In case the title didn't give it away, I will be taking about events that occurred during the season finale of season three. So if you have yet to watch it or find out what happened, don't read beyond this point. Seriously though, if you haven't watched it yet, why are you even here? Go do that. Right now.

Moving on to the actual discussion. As we know, Twilight transformed into an alicorn due to completing Starswirl's spell. Also, it appears Celestia has something to do with the transformation as well. If we watch during the song Celestia rises up and shines for a few moments and then the transformation occurs. While this could have been to just add dramatic emphasis on Celestia during the end of the song, I also believe it might play another role in the transformation. Perhaps completing the spell merely unlocked Twilight's potential to be an alicorn and Celestia actualized that? That is one area where I would like to see some different inputs and opinions.

Another sticking point is who exactly has the potential to become an alicorn? Based on what we've seen it seems only unicorns have that potential as it appears magic plays an integral role in the transformation. However, isn't it possible anybody could have 'completed' Starswirl's spell as it merely involved writing down the missing words. If that is the case, could a pegasus or earth pony be made into an alicorn as well? If that is not the case, it seems to turn the unicorns into what Nietzsche calls the Ubermensch or in this case Uberpony. Prehaps saying it turns unicorns into uberponies is abit off as the alicorn seems to be the highest form of existence, making alicorns the uberponies. If that is the case, then unicorns are the only ones who can reach that potential and, according to Nietzsche view, all other ponies wouldn't have an inherent purpose in life as it is impossible for the other two races to actualize becoming an alicorn.

Another issue with becoming an alicorn is, what does being an alicorn entail? The only thing we have seen actualized by becoming an alicorn is that one acquires wings. Does becoming an alicorn grant immortality, or are Celestia and Luna special cases for other reason? Does being an alicorn boost ones magic abilities to a higher level or not? Until we acquire more information, this area is very much subject to debate.

Moving on to the title of Princess which is granted upon Twilight ; I believe it helps solves the debate over what form/ type of government runs Equestria. It seems to me now that the government of Equestria is an Aristocracy. Aristocracy derives itself from the Greek word aristokratia, meaning rule of the best. In modern times, we often misassociate the world aristocracy to simply meaning 'the ruling/elite' class, where being 'elite' defines having the most money of power. That is not what the word originally meant in Greek however. Instead, an Aristocracy was meant to be a rule by those who were actually best fit to lead. Plato advocated that this form of government was the best form in his book, The Republic. Plato argued however that it was impossible to maintain as those best to rule eventually die and they are hard to replace. This problem is solved with immortality, and if that is a trait granted to alicorns, then Plato's ideal of an Aristocracy is actualized in Equestria. This does however, call into question wither or not being an alicorn entails being the best fit to rule. While it certainly seems that way upfront, that does not necessarily have to be the case.

Well,. that is all I have for now. I'll be interested to see everyone's input on this. Also, I'm new here so I hope I did well and hopefully you all won't rip this post to shreds!

If I had to put it into words, it'd be more a pony (or any other being), discovering some crucial part of the world and actualizing that within themselves. Without further information on Starswirl's cutie mark, it's unknown if his special talent was magic itself like Twilight's was. In Twilight's case, it was magic itself, not the study or application of it, but the actual raw, elemental force. In my own fanon, Sirius (the being that became the deity of the diamond dogs) actualized the notion of preying on other creatures, and this heralded the rise of predators in the world. As the first, he was elevated to godhood. For Cadance, she actualized the knowledge of how to inspire that spark of love from nothing (at least as I see it), and was elevated to Princess of Love accordingly.

Now, to make the stage from an actualized alicorn to the level of alicorn Celestia and Luna are, takes both time and detachment from the world by the alicorn in question. Twilight and Cadance have not become as Celestia and Luna because they, to borrow from Avatar, have not unlocked their seventh chakra to open themselves to the cosmic energy that defines their purview. Once Cadance learns to let go of Shining Armor, and Twilight her friends, then they too will ascend.

Whew, more than I thought I'd say

I posted a similar blog in the writer's group. From what I leaned there, Celestia's horn didn't glow during the transformation. Also the magic that transformed Twilight was the color of her own magic. Every thing else is up for grabs. I really how the righters give us more insight on these topics in future episodes. No doughy it will play a big role in the season 4 opener.

