Sunset Shimmer's Moral Progress · 1:40pm Feb 10th, 2016
A moral progress implies the possession of some sort of morals. I do assume that Sunset Shimmer has morals, even pre-reform. Note, though, that at this point in her character development, they are almost entirely self-serving ones.
If Sunset Shimmer had no morals, she wouldn't have been capable of her Heel Realization and Heel Face Turn a bit later, in Equestria Girls.
As Luna (who has been on both sides of this issue) points out in Divine Jealousy and the Voice of Reason, it's especially important to have morals if one has power, because power unconstrained by morality is terrible. Luna knows this very well, because she has memories of being Nightmare Moon; she also remembers, in extreme horror, the cruel behavior of King Sombra, in which he tempted her to participate, the fundamental source of her shame in the Shadow Wars Story Verse, and the thing which she has not by YOH 1505 yet admitted to Twilight Sparkle, because she fears that Twilight would be revolted by this and totally reject her even as a friend. (When Luna tells Rarity in Post-Traumatic that she's done far worse things than Rarity, she means it).
We must distinguish between three moral states Sunset Shimmer occupies in vanilla canon.
Pre-Reform Sunset Shimmer is trying to return to Equestria in triumph so that either she will naturally become or she will impress Celestia into making her an Alicorn (she doesn't grasp that Ascension doesn't work like that). She is willing to do cruel things, socially, in order to achieve this end, but she actually does them only either to Humans or to her direct adversary Twilight Sparkle. She is not willing to kill, and she tries to avoid violence as much as possible: I postulate that this is because she still adheres to (and is presumably proud of) her Equestrian moral code, the Way of Harmony. (Yes, I assume that this includes a basic sexual morality as well, but that's almost the least important issue here).
Nightmare Sunset Shimmer is the one who wants to enslave all her schoolmates to create a zombie army and attack Celestia. You can clearly see that the fall into Nightmare horrifies Pre-Reform Sunset Shimmer -- look at the expressions on her face during the transformation sequence. Nightmare Sunset Shimmer is willing to kill (she tries to kill Twilight and she must know that her plan is likely to get a whole bunch of Humans killed, including Flash Sentry (the last part being relevant because Flash was probably special to her, as witness her lack of desire for revenge on him during the whole earlier part of the movie, in contrast to her treatment of the other Humans).
Reformed Sunset Shimmer realizes that her previous actions -- not just in Nightmare but in general -- were misguided and morally wrong. She's given up on trying to force her way back to Equestria, she's not only not willing to kill or employ unprovoked violence, but goes far out of her way to avoid even emotionally or socially hurting others, She behaves as a heroine, putting her own life in danger at least twice to defeat serious threats to the Humans. She actually is practicing her Equestrian moral code and doing so in a sincere rather than self-serving fashion. Not unsurprisingly but touchingly, this results in her actual Ascension.
There's even a freaking music video about it, which we've all seen:
Oh, and here's the thread that inspired this and the preceding blog entry.
One interesting thing to note is Sunset's transition through Rainbow Rocks. At the beginning, the pendulum swung far in the other direction, to the point where Sunset felt like she didn't have the right to defend or assert herself. Even when she tried to use her Dimly-Lit Hallway of Intimidation® against the sirens, it was a halfhearted attempt that quickly backfired on her. Sunset saved the day once she accepted that she had the right to point out her friends' mistakes and the ability to do so without being hurtful. She restored her magic once she accepted that even after the Fall Formal, she had worth and value as a person and could do more than stand idly by and hope for the best.
Again, some parallels with Luna, though with mind-controlling hippocampi rather than a psychological self-flagellation device.
Very true, and it's good that you made the point. Sunset was genuinely trying to be nice at the start of that movie, but she didn't really know how to do it, save by being a doormat. Most of the school was responding to her with hatred or fear; the three reasons she wasn't getting even worse reactions (specifically, outright violence) were that (1) Canterlot High School is an elite high school which doesn't really have a lot of violent students, (2) enough of her old reputation survived that most of them didn't really want to push her too far, and (3) the Humane Five, as a group, were her friends.
Not that I'm saying that Sunset would have let herself suffer serious physical attack. She's still Sunset Shimmer, and the one character flaw she keeps even after being fully-reformed is that she's a bit bad-tempered. She probably also got some basic self-defense training as part of her education back in Equestria (and some of that might carry over through the transition of physical forms). I wouldn't want to be the fool who actually hit her.
Especially because the Sirens were far more evil and vicious than Sunset ever was, save perhaps when in the grip of the Nightmare (and even then, I think she was at most only as bad as them -- and only potentially). I love the way they basically circle her, like aquatic predators preparing to dart in to take off pieces. They don't really do that, of course, because they're pretending to be Human, but you can see it in their body language.
One thing I love in general about Rainbow Rocks is that the Sirens have inhuman, and often aquatic, body language. It's part of what Sunset Shimmer means when she says they're "off."
By the way, is Hallway of Intimidation a card?
