The term "canon" can mean one of two things:

-Cannon, a high-caliber piece of artillery used to strike targets from a vast distance. Usually used from behind cover, and usually fires high-explosive or fragmentation shells.

-Canon, a photography company well known for making disposable film cameras and professional-grade film and digital cameras.

-Canon, a work of fiction's contingency within a series either as a new installment or work of fanart.

And, unless you have a brick in place of your brain, you should know that I'm here to talk about the latter.

I'm going to state here and now that there are ways to loophole canon, and that is by creating an Alternate Universe (Which is even a tag you can use for your stories here on FiMFic). Here, you can really do what you please as long as it remains MLP, and it is typically done with crossovers; given that you're injecting one universe into another. Doing this is by all means accepted, and, as long as the story itself is good, shouldn't receive any bad rap.

It's when you're not creating an alternate universe and you rewrite canon that you do receive flak from readers. The thing is (Again, excluding an alternate universe), is that canon is a very fickle thing. If you're using something that has been unconfirmed in the show, it will be marked as non-canon. While certain small details can slip by, the thing you would change that would bring down a figurative wrecking ball on your story is altering personalities.

For example, we know that Rainbow Dash is, for the most part, boisterous and rash. So suddenly making her shy and withdrawn when she is the mirror opposite will often raise an eyebrow. Make it too often with too many characters, and your story will sink like the Luistania into the sea of bad fiction.

Another example would be by altering a character's speech pattern. For example, we know that Trixie Lulamoon is an illeist (i.e. she speaks in a third-person perspective). So suddenly making her speak in first person would also be a big fat example of breaking canon. (Of course, it may just be how she speaks to other ponies and thus usually uses it when she's in solitude. But, hey, how are we to know?)

The point is, unless you're armed to tackle it, you should be writing non-canon things. Just be sure that you mark very prominently when something major is non-canon. Otherwise, people are going to know, and they're not going to be happy about it.

What about cannon?

1699973
It goes boom. Class dismissed.

1699973

1699962 So when will we get our lesson on cameras?

1699973

It just pains me to see cannon broken so often.

1700018

Get it right!

1699962 Note to writers: canon is sometimes interpreted differently by different people. So if you get one comment saying "this goes against canon," or especially "this gos aganst cannon," you don't need to worry. If you get multiple comments to that effect, you may want to consider the point.

note 2: it's okay to go against canon temporarily. If you eventually explain why Rainbow Dash is acting shy and withdrawn, and it's a well-conceived reason, you can have her act that way, for a time.

note 3: when in doubt, get a couple people to look at your work. They'll usually be able to help.

1699962 So, from what you're saying, would headcannons be AU, or is it still considered inside the boundaries of "canon?"

1701427

Note to writers: canon is sometimes interpreted differently by different people. So if you get one comment saying "this goes against canon," or especially "this gos aganst cannon," you don't need to worry.

I find this advice to be very misleading.
Apparently if you don't somehow force Shining Armor as a sibbling for your fic because your story was written shortly before the advent of the episode, you will be blasted to the ends of oblivion.

I had seen one story on this site that gave Twilight both a brother and sister, but after the wedding episode aired...

Jesus, the flame war that spurred was so ferocious that the author just deleted all his stories entirely and left the site. Shame, it had a promising beginning too.

This only was an isolated incident, but it scares me sometimes how attach some people are to canon. Then again, I am attached to my own head canon, so perhaps this is a tad bit hypocritical for me to say.

Though I am still somewhat bitter for canon essentially forcing stories to be invalidated one way or the other, causing the writer in question to alter the very core essence of what made the story for what it was.

Past Sin's is a lesser example of this.
As of two months plus ago, the story has been completely updated, removing all references to Season 1 Luna's personality. I mean all of it.

(Before any of you jackhole tell me that Luna had no personality back then, perhaps you haven't heard of the following she had garnered before the bloody Luna Eclipse episode aired. )

Hell, even with the AU tag, people on both sides will bitch. (Me included.)
I will freely admit to becoming rather cynical and awash with bitter discontent, attacking new writers that have asked advice on the forum with rancid retribution. In short, I have attempted to kill ideas that they had that seemed to go out of line of canon. Even if it is nonsense, it doesn't seem to be worth it these days to attempt anything that goes against canon that has been established.

Even stories written before a canon has been written aren't immune, as with Past Sins.
There was one Pokemon story arc on fanfiction.net that had a story (now deleted and nameless) with some promising potential.

Then Generation 5 came along.

To give you some perspective as to what happened, around 20k worth of words had been rewritten around two times before the author gave up on it and deleted it. To this day, I still have yet to rediscover the author themselves.

