Points of Canon: S2x19 - Putting Your Hoof Down

I’m trying to maintain at least an episode a day.

There are a lot of notable oddities throughout this episode.

• “Plenty for everypony.” Fluttershy addresses every animal as “pony.” Notice that she is also one of the very few characters who use the “everyX” form with a different species qualifier in televised canon. See Pony Service Announcement for discussion.
• Fluttershy is feeding the animals – almost entirely rodents – from a box with what has to be some highly processed form of pet food, but notice the rodent feed bag in the corner. Still full. Even the mice aren’t eating this one, despite being drawn on the label.
• I’ve kept mice. Mice don’t jump on you from top shelves even when food is involved. Why Fluttershy’s mice do is an open question, but that would result in them needing that wheelchair from A Bird in the Hoof.
• Mice generally wouldn’t be able to knock a rabbit down, either.
• Angel is able to mime turning green. Not something most bunnies are capable of. And manipulating the book suggests he is capable of flipping pages in it to search for interesting pictures, if not outright reading.
• The full checklist of ingredients contains turnips, carrots, asparagus, tomatoes, and a plant I can’t identify from that picture – but notice it’s a list of pictures and they’re colored. If you were drawing such a list yourself, you probably wouldn’t consider coloring the pictures in a fruitful use of your time, especially when you’re trying to get a bunny not to miss his lunch. I expect the list was included with the book.
• I just recently thought Pinkie was the only one caught in using checklists beside Twilight, but here we have Fluttershy doing it.
• Canterlot Friends are out shopping. After lunch.
• That old stallion is using an ear horn as a hearing aid.
• “You’re in my personal space.” Ponies have the concept of personal space. Not a given for a herd species at all, especially with Pinkie around! In fact, it’s another example of pony schizotech, because in our world, the use of the term starts with anthropological research of the 1960s, as far as I could track down.
• “You’ve got to stop being such a doormat.” You know, with the way ponies use hooves, we should be seeing a lot more of the actual doormats around.
• Fluttershy uses her wing to scoop up tomatoes, but handles the money with her teeth instead of the other wing.
• The tomato salespony is wearing an apron, which are pretty rare. Notice that this one involves only one strap, rather than two like the one in Call of the Cutie.
• So tomatoes cost either one or two bits, but what is the unit of tomatoes? I don’t think these three tomatoes can weigh a kilogram, but a pound doesn’t seem like it would be right either. Throughout the haggling session, they just refer to them as “tomatoes,” and the signs show three tomatoes equaling two coins.
• Crafty Crate is wearing a two-strap apron. Along with a bow tie clipped right into his coat, apparently. Also, a really rare case of a five-o’clock shadow.
• When gouging, Crafty Crate raises the price to ten bits for a single cherry. Not a kilogram, not a pound, not an ounce, not a cup – a single cherry. But even at the fair price of two bits, a cherry, which has an average weight of 5 grams, is 60 times more expensive than tomatoes by weight. In our world, the average difference appears to be about 2 times. And there’s that incident with Cherry Jubilee counting cherries individually before transportation. So what gives? And is this why Cherry Jubilee is seated in the VIP lounge in the same row as Fancy Pants at Equestria Games?
• And the one who leaves with the cherry is Lemon Hearts. Of course.
• Iron Will’s goats wear ties and a name tag pinned to their coats.
• Fluttershy’s mailbox contains, beyond Iron Will’s leaflet (with a pop-up Iron Will!) ten other pieces of mail, in radically different envelopes. Three of them appear to be windowed envelopes, which would imply commercial or official mail – i.e. a letter with a letterhead. That’s rather a lot of mail, in general – some of this might be bills and other junk, but at least a few are personal letters. So who’s writing her? It might be the “wrong mail,” as we find out later in the episode…
• The location of the seminar is given as “hedge maze center.” So where is that?
• “As Celestia is my witness, I’m never gonna be a pushover again!” Taking Celestia’s name in vain. Also, Celestia is hurting on her mountain because Fluttershy went back on this oath eventually.
• Wait. So it’s autumn in the space immediately around the maze, but the rest of the town has the usual summer? Seriously?…
• The goats don’t have speaking lines, but they do have earphones and microphones…
• …but of course the Canterlot Friends would attend this seminar. Many of them, twice.
• While the audio and lighting equipment looks like it’s electrical, the fog machine is not. But it’s not identical to the one seen in The Show Stoppers, either – this one is muscle powered in addition to having a steam pipe. WTF?.