735641

I like the idea you have of two levels of alicorn, one being simply actualized and the other being a form of 'full potential' unlocked. I can definitely see the connection with Avatar there and I like the referencing to the seven chakras . My personal view on it would be something similar. They have to face themselves and let go of what gives them strength internally so that they may stand on their own as fully realized alicorns. A question that raises though is what did Celestia and Luna have to let go, give up on, or face in order to ascend to the level they reached?

735661
Ah, that's a bit of a tale to weave, though they're a bit of a special case, in that they started out at the full realized stage, and post-Discord lowered a portion of themselves to interact with the world on a permanent basis. For further information, feel free to read my stories Heart of Stone and When Gods Convene (will PM you the Gdocs link for When Gods Convene, it still needs some work before I consider it okay for FimFiction), and once I get it going my story Coming Home (that one will have hints of what Celly and Luna sacrificed to be able to maintain their state in the world)

Personally, I feel that there are not many internally-consistent and useful headcanons to be derived from the finale, due simply to the awful plotting of the episode. Nearly everything we saw in the episode explicitly or implicitly conflicts with information we have seen before. Note that I'm not saying there are no headcanons to be drawn from it, because there are plenty. I am only saying that what this episode shows us introduces many problems with regard to what the rest of the series has shown us.

For example, the finale's handling of cutie marks as things which force a destiny upon ponies directly contradicts The Cutie Mark Chronicles, in which cutie marks are passive indicators of a pony's passion in life.

In the finale, we see unicorn magic which is purely verbal and does not involve horn-glowing or any other visible sign of spellcasting, and apparently that form of magic is the most powerful. (If rhyming, spoken spells are the most powerful form of magic, then Zecora must be like Merlin, heh.)

Even figuring out what actually caused Twilight's alicornization is difficult. She spoke a rhyming line (which is apparently a powerful form of magic), the Elements of Harmony made her explode (Why did they do that? Why did she explode? She left a scorch mark, FFS), she went to a dream/other plane/alternate reality/the afterlife and Celestia was there, Celestia tells her that she was watching and she's happy that Twilight solved the problem (which means Celestia knew full well the pain she would cause by sending Twilight that book, which leans pretty heavily toward canon Tyrantlestia), Celestia goes on to sing about having watched Twilight pretty much constantly since she was sent to Ponyville (Twilight didn't seem fazed by that, so apparently it's not invasion of privacy if the Princess does it?), and then Celestia is illuminated from behind as she sings about Twilight's destiny (notably she has no variety of spellcasting glow that we've seen before, but in this episode that might not be proof that she wasn't casting) and a pink magical bubble pops out of Twilight's chest and she becomes a magical girl alicorn. Then, during the coronation, Celestia mentions that Twilight "created new magic."

"Creating new magic" suggests that the spell (the rhyme) was the proximate cause of the alicornization. But how does that tie into the episode's heavy-handed insistence on destiny? If Twilight saying the spell is what made the alicornization happen, then the afterlife and Celestia's presence was merely a red herring because Twilight would have been alicorned by the magic bubble from her chest anyway. But one could also interpret "creating new magic" to mean that Celestia knew that sending Twilight the flawed spell would result in her rewriting it and being blasted by the Elements, and then Celestia was the actual agent of Twilight's transformation, instead of any mystical magical force. That second interpretation, to me, is strong evidence for canon Tyrantlestia, because Celestia does not explain what she is about to do nor does she ask Twilight for consent. She simply imposes a completely new life and a major body modification on Twilight.

So let us avoid that problem and say that completing the spell was the cause. But what of destiny? Was Twilight destined to say that spell at that time? That interpretation shatters any pretense of free will. Does "destiny" mean that Celestia always knew that Twilight would become an alicorn and she was manipulating events all along to get Twilight ready to complete that spell? That is plausible, but it directly contradicts the show's steady theme of self-determination. Or is destiny more powerful than that, and like the cutie marks imposing new personalities on the mane six, Twilight would have eventually become an alicorn anyway? But then why was Celestia watching and planning (remember, she had Star Swirl's spellbook in The Crystal Empire, Part 2) all this time?