In any case, canon is something that should be treated with the utmost caution.
My advice? Do not attempt to write or continue to write anything goes against canon. (Again, I am hypocritical in this.) Your awesome idea of giving Twilight a sibbling? Too bad, Shining Armor has come in to kick that story to the curb. You can now politely take your story idea out to the back and have him put down, quietly if I may add.

Want to write an ascension fic for Twilight?
Too bad. Either you go with the S3 version of things or do not even attempt to write it at all.

The Mane 6 get boyfriends?
Break up, kill off the shipping that you have made, anything that will break them up and conform with canon. Your waifu shipping does not stand against canon period.

If you wish to write it, keep it the hell off this site.
It might be called fanfiction, but not even that excuse will not be enough.
Give it time, and the fandom will eventually give your story the cold shoulder.
Keep up with the times, or die off in obscurity.

1864478 Wow. I feel sorry for you, I've never had any experience like that. Honestly.

I've never had more than one person complain about something "going against canon" that was written before said canon was established.

Even with those exceptions, the comments were usually "it's a shame this isn't canon"

And, since every story is non-canon, I feel that any reader who expects all writers to toe the party line with every single word they utter is a reader who doesn't understand what fanfiction is.

1864478
1865299

I'm with Blagdaross.
I say do whatever you want in your story. Just make sure that if you do veer from canon your reasoning actually makes sense and it isn't just thrown in. IE don't have an extra sibling suddenly show up for Twilight unless that's what your story is about or you've laid out some significant backstory in your fic prior to that bombshell that justifies it.

1865623
The most important thing to remember, though, is to write what makes you feel the best about it.

The story 1864478 was telling was an overreaction on both the reader and writer's parts, and if the writer simply ignored them and continued with whatever direction the story was going, then it would all be fine.

p.s. I appreciate the bumping of threads with content :)

1868333

The most important thing to remember, though, is to write what makes you feel the best about it.

I'm all for people writing whatever the hell they want to write. Please, go for it. What sucks is that a lot of writers don't understand that certain things are almost guaranteed to turn people off from their stories simply because they go against canon. So I think it's important to understand that IF you are going to go against canon, more so than just "extrapolating" like most people do, you do it knowing what will happen and treat it appropriately. That way we don't have people making threads going, "Why won't people view my story??!!!??!!"

1865623>>1865299>>1864478>>1868333
What if the canon is yet to be established, but certainly will be established? For example, several things hint at season 4 revealing how Luna came to be Nightmare Moon in the past. Yet the very lack of explanation to this process is what has given many authors fuel for their stories (counting me among them).

Now I suppose one way to deal with this is finish the story before season 4 kicks off, but there's way too much ground to cover to do that. How else could I deal with it? Should I put an Alternate Universe-Tag at my story, as soon as the episodes air, or should I set myself to completely scrap my story, since it most likely contradicts everything that the show establishes as canon? Or should I soldier on, in the hopes that everything will be just fine?
And rewrite the backstory is not an option either, since I am way too progressed in my story to do any changes to Luna's past I thought up in my head.

1868354

I wouldn't even worry about it.

1868354 I'd just make it clear that this is your idea of how NNM came to be in the long description, and leave it at that. AU is usually for stuff that's not recognizably in Equestria.

1868418
Well, I can try, but I'm usually a worrywart, so things like that shake me up a bit in my writing endeavor. Especially since the story is very dear to me, so I'd rather know now if I should break my heart on it before I invest even more love and time into it.
If you say that this is just me driving myself crazy though, I'll gladly take this as encouragement to keep writing!

1868790
Like a disclaimer, add it at the end of the synopsis? That seems sensible. Weird, I've seen this kind of things at lots of stories, but I haven't thought of it for myself. Thanks for the advice!

1864478

The Mane 6 get boyfriends?
Break up, kill off the shipping that you have made, anything that will break them up and conform with canon. Your waifu shipping does not stand against canon period.

I have to say, I think this part at least is entirely wrong. Look, for example, at Avengers fandom. Most of them have canon love interests... so are the major ships there canon? No! Of course not! The major ships are slash ships between the main characters.

The fact is that when a large portion of a fandom ships something that they never expect to be canon, the fact that something else is canon won't bother them too much. Obviously <mane six's> love for <stallion> only shows that they're bisexual and confused about their feelings for <other mane six.>

Yeah, shipping is unlikely to crumble just because canon comes along. How popular is FlashLight compared to TwiDash, TwiLuna, or TwiLestia? Um, Flash who?

1865299 1865623>>1868333

Great... I have some explaining to do.