• “Stomp if you wanna pay nothing for this seminar!” Wait, so why are ponies not stomping?…
• For the “volunteer,” the goats seek out one who is not raising a hoof, which is sensible. Only Fluttershy not doing so is strange. While discussing Fame and Misfortune, Meta Four suggested that ponies, being a herd species, are more susceptible to viral social effects, so that as one pony laughs at Pinkie doing everyday things, other ponies start laughing too without understanding why. So wouldn’t Fluttershy, a self-described doormat, be more susceptible to this, rather than less? Then she would raise a hoof. By covering in fear instead, she actually goes really hard against the grain, here.
• Notice that Fluttershy does not even think about flying over the goat, only walking is on her list of options. In fact, this whole metaphor of Iron Will’s only works well for a pony who doesn’t fly.
• “When somepony tries to block, show them that you rock!” It really was meant for earth ponies and unicorns, wasn’t it?
• “Excuse me, Mr. Greenhooves, but I-I think you might be over-watering my petunias…” Actually, why is he watering them at all? Is she employing a gardener? Does she have the money, and didn’t the entire shopping sequence suggest that she probably doesn’t?
• A water hose being used with no obvious source implies that the water network does reach as far as Fluttershy’s house.
• “Showpony business is tough.” Notice that it’s Cherry Berry saying it, whom we later see moonlighting as an aviator. Guess showpony business was too tough.
• “A donkey and a mule are stuck on a desert island…” Ponies have ethnic jokes. This is more racist than you’d expect from them.
• See the above comment regarding flying over: Fluttershy should be the pony least impeded by those trash carts, but it’s her turning them over, here. And then she had to walk through the piles of trash on the bridge.
• Ponies haul their own trash to a presumable dumping ground out of town – because I’m pretty sure neither Bon-Bon nor Cherry Berry are part of a trash collection service this time.
• It’s interesting that in Sugarcube Corner, Rarity pops up behind the counter next to Pinkie, rather than in the line or off to the side or anywhere else.
• “Looks like that monster’s workshop really paid off!” At least in Pinkie’s mouth, the word “monster” appears to carry little to no negative connotations. Also notice that just like Pinkie never knew what griffons are, she apparently didn’t know what minotaurs are either. Rarity seems to know, her calling Iron Will a monster later on appears to be more of letting her opinion of him slip.
• Pinkie laughs for no observable reason at all. Fluttershy dumps the bowl of punch on her for, likewise, no observable reason. What exactly happened here? The only thing I can think of would be Pinkie attempting to prank Fluttershy, with Fluttershy recognizing this and acting preemptively. But it’s rather abnormal for Pinkie to prank Fluttershy at all.
• Once again we see the Ponyville taxi service. Notice that Fluttershy is flagging down a taxi just to go home, when she arrived minutes ago without the use of one. Also notice that this is the moment when Fluttershy graduated to actual assault. She appears to have gotten away with it.
• One more case of a non-uniform postal worker uniform. No two mailpony uniforms are alike, even within the scope of this episode alone!
• We see the rare case of a postage stamp up close. Ponies use stamps.
• Notice that Fluttershy did get a “correct mail” as a result of this whole sequence, she’s leaving with a letter in her mouth. She lost it along the way, though.
• “Excuse me, do you know how to get to the Ponyville tower?” Notice the very stereotypical tourist, who is not, for some reason, using the typical rigid camera mount seen throughout most of the series. He’s also consulting a book with some bookmarks in it. Does Ponyville have a guidebook?…
• “I can’t believe that the two most frivolous ponies in Ponyville are trying to tell new Fluttershy how to live her life when they are throwing their own lives away on pointless pursuits that nopony else gives a flying feather about!” So is “flying feather” an euphemism?
• Wait. Where did the entire crown of leaves on that tree next to Fluttershy’s cottage go? And how did the stream get to be so muddy?
• “Are you kidding? Fluttershy is overdue as it is. Iron Will collects now.” So how long, do you think, this entire episode take to happen? In fact, how would one get to be overdue here?
• Notice that Iron Will remains threatening throughout this exchange, but never escalates to actual assault or what could be termed destruction of property – there’s clearly law involved here, which offers strict definitions.
• Fluttershy narrates a Lesson Zero-pattern letter, but is not shown sending or dictating it, and does not refer to the events as having happened today or recently.

