some of the other Pinkie Pies, some of whom have lovers, some of whom are married, and some of whom are even promiscuous. And some of whom are virgins like herself.
4790466
Yes, Rainbow Dash is a pretty direct problem-solver. But we love her for it.
Fluttershy sees nothing wrong with taking multiple mates. She loves all three of them, and something in her thinks she should get them to dig her a burrow and stay in the largest chamber having babies, anyway. Though her reason and Pony upbringing keep her from trying to do that.
Fixed the typo.
And yes -- Rarity is awesome.
4790466
Oh, and I totally get and appreciate the Madonna Material Girl reference.
4790942
"Fluttershy in canon shows what looks very much like romantic affect for all three of them."
Oh hey i have to stop you right there, you cant just asume attraction based on one episode where she was forced to compete and basically lead to forced interaction just like Fluttershy had with Big Mac in Filli Vanilli. Even as fluttercord shipper i didnt really seen nothing unusual with Fluttershy-Discord interactions. Not to mention with Bulk Biceps. I think that polyamorous personality is a misinterpetation like that famous flowers scenes that were straighten up by Meghan. They tried to give the least attractive male for competition so shippers wouldnt ship yet it didnt work. Internet would probably explode with shipping if Thunderlane was the third guy. It seem like Fluttershy cant interact with anyone else except animals to not be considered attracted to that person. Only Seabreeze wasnt hit with that ship since he was already married.
4791023
Fluttershy was "forced" to interact with Bulk to the extent of training and appearing with him on the field (note: she wasn't exactly clubbed and press-ganged to the Games). She was not forced to hang out with him, talk to him about his problems, play little cutesie games with him off the field, or stand on his barbells waggling her cute little yellow tuschie and pink tail in his face while admiring his own Bulkiness on the train into the Crystal City. Fluttershy is a sapient being with her own will and purposes, not a plushie-toy that just gets picked up and put down in various embarrassing situations.
4791023
Oh, and the affair between Fluttershy and Bulkie was hardly sprung on you in chapter 13 -- its existence and discovery by Discord is the precipitating event of the whole story!
4791023
What makes you think that Fluttershy finds Bulk unattractive? Note that the two other beings she finds attractive in my fanon are a male Draconequus and a loudmouthed mare. Bulk is much more a Pony stallion than are either Discord or Rainbow!
4790902
In my defense, I had about three beers over the course of reading this thing. If all I did was typo complement as compliment, I'm happy enough.
4791215
Are you kidding? You spotted several of my typos and I am very glad you did!
Thank you!
4791080
4791080
Her attraction to Bulk is still nothing but a headcannon. You could replace Bulk with anyone and she would act same way. Its just depend on the persons who percieve her in that episode. There isnt many Bulkshy shippers because most of people including me seen her interaction as innocent. Like a sister entertaining a slightly mentally challenged person (when she was looking at his muscle dance there was no blushing, him dancing in a dress, Dash cutting him slack and looking at him pitiful when he offered her a muffin, him crushing them with his body didnt angered them)
I do not say that you shouldn't treat this as your headcanon for the purpose of the story. But saying that she was or is right now still attracted to him in a canon story of FiM is a big overstatement. Or even with Discord. There is a high chance that in S5 Bulk wont be ever mentioned beside appearing somewhere in the background. While Fluttershy may be shipped with new generic pony. I think that the way her eyes are drawn give always impression that she is attracted to everything she is smiling to. We shouldn't give up to illusions though.
4792965
Mmm -- Bulk is arguable. It's true they were pushed together by circumstance, but there are at least two scenes in "Rainbow Falls" and one in "Equestria Games" which look an awful lot like she's at least making friends with him. And for Fluttershy, being able to make friends with anypony save her closest friends is very significant.
Fluttershy has an overall canon story arc which started in the very first episode of the series, in which she goes from somepony so cripplingly shy that she can't even say her own name to Twilight Sparkle on first meeting her, to a pony who is still shy but is no longer severely dysfunctional. There is no way that the Season One Fluttershy would have been able to be that friendly with a stallion she didn't already know very well. That's part of the significance.
My version of Fluttershy is a seriously weird pony who has led a seriously weird life. She's half a member of a lost Kind, was born to and rejected by the highest aristocracy, was raised by a lunatic, had very few friends, and had a traumatic sexual experience four years before Luna's Return. She's spent portions of her life clinically paranoid, depressed and suicidal. She's feeling a lot better now, but she's never going to be "normal" -- Pinkie Pie, for all her alien view of causality and ability to perceive and warp reality in some very unusual ways, is in terms of her ability to openly display friendly and romantic affect far more normal than is Fluttershy.
Rainbow Dash -- I know why they can't show more than the mildest possible affection between them onscreen, but they have shown about the most they could get away with in early 21st century America in a show aimed at little girls. Rainbow and Fluttershy treat each other like lovers, or as much as they are likely to given that Rainbow deeply respects Fluttershy and Fluttershy in incredibly shy through most of the series.
And Discord? His affection for Fluttershy has made him switch sides. When they are shown together, particularly from the end of "Three's a Crowd" on, both of them display repeated signs of affection toward one another, including petting each other. When Discord betrays her in Twilight's Kingdom, Fluttershy's reaction is what one would expect to see from romantic betrayal. When Discord apologizes to her, he displays similar affect. After he's been drained, to boot.
So ... no. I don't think I'm just imagining it.
4793036
Yes i understand, for the purpose of this story to have own version of Fluttershy.
Its just the "canon love" is what trigger me. I seen so many people who treated Fluttershy/Iron Will or even Big Mac/Fluttershy after Filli Vanilli as canon attraction that i really lost energy to argue. While i can believe that theres at least slight attraction between Discord and Fluttershy(writing letters, while only Fluttershy knew what his address is and Twilight and Mane5 did not know, private tea parties and her picture on his bedstand) and between Big Mac and Cheerilee (her swooning over him in Filli Vanilli) i cant just act like this is canon until its clarified. Once again, even i was fooled by Discords flowers for Celestia and it was nothing romantic. Probably like every scene we seen so far with every shipping.
4793171
I totally don't see why you'd ship Fluttershy with Iron Will -- she won his respect, but that was all. As for Big Mac, I think that Big Mac and Fluttershy regard each other positively, and could argue that they are becoming friends.
4793191
)
Yes, friends. Non sexual friendship should be taken for granted by default. Especially with characters that have little interaction with her like Bulk,Will and BM or Seabreeze.
And soon new comics of Friends Forever with Fluttershy and Iron Will appear in October. And a main comics with Discord/Fluttershy/CMC. And theres a rumored episode in S5 where Discord is jealous of Fluttershy friendship (i pretty much remembered you story when i heard this
http://www.horse-news.net/2014/07/the-rumor-mill-john-delancie-might-have.html
There will be another tone of shipping fan arts for Discord and Iron Will. We cant just accept her every friend as romantic attraction. Or we may do the same toward every of mane6. For example Dash may be attracted to Pinkie, Flutters, Daring Do and Spitfire/Soarin if we take every hint from every season. What i want to say is that we should not encourage people to go on mlp forums and boards to say that "this X is attracted to X and its canon". That spark flamewars. For now i only agree that canon attractions are (without counting married couples like Cakes or SA/Cadance)
-Rarity toward Blueblood
-Rarity toward Trenderhoof (i dont count Fancy Pants as it wasnt really hinted at attraction)
-Spike toward Rarity
-Twilight toward Flash (and possibly Flash toward Twilight)
-and Cherilee toward Big Mac (unless it was just an animators and storyboard artists gag)
I do however accept these theories applying in fanfiction. Just not in canon story.