To clarify, I am not a victim of these type of comments, at least not directly for quite some time now. And I might have exaggerated a detail or two out of frustration when I wasn't thinking straight.

For example, the person I mentioned earlier was mainly driven more off by being insulted for his lack of grammar and redundant plot in his story. There were a few comments about his out of line material that did contribute to driving him off, though not the main reason.

What does causes me distress however, is the conduct of some of the fandom in regards to canon vs fanon in fanfiction. To further clarify, some of the fanon material I happen to favor have well... Faded from the face of the earth. It is as if touching said material is to be a death sentence to any who dare to use it.

1868354

What if the canon is yet to be established, but certainly will be established? For example, several things hint at season 4 revealing how Luna came to be Nightmare Moon in the past. Yet the very lack of explanation to this process is what has given many authors fuel for their stories (counting me among them).

Now I suppose one way to deal with this is finish the story before season 4 kicks off, but there's way too much ground to cover to do that. How else could I deal with it? Should I put an Alternate Universe-Tag at my story, as soon as the episodes air, or should I set myself to completely scrap my story, since it most likely contradicts everything that the show establishes as canon? Or should I soldier on, in the hopes that everything will be just fine?

And rewrite the backstory is not an option either, since I am way too progressed in my story to do any changes to Luna's past I thought up in my head.

This is one of the reasons why I am weary of any new episode these days. Every one has the potential to smash and destroy stories whose fanon is out of line. As if that wasn't bad enough, some authors seem to go to absurd lengths in terms of conformity. Twilicorn, the inclusion of Shining Armor and Cadence, the unexpected radical change to Luna's character are three that are at the top of my head.

Even the smallest of details will just send everything into anarchy. I am fearful of even becoming attached to fanfics these days, because there is no telling whether the author with implement major revisions in the light of new canon that will cause them to alter it in such a way so that it cannot be ignored.

Luna used to be a main favorite of mine, being that she was just as seemingly introverted and awkward in public, while also being modest at the same time in the S1 era of her character. After the Eclipse episode though... Well, there hasn't been any use of her S1 character for two years now. Her S1 personality the fandom created for her is completely dead, gone to the realms of oblivion. The current Luna is just too jarringly different for me to closely identify with her, even though I like this Luna as a character.

The way the rest of the authors I read seemingly conform on a whim just puts pressure that I have to do the same, and abandon fanon that has been ousted, regardless of the quality of the material itself and how it is used and executed.

1868816
If only that were so certain.
The way that it is now is that one is forced to incorporate anything the canon comes up with into their story, regardless of the detriment to the story. That goes for fanfics that are post episode as well.

Yeah, shipping is unlikely to crumble just because canon comes along. How popular is FlashLight compared to TwiDash, TwiLuna, or TwiLestia? Um, Flash who?

Ever seen a shipping being completely torpedoed forever?
I haven't personally, but I damn well have seen the aftermath of such effects.
A couple older threads that I dug up on a Pokemon forum used to have activity that thrived around some certain ship, only to die as canon deliberately destroys it to such a degree, that to continue it would be fandom heresy.

This is what I am afraid will happen.
Nobody uses the Season 1 version of Luna anymore.
Nobody will be able to create a story with Twilight Sparkle in it without including her brother and foalsitter, even if the writer can develop separate universes where they both do exist and where they don't.

It makes me wonder why we even bother to keep stories from the past if their fanon is so outdated that it might give writers the "wrong idea" so to speak.
Ugh. I know my logic is flawed in some places, but I cannot help but feel aggravated at how the fandom will change something on a whim, going so far as to incorporate a deliberate cash in change done to produce more money.

What's the point of being original and going one route, only for that possibility to be smashed by canon? Even if was a great idea, the fandom would seemingly discarded it for canon material only.

1869024

The way that it is now is that one is forced to incorporate anything the canon comes up with into their story, regardless of the detriment to the story. That goes for fanfics that are post episode as well.

I disagree with this, though I will point out that we're dealing with two different types of canon.

The first type is: Something that didn't used to be canon, but is now. Things like alicorn Twilight, Discord being reformed, or Flash Sentry.

Now, the site has separate tags for unicorn Twilight and alicorn Twilight, so it's easy enough to look and see that people are still using unicorn Twilight, and that some of those stories are well rated and no one is throwing fits in the comments.

Similarly, we have a canon love interest, and there have been a grand total of 42 fics tagged for him and romance (not even romance with Twilight, just Flash + Romance). Say that's been three months. In that time, 90 stories have been added to the TwiDash group.

