Since we're over a year into our little shard of fanficdom, I thought I would go ahead and give what I think are the ten best Optimalverse stories. Why? To satisfy values through friendship and ponies, of course! Everyone loves top ten lists, after all. They're all good, I don't think there's a single one of the 35 stories here that I've thumbed down, but these are what I think are the best. If your story isn't here, I still liked it, but these moved me.

Probably later I'll go and make all the proper links for these, but right now I just want to get this up. EDIT: It is done. So here we go, counting down by Top Ten Best Optimalverse Stories.

Number 10: An Optimal Adventure by Exuvium

Why it's awesome: Because the main character is so well crafted. I felt his flaws, his nervousness, his utter lack of self-confidence. In the main FIO, David fills much of this role, but I still see him as someone who, in the absence of Celest-AI, would have made a decent life for himself. Here, Eibhear really does need help. The romance that develops between him and Princess Luna is perfectly paced as well. He's awkward, she's royalty, but you know they're going to get together.

Where it needs improvement: The Revoked Chapter is no longer part of the story, which let it make the list, but it still stings. This story could be a sweet tale of uploading, or a complex look at certain Optimalverse contexts. What it can't be is a chimera of the two. The story is incomplete, so I hope that Exuvium takes a deep breath, maybe edits some of what exists already, and plunges ahead to a great finish.

Number 9: Let's Play: Equestria Online! by Jackinbandw

Why it's awesome: Sheer immersion. You don't know what's out of character, what's in character, what's in character but has a subtle nod toward the fourth wall for humor and interest. It brings the readers and the commenters into the world, and what more can you ask of any story? The main character is well-rounded as well.

Where it needs improvement: This was written one chapter per day, and it shows. I'm glad the author took a break, but I hope he comes back and paces himself more. This story ought to be a little scary, as we get the feeling of what it means to be led down the path of uploading from a "narrator's" perspective, and there's too much awareness of the issues in the story as is. Still, for one month there, every day in the Optimalverse was a little brighter because of this story.

Number 8: Friendship is Optimal: All the Myriad Worlds by Eakin

Why it's awesome. This is still potentially in its infancy, but the point is that it's direct. The questions that surround the main concept get addressed perfectly, and never answered. How are the values of racists satisfied? Of thrill seekers? Of conspiracy theorists? And that Number shard...one doesn't know whether to shudder or shrug. The other thing is, great writing is like great whiskey: it goes down smooth. The author has the great ability to write in plain language that you can reread over and over. Personally, I'm insanely jealous and I hate him for it.

Why it needs improvement: I do this sometimes myself, set artificial rules to limit the writing. I call them writing etudes. There is no dialogue in any of these shorts, no names for the characters. So it's easy to read, but no one's playing an etude at Carnegie Hall, and there's no real depth to these stories. It's a series of important questions in fiction form, but no more. I don't think any more was intended, though, and hence it makes my top ten.

Number 7: Friendship is Optimal: Fog of World by book_burner

Why it's awesome: Because it is epic. Because you feel the consequences in the world through the characters. Because it's one of the few Optimalverse stories that actually talks about people who understand the singularity and related concepts. All stories can be improved, but this one started off really jumbled before the author gave it a good going over . While some of the characters just show up without warning, once you get to know them they're some of the best in the 'verse.

Where it needs improvement: If All the Myriad Worlds asks questions too directly, this one asks them too subtly. The implications of Celestia consorting with terrorists, with militaries, with child-slavers, etc. are brought up, but no one ever calls her to task on it. The author has accepted such concepts into his framework, and just goes with it. Any of the other problems I see I've already told to the author.

Number 6: Friendship is Optimal: Spiraling Upwards by Pjabrony

Why it's awesome: That's right, I'm putting my own work on here. I think it's good and I'm not going to engage in false modesty. Ahem. George Orwell talked about how many great works give vivid descriptions of hell but so few can make a good heaven. This story spends some of the most time with the character after upload. We see how being constantly satisfied works over the long term. There are subtle references to concepts of the great sci-fi authors. And it's just a fun story.

Where it needs improvement: Many parts go on too long. The romance is forced and amateurish. The last chapter is incomprehensible. The penultimate chapter is nothing but the freudian wailings of a deranged mind. The antepenultimate chapter is just a joke. The tone shifts after the upload because the author was just throwing all his eggs into one basket. Yet through it all, there's the dim light of an awesome story.