4793616
Ah, but that's the difference in terms of Bulk.
Fluttershy interacted with him extensively for months. They were training for the Games together.
One could argue that Fluttershy extensively interacts with Big Mac because he's the brother of one of her friends (and AJ is very close with Big Mac). The main difference here is that "Filli Vanilli" is the only episode in which we actually see them interact, and Mac's reaction could be summed up as "Oh, she's cute. Oh, she's sweet. Uh-oh, she'd better watch where she goes ..."
Another difference is that the TV show actually is fairly obviously shipping Mac with Cheerilee. Not to the point that they're definitely a couple, but to the point that it's obvious they have a romantic friendship going. It's also obvious from "Hearts and Hooves Day" that there was some attraction between them from many years ago but that it failed.
Oh, that's nice. I like to see them following up on Iron Will, he struck me as a pretty cool character.
Sure, why not? Fluttershy has taken care of the CMC at least once on the show, and there was an earlier episode of the comic book where Discord essentially played with the CMC (non-destructively, too!)
Seems like an obvious plot development to me, which is why I started writing Divine Jealousy and the Voice of Reason in the first place. Depending how they do it, it might not even joss my story.
As you probably have guessed, Discord's not going to kill Bulk. And you might think that whatever reasoning Discord uses to not kill Bulk will cure him of jealousy toward future friends, sexual or otherwise. But Discord's jealousy can be irrational. For instance, he's notably not jealous of Rainbow Dash -- whom Fluttershy loves, and has loved carnally as well in my fanon, and has a stronger bond with than she does with Bulk Biceps.
4793616
Dash definitiely cares about Pinkie Pie, and in my fanon it might have taken a sexual turn (my Dashie being bisexual) were it not for two things:
(1) She was stuck on Fluttershy, and
(2) My Pinkie Pie's straight.
However, I've mentioned more than once that Pinkie is quite aware of the fact that in at least one worldline she and Dash are lovers. And that this is one of the reasons why in this worldline she goes out of her way to become good friends with Dash. Not because she wants to be lovers with Dash in this worldline, but because she knows that Dash is capable of loving her so she wants her as a friend.
As for Fluttershy, my Rainbow Dash loves her with the sort of deathless passion that the Pegasi would write romantic-epic poetry about. In part because Dash and 'Shy used to read those poems to each other as fillies and then act them out together. It's the mushiest thing Dash has ever done in her life, and they never talk about this in front of anypony else because it's too special for them to want to share with anypony. It may seem strange that they also love other Ponies, but they come from the sort of warrior culture that never lets multiple love interests come in the way of a good heroic blood-sistership (to use Luna's favored archaic term for that sort of situation).
The downfall of their love was on the one hand something straight out of one of those poems -- the Secret Curse (Fluttershy is half- Changeling, the revelation of which made Dash feel betrayed); and on the other hand something sadly prosaic -- sexual incompatibility (Fluttershy is really into sex, Rainbow Dash is only occasionally in the mood for it). Where the latter point is concerned, there is just no way that Fluttershy would be anything but frustrated in the context of a monogamous relationship with Dashie. Which is very sad, because they really do love one another.
Of course this is pure fanon, but I think it's fairly well thought out pure fanon.
The show supports Rainbow Dash having, or having had, a crush on Soarin'. Originally she hero-worshipped him, but that's changed to friendliness as she's come to know him better. Her attitude toward Spitfire could be defined as initially hero-worship turning into a sort of mutually-respectful rivalry.
Yeah, but this is my story, my fanon, and I most certainly do try to go with pairings which have at least been strongly-suggested in canon.
I'd agree on these all having at least been true at one time. Rarity is obviously no longer attracted to Blueblood. She may still be attracted to Trenderhoof (he never actually made her hate him). I think Rarity returns Spike's affections, but maybe not sexually -- it is made abundantly clear in more than one episode that she loves him (in some fashion).
Twilight was definitely drawn toward Humanoid Flash; she never seemed to have followed up on it with Pony Flash though. And they had a whole season to at least hint at something. I think he was just a Flash in the pan.
I think that Cheerilee and Big Mac are picking up on something they dropped many years ago.
If Discord is the Untwisted Twister then how was Pinkie twisted or discorded or whatever that's called?
4794930
Discord is stronger than Pinkie. Terrifyingly stronger. Discord is actually stronger than Paradise -- the Paradise Entity can only face him defensively on its own chosen ground, it would lose rather quickly on a neutral field.
4795051 That's scary. Very very scary. And is Minty Pinkie's friend from the reality where the Cosmic Concept Gravity was fighting the Pink Thing and nearly lost?
4795110
Yes. Minty is G3 Minty, and Twilight Sparkle is in part the reincarnation of Minty. Minty was G3 Pinkie's best friend to a degree of friendship rarely seen in the G4 reality, because in G3 there was no romantic sexual love, and friendship did duty for its absence.
Pinkie is very protective of Twilight Sparkle for this reason, though Pinkie protects her (and her other friends) often in ways they cannot comprehend or even sense. Mostly, Pinkie twists probabilities in their favor -- we might call these "blessings." One of her weaknesses is that she will push herself way too far, to protect a friend.
4795160 So she's forgiven Luna for what Gravity did to her and Minty by now?
4795215
Oh yes. A thousand years ago on a different worldline and between different incarnations. And Pinkie's not a very good hater. She does like to tease Luna, as she did when she called her "Black Snooty" on her first appearance in this tale (reprising her initital reaction to Nightmare Moon).
But then she gave her chocolate cake.
Luna likes chocolate cake.
4795281 I thought Luna liked cookies!!!
That song? I'd have gone with Captain Falcon's medley as he punches the villain the face in that anime clip for RD's little story telling.
"But it never works!" protested Rarity.
Rarity has a point. In this cartoon, violence has never solved anything. 80s cartoon heroes would be VERY CONFUSED at the laws of this universe.
Of course I'd have then written a quick 'meanwhile in a parallel universe' blip to RD's remark that she'd have hit the Manticore 'right.'
Still, nice to see RD and Rarity interact. Bloody seriously, it's like the writers can't figure out a bloody thing to do with them. Even though they're both close friends of AJ!!!!
Of course, now we know that being given a taste of his own medicine, as is typical in this bloody cartoons, Discord being given a taste of what it's like to be totally helpless, like all his victims were before him, (and to have his magic ripped out of him, to be VIOLATED in such a way) finally scared him straight.
The word of the show's writers that Discord's flower to Celestia were just his way of apologizing . . . just feels off to me, like it doesn't fit somehow with how the characters have acted.
It's ironic that Pinkie is a year younger than Fluttershy, but seems to see towards her like a mother would. I see think that Pinkie Pie scaring Fluttershy that time in the 'Flutter guy' episode IMHO was simply good intentions back firing. She was trying to get Fluttershy to see how absurd her fears were by blowing them out of proportion, but didn't realize that for Fluttershy, those fears sound real and solid regardless of how overblown they're made.
RD never struck me as being into mares.
And she still found Ponies hard to understand, compared to small mammals and songbirds.
Animals don't judge her. Which is why IMHO they're easier for her to get along with than ponies.
Of course Angel is a lot more sentient than the average pet, (of course in my fic that's due to him being a descendant of Habbit).
I wonder if Applejack realizes that with Big Mac as shy as Fluttershy around the opposite gender, and Applebloom not showing any interest either, that it's her job to continue her branch of the blood line.