Along the same lines, looking at recent stories, CheeriMac seems to have done nothing to stop FlutterMac. And despite Spike's crush on Rarity, he's regularly shipped with Dash, Twilight, Sweetie Belle, or Apple Bloom.

Now, I can kind of see the issue more with the second type of "new canon": things that are shown, which have presumably always been the case. Things like Luna's personality, finding out that Twilight has a brother, finding out that Celestia and Luna aren't the only alicorns.

In these cases, these things are more or less immutable fact. There was no time "before" Luna's season 2 personality, there were just guesses that people made. Twilight always had a brother, we just never knew it. Cadance has been an alicorn at least as long as Twilight has been alive, fans just assumed that there were only the two.

I can see people suggesting bringing fics like this in line with the show, or using the AU tag. There's nothing wrong with either of those options. There's no reason to stop writing a fic that's AU, that's what AU is for.

Ever seen a shipping being completely torpedoed forever?

With the exception of a major twist (where a character becomes evil, or is revealed to have been a robot or their sibling or something) or character death, I don't see how it could be. People fall in love and break up all the time. People are bisexual, or closeted. Other fandoms deal with this all the time when they don't like pairings canon gave them.

I think shipping is a little different from other forms of canon, because of that, and because of what I said above-- it's easier to ignore canon that is a progression of the story, rather than finding out something that supposedly always existed.

To both counter and reinforce my point: The one fandom I know of where shipping imploded after a ship was made canon was Harry Potter. In the early days of the fandom, the two major ships were Harry x Ginny, and Harry x Hermione, with Harry x Draco being behind those.

Now, when Harry x Ginny became canon, the Harry x Hermione people threw a hissy fit that practically broke the fandom. I do believe that ship sunk, more or less for good, because Harry x Ginny "won."

But you know what didn't sink? Harry x Draco. They never expected their ship to be canon, it was always just fantasies of how it might go, so canon had zero impact on their slash.

This fandom is all "Harry x Draco" style shippers. Any Mane Six x Mane Six shipper who thinks their ship is canon, or going to be canon, is delusional. But that means that I don't think anything could sink the big ships here.

1869304

Now, I can kind of see the issue more with the second type of "new canon": things that are shown, which have presumably always been the case. Things like Luna's personality, finding out that Twilight has a brother, finding out that Celestia and Luna aren't the only alicorns.

In these cases, these things are more or less immutable fact. There was no time "before" Luna's season 2 personality, there were just guesses that people made. Twilight always had a brother, we just never knew it. Cadance has been an alicorn at least as long as Twilight has been alive, fans just assumed that there were only the two.

I can see people suggesting bringing fics like this in line with the show, or using the AU tag. There's nothing wrong with either of those options. There's no reason to stop writing a fic that's AU, that's what AU is for.

... Forgive me if I misinterpret and go beyond your statement, but does the bolded mean that the fics written beforehand are pointless? Like I said, not even AU seems to cut it anymore. You either go with the flow, or just flicker off evermore. Granted, there are exceptions such as in shipping, but otherwise developing fanon seems to be a pointless endeavor.

What is the point putting in passion for one's fanon, only to be told it is trite and utterly worthless? Being told that your fanon never was translates to me that your universe that you have crafted isn't special, something with no worth and a complete waste of time. So illogical I am being, yet I wonder why we even continue to keep the fanon from the past if no one is using it. The stories that used the now obsolete fanon are not being read, so why keep them?

The bolded feels like I am being told one's constructed universe is not worth being paid any attention, silly as it may seem.

Logically, would it not be wise to implement a policy forbidding speculation on episode till they are released? That would prevent any creation of stories that are inaccurate. So what if creativity is stifled? At least it prevents such discord like what I speak of now. All the more skilled and well known writers on this site have already removed most of all their references to fanon that actively contradict the canon present in the show, so why not follow their example and either remove or segregate such inadequacies into separate portions of the site?

This way, one can eliminate the pesky niche fanon that some so stubbornly cling to.
Cut off and divide the readers to choose between a large, always growing pool, or being rendered thirsty in the limited fanon environment.

Canon is to be obeyed. Fanon to be slayed.
Perhaps illogical, but better order and consistence than to rely on faulty deviations.
Better to crush a disappointment in the making early, then let it sprout and die later.
Speculation like that of the New Lunar Republic, Vinyl's eye color, and so forth are dangerous in that it splits the fandom apart. Such things need to be eliminated completely, dissenters silence, for this fandom to continue.