I wonder what Twilight, Rainbow and Applejack were doing while this was going on.

Comments

[Mitch H]

I'd missed that Iron Will is repeatedly referred to as a 'monster' in the episode itself. That adds to the argument that he's a one-off chimera-type 'monster' rather than a member of a tribe or race of minotaurs.

So what do the goats say over their microphone system?
Baa.
Baa, baa.
Baaaa.

[Meta Four]

• The location of the seminar is given as “hedge maze center.” So where is that?
• Wait. So it’s autumn in the space immediately around the maze, but the rest of the town has the usual summer? Seriously?…

I think we can answer both of these together. Iron Will rented space in the center of the hedge maze in Canterlot. Canterlot makes the transition into Fall a few days before Ponyville does.

Does Ponyville have a guidebook?…

If not a full guidebook, at least a full chapter in the “Canterlot & Vicinity” guidebook.

So is “flying feather” an euphemism?

Funny that, between this and “peeved”, Fluttershy is the one with the most memorable cussing jokes.

I got in a conversation once, wondering how much each of the mane six would cuss, if they were in an unrated cartoon for adults but their personalities were intact. And most of us agreed that Fluttershy would be the sweet, innocent one who never ever said anything harsher than “darn”—until something got her really mad, at which point she’d launch into a tirade foul enough to make Quentin Tarantino blush.

[Oliver]

4638993

I’d missed that Iron Will is repeatedly referred to as a ‘monster’ in the episode itself. That adds to the argument that he’s a one-off chimera-type ‘monster’ rather than a member of a tribe or race of minotaurs.

Fluttershy says he’s “a minotaur,” emphasis mine. Friends Forever #10 has him mention that his wife kicked him out of the maze. While this does not definitely settle that his wife is also a minotaur, you would think she is, wouldn’t you. And the moderately-jossed My Little Pony #27: The Revenge of Everfree features a different minotaur.

The argument isn’t settled by primary canon, but secondary canon clearly wants us to think minotaurs are a species unto themselves.

So what do the goats say over their microphone system?

No idea, but we never hear it, not even a “Baa.”

[Oliver]

4638996

I think we can answer both of these together. Iron Will rented space in the center of the hedge maze in Canterlot. Canterlot makes the transition into Fall a few days before Ponyville does.

Nope, I am pretty sure this is not Canterlot:

vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/2/27/Seminar_S02E19.png/revision/latest?cb=20120307075042

Notice the mountain in the background.

And most of us agreed that Fluttershy would be the sweet, innocent one who never ever said anything harsher than “darn”—until something got her really mad, at which point she’d launch into a tirade foul enough to make Quentin Tarantino blush.

Mental note: Try to devise a full text search query to see if there’s a fic where Fluttershy does that…

[FanOfMostEverything]

I just recently thought Pinkie was the only one caught in using checklists beside Twilight, but here we have Fluttershy doing it.

To be fair, a lot of people use shopping lists.

While discussing Fame and Misfortune, Meta Four suggested that ponies, being a herd species, are more susceptible to viral social effects, so that as one pony laughs at Pinkie doing everyday things, other ponies start laughing too without understanding why. So wouldn’t Fluttershy, a self-described doormat, be more susceptible to this, rather than less? Then she would raise a hoof. By covering in fear instead, she actually goes really hard against the grain, here.

Fluttershy may describe herself as a doormat, but she often goes against the social grain in passive ways. Living so near the Everfree Forest, preferring the company of animals, staying in on Nightmare Night... She may fold quickly when directly confronted, but when left to her own devices, she's pretty weird.

Where did the entire crown of leaves on that tree next to Fluttershy’s cottage go? And how did the stream get to be so muddy?

The landscape of Equestria appears to be psychosensitive to those who live in it. This is most dramatically seen when Rainbow Dash gets a cloud to rain by sulking on top of it in "Testing Testing 1-2-3," but it's not the only example.

Or it's just for dramatic effect. One of the two.

[Oliver]

4639005

To be fair, a lot of people use shopping lists.

In most cases, they don’t do checkboxes, though, they just cross out the entries purchased.

[Eruantalon]

While this does not definitely settle that his wife is also a minotaur, you would think she is, wouldn’t you.

Spike objects to your speciesist assumptions.

[howard035]

You know, with the way ponies use hooves, we should be seeing a lot more of the actual doormats around.

We should see a lot more shoes on the front hooves of non-unicorns as well.

So what gives? And is this why Cherry Jubilee is seated in the VIP lounge in the same row as Fancy Pants at Equestria Games?

Cherries are like pony cocaine. More seriously, I'm guessing that Cherry Jubilee is also the mayor/town representative of Dodge Junction, just as Fancy Pants is for Canterlot.