Now I know how my readers feel.
This was very obviously Twilight's first experience of being loved romantically by somepony she was capable of accepting as a mate,
Flash Sentry, "Gee, thanks."
Given the fandom, it's actually funny to find one where AJ is the straight one.
Ironically, Nightmare Mirror had nothing against FICTION. After all, fiction by definition is not real, and does not pretend to be real, and doesn't try to make you think it's real.
and wondered if Featherweight was aware of Snails' hidden personality.
Ah. Going that route.
I think it's funny how the 'teen foals' tumblr went the route of having Snails be a manly man and Diamond's coltfriend.
And thank you for pointing out just how DAMAGED Featherweight was afterwards. One of the points of the Pony POV Series is that the day of chaos wasn't harmless.
And Pony POV Discord tried to brush off Canon Discord as not as nasty as him, but Diamond Tiara was quick to point out they're equally awful. In other words, Discord has no one but himself to blame for his lack of salvation.
Given how manly man his father is, I can imagine why Featherweight doesn't want his father to know.
And on the end of the spectrum, Pip has the night goddess herself ready to protect him from harm int he most brutal way possible if need be.
Ironic how AJ still has to deal with Nightmare Mirror, but Fluttershy will never have to deal with Nightmare Whisper.
She missed her innocence.
Pinkie Pie misses AJ's innocence, then agian, she misses the innocence of every sapient being alive, she lived in a universe where innocence was the NORM, and ponies like Kimono were the oddity!
And the vision of the end of Golden Oaks.
Applejack's Pinkie Pie to Equestrian decoder was not as elaborate as was Twilight Sparkle's
She HAS ONE?
she was loaded for bear.
????
I've heard of 'game theory' many times, but I've never been able to grasp it. Can YOU spell it out for me please?
Princess of the Material World.
HEh. I see what yo did there.
Weird to hear Rarity call SPIKE her best friend considering Fluttershy.
Celestia could chat with Rarity about their romantic endeavors always back firing.
They emit it when they're sexually aroused.
I think Spike is a hundred years too young for that.
I wonder how Rarity would react if she learned what Spike did to Turnip Truck (who turned himself into the business stallion and social climber he knew Rarity wanted).
Militia training,
RD or Shy?
Pinkie's talent never struck me as being able to actually ALTER fate.
. That was a mean trick, but she wasn't going to risk having photos of Rarity cuddling Spike that way come out.
:-(
She might have saved Pinkie's life helping her down that mountain after they fought Red Haze, even though at the time Pinkie herself had been too silly to grasp it.
What happened in this timeline?
Of course, Applejack learned something too with Golden Delicious, but that's a story for a much later time.
Which was a paradox, and those were very very bad because enough of them might crash the Universe.
Like a 'everyone gets what they wish for as long as it doesn't hurt others' spell even when the wishes begin contradicting each other?
I wonder what happens when AJ's truth grows to where she can see Pinkie's sister.
I don't believe souls have genders. But I'l politely agree to disagree here since it's a minor point of the story anyway.
And yes, if Featherweight found out about Snails' other side, it WOULD scare him, because it WOULD remind him of the damage Discord had done to him.
http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Kanji The reverse Acana of the Emperor, weak willed, corrupt intents, and misleading. I can see Featherweight confronted with a shadow embodying the damage Discord had done to him, telling Featherweight that he had LIKED IT, and he WANTED IT, and how could he ever consider himself male, etc
Was Diamond Tiara inside her father's house in this timeline? Or did something else happen to her? Since I doubt she ended up a doll exchangling parts with doll sweetie in this timeline. Or did they?
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Yeah, well, that particular song was not only dedicated to Rainbow Dash but I think well captures both the genuine heroism and the hilarious bravado that often accompanies it.
Well -- it's also a matter of choice of opponents and attacks. Actually, a Sonic Rainboom would be pretty effective against most foes. It wouldn't do much more than annoy Discord, though. It would also be a poor choice of actions inside the Golden Oaks Library. Geez, the place is a town landmark -- they want to keep that place standing for centuries to come!
I'm surprised the writers don't have them interact more, since with their totally-divergent senses of life, they are comedy gold together. The more so because they have secret points of similarity -- Rarity has a violent temper on her that gets set off by certain Berserk Buttons (such as threatening Spike in her presence); and Rainbow secretly likes looking pretty and girly when she's in certain moods. In the scene I did, of course, Rainbow Dash is deliberately twitting her.
It also made him realize the difference between being in some way dependent on those who may get annoyed at him but actually care for him (Celestia, Fluttershy, Twilight) and someone who doesn't give a damn about him at all (Tirek).
I agree. Discord has always acted toward Celestia as if she were his ex-lover or ex-best friend whom he alienated by bad behavior in the past; and Celestia toward Discord as if he were someone she had to be stern with because she fears that if she let herself respond to his charm it might end in their resuming a prior romantic relationship. Or at least strong friendship. And she can't let him manipulate her like that.
Fluttershy's fears all really boil down to being mocked and despised by everypony. Her mother primed her to see other ponies as her enemies, and her experience as a filly made her familiar with being picked on. The one thing that kept her sane was the knowledge that Rainbow Dash, far from despising her, adored her -- and Fluttershy very much admires Rainbow Dash. This came long before any romantic love between them. Later, Fluttershy found Rarity, who was admirable and impressive in a different way, and who also really liked her.
In A Robust Solution, when Fluttershy describes her breakdown, note that the really key realization on her part was that other Ponies saw her with "Nosey." Her assumption that they actually noticed beyond "Oh look, that weird hermit filly's hanging out with some strange stallion" and that they remembered or cared about it long afterward is at least partially due to her paranoia. Some Ponies may have gossiped about it for a day or two afterward, and then dropped and forgot the topic when nothing else happened. Certainly, nopony was trailing them to her home: I doubt that anypony realized that he'd spent the night at her house.
Ironically, things would have been different if Nosey actually had become her regular lover. Then, Ponies would have noticed them hanging out together on multiple occasions and drawn the obvious conclusions. Of course, in that case Fluttershy would have felt warm and valued, not devastated by rejection, so her paranoia wouldn't have flared.
Rarity also understood that but wanted to tackle Fluttershy's problems one at a time. Rarity faced real gossip and damage to her reputation in Fillydelphia after she broke up with Rush, and toughed it through until everypony found other things to talk about. So she knows what that can feel like.
And yeah, my final conclusion about Pinkie's actions in "Filli Vanilli" is that she set it up so that Fluttershy would realize that she was admirable and would make some new friends. Including Big Mac. It may be relevant here that "Filli Vanilli" takes place after "Pinkie Apple Pie," "Rainbow Falls" and "Pinkie Pride."
This means that Pinkie Pie had already befriended Big Mac, Fluttershy had befriended (but was not yet romantically-involved with) Bulk Biceps, and Pinkie had met Cheese Sandwich. It is quite possible that Pinkie was attempting to matchmake between Big Mac and Fluttershy -- without consulting either one of them, of course.
But then, of the Mane Six, Pinkie Pie is one of the three Manipulators on the Manipulative/Direct behavioral axis -- the others being Fluttershy and Rarity. She is the strangest Manipulator of them all. Merely arranging to have two ponies she both liked meet one another and cooperate on a project is mundane by her standards.