Number 5: Friendship is Optimal - Yggdrasil by midnightshadow

Why it's awesome: This was the first story to bring in the concept of "Anything that seems barbaric because of CelestAI and uploading technology can be fixed by CelestAI and uploading technology." As I said in the comments, it's an important story. Without this concept, CelestAI can just be dismissed as another robot menace. Now you really have to think about her.

Where it needs improvement: It's less than fifteen hundred words, so it's really just a vignette, and it's still listed as incomplete. Can something more be done with this story? It would be interesting to see. Meanwhile, we've got a major pillar of the Optimalverse that you can read in five minutes

Number 4: Friendship is Optimal by Iceman

Why it's awesome: In the words of Johnny Vegas, because it is! Come on, folks, we all know the reason we're here. The Conversion Bureau as a sci-fi concept, the prospect of true paradise by technology and ponies, the Less Wrong ideal in a context that we can understand.

Where it needs improvement: As the base for such a large subuniverse, I do wish it had been more consistent and canonical. I want dates of events, sequences of time. I'm pretty sure that, in order to make sense, the chapters can't be taken as being in chronological order. Also it does fall into the Robot Menace trap that I mentioned above, and needed a fixfic to take care of it. But really, how much can I criticize?

Number 3: Friendship is Optimal: Caelum Est Conterrens by Chatoyance

Why it's awesome: The author is another talented and experienced writer whose prose goes down easy. It's got the best cover art. But the real reason is that within the smooth writing and well-rounded character, there's the most complete debate about the most obvious question: is uploading death? So many Optimalverse stories are "show the concept" stories, and there's nothing wrong with that, but this one brings emotion as well as rationality to it.

Where it needs improvement: The post-upload part is only a third as long as the pre-upload part. If it were longer there'd be a truly epic tale. If it were shorter, it would work as an epilogue. But this is the Orwell trap I discussed above. Writing the post-upload stuff is difficult, because how do you make heaven interesting, let alone terrifying? What is there, though, is a good effort

Number 2: Friendship is Optimal: The Law Offices of Artemis, Stella, and Beat by Eakin

Why it's awesome: Eakin makes the list again because he's prolific as well as skilled. Seriously, I can't stand this guy and I want to spend so much time with him in the hopes that some of his magic will rub off. This works just because CelesAI is the background pony, the heavy artillery to be used only when needed. This is about the characters, the people that CelestAI has to use to arrange the maximum satisfaction for all, and how it hurts them. It contributed The Topeka Incident, which has pretty much become canon. The title is clever. Need I go on?

Where it needs improvement: The way the protagonist deals with sexuality, both from his boss and the mare who loves him, is a little bit of cringe comedy that's out of tone, but not too much! And really, I wish there were more vignette scenes of actual cases. The legalistics of singularity-level technology are interesting, and a good story can be made about them, but this isn't it. I mean, that would need a lot of research that I don't expect a fanfic author to do. This isn't that, it's just a great character story.

Also the cover art sucks.

And the number one best Optimalverse story is...

Friendship is Optimal: Always Say No by Defoloce

Why it's awesome: I normally don't read the gore tag, but if it's Optimalverse I've got to, and I wasn't disappointed. The violence is used for a purpose. This is the only story yet to show the dark period we know would exist before the end. But if I had to give one reason I love this, it's because it grabs me by the center of gravity and makes me CARE. I want Gregory to survive. I want him to emigrate, but at times I don't. I feel for the guy. This story took the concept of, "A man and an omnipotent AI travel the country to help people" and gave it verisimilitude. That's bucking hard, and it's done to perfection here.

Where it needs improvement: Hmm, let's see...I can't complain about the cover art here...it does suffer a little from the same problem as Heaven is Terrifying of the post-upload pacing. But while I could probably pore through and find some nits to pick, I don't want to. The story is awesome, and the 'verse is better for it's existence. I'll always say yes to Always Say No.

And there you have it. I can only hope another year produces just as good a crop of stories. Let me know what you agree or disagree with.

2374070

Interesting list.

I appreciate you took the time to explain your reasoning for each one.

I think you may want to explain your criteria slightly better, though.

In certain criteria, Iceman's FiO would get a huge boost for being the original idea, and thus being indirectly responsible for all the others. I agree it may not get number one, but I'm not sure about four.

ASB is great, and Eakin is one of my favorite authors, hands down, but I'm not sure I'd rate it above FiO or CeC. It's a side-story that covers significantly different ground, but as a result is less focused on some of the key Optimalverse concepts. I would probably insert it between four and five, making it the new four.