And so on. To my thinking, everything about this episode is problematic with regard to meshing with prior canon and headcanons based on prior canon, which presents significant difficulties for us as writers.

Headcanon time:

I don't think Cadence is a "true" alicorn, i.e. is a pegacorn, and not immortal. She's still powerful, and the princess of love/crystals/whatever it is this week.

In my perception Twilight didn't merely complete a spell, she (quoting Celestia) "Invented a new magic". I take this to mean she has discovered and actualized friendship as a branch of magic, which Starswirl was never able to do, because he hadn't spent (at least 2) years studying friendship, and experiencing it. He probably wasn't an Element either.

Celestia and Luna were possibly a part of the unicorn teams that raised the sun and moon before, and ascended by gaining a deeper understanding and connection with their respective astral bodies.

I think there are just some ponies who are "made" with the ability to become an alicorn. Twilight wasn't just any old unicorn, remember: she was the Element of Magic, the most powerful unicorn that even Celestia had ever seen, and the only one to unlock the secrets of friendship. She always had the potential to become a Princess, but Celestia had to guide her and nurture her abilities. From there, Twilight just "grew" into the role on her own. I imagine Cadance was either born as an alicorn or went through some similar trials off-screen before she took up the mantle of ruler of the Crystal Empire. Perhaps just being born with wings and not knowing what that meant was trial enough; growing up different from everypony else would be the perfect crucible to learn the value of friendship.

I think alicorn potential ponies are special cases, born with all the potential already there, but they need some kind of catalyst to complete their transformation. They have to understand the magic of friendship and all that that entails before they unlock their own power.

I kind of explored that in Whisper Sun, Silent Moon. Luna and Celestia had to face a journey far from home, an apocalyptic war, and who knows what else before they acquired the Elements and their immortality. It's like alicorns are meant to be what they are, but the world or fate or life or whatever sets trials in front of them so they can prove they're ready. Even without fanon it's pretty clear that Celestia and Luna have been through a lot and suffered greatly to be proven worthy of the responsibility they have.

735698
Honestly I've always seen it as more Chesslestia than Tyrantlestia. Celestia plays the long game, and trying to examine the moves she's made after the fact is deeply flawed because you're examining only one of who knows how many outcomes could have resulted.

735705

So it's much like a Calvinist idea of predestination. Those who are predestined to become alicorns are going to become alicorns, no matter what actions they do? Or perhaps they are pre-destined to commit the actions that will turn them into alicorns. In that case, what about pony free-will? Is every ponie's actions pre-destined and there is only a determination form of free-will? Or is it just perhaps just alicorns that are pre-destined?

735698

While I agree with you that the episode could have been done better, it doesn't change the fact that we have to do our best to interpret the events that occurred to aid in the building of our headcanons. While I can certainly see the validity of the facts you point out about Tyrantlestia but at the same point I do have to agree with Fang on this issue that is seems more Chesslestia.

Ok, here is my theory about this, and this theory focus on Twilight and Cadance as I have enough info about them.

Starswir tried to become Alicorn, create a spell what would change him, as we can see in the episode, it was spell what was meant to change destiny, maybe he tried to change his own destiny and that way start his own transformation, but in the end he failed, probably even did some damage with cutie marks of other ponies what made him stop working on it.
Celestia saw potential in Twilight and train her in magic so she can become as smart and skilled as Starswir, but then she send her to ponyvile to study friendship and make Twilight pass tests, chalenges and trials to see if she is worth of becoming Alicorn ( unlocking elements help alot ).

Considering what Celestia said on coronation, we can assume that you must create a new magic to initiate transformation, Twilight somehow create a new magic, magic of friendship, and it make sense, since in Equestria emotions seems to be strong power source, for example, love, Cadance is Alicorn of love, Changelings feed on love to recover they magic reserves, Sombra represent hate and anger with his dark magic, and elements represent harmony as power source.

So Twilight to become Alicorn had to make new magic, magic of friendship, to do it she need: Friends, Elements of Harmony, ability to put puzzles together, Book with started but not finished spell.

I think Celestia did not support transformation, she just witnessed it, as bubble what transform Twilight was purple, just like Twilight magic, Celestia magic is yellow.