(*thinks about it*)
You know, she's only that way toward Fluttershy! She's aware of other mares (most notably Applejack) in a way that implies she doesn't find the thought of being sexual with them repulsive, but she never seems to show romantic affect toward any mare other than Fluttershy. She is also, obviously, attracted to stallions. In canon most notably Soarin. Azure Sky is imported from Phoenix_Dragon's fanon.
I went with the Rainbow Dash / Sky plot largely because of the total irony of it all given what I'd decided about Fluttershy. Rainbow Dash fell for Fluttershy originally because Fluttershy was sweet, timid and emotionally-dependent on her. Rainbow Dash did not realize that this is all classic Changeling behavior toward the target of love-locking. Not that Fluttershy didn't return her love. Just that she did in a typically Changeling fashion.
Rainbow Dash discovers the truth about Fluttershy. Dash is devastated by the revelation and feels she can't love Fluttershy that way any more. So she falls for Sky, who is sweet, a bit timid (though more game for adventure than Fluttershy) and becomes emotionally-dependent on her. Because -- unknown to Sky himself due to an accident -- Sky is also a Changeling.
Poor Dashie.
So anyway, maybe she's not into mares. Maybe she's just into Changelings.
Animals are simpler and have more easily-met expectations. And yeah -- Fluttershy is weird in ways that can lead to social rejection by the overly-conventional. Even in a tolerant society like Equestria's.
Though Ponies who take the trouble to get to know her usually like her a lot.
Heh ... well, first of all, Applejack's still fairly young for a mare of her lineage. She's only 26 in my chronology, and both her Granny and her mother were highly fertile in their thirties and forties.
Secondly, Big Mac likes mares well enough. He's shy, and he's definitely not the promiscuous type, but he likes mares. One mare in particular ... the same one as seems to be the case in canon.
Thirdly, Apple Bloom is around 14 by my chronology (probably meant to be younger by the writers). While she's reached the formal legal age of consent now, that doesn't mean that she has to start trying to find a husband right away. She's still got a lot of growing to do, both emotional and physical. I personally think that she'll wind up getting married eventually and having lots of foals. The Apple mares generally do.
All the CMC look younger than they actually are, especially to Ponies, for one big reason. They're blank-flanks. Most Ponies looking at them probably don't even realize that Apple Bloom and Sweetie Belle have actually started their cycles (suppressors complete their ignorance of this fact). Scootaloo's a late bloomer in this regard. None of them have colt-friends or are in any way sexually active. Then again most of their age cohort haven't gotten beyond the occasional hug and nuzzle yet, anyway. They're just kids.
In my continuity, Twilight actually became aware of how Luna felt before the events of Equestria Girls. She noticed what Luna had told her by implication in "A Meeting By Moonlight." (tentatively set in early October 1503).
Of course this didn't mean that she returned Luna's sentiments. She liked Luna and had done so from first encountering the actual Luna (as opposed to Nightmare Moon), but unlike Luna she didn't remember their past life together.
Twilight is actually mostly straight. That's the main reason why Luna has to conduct such a long and involved campaign of courtly love to win her. As Luna does so, Twilight begins to regain some of her memories of being Dusk Skyshine.
For that matter, Luna is mostly straight. This is the first time in around 1520-25 years on Earth in this incarnation that she's gone after a mare. Celestia comment on this in "Feeling Adrift."
And at that, they eventually take advantage of one of the benefits of being Alicorns, in a way which they would rarely have done so if they were truly lesbians. Remember, they have the power of all the Pony Kinds -- not just the ones who consider themselves to be Ponies.
Not to be mean to Flash Sentry, but Twilight never seemed to me to be in love with him, only flustered by him. In An Epistolary Legal Consultation Between Princesses, Twilight speculates that part of her problem was that the humanoid form she was in has the equivalent of a permanent heat and that she was in consequence over-reacting to every sexual stimulus. And Pony Flash does not interact with her at all for the whole of Season Four, despite the fact that Flash is one of Cadance's guards and Twilight meets Cadance several times on camera during that season.
This could change in the canon future, of course. The writers and animators showed Flash Sentry on screen enough times to make it obvious that they hadn't forgotten he existed. They just don't seem to be using him.
I've never grasped why everyone assumes AJ is a lesbian. She hasn't shown any lesbian affect in the show. Nor has she shown much in the way of heterosexual affect either. She's very affectionate to her friends, but I've never see her do anything that's even slightly sexual.
The stereotype she's drawn from is the "wholesome country girl." That sort of character often has a childhood sweetheart of immense importance to her. I simply equipped Applejack with one, then lost him to explain why he isn't hanging around Ponyville. Pinkie's precognition should adequately explain what happened to him, and why he might be coming home again someday.
There are a number of reasons I like Coming Out of Your Shell. The biggest one is that Glittershell acts just as one would expect a secretly-female-personality version of Snails to act. She's not special and wise or even of normal intelligence. She's friendly, incredibly-innocent, and for the most part dim. I like this because I am so sick of presentations where the member of the Minority Group has magical amazing insight by virtue of her Minority status.
(Glittershell does have some insight into what it's like to be gender-confused, but then she's sapient. Just not very bright).
This of course makes me hope that Equestria really is as nice and friendly a society, even toward somepony as weird as Glittershell, because otherwise she's really going to suffer. A lot. I would hate if it worked out as it did in It, where almost everypony rejects Glittershell, and in consequence Glittershell endures a life of coldness and abuse.
I think, though, that the writer of that fic has the Mane Six and some other Ponies act significantly out of character just to mess up Gilttershell's life. In particular the story falls victim to viewing Applejack as a mean intolerant sort of Pony, when she's never acted like that on the show (save toward vampire fruit bats,, that is). Since AJ can see the truth and Glittershell is about as cunning as a lead ingot, I decided AJ is well aware of Snails' alter ego.
I want her to live and be happy and eventually perform on stage with Sweetie Belle as the famous and incomporable Yellow Dancer -- for the whole Earth Defense Fleet.
Yeah, the Final Battle in Cislunar Orbit is going to play out a lot like Macross ... though I'm not going to have the Earth get quite so devastated. In part due to the Ponies having learned how to channel Love on a really large scale to achieve some truly awesome mega-magical effects, and in part due to Celestia's Sacrifice.
So I think you see the potential for really major tragedy down this road, given just which two beings are on Fluttershy's short-list of beloveds. Not sure what's going to happen myself. Though it won't happen in this story.
Oh yes. Note that what bothers Applejack the most is that she's been put in a position where if she doesn't lie (by omission and emphasis) far worse things will happen, including the possible death of the Pony to whom she is lying. That is a betrayal of her own nature, and rankles her quite severely. That's what she meant most by missing her innocence -- when she was younger, she never would have conceived finding herself in such a situation.
She also thought that by now she would have been married to Landscape, maybe already bearing him a foal or two. As a filly she might have feared that they would break up, or even that he would die, but never that he would just disappear leaving her unsure of what to do next -- count him as dead and risk betraying him? Or assume him to be alive, and exist in a sort of limbo unable to love anypony else? Neither choice is a happy one.
Well, she's learned to pick out the salient points from the enthusiastic babble, since she's learned through painful experience that Pinkie Pie usually does have a point to whatever she's going on about now. Part of the reason Pinkie is a poor communicator, incidentally, is that Pinkie tends not to grasp well how others think and hence which parts of her communications they will want to have explained to them and which they will take for granted.
It is a way of applying formal logical and mathematical reasoning to cause-and-effect situations in which the effect is caused by the actions of multiple persons who decide separately what to do. This is generally done through the creation of matrices (tables) showing the effects which will be caused by each intersection of choices on the part of the players. It's important because it is very useful in analyzing the utility of strategic, ethical, moral and other choices in a situation where one does not completely control all the choices made by all the participants.
