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  • offline last seen March 12th

Awesomo3000


Film buff. Cartoon lover. Superhero enthusiast. MLP fan. Transformers devotee. Impressionist. Actor. Singer. Deadpan snarker. S'all good.

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Oct
13th
2019

MLP villain ranking: Grogar (OBSOLETE) · 10:54am Oct 13th, 2019

0/10 - AWFUL (unsalvageable, never should have been made, wouldn't recommend to anyone)
1/10 - HORRIBLE/BORING (tedious, hurts to watch, a bore, no reason to watch him/her, whatever positive things about him/her are tiny and not enough)
2/10 - VERY BAD (slightly less terrible, maybe there were one or two things you liked kept him/her from being a 1 but still very painful)
3/10 - BAD (the kind of bad where you're checking your watch over and over to see how much time is left before he/she gets off the screen)
4/10 - MEDIOCRE (not awful but not really that good either)
5/10 - EH (average, didn't love or hate him/her)
6/10 - DECENT (the first positive rating on this list, fine overall, glad you saw him/her once but wouldn't watch him/her again)
7/10 - GOOD (enjoyable enough that you'd maybe watch him/her again in future, had some noteworthy flaws but is overall a worthwhile villain)
8/10 - GREAT (a solid, enjoyable villain, very entertaining)
9/10 - EXCELLENT (very engaging, awesome, you definitely recommend to anyone)
10/10 - MASTERPIECE (extremely engaging, an absolute must-see)

Grogar

Another classic G1 villain back with a vengeance.

The First Emperor of Equestria, the Father of Monsters, the oldest threat to ponykind, and so legendary and fearsome that even Tirek and Chrysalis were afraid of him, Grogar is without a doubt the ultimate Big Bad of the whole show. And a pretty cool one at that.

It’s refreshing that unlike the other villains, he knows not to underestimate the Mane Six and has some idea of what makes them formidable (teamwork/strength in numbers). He doesn’t just dismiss them as being lucky or cheating. He saw a golden opportunity with the other villains who were at their lowest points and took it. While his idea of forcing them to team up with him through fear rather than trust was flawed, I appreciate that he was willing to learn from his enemies and adopt their tactics to use to his advantage. Plus the other villains didn’t really trust anyone besides themselves so I guess they needed to be scared into obedience in order to be reasonably loyal.

However I still think Adagio tops him in terms of planning. Grogar and Adagio are hardly the first villains who are able to plan well, but Adagio’s better at adapting to changing circumstances and is uniquely gifted at planning quickly. So if he’d brought back the Dazzlings too, Adagio most definitely would’ve been manipulative and cunning enough to eclipse him in power/influence. But still, credit where credit’s due, Grogar is a smart and patient strategist.

But it isn’t just his cunning and patience that makes him so scary. Even without his Bell, Grogar is insanely powerful. He freed Tirek and Cozy Glow from Tartarus with ease, teleported Sombra inside the Crystal Empire and boosted Tirek to his second form with only a tiny orb of magic (a form he needed to reach by draining multiple unicorns). And if that storybook from A Flurry of Emotions is anything to go by, fear gives him power. Not to mention creating terrible monsters during his reign certainly earned him his title as “the Father of Monsters”. All of this, along with the fact that Gusty the Great stealing his Bell only weakened him rather than defeated him completely, makes you wonder just how much damage he’ll be able to do at full power.

Plus his no-nonsense “I’m sick of your shit” attitude when dealing with the other villains’ bickering makes him pretty fun.

At first I was confused as to why Sombra wasn’t revived again, seeing how Grogar told him “when you fail, you will submit to me”. But I remembered the deal was that Sombra can try to reclaim the Crystal Empire, yet he went rogue and tried to conquer Equestria by himself too. So Grogar used Sombra’s arrogance as an example for why teamwork was essential to his plans. And even if Sombra succeeded, Grogar probably would’ve taken Equestria from him anyway without the Mane Six, Princesses or Elements in the way.

Plus he has the element of surprise seeing how nobody knows he’s coming and probably aren’t even aware he’s real, considering Cozy Glow hadn’t heard of him and Tirek thought he was a legend. Not to mention he can see everything outside his lair through his crystal ball, instilling a sense of paranoia in the audience and making you question if he’s been watching the Mane Six throughout the show this entire time.

