) I can safely say that My Little Pony: A New Generation was great! 
And here are my random thoughts:
The Grogar twist and Discord's character · 9:49pm Aug 17th, 2020
So remember when Season 9 ended and I was under the assumption that the twist of Grogar really being Discord in disguise was a poor attempt at trying to subvert expectations and took a steaming dump all over Discord’s character development?
Yeah, I was on some bullshit.
I was too blinded by a G1 villain appearing in the show and then too enraged from having the rug pulled out from under me to think clearly. But after having plenty of time to look back on the finale since the show’s end and really think about it in-depth, I realise now that “Grogar” actually wasn’t that good of a villain before the reveal and that Discord’s character wasn’t ruined in any way.
And I’m gonna go over both points separately.
“Grogar” getting betrayed
When you look back at the season knowing “Grogar” is going to be stabbed in the back by the trio, the writers did adequately set it up.
Tirek, Chrysalis and Cozy Glow didn’t like working for “Grogar” at all and they only followed his orders begrudgingly to start with. Then, a few episodes later, they vowed to supplant “Grogar” and steal his power for themselves. They gradually sowed the seeds of their betrayal while also spreading distrust amongst ponykind, and it was clear this would play into their endgame.
The writers didn’t “subvert expectations”. It was made explicitly clear that the trio were going to jump “Grogar” the second all the pieces fell into place. So even if “Grogar” was the real Grogar, this betrayal they’d been plotting since the first half of the season still would’ve happened and he still would’ve been put out of commission at the start of the finale, thus it’s a moot point whether he was Discord or not.
This betrayal was literally staring the audience directly in the face the whole time, but the bronies were too busy squeeing over a G1 villain appearing in Friendship is Magic to notice.
“But what about all the build-up Grogar had?”
Uh, what build-up?
Tirek was a good villain but not just because he was brought back from G1. He had a clear character, a fun revamped personality and made the most of every minute he was onscreen in Twilight's Kingdom to become a memorable foe for the Mane Six.
“Grogar”, by comparison, was referencing G1 purely for the sake of referencing it.
Throughout Season 9, we barely see “Grogar”. We spend way more time with the trio than we do with him. Whenever an episode about the villains came along, Tirek, Chrysalis and Cozy Glow always got the lion's share of the focus and screentime.
And whenever he does come onscreen, “Grogar” does next to nothing for most of the season. He spends more time planning than actually doing anything. Aside from his brief burst of power in Frenemies, all the evil stuff he did (creating monsters, ruling with fear, etc) was done offscreen in the past while he hardly does anything onscreen in the present besides grouchily telling the trio “meh, learn to work together” and then leaving.
Really, “Grogar” didn’t get any build-up to warrant being “the Big Bad of the entire show” or “the Thanos of My Little Pony”, unlike Fire Lord Ozai from Avatar: The Last Airbender who was built up over the course of multiple seasons and whose actions we see the consequences of through Zuko. And no, a passing mention in a storybook two seasons ago doesn’t count as build-up.
Even if the show went with the Master Xandred approach (in that he does absolutely nothing until the final episode in which he’s destroyed for good) and made him be the finale’s villain, “Grogar” still wouldn’t have been that memorable. Really, why did bronies think the writers were gonna do anything with him when they’d done practically nothing with him up to that point? And even if they did, how would ONE episode of him doing shit have made him a villain worth the end of the show? If you really wanted Grogar to be the show’s final villain, you’d need to rewrite his character and the entire season, because as Jim Miller put it, the entire season was written with that twist in mind.
Besides, if he was really Grogar and he destroyed/punished the trio for their betrayal, took back his bell and was the main baddie of the finale, taking Tirek, Chrysalis and Cozy Glow out of the picture like that would’ve been shallow and made their return completely pointless.
And even before the twist of him being Discord is revealed, it doesn’t make sense why “Grogar” was just now trying to conquer Equestria when he had plenty of opportunities beforehand. So when you watch Season 9 again with the knowledge that he’s really Discord, “Grogar’s” absence makes a lot more sense and all signs pointed to the trio betraying him and being the real villains of the finale. Everything about how “Grogar” was written after The Beginning of The End shows that he was never going to be the final villain to begin with.
Remove your nostalgia goggles for a moment, pretend you’d never heard of Grogar before Season 9 and answer me this:
Which is the better villain?
A trio of villains that the audience is familiar with and invested in who have a more personal connection to the Mane Six and have spent the season working together to become a powerful force?
Or some random “hey, remember me from G1?” old goat that's gotten zero focus and barely appeared throughout the season?