It is very significant to the development of ethics because -- before Game Theory -- one could plausibly argue that scientific reasoning supported utter amoral ruthlessness and that consequently our remaining fondness for morality was a mere outdated survival of a more superstitious age. This belief fed directly into the creation of both Communism and Fascism, and was one of the intellectual trends which caused the World Wars and the Cold War -- the "Short Twentieth Century" from 1914 through 1989, essentially 75 years of destruction and horror.
Game Theory, put simply, explained why morals are evolutionarily valuable -- why, even in a world in which we accept that we are the products of natural processes, and must invent our own ethical codes, we would still want to have them. It showed that amoral ruthlessness often tends to defeat its own practicioners, for what works well in the short run may fail in the long run. And it showed why this was so in logical and mathematical terms.
In A Robust Solution, Fluttershy uses it to understand the error she made that resulted in her being hurt by Nosey. Rarity listens to what Fluttershy has to say about it and then reads up on its applications in political and economic decision making. My Rarity is anything but an airhead -- she's brilliant, creative and while not as much into books as is Twilight Sparkle, is also fairly well-read. Rarity is digesting the theories and using them to fuel her dream of a united, peaceful and prosperous future world, a dream she wants to do something to bring about, though she does not yet know how to achieve it.
Inspired by you, of course. I'm thinking of the Alicorn Libera, though Rarity isn't yet thinking in those terms. She's idealistic, but not at all mystical.
I think that Spike became her best friend at some point during Season Four (summer to fall 1504) due to two factors. She got closer to Spike (by the last few eps she practically can't keep her hooves off him) and Fluttershy acquired new friends (such as Bulk and Discord) and responsibilities (such as escorting the Breezies and riding herd on Discord).
This is, of course, in part their growing apart as they are finding potential life mates. Which was inevitable.
Heh ... actually, it's Fluttershy's romantic endeavor backfiring here. Specifically, the same one that backfired for Celestia 2504 years earlier.
Rarity and Spike are doing just fine. Even though Rarity is a bit horrified at her own desires and emotions here. And Twilight may be horrified if things develop further.
It's not, please note, a matter of Rarity despising Spike for his naivete, or his attraction to her. Rarity has a very high opinion of Spike, and his attraction to her makes her very happy. She's despising herself for what she sees as taking advantage of his innocence. She's afraid that she's doing much the same thing to Spike that Rush Rocks did to her, basically.
Although the age difference is greater (8 as opposed to 3 years), Rarity is actually treating Spike (mostly) honorably. Which is more than can be said for the way Rush treated her.
She's also, maybe, emotionally wallowing in ... whatever one does wallow in when one is in such a situation. Look at her! She doesn't even know in what to wallow!
Both of them. They trained together in their teens and really enjoyed being in the field together. They started recapturing this by camping out together, as shown in Fluttershy Is Free. Then things went beyond mere camping, but they still like camping out together.
She more like nudges it by changing probabilities. Her talent has limits. And it's more defensive than offensive -- the easiest reality for her to warp is her own.
You see her using it flat-out to save Twilight in the avalanche scene in Dragonshyness. She pays for that later in the story, and for weeks thereafter because of the wounds she takes from Red Haze because she has mostly exhausted her powers saving Twilight earlier.
"Filly-souled" is more a poetic way of referring to Snails' self-perception as female, which in turn probably derives from a fetal developmental glitch (technically "teratogenic," though Snails is hardly "monstrous" in any but the technical sense of the word). It is possible that Snails / Glittershell was genetically supposed to be born female, but got the wrong hormones at some stage of fetal development. Snails may even be "chimeric" and have a different code for brain than for sex organs. Transgenderedness can stem from a number of causes; Snails / Glittershell is textbook transgendered.
Yes. it has occurred to me that there is no way for Glittershell's crush on Featherweight to end save in tears. Unless Glittershell grasps that Featherweight loves Twist in time to avoid revealing her own emotions in the matter. Unfortunately, Glittershell is not the brightest card in the deck
It's also occurred to me that, having thought about this so much, I almost have to write a Glittershell story now.
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I'm guessing Diamond Tiara wasn't caught in the spell, or she'd be far more messed up now than is actually the case.
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So can Wind Whistler. One of them was her inspiration.
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Pinkie Pie nearly died when Red Haze tail-whipped her (offscreen) in "Dragonshy" -- I describe the details in Dragonshyness. She came close to having her skeleton shattered -- the last remnants of her power were just enough to twist the probabilities such that she instead received massive bruising and minor organ damage, with some stress microfractures to her bones.
Afterward she didn't complain. She needed to complain, but she was a stubborn Earth Pony farmgirl at heart, and she figured she'd just tough it out. Applejack realized that she was hurt worse than she was letting on, helped her down the mountain to the plateau campsite, and then made sure Pinkie went immediately to bed (and then AJ collapsed from exhaustion by her side). She also let Pinkie Pie sleep the whole night, doing her own watch solo.
Pinkie Pie still managed to nearly kill herself over the next couple of weeks by trying to keep up her normal hectic pace and having her power keep her alive instead of letting natural healing take its course. She was essentially, unintentionally, starting to turn herself into a lich -- if she'd kept this up her body would have died but remained animated by her will and power. Fortunately, at the end of that couple of weeks she met Zecora, who gave her a nourishing broth heavily laced with sedatives. Pinkie slept a full day and felt a lot better when she woke up -- and took it easier thereafter.
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Now me, I always did perceive it as an apology gift, even though I definitely see Discord and Celestia as ex-lovers, because right after you betrayed her trust and stood by as she was thrown in to Tartarus is not a good time to be hitting on a lady even if she is your ex, and while it's possible that Discord might just be clueless enough to show such spectacularly bad judgement, the fact that Celestia responded to it with a smile tells me that it wasn't a literal romantic gesture. It may have been influenced by them having a romantic past, but it wasn't, in and of itself, "flowers for the girl I like".
Of course I found the whole controversy over it utterly absurd... because I'm a Dislestia shipper who sees it as an apology, so the fact that there were Dislestia shippers utterly and psychotically dedicated to the notion that it was a "go on a date with me" gesture and anti-Dislestia shippers hysterically convinced that "oh, it was apology flowers" means "bwahahaha! Celestia HATES Discord, now and forever! It's canon!" just... really perplexed me. The Fluttercordians have a really good point that Discord shows much more active love toward Fluttershy than Celestia in the episode, but what does that have to do with the price of eggs? Why in the name of all the pretty little horsies would anyone ever imagine that Discord could possibly be forced to restrict himself to one pony he has love for? Sure, if you want Fluttershy to be Discord's one and only, or you want Celestia to be the one and Fluttershy is just his best friend, then fine, but anyone with such opinions needs to know that they are fanon, and other opinions can exist.
(So in No Escape From Yourself, I'm going to establish that they were candy flowers, and Celestia ate them, which she was supposed to do. And he gave a bouquet to Luna too, but she promptly regifted them to Pinkie Pie, who didn't know they were an apology gift from Discord to Luna, so she ate them. Pinkie would never have intended to hurt Discord's feelings, she just didn't know the significance of the flowers. On the other hand, they're also a callback to Discord's romantic relationship with Celestia, because he first made those flowers for her millennia ago, turning flowers that grew in a field into living candy. So they're an apology gesture, not a romantic gesture, but they are influenced by the past romance.)
