A thought on Pony Afterlife · 2:05am Nov 19th, 2019
This was a discussion on my discord located HERE! (Click the Word!)
Chapter 44 is out by the way check it out here: https://www.fimfiction.net/story/393681/44/fallout-equestria-dead-tree/chapter-44-fracturing
Hagrid (DTS)Today at 8:41 PM
I mean, your version is most likely similar to mine.
cracks knuckles, sips booze. While, since it was never addressed, I've tried to see what I could find for any kind of cultural significance. Since most of the show has it's roots deeeeeeply in Hellenistic Greek myth, but there are traces of Aztec and assorted Pagan cultures/Nature-based cultures (I can't recall the term for Egypt, animism comes to mind but is probably off the mark), I've come to the realization that it would be a sort of "Grecian with Pagan flair." Considering that Discord exists, and is either the god of chaos, or at least a powerful aspect or avatar of chaos, it stands to reason that other similar forces exist. I want to point to Celestia and Luna, but considering their powers are dwarfed by his... well that's for a different attempt.
Anyway, after death, its a march to find your way to the other-side. There are many parts to this walk, some of it is hot, some of it is cold, some of it is treacherous or lonely, and some of it is relatively calm. Some of it still defies explanation. However, at the end of this walk there is a scale. It weighs both the karmic balance of the individual as well as measuring their projected destiny against what they actually managed to do in life. While these last two often match, discrepancies do occur. Pass or fail, this trial dictates where one ends up. A soul with enough of a karmic balance to outweigh the counterbalance will find itself in verdant pastures or someplace of bounty that would be naturally inclined (A sea-pone is gonna hate living in the desert). This place, this land, is a bounty of plenty and joy for those there. While this can get stale and dull, this will be revisited later. Those who cannot outweigh the counterbalance, for one reason or another, find themselves in a void of darkness, lancing wind, and cold. From here, the only escape is into the prison-realm known as Tartarus. In this position, one must weigh the known of Tartarus vs the unknown of the dark.
Lastly, either those souls who linger on the mortal plane, who find themselves lost or fallen off the edge of the bridge, or those who tire of their afterlives, may get a ... second chance of sorts. While it takes a great deal of time, a soul may become a spirit. Usually, they end up as a reflection of what they embodied most in life, but curve-balls can occur.
Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.
MY VERSION of the Afterlife:
Fiaura / Wandering SunriseToday at 8:59 PM
It's quite simple. Souls sit on a bridge, waiting to cross. They must decide if and when they cross; when they finally are at peace to do so.
Once they begin their walk; there is no delay anymore. All of their memories slowly cascade across their eyes. When they arrive on the other side, the pony version of Hades stands there. He will either smile and point to the right or scowl and point to the left. Occasionally; he frowns and points down.
This is based upon the karma of their soul and IF they are suppose to be there yet or not.
Those to the right are sent to a place of peace, rest, and a chance to enjoy their own version of paradise.
Those to the left are given an appropriate punishment for their actions in life.
Both directions have a chance to earn the right to be reborn and sent back into the cycle of life to try again.
The right is easier to do this than the left.
Those sent straight down, were NOT suppose to be here yet and are sent back immediately to try again.
Death accepts all; but not before their appointment is due.
There is no bargaining, no negotiating for others on your behalf, your fate is decided the moment the bullet pierced your heart.
Those on the road to redemption are the only ones who may beg for another chance and for that, you are pointed down and given a trial. Should you fail the trial; you are sent to the left. Should you pass back intot he cycle of life.
You may wait as long as you like. The journey across the bridge takes only a moment to the living world but to you it can take an eon if you so wish. You may wait and experience the bridge with friends, family, and whoever you wish.
You all simply sit in a station of sorts; one of your own choosing in most cases (A Train Station, A bar, a hotel, whatever is your particular flavor) knowing when you leave this place; you cannot return.
To me, Buddy is sitting there. ***** has joined him. A tether exists holding their souls back to the boxes but they sit there; waiting for the tether to break so they can walk the bridge. ***** talks to Buddy, Buddy Talks back. They can view the world of the living but are powerless to do anything within it.