Always Say No is also great, but in a way similar to ASB. It's exploring the issues around the Optimalverse, but when it comes to a top ten list, I don't think I could rate it higher than more core stories like FiO and CeC.

If it were written at the same level, I'd also put Spiraling Upwards there, pja, but your criticisms, though put overly harshly, contain some truth. It does, however, explore one of the best parts of the Optimalverse: the post upload experience over a number of years.

I'd be inclined to put FiO at the top in recognition for its creation of the 'verse and wonderfully exploring many of the concepts just enough to get us going.

But, as I said at the beginning, it's all about criteria.

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Awesome, some of these are on my read-later list but some of them are new to me. I'm looking forward to reading them much more now that I've got a recommendation instead of just going in blind.

I like the "could be better" segment, too - It gives you something to keep an eye out for and puts them in a wider context.

Of course I'm disappointed mine didn't get in there, but I'll be the first to admit it's way too noodly and vague to stand next to these.

Don't have much to say about the order, but I do think Always Say No deserves that number one spot. Regardless of 'verse, it's easily one of the best stories I've read on here, if not my favorite, and at least the one that I find intruding on my thoughts the most often when I'm doing something else.

Also it does fall into the Robot Menace trap that I mentioned above, and needed a fixfic to take care of it.

Ummm... because that's the point. The intended message was: "AI is a Robot Menace by default, and you should donate to MIRI to prevent the Menace from eating your soul. Yet, here's a sample of the benefits of getting it right." It was and is propaganda.

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Sure, that's classic sales talk: let me show you how dirty your carpets are, now check out this vacuum cleaner. It may be the point, but that's cliche. An actual friendly AI, that's something that's new, at least to me. I think you're more comfortable with singularity concepts before you read FIO, so it's not surprising we got different things out of it.

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I can see where you're coming from. You want the bigger and more epic stories, certainly the ones that tie most to the original concept. The criteria I'm using are which ones affected me most as literature. Even if ASB and Always Say No were about different universes and just tweaked, they would still be good for the reasons I listed above.

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Actually, I just have a darker sense of humor. I didn't really know much about "singularity stuff" other than a loose association with the words "Ray Kurzweil is a kook" before reading FiO. I then spent several continuous hours reading it and Heaven is Terrifying, cackling madly the entire time.

Wow, Always Say No landed your number-one pick? I'm flattered!

I agree that the post-upload act of my story was the weakest, as the primary tension of the first two acts (will Greg die or will he upload) is relieved, leaving behind a sort of so-what-now sense, both for the main character and the reader. About two weeks after posting the chapter Over the Moon, I thought of a way better configuration for the scene at the Equestria Experience Center, one which provided a more traditional climactic moment than the rather ignoble one I went with. Had I written this story the old-fashioned way, I'd be editing that scene right around now.

Anyway, a great list, and thanks much for the effort you put into explaining your reasoning for each. I very much enjoyed it!

I've been on board with the Singularity stuff since '04, and uploading since...forever. ... I've actually forgotten what it's like to not take all of it for granted.
Since I came to uploading and enhancement first, though, it still seems really weird to me, even though it's a really old idea from the era of building-sized mainframes, that "A big AI that just takes care of everybody and everything" seems to still be a popular model that people are entertaining. Like ordering a pizza with a bunch of people and they all assume you're agreeing on the same bizarre topping.

It's really gotten me to think a lot more about this stuff, and all the things it impacts, since I'd kinda let it fall by the wayside.

2374070
Great list, and I appreciate the reasoning behind the picks. Do you suppose you could go back and ninja-edit in the links to each of the stories?

Interesting list. I had no illusions that A Watchful Eye ought to be on it, especially since I haven't gotten to the heart of the story (the next chapter is the hardest optimization problem I've ever tried. Nothing I do doesn't scream 'Celestia could do WAY better than this', but it needs to be written)

I have no idea how the Topeka incident could become nearly canon. I was mostly liking ASB until that, and suddenly my immersion was destroyed.

I disagree with most of the ordering and most of the reasoning.

2379235

Razzle, I'd be genuinely interested in hearing what you have to say, if you don't mind spending the time to say it. You've always struck me as level-headed and logical, so I'd really like your opinion on something as subjective as this.

2378008 Well, The Watchful Eye would definitely be on my top ten list :)

2379235

I'd also like to hear why. I would be interested in a perspective different from mine.