Really, my only issues with him are pretty minor. Like, he spends more time planning than doing. And I found it strange that he apparently didn’t watch Tirek, Chrysalis and Cozy Glow’s betrayal through his crystal ball. Or maybe he did and he’s just messing with them, waiting for them to activate his Bell for him so he can take it back and use it to punish them in the finale. So all his planning may lead to a satisfying payoff, we’ll just have to wait and…

(ONE FINALE LATER)

...

You’re kidding. You’re kidding, right?

Grogar was really Discord in disguise the whole time? Which means the real Grogar most likely died a long time ago?

So all of this build-up was for nothing and was just the writers’ awful attempt at trying to seem epic by “subverting expectations” with a stupid twist that had no reason to exist?

And Discord deliberately brought back Sombra, Tirek, Cozy Glow and Chrysalis to try and boost Twilight’s confidence? And in doing so, practically gave them a world-destroying relic and put all of Equestria in danger?

So the writers pissed all over Discord’s character development just so they could write a terrible twist that literally means everything bad that happened in the finale and throughout the whole season, from Tirek and Cozy Glow being freed from Tartarus to the villains teaming up to Sombra destroying the Tree of Harmony and the Elements to the villains turning ponies against each other and bringing back the Windigos to them claiming Grogar’s bell and deciding to use it to destroy Equestria, was all Discord’s fault?

I’m done. I’m just done.

DONE


17TH AUGUST 2020 EDIT:

Jesus, this villain ranking aged extremely poorly. My thoughts on The Ending of The End as well as the Grogar twist are really dated here (while it has some issues, I do consider it a very good finale looking back at it), so click here to see my updated thoughts.


LINKS TO OTHER VILLAIN RANKINGS

Nightmare Moon
Discord
Queen Chrysalis
King Sombra
Sunset Shimmer
Lord Tirek
Adagio Dazzle
Starlight Glimmer
Midnight Sparkle
Gloriosa Daisy
Juniper Montage
Stygian/The Pony of Shadows
The Storm King
Wallflower Blush
Vignette Valencia
Chancellor Neighsay
Cozy Glow
PostCrush
Initial thoughts on Grogar (you're already here, you whack job)

Comments ( 24 )

Wow. If that’s the case I’m glad I stoped the show after season 6

This was the biggest slap in the face since The Cutie Re-Mark Part 2! :twilightangry2:

As stupid as it is, it kind of is in character for Discord to do this to boost Twilight's confidence. He has and always will have a weird way of being supportive. I would have preferred Grogar being the final villain, but honestly, if that happened, I'm pretty sure the trio would've been somehow redeemed, and I would rather what we got to another instance of redemption. Sure, this redemption wouldn't have been completely shoehorned, as there were moments of build up in frenemies, but that wasn't enough. Just cause I'm curious, what rating do you think you would've give Grogar if he wasn't Discord?

P.S. To Discord's credit, it worked out in the end. She was already prepared, but this definitely didn't lower Twilight's confidence.

5137675
Well I was a season slower than you with stopping at season 7 the reason being the lack of willpower to continue watching, but the final episode has torpedoed (ended) ANY chance of me watching MLP ever again for the sad disappointment they did in the final episode.

Also I hate the word "subvert expectations" ever since Disney used it in Star Wars the Last Jedi to kill Smoke and ruined character development.

5138347
Um...one episode is one episode, and one written by just two (technically three) writers.

5138352
Still even if the episode was good I still would have been extremely unlikely for me to continue watching since the willpower evaporated in 2017 with a few attempts to get back to watching it over the years with a big success in watching 2 episodes in early 2019 but after that the motivation disappeared

Also the mentioning of subvert expectations kinda thicked me off to go on a 'I'll never watch this again' rant since I hate the word unless I see a movie or t.v. show use in a satisfying way to wash my hate of the term.

5138400
Did you watch Avatar The Last Airbender? I think that show subverted expectations well.

5138254

He has and always will have a weird way of being supportive.