As result Twilight create new branch of spell casting what power source come from friendship/cooperation between ponies.

Now I will expand this with Cadance, Cadance is Alicorn of love, she have Crystal Heart cutie mark and Crystal Ponies called her Crystal Princess.

My theory is that Cadance was Crystal Pony, and there is not a single one Crystal Pony with Horn or Wings, they are almost like Earth Ponies.
One Crystal Pony figured out how to utilize power of love, and since they can not cast spell, she had to create crystal heart, a artefact what can use love energy from crystal ponies to create some sort of defence again threats and to spread happiness, and at the same time, she create a new branch of magic, magic of love, and it turned this crystal pony into Alicorn, and Crystal Ponies made her they princess.

Next we get Sombra start his campaign, Cadance run to Equestria and ask Celestia and Luna for help, they help and defeat Sombra ( with or without elements ), but Sombra take Crystal Empire with him.

Cadance end up without kingdom, just with tittle, she have no power in Equestria, and she was under Luna and Celestia care ( after Nightmare Moon incident she was under Celestia wing only ), but Cadance not wanted to be a burden, so she did some small jobs to gain bits and to pass time, one of those jobs were babysit Twilight, and from time to time, she spread love in Canterlot.
And once Crystal Empire returned, Cadance tried her best to protect it, but as much as she could keep it safe from Sombra with power of love, without Crystal Heart power it would be only temporary defence.

The only think I fail to explain is why Cadance is so small when she babysit Twilight, but I think it was just mistake from animators side.

I have no data on Celestia and Luna, but I can assume Luna turned into Alicorn when she created a Dream/night/shadow magic, something what let her to enter ponies dreams and minds ( Celestia could move both sun and moon, so we can assume that moving Moon was just Luna special talent ).

So in my theory, we can assume that you do not need to be Unicorn to transform into Alicorn, since Crystal Pony could do it too, also now when Twilight become Alicorn of friendship, other ponies will not be able to turn into Alicorn the same way, for example, maybe Cadance must die so another pony can become Alicorn of love, I am afraid I do not have enough info to back it up, but my theory about Twilight and Cadance seems to make sense when you think about it.

735705

I think Cadance create love magic, before that she was Crystal Pony what created Crystal Heart, artefact what let Crystal Ponies use they love as power source ( they have no wings, no horn, but they have magic inside, Crystal Heart was created to utilize it ), once Cadance made crystal heart, she transformed into Alicorn and were chosen to be they princess.

When Sombra tried to take over, Cadance run to Canterlot to ask for assistance, and it end up with Sombra and Empire gone, Cadance may have tittle of princess, but she hold no power in Equestria, so she just made some jobs to pass time and gain bits, and spread love from time to time.

And even if as Alicorn she is long living, as princess of love, she could not refuse to marry Shinning Armor, even if it would break her heart once he would die, she could not say no to true love.

*rubs hands in glee*
Alrighty my take on the process of Alicorn ascension. First thing, for a pony to become an Alicorn they must follow three factors, failure to have hall all three means they will not ascend.
1) Bloodline:
They must be a decedent of the First Alicorn who lived during the HWE-era, this Alicorn is in turn a decedent of Laurel the Blessed (who is in some metaphysical way the Goddess Epona herself).

2) Divine Blessing:
The deity that rules over their domain will bless them with their powers and warn them that their ascension is near. This is done in the form of a dream.

3) Emotional Stress:
Heighten emotions causes the ascension process to kick into overdrive. It doesn't matter if it is a positive or negative emotion.

Celestia and Luna are descended the eldest foal of the First Alicorn, and both were born Earth Ponies. Celestia received her blessing from Helios, God of the Sun, and extreme rage at Discord caused the emotional stress. Luna got her blessing from Selene, Goddess of the Sun, and fear was her emotion. Cadence was actually the youngest foal of the Alicorn and was born a Pegasus, she recived her blessing form Caelus, God of the Sky, and her emotional stressor was Love. Twilight is decendent of the middle foal, an Unicorn, her blessing came form Janus, God of the Veil and Magic, her emotional stressor was Joy.
----

The title of Princess... well that goes back to the First Alicorn. She, Sejr, was the daughter of an Unicorn named Rhodium, formerly Crown Prince Rhodium Blueblood II, Princess Platinum's older brother who abidicated the throne so he could marry an Earth Pony. The House of Blueblood accepts them all as family and are willing to declare them princesses or princes. In Twilight's case she may not have a lot in the way of political power.