Bear in mind, I’m not at all claiming “I think the twist of him being Discord was amazing”. While there were a few hints toward the twist (Discord not being surprised about King Sombra’s return from the dead, Applejack’s line reinforcing that “he sure has a weird way of being supportive”, Discord’s line that Twilight “just might be ready for whatever comes next”, and “Grogar” kinda looking like Discord with the white eyebrows, the beard and the red eyes with slightly yellow sclera), I will admit that I would’ve liked more indication that “Grogar” was really Discord. That way, the twist would’ve been easier to swallow and less jarring.
So with all that in mind, my final villain ranking for "Grogar" is...
2/10 VERY BAD
Why Discord’s character wasn't ruined
I really wish I could smack past me from October 2019 upside the head.
When you look at Discord’s reasoning for his plan in the finale (wanting to help Twilight), the claims that “he was out-of-character” or “he hasn’t learned anything” prove to be completely false. He started out using his powers in Seasons 4-5 to deliberately mess with Twilight and the Mane Six and separate ponies he likes (Fluttershy) from ponies that he perceives as a threat. But in the later seasons, he developed and started using his powers to save his friends, help out in his own strange way, make a good impression when he hosted that tea party for Fluttershy, and retaliate against Starlight when she callously dismissed his offer to be substitute principal while still not actively trying to harm her.
That’s called character growth.
Discord has significantly improved as a person but his biggest flaw is his habit of not thinking his plans all the way through. This is a character flaw that he possibly has to regularly keep in check like Rainbow Dash’s lack of tact or Applejack’s stubbornness.
From the very beginning, Discord has always been characterised as somebody who, in spite of his vast power, is also extremely short-sighted (just like a certain unicorn that bronies always make excuses for every time she fucks up). It’s funny how the brony fandom’s misguided belief that intentions matter more than execution completely vanishes whenever Discord shows up.
Now, with execution mattering more than intent in mind, Discord’s plan was ill-conceived. He was completely in the wrong. He fucked up, no denying that. But there’s a difference between a character’s actions being wrong and being believable. Both can be true. You can disagree with the decisions a character makes while also seeing how and why they would make those decisions, especially when it’s been established that Discord is very overconfident and short-sighted and, as an omnipotent being of chaos who’s used to doing what he wants without consequence, doesn’t consider the possibility that his plan could go terribly wrong.
And when he tells everyone the truth in the finale, unlike other former villains in the show who fuck up and receive no condemnation whatsoever, he gets viciously/rightfully called out for his actions and the Mane Six viciously/rightfully scorn him at every opportunity. And they only stop doing that when he makes up for his mistake and puts his life on the line to free them by smack-talking Tirek so that they can escape and plan their counterattack.
Hell, remember Best Gift Ever when, as a Hearths Warming gift for Fluttershy, he tricked Rainbow Dash into bringing that Winterzilla into Twilight’s castle so that Fluttershy could stop it and be the hero of the day? “Out-of-character”, my ass. He even explicitly says “you all expect that of me” in The Big Mac Question when he gets called out for the apple monsters. I don’t see why bronies are always surprised whenever Discord pulls stunts like this.
“Shouldn’t he have seen the betrayal coming though, especially when Tirek betrayed him the last time they teamed up?”
Discord didn’t “team up” with Tirek, Chrysalis and Cozy Glow here because they didn’t have a common goal; he tried and failed to manipulate them and set them up to get their asses kicked by Twilight. And unlike in Twilight’s Kingdom, Discord worked with Tirek under completely different circumstances and pretences here, one of them being that Tirek wasn’t aware “Grogar” was really Discord in disguise.
Besides we can’t judge the competence of a character based on info they don’t have. What I mean by that is, this time, Tirek was working alongside two evil allies who helped him get the jump on Discord. And he reasonably didn’t expect the trio to get along enough to plot a betrayal because every time he talked to them as “Grogar”, they always bickered like children. As the audience, we know they were going to overthrow Discord because we had the luxury of being able to see what they were doing behind his back.
“But don’t you think Discord got off too easy?”
Possibly, but the Mane Six have forgiven characters who have done far worse for much less.
It’s one thing to be irritated that Discord took this big of a risk to try and help Twilight. While it is an established aspect of his character, it’s also a very contentious one and that’s fine. But to say that this twist “ruined his character development” is just flat-out wrong.
And that concludes my reasons why I was stupid and wrong and completely overreacted to the finale. See ya!
I'm really glad to read this. I really am. I liked the twist at the time, or at least thought it made enough sense, and was pretty uncomfortable with just *how* angry and bitter you seemed in regards to it. Glad to see that you've reevaluated the twist and made peace with it.
So does this mean you’re starting to like The Ending of the End as a whole now?
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While there are some issues with it, I can still comfortably say it was a good finale overall.