Yes, but that was simply "I'm hurt, nah, just kidding" in the premiere. Discord's neutral status worked after Twilight's Kingdom when the bad things he did were simply annoyances to individual characters, not dooming all of Equestria because "well I had good intentions".

I would have preferred Grogar being the final villain, but honestly, if that happened, I'm pretty sure the trio would've been somehow redeemed

Or the writers could've simply had Grogar be the villain and given him and the Legion of Doom the same punishment.

Sure, this redemption wouldn't have been completely shoehorned

Yes, it would, because you'd still be stapling a redemption onto three villains that were never designed with redemption in mind and have already crossed the Moral Event Horizon at this point in the show.

Just cause I'm curious, what rating do you think you would've give Grogar if he wasn't Discord?

I don't know what the rating would be, seeing how we didn't get to see his payoff because it wasn't really him.

To Discord's credit, it worked out in the end.

Oh, for Christ's sake, don't go the Starlight Glimmer route of excusing someone committing horrible actions/forming an awful plan because "well at least it worked out in the end, right?".

5138498
Obviously, Discord shouldn't have done what he did, and he should've had some sort of punishment. I'm just saying it's not completely out of character.

If all 4 of them worked together, I really don't think the Mane 6 could've pulled off a victory. It was hard enough with Sombra, let alone with the three, and even more so with Grogar added to the mix.

When I say shoehorned, I mean it wouldn't have been completely sudden.

I meant considering how he was handled so far.

Yeah, you're right.

5138507
If it turns him into an idiot who doesn't even consider the ramifications and that this is a huge dick move, then yes, it is.

Oh, right, like they couldn't have had the Endgame moment where literally everypony they've ever met/helped shows up to assist and done the whole "rainbow lasers" thing they always do.

Again, yes, it would because they'd still be stapling a redemption onto three villains who were never designed with redemption in mind and have done unforgivable things.

Again, I'd need to see the payoff to give him a proper rating.

5138934
Honestly, Discord rarely thinks things through. Like when he trusted Tirek even though that was the stupidest thing he could've done. And he did a similar thing in the premier. He let Sombra enslave all of Equestria so the mane six could do it themselves. The only real difference between that and the finale is that the stakes are higher in the finale. Obviously, there's the fact that he was going to lead them, but either way, he let a huge threat to Equestria attack without trying to stop them unless things got too dire.

They wouldn't have gotten to that point. The 4 would strike, overwhelm them all immediately, and since Grogar is smart, he would take away everyone's magic or kill them. And he would make sure Tirek isn't provoked, so no one leaves their cages. And since Tirek also agreed, there's no reason for Grogar to not have gone hunting for Twilight, and he'd dispatch of her quickly.

When I say completely sudden, I mean without any prior buildup. It doesn't mean it would be a good redemption.

Fair enough.

5139109
That was five seasons ago though; he should've known better than to pull this stupid stunt again. Like, he didn't even suspect Tirek might betray him again, even though he betrayed Discord last time they worked together?

Ideally this twist would never have made it past the first draft. It should just been Grogar bringing the villains together then maybe Discord felt Tirek stealing magic at the Summer Sun Celebration so he tracked the villains down to make sure Twilight's coronation would go off without a hitch but he found out that Grogar has returned and got his magic taken from him. If that twist never happened, the finale would've been fixed instantly. It wouldn't have been perfect but it would been leagues better than what we got.

5139131
Even if he suspected, he didn't know about the bell. He did say he didn't trust anything any of them said. But that doesn't mean he knew everything they did.

Also, it likely would've been better, but not leagues better.

5138407
Forgive me but no I didn't.

5140025
That is unacceptable. Watch it now or forever suffer! :flutterrage:

5140062
God help me I have no Internet 5 days a week and is force to rely on limited mobile data.

5140136
Honestly, it's probably worth it. Avatar is one of the best shows of all time.

5138400
You want a good example of subverting expectations, I recommend watching Season 3 of Young Justice.

Comment posted by doomie-22 deleted Nov 10th, 2019

5140749
I'm saying that in the end, Twilight's confidence was boosted.

So, after the first attempt to "subvert expectations" why did they think it was okay to do it a second time? This is why you don't order your next season before your current one has made it to air! You need time to see what works and what doesn't work!

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