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I agree with you. It was an apology gift and it was also in reference to their prior love. In my fanon Celestia and Discord were only lovers for a week or so, but they were very good friends their whole lives until around 20 years of age in this incarnation, so saying that they "loved" one another is quite accurate. And not only doesn't prior love preclude apology, it really makes it more likely. Especially given that Discord isn't always the most thoughtful being in the world.
Plus, even were Discord far more monogamous than one might think, he and Celestia were enemies for many centuries. So why should his having loved her prevent her from loving Fluttershy now?
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I think that Fluttercordians think that Dislestia took a death blow because
A) Their shipping fuel is now only that one moment in Return of Harmony (where Discord taunt Celestia about "missing her" ) since Meghan pretty much confirm that he meant to give both bouqets to Celestia and Luna and treat them equally
B) They still regard a piece of script from KCaFO as more important than headcanon. And since in that scene he said that he never had a friend it would imply that he is in fact a virgin who never loved or had friends. The only way to reject this theory is to take another headcanon in consideration, such as
1- He in fact had a friend and a lover. And that lover was Celestia. But she hurt him this much that he erased any kind of bond between them and doesnt even consider that he ever had a friend.
2- Discord raped Celestia or trick her enough to seduce her. This do not count as friendship for him but could count as some kind of twisted romantic relationship between them
3- He simply lied to Fluttershy for no reason
C)Theory that Discord just came from another land like Tirek and Scorpan and simply just conquered Equestria and got defeated (without any kind of relationship with Celestia than fighting with her) is as possible as the fanfavourite headcanon that they shared some kind of bond. Hell, since comicbooks and AKR book do not mention any relationship with Discord and in case of comicbooks they pretty much stated that she fell in love with Sombra after stoning Discord and before banising Nightmare Moon, this theory is more legit than past love relationship.
I do not however trying to bash this shipping. Im just reasoning why many shippers are sceptic toward Dislestia and do not for example ship them both but prefer Fluttercord. Im myself was shipping Dislestia before his reformation. But considering his lack of interest toward Celestia and basically being more interested in Twilight and Fluttershy and all small details like not really mentioning Celestia or having any kind of hint toward liking her in tv show. (dialogs, letters, tea parties everything was Fluttershy related) pretty much killed the rest of any sparks they had as a pair for me. At this point they can build up Luna/Discord shipping in season 5 and there would be nothing wierd about it since they share as much connection as Discord/Celestia.
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If this third person is Bulk Biceps and not some generic pony or animal then Meghan was reading this before writing S5
Just joking though. But anyhow do you think if this pony is a male and not some kind of animal, child or one of mane6 would that episode imply romantic relationship at least from Discord point of view? I think that they might go for safe route and just use non-male character just to spark the "jealousy toward friend and attention" rather than "jealousy over a love interest". I dont think they will make it so blunt that Discord is attracted to her especially since they dont want to introduce mane6 to romance. And while writing letters and having her picture on a bedstand is still a subtle shipping since friends can do the same thing; I wouldnt be however convinced that they are just only friends when Discord is jealous not over just a random friend like Angel bunny, Pinkie Pie or Mr Cake but over an intelligent single male like Bulk Biceps, Iron Will or Thunder Lane.
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I don't actually see any contradiction between Discord having been in love with Celestia at some point in the past and Discord being in love with Fluttershy today. Even if we assume that Discord is extremely monogamous (why do we assume this of the Avatar of Chaos?), they were obviously not in love when Celestia and Luna petrified him, which was well over a thousand years ago (in my chronology 1504 years ago) nor when he was the tyrannical ruler of the world (in my chronology from 2504 to 1504 years ago). An obvious explanation is that they were in love but that Discord ruined it when he turned to evil (possibly betraying Celestia personally in the process).
That's completely consistent with my fanon, as Discord's love affair with Celestia ended 2504 years ago when she rejected him after he Awakened to his own nature as a Draconequus and attacked the other Ponies of Paradise Estate. He knew that (especially after betraying them to Tirek) neither Celestia nor Luna would have been interested in him romantically (even though both of them were 2504 years ago). He did, however, want to apologize for his actions and resume his friendship with them. Hence the bouquet.
In my fanon he was talking about his post-Awakened self -- he doesn't regard anything he did or said as Dissy (his pre-Awakened self) as binding. Incidentally, you are making a major and probably false assumption if you assume that a Chaos God who subjected the world to a reign of terror is a "virgin" simply because he had no friends. Simply wielding that sort of power would attract mares (and some stallions) to offer themselves willingly to him, the more so because they would hope for sympathy from him and either some of his power or at least his restraint against their families and friends.
Would Discord be morally-restrained against mating with non-friends? I see no particular reason why he would, though he might have some prejudice against such actions from being raised among Ponies who would have had such scruples. But such prejudice would be weak -- Discord did a lot of worse things as Tyrant of the World than mere casual sex! I would not count too heavily on Discord's sterling moral character ...
She did in my fanon hurt Discord deeply by refusing to love him after he Awakened. Even though one of the first things Discord did was to rant about how now that he was free he felt no emotional loyalty to or moral restraint against harming anypony. He then contradicted himself by, in fact, showing emotional loyalty to and moral restraint against harming several Ponies, most notably Celestia, Luna, Shady, Surprise, Posey and (to some extent) Firefly. In other words, the Ponies he had loved most before his Awakening.
Was this unreasonable of him? Yes. Very. But who ever said Discord was reasonable? After his Awakening he was childish and destructive: the reason he spared his old friends is that he would have been saddened by their deaths. In other words, he spared them for selfish reasons. That's ultimately why he lost -- he gave Celestia and Luna time to figure out how to defeat him.
In a sense he seduced Celestia through trickery. The trickery was quite sincere, though -- Dissy didn't know he was the Cosmic Concept Discord. From both their points of view, they were childhood friends and sweethearts becoming lovers; they both had every intent of staying together and having children. Then, Dissy Awakened and was absorbed into Discord. The (rather sad) joke was on both of them, really -- both lost their loves.
He may well have lied. (Discord is a known and proven liar in canon). He may have simply seen things differently ("I had no true friends because Celestia and Luna and the other Paradise Estate Ponies all betrayed my friendship by dumping me after I Awakened instead of serving me and playing with me forever!"). As for "no reason" -- in my fanon he wants Fluttershy to fall in love with him. From his POV -- in fact from the POV of many Human males far less evil than Discord -- that's ample reason to lie to a girl.
Is it immoral to lie to a girl to win her love? Yes! But who said DISCORD was MORAL? That's the thing I'm not understanding here -- why do you assume that Discord, of all beings, is an exemplar of sexual or affinitive morality? He's not -- normally Discord has the morality of a petulant child, and Horny-Discord probably has the morality of a spoiled teenage boy. Which is to say "not much."
It's possible, sure. But Discord acts awfully friendly-flirty toward Celestia every time they are on screen together. Including when he's threatening her, and when she's threatening him. There's a reason why Dislestia shipping started in the first place -- his displayed affect.
(Do you realize that when she approaches him with the Elements of Harmony his reaction is to literally grab her tail? Given Pony anatomy, that is a very flirtatious thing to do, and her shock at it looks much more like "How dare you!" than Body Horror).
And why would having loved Discord at some point in the past (presumably, before they were enemies) have prevented her from loving Good Sombra at some point in the future? While I don't see Celestia as promiscuous, any love affair with Discord and her love affair with Sombra are probably separated by centuries (about a millennium in my chronology). What, centuries aren't enough for her to get over the failure of her love with Discord?