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A child being turned to stone for eternity while grown adult villains who should've known better get off scot-free for actions just as bad if not worse (which circles back to the whole issue of the writers choosing to make Cozy Glow a child for no reason other than "lolz aren't we edgy?").
Celestia and Luna getting easily taken down once again.
Tirek easily beating the Pillars which only proves how pointless bringing them into the show was.
And some story points were confusing like Tirek being wary of using Discord's chaos magic when he absorbed it without any trouble in Season 4, Spike not just burning the sticky stuff imprisoning him and the Mane Six with his fire breath, and the villain trio not draining everyone's magic before imprisoning them so they can't possibly escape (though we know the Mane Six are gonna win in every premiere and finale and every villain in the show has at least one instance of Bond Villain Stupidity to give them a fighting chance so I guess I can let that slide).
For the most part, however, The Ending of The End is still pure fun and action, and the first finale I've legitimately enjoyed since Twilight's Kingdom.
Is there a way to favorite post? Because great work.
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I agree. It have some problem here and there but over all I don’t mind watching the finale. Is it the best, no, it is ok to watch, to me yes.
This was a very well-thought out explanation but I'm still unconvinced. It is nice to see a defender of this writing decision being able to formulate their thoughts without coming off as a prick. Although I disagree with you, I still must give credit to how you've managed to explain your reasoning. Well done!
Regarding Grogar not being the villain: While I had already seen all of G1, and did think "Grogar" felt compelling enough (they even made him a necromancer in reference to the G1 fanon, at least as far as we knew since we now know it was Discord's godlike powers), I knew they had to be planning something big with Chrysalis, Tirek, and Cozy Glow - either reforming them and helping the Mane 6 take down Grogar, or, as strongly implied by the end of Frenemies and their role in The Summer Sun Setback, both of which gave them a LOT of focus to the point of (partly, in the latter's case), revolving around them. Why have an episode revolving around three unreformed villains unless they were planning to do something big with them? I kept saying, though people disagreed then, that they would be the main villains of the final, but I never saw the trist of "Grogar's" true identity coming.
I'll read the rest later, got something else to do right now but I hope it can make me feel better about it as it's what I came for...
I noticed this too. Maybe he got off too easy by human standards but by pony standards he took the longest to forgive compared to Starlight, Sunset (as ponies go at least, for the humans except the Rainbooms she had to save them first), Tempest, and other reformed villains (Starlight even gave CHRYSALIS a chance to change her ways after she turned everyone against Twilight, tried to make her kill Cadance, and imprisoned the Mane 6 and the princesses, including Flurry Heart). And not for the first time either, as no one except Fluttershy and Celestia truly forgave him for when he was a full villain until he helped them beat Tirek (AFTER temporarily betraying them for him).
I still think he regressed more in A Matter of Principals, as Yona almost got killed even (and the Mane 6 when he set them on a wild goose chase), and then he was trying to make Starlight's job difficult to take her place rather than be helpful in his own way, even though this is because he was feeling left out despite the fact that the ponies were supposed to be on friendlier terms with him now. And, in contrast to every other thing Discord did wrong, though the Mane 6 were angry at him by the end of the episode, they seem to have forgiven him pretty quickly by his next appearance as they even ask for his help in defeating Sombra, which they didn't even think of doing in the movie btw.
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She knew better. She knows she's evil and she's fine with it ("We're villains! Duh!"), and she's smart enough to manipulate ponies (hence her cutie mark, and even if it was just for playing chess, getting a cutie mark in that is a sign of intelligence). Her VA Sunni Westbrook said she's irredeemable, and one of the writers said she's older than she physically appears, likely under eternal youth through some artifact or something. Even if she wasn't, she tried to murder Twilight and other ponies (and Spike) on more than one occasion without any remorse (even with a grin on her face, she's a psychopath. Starlight might've attempted to kill some village ponies but then she didn't seem psychotic, only angry, and Nightmare Moon was either Luna corrupted or a manifestation of Luna's bitterness), and she was attending the School of Friendship and nothing she learned there made her change her ways, where Discord reformed by Fluttershy simply treating him as a friend, and repeatedly showed a bit of discomfort after betraying ponies for Tirek where Cozy Glow never did when she went through with her plans ("To crush our enemies to death/dust and laugh as they all scream!"), or when Chrysalis threatened to dismember Spike. (Tirek's actually been shown to be LESS sadistic than Cozy Glow, though only where it was more tactical or involved birds and he still deserved his final fate as much as Chrysalis)
Not watched G1 Discord being Grogar the entire time threw me for a loop though I agree with your points on Discord wholly I believe had it been Grogar (granted haven't watch G1 yet though will at some point) he would've seen the trap coming and had a counterattack ready of some sort
Discord is my favorite character, and I never thought of him as "out-of-character".