735711 735746 I take your point, and I've always held that Chesslestia is plausible while Tyrantlestia isn't, given what we see in canon. However, the finale's insistence on destiny and fate tilts the scale the other way - if the finale's canon trumps prior canon, then Tyrantlestia is correct, because Celestia's plans for Twilight could not fail.

(Basically I just really hate the finale as a piece of writing and I would be delighted if someone figures out some way to reconcile it with prior canon in a way which does not completely invalidate the other 64 episodes.)

735796

You sound like you have a pretty well developed headcanon. I like your idea of the three requirements for becoming an alicorn, but that seems to strengthen the argument that only certain ponies will ever be able to achieve alicorn status and that they are infact like decedents of gods themselves, giving strength to the idea of Uberpony, a very Nietzsche like view on the subject. I'd like to know more about your backhistory and religion that you developed if that is alright!

735810

Well with the destiny and fate argument, that almost seems to attribute Omniscience to Celestia which we know she doesn't have because of the events during Cadence's wedding. Of course one could argue that Celestia knew it would occur and just let it happen, but I doubt that is the case.

735698
Well, this took me a bit to write, so I'm a little late now, but here we are anyway.

For example, the finale's handling of cutie marks as things which force a destiny upon ponies directly contradicts The Cutie Mark Chronicles, in which cutie marks are passive indicators of a pony's passion in life.

In the finale, we see unicorn magic which is purely verbal and does not involve horn-glowing or any other visible sign of spellcasting, and apparently that form of magic is the most powerful.

It is entirely possible that a unicorn's normal, wordless magic is unable to affect aspects of their own interior structure, e.g. their soul/spirit, and thus, spoken magic is one of the only ways to arrange their thoughts in such a way that they themselves - their true selves - are affected. Starswirl's original spell was obviously designed to rearrange internal harmonics in such a way as to create an alicornian internal balance inside oneself, but since he was (presumably) friendless and alone, he did not have the necessary harmonic potential to do so.

Twilight, on the other hoof, is harmonically empowered by the tight bonds she has with her friends. When she accidentally cast Starswirl's single-pony spell, the spell tried to rearrange her internal balance, but the spell was not designed for an internal balance coming from external sources. Thus, Twilight's friends themselves were "rearranged." This effect is, of course, ridiculously powerful, but no more powerful than the effects their friendships have created in the show thus far.

Even figuring out what actually caused Twilight's alicornization is difficult.

When she rewrote the spell, she wrote it not to rearrange her balance, but to optimize the balance that was already there, empowered by her friends. Since Twilight already had a royal buckton of Magic, though, it needed to draw additional harmonic energy from her friends (hence the beams). I don't think Twilight actually exploded - Celestia just whisked her away once the "charging" was finished, to the Astral Plane/Aether/Slipspace/whatever sub-realm is accessible by sun-/moon-/star-aligned beings.

I think that's a bit far-fetched to say that Celestia "knew" that Twilight would scramble her friends destinies. She probably knew what the spell was originally intended to do (or at least had researchers who could tell her), and knew that Twilight had the potential to make it work, but I doubt she knew of the unintended side-effects. We also notice that the magic that finally turns Twilight into an alicorn is drawn out of Twilight herself - Celestia is merely allowing her internal balance to manifest physically, like Malfrost said.

(Headcanon: When Cadance was "born" (Spoilers for my in-progress alicorns story, so I can't go into further detail), Celestia got a bunch of her top ponies to work on how the heck it was possible to create new alicorns. They came across Starswirl's research into the subject, which had likely been fueled by Celestia and Luna's initial return to Equestria, and Celestia held onto it until she found somebody worthy of testing it on - e.g., Twilight.)