Yes. Though I will point out that one obvious female Pony of whom Discord might be understandably jealous in my fanon would be Rainbow Dash -- her ex-lover with whom she still shares tremendous love and loyalty, and hence with whom Fluttershy might well wind up once again romantically loving, since they've had breakups before without it breaking their friendship. And even in canon, Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash are extremely close.
The member of the Mane Six who can't keep her hooves and muzzle off a minor is Rarity. Especially in the last few episodes of Season Four, which is why I'm writing her as trying (and failing) to resist returning Spike's romantic love in this story. I don't see anything dirty about this -- I think it's pure, strong love on both their parts.
And the fact that in every episode where they are onscreen together from "Three's a Crowd" afterward they are either being physically affectionate or at least looking into each other's eyes and smiling? And Fluttershy's extreme reaction to Discord's betrayal in Twilight's Kingdom? And his reaction to her reaction?
Look, this show is probably never going to show them in a truly compromising position. But it's shown everything short of that between those two. The only characters being more lovey-dovey on screen who are not actually married are Rarity and Spike.
Rarity and Spike need a spin-off show called Rarity and Spike in a Room. Because, really, they should get a ... well, you know.
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Yes, omg yes. The notion that Discord was a virgin is one I will never entirely comprehend -- power is the ultimate aphrodisiac, and Discord has no reason to have any reluctance to have casual sex. Sex does not have to lead to friendship; it doesn't even have to lead to remembering your partner's name in the morning.
Or, to quote myself (From my fic "Awkward Conversations"):
"Oh, my dear, naïve Twilight, you think I had relationships? That I was friends with any of them? Of course not! If they wanted my body, I could generally be persuaded to oblige them, once they'd proven their sincerity, but if they wanted my heart, well, I hear ponies in Tartarus want ice water."
I also assume that being the most famous and distinctive extreme xenomorph in Equestria (where xenomorph in this context is defined as not looking like a pony) meant that anypony in Equestria with xenophilic inclinations would have known exactly where to go to get their wildest possible fantasies fulfilled. Not a large percentage of the Pony population are xenophiles, but when every single living member of a nation knows your name and what you look like, it's likely that anypony who could possibly be attracted to Discord probably ended up gravitating to him at some point. Especially if Discord acquired a reputation for giving gifts to those who pleased him, which he probably did, and especially if anypony assumed Discord would spare their villages or their families if they went to bed with him. (This one is much less likely, both because Discord would have gotten seriously pissy with anypony who was seducing him because they wanted protection for their families, as opposed to actually wanting him, and because Discord was not likely to remember who he slept with last week. In my headcanon, they were interchangeable and disposable, and the only reason he bothered with them rather than sticking with the pleasures his own powers could give him was that he craved emotional validation, and being sexually desired was the only dimension in which he could be wanted by ponies. In canon, Discord is an incredible attention whore and more than one of his silly costumes would be interpreted as sexually suggestive if he were human, so I believe he sought out sex with ponies less for physical pleasure and more because it was the only positive attention he ever got. Not that he didn't enjoy it, but he was more than capable of making his own fun, so to speak. :-))
There are a lot of different ways to interpret that "I never really had a friend before." In my universe where Discord is Q (where he is not romantically interested in Fluttershy, because in canon, all of Q's romantic interests are middle-aged adults or at least late 30 somethings), he said that because he's in a particularly bitter period in his life when he feels betrayed by the Q Continuum, and he's decided that if people demonstrate to you that they are not your friend, it means they never were, so retroactively he has no friends. (Celestia calls him on this particular piece of illogic, but he sticks to it.) In my more traditional MLP universe, Discord had no friends because Celestia and Luna were like sisters up until the point where he realized his feelings for Celestia were romantic in nature; so he had foster family, and he had a lover, and he had a teacher, but he never just had a friend. Since people who have siblings claim to have no friends all the time, this doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
I'll buy any ship or lack of ship that's well written and seems in character, so I don't object to the Fluttercord shippers who don't perceive past-Dislestia as a thing, but it's the stupid ship warring and arguing over it that appalls me. Maybe because my background in prior fandoms has been mostly with slash ships, which everyone knows will never be canon, but the idea of having a war over whether or not your ship is canon is just utterly stupid to me.
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This actually may be just be Discord acting like Discord. If you count this as attraction then you will have to also add his attraction to Twilight since he do more stuff with her than with Celestia (stroking her chin, wrapping around her like snake, entire TAC sequence with dancing and taking her horn and turning it into a bouquet of RED ROSES, not like in case of Celestia, flowers in colors of friendship). So he either love both Celestia and Twilight or none of them.
There are only 2 ponies whome he treat kind enough that even help them not expecting nothing in return. First one is Twilight in Twilight Kingdom where he eavesdropping that Twilight feel not important. He goes out of his way to show her all answers to Rainbow Power and new kingdom.
Second is Fluttershy; Not only he is behaving himself for her, but also in comics he organise a suprise party with talking animals for her without any occasion. He is also going to take her and CMC to see extinct animals, something Fluttershy would really love.
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Actually seeing how in Equestria Girls, Twilight fell for a monkey man, a tottaly different new species after only 5 minutes it would suggest that she is very attracted to other exotic races since she never had a crush on any normal pony in FiM. Same with Sunset Shimmer who also dated human Flash.
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"Awkward Conversations" was, incidentally, one of my main sources for working out my Discord's moral outlook, particularly where sex was concerned. Which is to say mostly amoral, rather selfish, and more than a bit air-headed in application. Which doesn't mean that he can't love, of course -- just that his behavior toward beings he doesn't love is not likely to be, well, exemplary.
Discord in general divides Ponykind into Ponies he gives a damn about (Celestia, Luna, Fluttershy, Twilight, to a lesser extent the rest of the Mane Six, a few others here and there) and Ponies he doesn't. Ponies he gives a damn about he tries to be minimally "nice" to (by his definition of "nice," which can be pretty obnoxious at times by our definitions). Ponies he doesn't give a damn about he makes no effort to treat nicely, save as treating them nastily might affect the good opinion of the few he does give a damn about.
The reason why Fluttershy makes such a good Morality Chain for him is that he loves her and he knows she's soft-hearted. The whole point of this story in that regard is that something threatens to snap that Morality Chain, and everypony is scared of what may happen if it breaks. And an exploration of why being a Morality Chain may be less than enjoyable for said Chain.
Your interpretation of what Discord meant by "never had a friend before" is a good one. Discord was (in my fanon backstory, which I got from Warlorn) raised at Paradise Estate with a small group of Ponies who were essentially like his family (where our fanon backstories are very similar is that he was in particular raised with Celestia and Luna, and he fell in love with Celestia and very much liked Luna as well). Sp yes -- he could have meant "I never had a friend before who wasn't raised with me," he could have meant "I never had a sincere friend before" (because Celestia and Luna turned on me and whoever I worked with as a Mad Tyrant were my Minions not my friends), he could have meant all sorts of things.
Or he might just have been lying a little to Fluttershy because "say anything." And yes, in that last case, that's an immoral thing to do, but as I posted, Discord's not an examplar of morality.
He may very well love Celestia. And Twilight. And Fluttershy. Why not?
He's had some of the most fun since his release playing with Twilight Sparkle. She's brilliant and can sometimes see through his schemes. He has to make an effort to trick her. Oh, and as of Twilight's Kingdom, she explicitly stated he was her friend and proceeded to prove it by insisting to Tirek on his release. This right after Discord betrayed everypony, which means she cared about Discord enough to forgive him.