• And the one who leaves with the cherry is Lemon Hearts. Of course.

At this point I think the reason the Canterlot friends never said anything was because Lemon Hearts was keeping them apart.

• The location of the seminar is given as “hedge maze center.” So where is that?

Also remember it is never seen before or since. Was this supposed to be somewhere in Ponyville, or maybe Ponyville adjacent?

• Wait. So it’s autumn in the space immediately around the maze, but the rest of the town has the usual summer? Seriously?…

Minotaurs live in mazes, according to the comics, and the mazes are somewhat magical.

By covering in fear instead, she actually goes really hard against the grain, here.

This is a good point. Growing up in Cloudsdale, she's built a habit of not doing what the herd does, because the herd is usually doing something athletic and tough.

Also notice that just like Pinkie never knew what griffons are, she apparently didn’t know what minotaurs are either.

I question educational standards on the rock farm. Clearly they have depth, but not a lot of breadth.

So how long, do you think, this entire episode take to happen? In fact, how would one get to be overdue here?

I'd wager at least two weeks, for the shopping, the seminar, Fluttershy adopting the techniques and going overboard, etc. Perhaps shorter if Iron Will's seminar was right in town and he normally collects only 3 or 4 days after the show.

Notice that Iron Will remains threatening throughout this exchange, but never escalates to actual assault or what could be termed destruction of property

It's a surprising threat. First Iron Will threatens a "world of hurt," but as soon as Fluttershy points out his guarantee, he rolls over. From that I think he meant a "world of legal hurt," i.e. suing in small claims court or something. If he meant he would beat Fluttershy up unless she paid, a customer guarantee would hardly stop him.

It's weird how Iron Will walks away from this basically learning a lesson about better techniques, but the fandom treated him like a villain after this.

[Oliver]

4639448

Cherries are like pony cocaine.

Or Cherry Jubilee is actually the richest pony in the country on her cherries alone…

Also remember it is never seen before or since. Was this supposed to be somewhere in Ponyville, or maybe Ponyville adjacent?

Ponyville adjacent, probably. I also suspect the hedge maze seen in Scare Master might be the same one, but I’d need to study it to confirm or deny, haven’t done it yet.

It’s weird how Iron Will walks away from this basically learning a lesson about better techniques, but the fandom treated him like a villain after this.

So do the comic writers in Siege of the Crystal Empire, for that matter, despite the nice portrayal in Friends Forever #10.

[Cursed Quill]

“Plenty for everypony.” Fluttershy addresses every animal as “pony.” Notice that she is also one of the very few characters who use the “everyX” form with a different species qualifier in televised canon.

If they ever went more on Ep1's bit where she's absolutely thrilled to talk to Spike and couldn't talk to Twilight at all…

Fluttershy uses her wing to scoop up tomatoes, but handles the money with her teeth instead of the other wing.

Could be limited magic for grasping things with wings.

Iron Will’s leaflet (with a pop-up Iron Will!) t

"When printers asked me to lie down on the page, I showed them the depth of Iron Will's rage!"

The location of the seminar is given as “hedge maze center.” So where is that?

mind, traditionally minotaurs are associated with labyrinths, which are distinct from mazes...besides, the only hedge maze we know is in Canterlot.
"Continuity and geography be the boss of you? don't get lost, get even!"

It really was meant for earth ponies and unicorns, wasn’t it?

Supports Canterlot despite all the evidence.

This is more racist than you’d expect from them.

Zebras.

[in re: flying over]

Fluttershy walks very often.

But it’s rather abnormal for Pinkie to prank Fluttershy at all.

New Fluttershy is an acceptable target in ways that Old Fluttershy is not.

“flying feather” an euphemism?

Has to be, because flight feathers are generally kind of important for most…at least, for nonmagical flight; may not be true for pterippi.

Wait. Where did the entire crown of leaves on that tree next to Fluttershy’s cottage go? And how did the stream get to be so muddy?

The Magic of Friendship, having fled this place, immediately showed the wasteland it would be absent active pterippaforming…

So wouldn’t Fluttershy, a self-described doormat, be more susceptible to this, rather than less? Then she would raise a hoof. By covering in fear instead, she actually goes really hard against the grain, here.

A doormat is not the same as a crowd-follower. Really, the latter requires you to want to be a part of the group, which Fluttershy is…really not, as 4639005 notes.

[Cursed Quill]

“You’re in my personal space.” Ponies have the concept of personal space. Not a given for a herd species

It was invoked earlier, in Bridle Gossip.