As for whether Twilight had always been destined for this, or whether her "destiny" was artificially imposed by Celestia, we might not ever know - but destiny, and prophecies, and pre-determination are fickle and malleable things to begin with. In the Harry Potter series, for example, Neville Longbottom was also "destined" to be "the boy who lived" - Voldemort just happened to choose Harry's house to visit instead. In Kingdoms of Amalur, a setting entirely dictated by fate and pre-determined cycles, the main character is unique in that they have no destiny - except for the fact that, according to an old prophecy, a hero with no destiny was destined to arise, because no one was destined to defeat the giant evil thing, so only someone with no destiny could do it, making it their destiny.

In other words: Yes, something might be written in stone - but stone can be shaped, whether by time or by force of will.

12:18 For Chesslestia.
[youtube=BLEGGm8MF14]

735878 Yeah, I can buy that line of explanation. The one major issue with it is that Twilight would have to be either unaware of how dangerous and powerful spoken spells are, or else hugely reckless because she cast that spell instantly upon seeing it, to find out what it did.

The idea of Twilight being unaware of at least the existence of an entire class of magic strains credulity. And Twilight being reckless with a very powerful spell of unknown effect is directly at odds with her characterization as a methodical planner who values preparation.

735862
That I do, that I do.

Yes only certain ponies can become Alicorns, but they are not Nietzchen Uberponies. If anything they would buck those ideas where it would hurt the most. They are also not all-knowing or all-powerful, they may have power but to use it would mean a lot more destruction than what the bad guy is causing. Plus they are still mortals... Um... I have put together a chart on Alicorn power tiers. There are four tiers, each one has been seen in canon.

Tier 3: Lowest level power, this is the Alicorn's birth form. For the most part it is not different from a normal pony except they may have something special in regards to their elemental alignment (which of the Four Element + Magic are the aligned to).

Tier 2: Base Alicorn, pretty much they now have horns and wings but that's about it. Cadence, S1 Luna, and Twilight are Tier 2 Alicorns.

Tier 1: Full Realized Alicorn. They are now fully attuned with their domain and could be considered demigods. They are characterized by their flowing manes and tails. Celestia and S2 Luna are all Tier 1.

Tier 0: Fully Synced. They have now gone beyond their mortal form and now living gods and the Avatar of their patron deity. Extremely powerful. Characterized by their manes and tails acting like smoke or fire, iris color bleeding into the whites, dagger shaped pupils, glowing coats, and speaking in the Royal We. Nightmare Moon is a Tier 0, though a false Tier 0.

And Alicorn can move up in the Tiers but can also move down. In the case of extreme injuries they can even descend to their birth form, this was the case with Celestia during the War of Eternal Night. Their magic will heal them but they cannot use it.
---

Ok I'm hearing all this talk about Celestia manipulating events so that Twilight can ascend. Guys look at it this way, she is a teacher, and a teacher always wants their student to better themselves, to be all they can be. Also while Celestia may have given her the book, Twilight still went forward and proved herself. It wasn't the spell or her teacher that caused her to ascend, it was all Twilight feeling the joy that she had shown they she can do something that not even Star Swirl could do. Think of "Celestia's Ballad"

" You've come such a long, long way
And I've watched you from that very first day
To see how you might grow
To see what you might do
To see what you've been through
And all the ways you've made me proud of you

It's time now for a new change to come
You've grown up and your new life has begun
To go where you will go
To see what you will see
To find what you will be
For it's time for you to fulfill your destiny"

It was all Twilight

736337

So in your head canon, Alicorns acquire immortality when they reach tier 1 or 0? Or are you just saying that Alicorns are never immortal, they just have longevity? Much like elves in LOTR, they can never really die of old age, but they can be killed in combat and die through injury ect ect...Because that would be a really interesting distention to draw, especially if war were to ever descend back onto Equestria.

736220
I'll admit that it's odd that Twilight wouldn't know about such spells, but I don't think it's unimaginable that powerful, soul-altering magic isn't taught in Magic Kindergarten. Twilight may be Celestia's personal prodigy, but she's still a student. In S3E1, she obviously didn't know about dark magic, either, until Celestia demonstrated it to her for (assumedly) the first time.

Of course, other problems then arise, such as; if dark magic and soul magic are protected, secret forms, why are time-travel spells under light guard in the royal archives? This could be explained away by the fact that, judging from the events of "It's About Time", Equestria operates on a predestination-paradox model of time travel, and thus, time travel is not a major risk - but it's still somewhat worrying.