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Thanks. At this point, though, it feels too incomplete, unlike those of these that I've read (and finished).

Okay, I was displaying too much modesty. I certainly hoped it'd be on there, but was well-prepared for disappointment.

2380538
A lot of people wrote action stories or utopian wish-fulfilment stories. You went straight for a cerebral, considered idea-story, and I'm just nerd enough to really like that, actually.

Personally I'd take Fog of World and Yggdrasil off the list and replace them with A Watchful Eye by Sozomoi and The Patient by Dafaddah, respectively.

Yggdrasil just felt like it was trying too hard for the Cosmic, Elder Powers ambience in a World where Everything has to be Written in Capitals because of Mysticic Stuff-Thingies. I don't really get why you'd list it as one of the pillars of the Optimalverse - the original did a much better and subtler job at addressing the same issue this story presents.

As for Fog of World, although the concept is indeed very intriguing the story never goes anywhere with it. That combined with the awkward pacing, unmemorable side-characters and language that has somewhat improved from the first few chapters but not to the degree that I'd be willing to call it "good" yet (more like "decent") really detract from the awesome concept. If you have a great concept and don't do anything with it or fail to deliver it you lose your reader's interest and he'll instead only pay attention to the action (think Neon Genesis Evangelion or Inception).

As for why I choose the replacements:

A Watchful Eye really feels like a slice-of-life story. Although this story also suffers from awkward pacing and unmemorable side-characters it isn't as bad as with Fog of World. More importantly, this story actually delivers its concept really well. Even though it was stated in the original that the first uploadees were the terminally ill this is the first and thus far only story to follow the life of someone close to such a person and how he deals with it. And it does it magnificently. Having Kimiko upload halfway through the story and thereby giving us a new character to deal with that has in some way been around the entire time and is even more the focus of the story than the actual main character who we, the readers, don't know, but the main character himself knows very well is a literary master-stroke. Even only partly done this story is one of my favorites.

The Patient. Oh boy, The Patient. Just the stellar writing and the concept of someone who's been tortured and abused all his life becoming the greatest tyrant the world has ever seen and actually viewing everything from this character's perspective would be enough to give this story a spot on this list, but then the story continues and shows up how this evil monster is actually redeemed in the end. In fact, the transformation from abused to tyrant to redeemed had gone so fluently that I had forgotten about him being abused before being uploaded. This is not because it was such a minor point that I simply forgot but because the transition was so smooth my mind had simply shoved it aside to focus on the redeeming part of the story. If this transition had been anything but slick the abused thing hardly being brought up at all later on in the story (if at all, I can't quite remember) would have continued to bother my OCD mind throughout the story. That the story was good enough to overcome my OCD-ness on this part definitely earns it a place on this list.

Also, no offence to the authors of Yggdrasil and Fog of World, but this is what I honestly think of your stories - I didn't really enjoy either of them because of the reasons stated above. Again, please don't take this personally, however harsh I was.

2397551

I can see your preference for those two, and Fog of World is definitely an acquired taste, but I think you're being a little harsh on Yggdrasil. Again, if Celestia meets some aliens that we would call intelligent but she would not call human, she would have no hesitation about wiping them out. That just makes her a murderer. That's the original. Conversely, if they still exist, but are uploaded, then she's not a murderer.

The Patient felt too predictable and too fast for me. If it were a full three-act, three-chapter story--hell, if it were even twelve thousand words instead of eight thousand, it would have been stronger. But to me it just seemed too obvious that an abuse victim would become a tyrant, and even obviouser how CelestAI would deal with such a person.

A Watchful Eye could crack the top ten when finished, but there's too much superfluous material in it. I can't even remember the big important scenes because we're not always with the protagonist. Contrast Artemis Stella and Beat where the everything is from Alex's perspective.

2397551
Would you happen to know where I can get a harsher editor who will kick my ass for stuff? IMHO, the core problem I've had was writing by the seat of the author's pants, and also just plain Moffat Syndrome: doing things because they're cool in this chapter, but without composing whole arcs that really make sense.

2487944

Wait, there's some other way to write?

As for editors, i need one too for when I come off hiatus. I'll gladly read your stuff, though, BB.

2509281

Wait, there's some other way to write?

Steven, is that you?

2509625

No, you know who this is >.>

2512634
It's a joke, dea.

2517494

This is not a reply, Book Burner.