Other souls sit gathered around watching what was important to them. Others still pass on, walking through the door with no return. Knowing it is a one way trip. Buddy and ***** make a pact: As it was in Life, so shall it be in death. Not until all their friends join them and the tethers that bind them are all gone; do they walk through the door. They want to experience the end of things together and stand before the scales as they did in life; with friends who will hold them and wait the judgement passed by the one Pony: Hades.
How do you feel about all this?
I believe that of all the concepts I have heard of or read about, I like this idea the best. This is the way it should be, in my opinion.
5157582
Wow really?
I watched this conversation unfold in the server, and I think the two are quite similar, both are both quite valid overall!
Truly! I'm sure it wouldn't work out well for me personally but for most people, they would go to the the right and some would chose to come back and do more good. The bad ones won't come back at all. Those who are trying to improve will at least have the chance to show they are willing (hopefully being willing gives them a better chance at the trial!)
And I would rather wait on my friends and go together, no matter how it turns out. At least we'll be together.
Looks Good to me
Imagine in the afterlife you go through your own heaven and hell but I like this. If I can't go left then the challenge is what I have to do. If down... what happened?
Honestly, I find these thoughts and discussions fascinating. I ended up fusing a bit of Shinto and Buddhism into Speak's take on the afterlife, but I love how both of you had these very well thought out thoughts on the eschatology of ponies, and yet have remarkably different conclusions about it. It's really a neat idea, and your thoughts on this definitely mirrored what we see from the aspects of greek mythos that are in the show.
So, if you’d asked me 9 years ago if I thought I’d be writing up things about pony eschatology, I’d probably tell you to get out of my house. As it stands, I realise I’ve kind of, in small ways, covered bits and pieces of my own version of the process of life and death and the transfer of the soul in both Speak and We Were Bunnies. Oddly enough it doesn’t quite coincide with my own spiritual beliefs, which tend toward “The fuck?” on a good day, but there’s something to be said about thinking about how we handle life and death. It’s either interesting or uncomfortable, and there’s usually not much in between.
I end up pulling from a lot of sources for my thoughts on the soul. I am not sure that heaven exists, but I do believe that there are souls. By extension, ponies would have those same souls. I also have a very firm belief in the idea of reincarnation. I like to think that there’s something more that is out there for us after we pass on. Maybe we’re reborn as another human, or maybe not. If you believe in the concept of Saṃsāra, there’s the possibility of being reborn as animals, or… sometimes other things, depending upon our own karmic debt.
Personally, in my next life? I’d like to be a bird.
This… fuses oddly with some of the influences I’ve had in my studies of Shinto. Shinto itself doesn’t lend itself well to eschatological discussions simply because it tends to focus on matters in this world, not the next. But the attractive thing to me about Shinto is the belief in the hidden world where the Kami, and the various ‘other worlds’ where a soul may end up.
I touched on the idea of this ‘other world’ in chapter 19 of Speak, when Threnody encounters Guardian. They discuss the world that was hidden, and Puddle speaks of a place of endless golden grass where lights constantly dance from the ground up to the sky. To me, this would be the other world of the Fields of Forever, and this is the place where souls who are truly at rest end up. It is a place where no shadows fall, and souls who are truly ready to become one with Harmony go there as a final resting place. It is not Heaven, as Heaven to me always felt like it would be sterile and boring, but rather a place that pony souls go to be released from the cycle of rebirth, and to allow themselves to join in the great Harmony that fuels magic in Equestria. Those that join are never truly forgotten, but live on in the light of the magic of friendship.
If this sounds a hell of a lot like a very weird take on Nirvana, you’d be dead on. To me, ponies may end up as other creatures in their cycle of reincarnation, and sometimes may be more scary things that haunt the dark reaches of equestria. Windegos, while drawn from First Nations lore, make more sense if they are seen as parallels to Asuras, or the angry gods, in Buddhist tradition. I have also always wondered if Changelings weren’t a good analogue to the Hungry Ghosts that inhabit the Preta realm in Buddhist realms of rebirth.
Tartarus, to me, also plays an interesting role in the world because it is one of the few places where ponies could burn off karma for their evil deeds. To ponies, hell isn’t a spiritual place of fire and gnashing of teeth, but a very real place. Tartarus exists in Equestria, and it exists for the living, not the dead. If anything, the closest thing that Equestria has to Buddhist hell, Naraka, would be being imprisoned in stone for a millenia, or spending a millenia banished to the moon. To ponies and other races in Equestria, the worst form of punishment doesn’t come from the awful things that happen in Naraka, but from isolation.