736377

That idea makes me ask wither or not ponies have any sort of free will at all. Everything a pony chooses to do might already be pre-determined. There could be any number of reasons for this, most of which would stem into metaphysical or religious arguments but it's still a really interesting idea to think about. After all, we know that the ponies are just in a show and ((for the most part)) they believe their lives to be real and their choices to be made freely based on their consciousness. Much in the same way, we believe our lives to be actual and our choices to be be made with our free will but do we actually know that? What if we are just characters in some large novel being written by a higher being? Seems unlikely, doesn't mean its not the case though. I just slipped into a epistemology tangent there, sorry about that

736372
Perhaps when they reach Tier 0, but since that has never happened beyond a nasty case of possession it is hard to say. Comparing them to the Elves isn't too much a stretch.

I think the best way to put it can be taken by a line from the second chapter of "The Broken Mare": "My claim on immortality is a tenuous one at best. It is simply because I have not died yet.".

Equesrtia has been at relative peace for 200 years. and it takes a lot of punishment to even harm an Alicorn let alone damage one enough to cause them to descend. In the case of the War of Eternal Night, Celestia descended from 1 to 3 because she exhausted herself fight NMM, it was the Winter Solstice so she was at her weakest, and she fell head first into a iced over river before heading over a set of falls.

736406

That's certainly an interesting way to look at it. It's like saying,"Well, I figure out if I'm immortal or not if/when I die." That's a very pragmatic way of looking at it, and that certainly is a very I could picture Celestia holding. So the way you describe it, really the only way an Alicorn to die would be to damage it while it is in its level 3 stage enough to where a normal pony would die. Of course it would take alot to get a level one or two down to that level I'm guessing.

736435
Well she does other things to worry about, and at being over 1500 years old she is a bit old for an existential crisis.

Yes, but even then it may not be so easy. There is more to the quote that I gave you, the rest is this: "This body still has the instinct of self preservation. I must assume there is a reason for that. I must answer any attack with the full force I am capable of, in defense of my life". This is completely true for Celestia and Luna is they grew up during the Discordant Era. Cadence, in my headcanon, is also a member of the Guard and can defend herself. It would take a lot to knock down a 1, and when that happens you know the shit is about to hit the fan. And when they ascend to Tier 0? Epona help you.

736455

I replaced existential crisis with mid-life crisis. A mid-life crisis at 1500 years old, I wonder what that is like?

I have to say though. Sounds like you have a pretty well developed headcanon here. You seem to have developed quite a back history and culture. I'd like to know more if that is alright! Perhaps we can help critique each others ideas if you'd like.

736402
No problem, epistemology is fun!

736483

Oh I agree. Taking an upper level class about it this semester and I am loving every moment!

736470
She picks up a student...

I like to think so, I do consider myself a world builder, I just have to problem of writing it down. And if you want to know more... well you can PM me, or I do have a group started that is supposed to be were I'm keeping my notes: The Equestriani Concordiat.

Alrighty, while there's definitely some interesting ideas being thrown around here, this is a group dedicated to discussing non-pony things. This isn't really the place for it, seeing as how often ponies are bought up in the rest of the site (strange, that)

However, we don't want to delete this thread, because of aforementioned ideas.

Just try to keep the purpose of the group in mind next time, aye?

I think being an alicorn just means you get both wings and horn, and this usually happens to be in conjunction with becoming a princess, but it certainly doesn't entail the status of goddess like Luna and Celestia, or make you immortal. For instance, Cadence is clearly aging at a normal pony rate, and I'm placing her role as a princess at being the last heir to the throne of the Crystal Empire, seeing as how connected she is the the crystal ponies and their powers. Cadence is also clearly not seen as a goddess by the ponies of Equestria, as it seems she is barely known by her princess name, and the only mane six pony to know who she is is Twilight, and only from knowing her personally. I don't think any pony is completely immortal, but I think that Celestia was born with the sun and derives her life energies from it, so will live as long as it does. Same with Luna. I am writing a long shot fic about this, with the first chapter about Celestia's birth (and Discord's)