Maybe he does want to have sex with Twilight. Again, you keep assuming he's monogamous. On what do you base this assumption?
He may be far, far more polyamorous than Fluttershy, because Fluttershy (canon or mine) actually has sexual morals -- I think you'd have to be at least her good friend to have sex with her.. We have seen no indication that Discord has much of any sexual morals. And he's an insane novelty-seeker.
Now, would Twilight want to have sex with Discord? Almost certainly not. She's as far as I can tell monogamous, virginal and probably intends to save herself for her husband or at least intended. And she knows Discord's untrustworthy, so I don't think she rates his fidelity highly.
It's a big step from "I like you enough to save you from an evil kaiju" to "take me, I'm yours."
She probably does find Discord very interesting. From a scientific point of view.
Oh, as for xenophilia? Twilight is not a normal Pony, she's a brilliant scholar, scientist and mage who is unusually accepting of and fascinated by strangeness. And she was in the form of the same species as Flash Sentry when she encountered him. And, as I suggest in An Epistolary Legal Consultation Between Princesses, dealing with some pretty unexpected hormonal surges at the time.
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They're in human bodies, with human hormones, at the time. Doesn't count. Rarity and Fluttershy are potentially xenophiles at least to some degree, since Rarity may possibly have romantic feelings for Spike and be restraining herself for the sake of his age, not species, and Fluttershy may have romantic interests in Discord (and in general loves animals more than she loves ponies, though not romantically most of the time). There's no evidence that any of the others are and not a lot of interspecies marriage or romance visible in Pony society.
As for Discord having a thing for Twilight... well, yes. I think he totally does. But that one isn't reciprocated, he knows it, and most of the time he likes it that way... I think part of what he finds attractive about Twilight is how very unlike him she is and the conflict and disharmony generated any time he has dealings with her. I mean, in Three's A Crowd he engineered the whole thing mainly to annoy Twilight on a day she was spending time with a friend who wasn't him; that screams to me that he has strong feelings for Twilight (maybe not romantic ones but certainly a strong desire for a connection of some sort) and that he was jealous of Cadance. He plainly loves Fluttershy, whether romantic or platonic, but he also plainly loves to make Twilight hate him, and for the Spirit of Disharmony, that's probably the closest to love he usually gets. Also, chaos. Discord isn't monogamous and his feelings don't make sense when viewed from our standard romantic paradigm. (Frankly, while I don't ship it, one could make a case that he had a crush on Tirek... I don't see Discord as being overly restrained by concepts like monogamy or heterosexuality.)
My major objection to Discolight is that I've never seen a realistic take on it that made Twilight's end of it believable. I think it can be done, I've just never seen it done. Fluttershy reciprocates Discord's affection at least to some extent; Twilight does not. As for Dislestia, the very fact that Celestia has Discord released to be reformed, and then forgives him in Twilight's Kingdom, suggests that she may have loved him once, because seriously why would you cut Discord that much slack for any other reason?
I'm quite convinced that if Discord could only get the ladies to cooperate, he would be perfectly happy to have a harem of Celestia, Fluttershy, Twilight, and maybe Pinkie Pie (it's notable that while he chased her off when she offered to take care of him in Three's A Crowd, he did it by giving her something she would enjoy to distract her, whereas he chased Applejack and Rarity off by getting them sick.) The only one I see reciprocating right at this minute is Fluttershy, but that doesn't mean Discord doesn't have feelings for the others.
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Sunset Shimmer is also not an exemplar of morality, though we don't know how sexually-intimate she was with Flash (she seems to be about lust for power more than lust for sex, and if that world is like ours, the girl wins by not giving up too much). Also, she was trapped in that world for an unknown future -- for all she knows she will never be a Pony again -- and she may have been going native. Flash is likeable -- and he's also protective and strong, a far better assistant / minion than Snips and Snails. It's never explained why they broke up, but it's possible that something she wanted him to do (cruel, and to someone else) violated Flash's own moral standards -- he seems a pretty good guy, after all.
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I guess im using Hasbro utopian headcanon world where everyone have 1 partner and dont have sex until marriage
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Its hard for me to believe that if i turned you into lizard, and while keeping your mind intact you would feel attracted to another lizard after few minutes. Not unless you have some attraction to lizards to begin with. Same if you swap your brain with a male. It doesnt mean you will feel attracted to females even though you recieve male horomones. Thats why there are transexual men who have a body and hormones of a male but still feel like a woman trapped in a male body. Meghan just didnt thought about it when forcing FlashLight into this movie.
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There are many virtuous mares and honorable stallions who would meet your requirements. Some of them are members, family members, or good friends of the Mane Six. Even in my world (and note: my Equestrians tend to be more romantically-idealistic than is popular in the modern West).
Discord, however, is not like that. There are hints that he's not like that in canon, and it is an extremely easy extrapolation from what we see on screen. He's amoral, hedonistic and selfish (unlike, say, Pinkie Pie, who is hedonistic but honorable and willing to sacrifice a lot for her friends). Some versions of Pinkie are promiscuous, but only anti-Pinkies like the one from the Cupcakes stories actually like hurting Ponies. We know that Discord, in certain moods, enjoys hurting Ponies -- we've seen him act like this on screen.
I find it very hard to imagine a morally-upright Discord -- unless we're talking about the Good Discord from the Mirrorverse, who may well be.
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As for Pony Twilight's feelings for Human Flash when she was in Human Twilight form ...
You're not getting it. Twilight is not xenophobic. She's lived with a Dragon as her little brother. She was perfectly capable of grasping, and did grasp, that the Humanoids were a sapient species capable of goodness and love and friendship just as are the Ponies. Given that, she was capable of feeling love and friendship toward them as well.
However, Twilight was not familiar with the hormonal fluxes of her Humanoid body. What probably happened to cause her to be so flustered by Humanoid Flash was that she was experiencing always-on Human sexuality after having known a more cyclical emotional condition as a Pony (where she only had to watch out for a strong sex drive at certain times). Because Twilight is sapient, and highly intelligent to boot, she didn't actually have sex with anyone in the Humanoid verse -- but she felt a very strong and irrational sexual attraction toward the first sympathetic male figure she encountered. Does it make sense to you now?
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To put it another way on the sexual morals issue.
I can believe that the Ponies of Equestria have a higher sexual morality than does our present-day Western culture. I in fact modeled the morality of the Ponies in my stories on that of America c. 1900 with a good deal less sexual abuse and hypocrisy than was common in that era. In other words, Bradbury's America.
However ...
... in canon, the Ponies are not perfect. I doubt they are perfect in their sexual morals any more than they are in any other aspect of their lives. What's more, in life s**t happens. One may intend to live a near-perfect life and bad things can happen to one. One can make all sorts of mistakes or suffer bad luck.
The Ponies are not turned off on a cookie-cutter any more than we Humans are. Some of them are more virtuous than others. Some of them have differing opinions of the nature of "virtue," both in sexual and in other matters. (Ask Applejack and Rarity about the ethics of lying to spare hurting the feelings of others, and watch the ensuing argument). They differ from one another. They are individuals. They disagree.
This is true even for fundamentally-virtuous Ponies (such as Applejack and Rarity in my example). It is even more true for entities which are not all that virtuous -- such as Discord.
For that matter, biologically Discord isn't even a Pony -- though non-Pony Spike is a better Pony than many born Ponies, so he doesn't get a pass on that.