I also like to think, however, that there is a bit of choice involved for ponies. They can stay in the Fields of Forever for as long as they wish, and they can choose to return to the mortal realm. Of course, returning to the mortal realm places oneself in the cycle of birth, death, and reincarnation, but for some, this is what they truly want. To be able to do their best to continue helping ponies, through to the end of time. Others are content to let go of their individuality, and rejoin the fullness of Harmony, helping keep the fires of friendship going for eternity.
... Goddamnit, Fiaura, 3am is way too early to be thinking about this shit.Can you imagine the look of pure frustration on Hades face while he dribbled Blackjack like a basketball back down off the bridge every time she dies?
In the Fallout universe, I imagine the 'bad place' gets a lot more traffic than it did before the war. If going left sends them to some type of punishment, depending on how long that punishment takes before a soul is given a chance at redemption, how long until Equestria comes back from the dark times? Is LittlePip a punished soul, reborn to redemption?
Could the Ministry Mares be reborn, or did they get an express ticket to the Elysium Fields for being Element Bearers? So many questions to answer.
5157698
I am unsure if they could or could not.
Blackjack sure but can you imagine the other 27 times Sunrise has been up and he's just like: "Oh For Fucks sake! You'd think you take a hint!"
5157644
It's 3am welcome to the Fiaura Brain Zone MOTHERFUCKER! (Rice Fields joke!)
Also being a Shinto Priestess perhaps we should talk on that sometime?
I'm starting to re-read parts of Speak this week to do the review thing. Also to catch up to the reading group since they are reading it because I recommended it.
But I like this idea, different yes, worthy, non-theless.
5157624
And to go right, you only agree to do so if those you care join you.
The Magic of Friendship extends beyond life.
5157724
If I go right I'll do it for the ones I care about yes. Friendship overcomes many challenges
5157723
I WOULD LOVE TO TALK ABOUT THAT! I have been meaning to make it up to the Tsubaki Grand Shrine that's up near Seattle, but I've not been able to find the time, and I kinda want to go on a weekday when it's likely slower.
5157898
I could take an extra day at Everfree this year and we go together?
5157698
Now the question of the Ministry Mares is really an interesting one. Particularly with Rarity and her having divided up her soul so much into the statuettes. I will have to think about that myself now. The other question is because of their actions during their time as Ministry Mares, does that negate what they did as the Bearers of the Elements of Harmony?
5161021
I didn't even consider the soul jar aspect. That throws a wrench in the gears. I wonder if splitting your soul would forever condemn you to purgatory unless you could find a way to reunite the pieces. For ponies that had their entire soul used to form a soul jar, are they trapped until the item is broken?
Maybe it works like soul gems in the Elder Scrolls universe. The magical essence is trapped\stored inside the gem but the actual 'consciousness' goes on to whatever God has the tightest claim, or back into the Dream Sleeve to be reborn.
That wouldn't really work though, because then we wouldn't have Rampage.
I've thought about the Element Bearer part some. I imagine there's some type of karmic balance that would need to be met, where your good outweighs the bad. Since the FoE timeline diverges after season one, there's not a whole lot of good they did as the Bearers. I don't think the fact they were the Element Bearers would factor in that much. They'd be treated just like any other pony, weighing good against bad and going from there. Applejack would most likely pass, while Pinkie would get a do-over. What happens to Fluttershy though? If Karma hangs the megaspells on her, that's a lot to make up for.
5161039
I agree, especially with Fluttershy, of course part of her redemption may have taken ace.by having spen that time as a willow and forced to see what her actions had wrought no matter how good her intentions.
5161039
I have a question for you two:
How do the Recombulators operate within this? The Boxes that regenerated Hallow and Agent 88 so far in the story?
5161065
Sorry to say, I have no idea what that is. I'm assuming it's from Dead Tree, which I haven't read enough of yet to have seen. I'll be happy to share my thoughts when I get there though.
5161142
*waits for you to get to Stable Phi!*