Would it be better to lose a few stragglers, or preserve the majority quo?
Since we have a proper canon character to ship Twilight Sparkle with, the other shippings are no longer required and from this point obsolete. To violate that canon is an absurdity, is it not? How many people care for their TwiShip? There are many, but are not the majority. Inconsistency with canon is a gross disrespect to the show and characters, correct?

Ugh. My apologies if I sound like a madman, but why this fandom wishes to continue some fanon, and others not just drives me to irritation to no end.

But to be consistent is to preserve the standard quality quo.
Thus one should encourage others to engage in active cleanup of content that does not meet that quota. That way, everyone stays true to the show spirit, with no deviation whatsoever.

1869435

... Forgive me if I misinterpret this, but does the bolded mean that the fics written beforehand are pointless? Like I said, not even AU seems to cut it anymore. You either go with the flow, or just flicker off evermore.

No, it means that fic written before are AU. I'd love it if you'd link me to an AU-tagged fic that's had complaints about something being not canon (after the AU tag was in place), because those commenters win for totally missing the point of the tag.

Not that that's impossible, I have romance fics where people complain about shipping.

But Tchernobog's Felt Heart came out after alicorn Twilight, and featured unicorn Twilight, and he had no problems with it. Applejinx's ongoing Trixieverse novels reformed Trixie and had her living in Ponyville at least a year before Twilight became an alicorn, and no one has mentioned that it's not canon (it's not canon in so many other ways that I'm surprised he didn't add an AU tag, but that's another question.) The Cupcake Chronicles and it's continuation are all based in an Equestria where Pinkie is dead... once again, no one has complained. And none of those are even marked AU.

I think this might be a problem that affected a story you liked, and you're projecting it onto the whole fandom. I've personally never seen this sort of thing happen. I'm not saying that it doesn't here or there, but you'd think that if there was some wide-spread war on AU fics, it would have spilled over someplace I might have noticed.

1869558

Bah...

I think this might be a problem that affected a story you liked, and you're projecting it onto the whole fandom. I've personally never seen this sort of thing happen. I'm not saying that it doesn't here or there, but you'd think that if there was some wide-spread war on AU fics, it would have spilled over someplace I might have noticed.

You would be partially correct about this. In short, a few stories that I held close were altered in a way to my disliking. In a way, I vent off childishly by posting comments here to express my frustration, for I have no other effective way show it other than to moan about it on end. It won't change a damned thing, and I know it, yet for reasons beyond me I continue to whine.

Hell, it has gotten to the point where I have started a group solely to house the majority of my rants where possible, away from prying eyes and to stop spamming the forums of other groups. There isn't any logical reason that comes to mind as to why I rant. I suppose one could claim it is part nostalgia, part frustration, part resentment, and part bitterness that contribute to my attitude whenever the topic of canon comes up.

I suppose this is where the word insanity would come in. I haven't reach that level yet, but the obsession with this topic can safely be considered to be beyond any reasonable person out here on this site. Part of what made this fandom so special for me was the dedicated fanbase and lore that it held. Not only it was refreshing to see something that wasn't so grim and barren, but also limitless potential for expanding upon the mythos of this franchise with your own take. Season 1 gave the perfect environment for that to take place. Hell, it gave rises to many of the background ponies we see here today. I appreciated and admired the amount of devotion the fanbase had for creating such lore and background.

Fallout Equestria, Silent Ponyville, Past Sins, Sunshine and Fire, Allegarezza, Missing Pieces of a Broken Moon, and so forth.

Then the mold began to be filled in by official content.
All of a sudden, the spark for that creativity and diversity just... Fizzled out.
The continuity between fanfiction began to tighten. Stories began to look more similar by the day.
I think what put the nail in the coffin for me personally was the wedding episode.
I know goods things never last, but I didn't expect it to burn out so to speak this soon.
Yet no matter how much I hope otherwise, things just seems become more monotone and uniform. This is one of the reasons why I am so apprehensive about newer episodes, like I said before. What will happen next?

Yet I am hardly able to place a word of my concerns without sounding like a complete whiny brat. I wouldn't blame anyone if that label were to be applied to me. It does at least partially. Eloquence in written vernacular seems to be stilted, cryptic, and without meaning.

People complain about Twilicorn, but give them a year or two, and I am almost certain that it shall become the more dominant the more time goes by. Hell, if it happened to Luna, whose to say that it won't happen to Twilight?

This is why I am advocating in a very acidic, sarcastic way of enforcing a canon clause, one that will force writers to either keep up with the status quo in keeping in line with canon, or face deletion of their story.

As for any stories in the past? Why exempt them from the same process?
If canon is so important, then even those stories cannot be spared the ban hammer.

1700014 BTW I found this off the internets, from here