Yes. Sunset Shimmer realized that being good and being passive are not the same things.
3745067
Yeah, body language is one of the nice subtle touches in the movies, whether it's the Sirens' motions or pony Twilight never knowing what to do with her fingers. Your Sunset probably would've clung to her more equine mannerisms as yet another point over the barbarians if she weren't worried about what such an obvious tell might do to her efforts to blend in.
Sadly, no. I used up that bit of design space when making the Hall of Hooves in FiCG: Castle Mane-ia
One think about Sunset Satan and Midnight Sparkle, I'm not sure that they are actually the characters themselves gone bad. Looking at their transformations, plus how easily they turned back, plus the fact neither of them nor the transformation trinkets they used were evil, it seems odd to me both would go so evil.
Unless maybe the harmony magic they used decided to teach them a lesson. "Oh, you want this power. No, no, here's what happens when people who don't care about other people get this kind of power," and they get to watch as they become monsters, until someone reaches out to them for them to grab onto
The first rule of the tautology club is the first rule in the list of the rules of the tautology club.
...sorry, I couldn't stop myself.
Also, I kinda have to ask, why do you constantly quote your own fics to provide argumentation?
Wouldn't that be sort-of circular?
Could you not merely say that that's because ponies don't even have a concept of murder at all?
It is a civilization where the idea of a deadly weapon is throwing pie in someone's face, after all.
To her friends, to be exact. Distinction is fine, but not really insignificant.
Finally, I'm probably missing something, because I fail to see the point of this essay.
It is really, really obvious that throughout EQG trilogy we have a moral progression of Sunset Shimmer, from an egotistical super-idea centered person who cares not who she hurts, to, in RR a person conscious of others and empathetic towards them (and also with a really, really low self-esteem, as demonstrated by her awkwardness and fear to act even when her friends are clearly in error and/or in need of her assistance), and finally, in Frienship Games, finalizing her transformation into person who is socially responsible, that is not only does she stop hurting others than herself, but actively tries to help and guide others when she sees the need.
That is not an example of any specific code, by the way, not even Harmony/Friendship thing that Equestria has going, it is a general progression of morality in most lowest-common-denominator, oversimplified way it is possible to depict - going from caring for one-self (near-pure-egoism) to neutrality, to actual, active altruism.
That is the whole point of all the movies. Everyone who watched them and is not five years old probably noticed that.
Always nice to see your thoughts.
3745196
guards carry spears and we've seen them go to war.
3745196
LOL!!!
I wrote that originally in response to what seemed to be Wanderer D complaining that I gave Sunset Shimmer an explicit moral code. It seems rather obvious to me that if one is going to write about the moral decline, fall and regeneration of a character (Sunset's story arc) one should have a handle on what her morals are to begin with! Otherwise, one is probably implying some sort of specific moral precepts without thinking too hard about them, but this is dangerous because different writers and readers may take different morals for granted.
I'm illustrating my own fanon.
Except that we know from other episodes that they have spears, crossbows, catapults and cannons. It is more probable that they have a strong code against killing save in total war, such that most mere civil disturbances, feuds and skirmishes are fought as non-lethally as possible. We have something similar, and to a civilization with no scruples against the use of weapons of mass destruction, our prosecution of every war we've fought after the end of World War II might seem absurd.
Point is that Sunset Shimmer, as a member of the Equestrian upper classes, educated by the immortal mare who probably developed that code against killing in the first place, almost certainly shares this code. As, more or less explicitly, does Twilight Sparkle, who is Not So Different from her. The fact that, in her Nightmare state, Sunset Shimmer was willing to kill, implies deep and terrible corruption, and Sunset loathes herself when she comes out of it. (Note, this was the same experience that led Luna to torture herself for years after her liberation).
I'm saying that the main point of the trilogy is Sunset Shimmer's moral decline, fall and regeneration -- and thus if one writes a story about Sunset Shimmer, it's important to keep in mind just where she is along that path.
3745442 well, spears so far has ben mostly cerenonious, crossbow used for grappling and cannons mostly are used as a party-delivery system.
But still, sure, thats valid. Just throwing a thought out there.
If I may borrow a rhetorical move from your book,in my yet-in-progress fic I postulated that ponies never developed tools specifically for murder
Sunset herself is probably the only reaso I have to look into any of the EQG story arc, but ive always been a sucker for stories.like hers. Hell the whole 'flawed character wants to improve herself, or doesnt understand they are wrong at all is why I love Greek mythology. But its not all just about redemption, its also regret and even a twisted form of revenge as well. The big issue is the fine line between knowing who you are and wanting to be better, and utterly hating who you used to be. Hating your past self, can lead to lots of self loathing and other habits. (Like creating a monster for the sole purpose of punishing yourself.) Ya need to in the end, look back at what you did, and forgive yourself as well. No matter what you do, no matter what others say, no matter who even remembers... until you forgive yourself the weight of everything will never go away. (Yay for past experience.. -sigh-)