The Keepers of Discord VS Variables (by Hoopy McGee and The Descendent respectively) · 8:31am Jan 31st, 2016
Spoilers... (Well Duh)
Read The Keepers of Discord Here
Read Variables Here
Does anypony remember Return Of Harmony? The introduction of Discord? John De Lancie?
After the Season 2 Premire, there were many great ideas by people about what happened to Discord while in his new stone imprisonment before Keep Calm and Flutter On.
There are two great stories on fimfiction about that. The Keepers of Discord by Hoopy McGee and Variables by The Descendent. Which two stories is better?
Let’s find out...
1. Characters
Characters are one of the important elements in any story. So which characters were better from both stories?
First off in both stories, you never see The Mane Six at all but considering they were mind controlled by him. It’s no wonder they’d want to forget about him.
The Keepers of Discord focuses on the lives of the Keepers of the Statue of Discord with Discord as the side character and Princess Celestia wayyyy in the background.
Variables focuses on only Spike interacting with the lifeless Discord Statue.
The case of quality vs quantity of characters is here once again in my compare/review.
So let’s look at the characters that actually interacted with the Discord Statue the most. The OCs characters who are The Keepers of Discord and Spike of Variables.
The first two Keepers of Discord; Ember Spark and Evening Breeze, to me felt aren’t actual real competition compared to Spike.
This was probably because they weren’t that entirely interesting to me.
Celestia nodded to the unicorn by her side, and I once again turned my attention to the drab little thing. "This is Ember Spark. She's one of the staff here at the castle. And, starting today, she has a new position, one that I have created with you in mind. She is to be the very first Keeper of Discord."
The who of the what, now? The mare next to Celestia smiled shyly and stepped forward, giving a little bow with her head. Not quite the proper deference for the incarnation of pure chaos, but my injured dignity will take any salve, no matter how paltry.
"Her position, and those who come after her, will be to maintain and clean your statue and the surrounding area, and... well, to keep you company. She will talk to you, read to you, occasionally arrange to have music brought to you—"
Oh, no. No. Seriously, no. Anything was better than this! Boredom is better than this! Don't you dare, Celestia!
But despite this, they at least provided the necessary comedy for Discord to remark back.
"This is so stupid," Ember Spark muttered in my ear.
You're stupid, I wanted to tell her.
"I don't even know if you can hear me," she sighed, as she used her magic to clean pigeon crap out of my ear with a brush.
I wish I couldn't, you boring mule.
Of course, I had no such luck. The years spun by, and things kept on pretty much the same as always. It took Evening Breeze several years before she was comfortable in my enclosure, and could look at my incredibly handsome face without flinching or hiding behind her mother.
Then, one day, she simply came up and stared at me, while her mother was trimming the hedges in my enclosure.
"I'm not afraid of you," the filly said.
That's because you're too stupid to know any better, I would have liked to inform her.
The real contender for Spike would be Sunny Meadows; The Third Keeper. She’s bright, she’s uplifting, clever and has a good sense of humour.
"Ready? Okay... One, two, three, GO! Tag, you're it!"
Giggling, Sunny Meadows ran off, hiding behind one of the nearby hedges. After a minute, she popped her fiery red head up, frowning at me.
"You're never going to win at this rate, Mister Discord," she scolded, then burst out giggling. "That's twenty seven to zero for me!"
I would have rolled my eyes, but, you know, statue and all.
Spike in Variables, on the other hand, is shown as a kid who is showing uncertainty in himself but grows in self confidence and finally leads to self realization of the true important things in life and matures from it.
But frankly Sunny Meadows does the same dramatic speeches like Spike but her character is much more uplifting and far more interesting. Thus, keeping readers immersed into the story.
She had a delightful way of starting her garden. It definitely wasn't what I had expected. First, she tore up a large part of the turf, raking and plowing until the ground was nice and torn up. Then, she came up to me to show me what she was planting.
"Geraniums. Violets. We got some daisies, and lillies, and marigolds."
She went on and on, showing me all the different seeds, bulbs, and such that she had on her little cart. Truly a staggering variety.
"I put a lot of thought on how I was going to plant these, Mister Discord. And, do you know what I decided?"
No, kid. I really don't.
"I'm going to plant them with chaos!" She grinned at me, then grabbed a bunch of seeds and bulbs and just flung them at the soil.
"Whee!" she said, then laughed, flinging hoof-full after hoof-full of flowers towards the tilled soil. Once she was done, she wandered around, making sure that each was planted properly where it had landed. Then, struggling with her underdeveloped wings, she zipped up into the sky, returning moments later with a black cloud, which she jumped on until it dissipated, pouring its rain onto the garden below.
"And there we have a Chaos Garden. Isn't it cool?"
"I'm just saying, this would work a lot better if it were more like other gardens!" Summer Sky insisted.
"That's the whole point of the Chaos Garden, though," Sunny replied in what Summer obviously took as an obnoxiously reasonable voice.
"But it gets so hard to fertilize and water. Can't we at least move things so that they're in rows?"
"It's not about easy, dear. It's about a little bit of contained chaos for Mister Discord, here."
The younger mare, looking so much like her mother that it was almost as if I were looking into some sort of time vortex into the past, snorted and stomped her hoof.
"Why bother, then? Why not let it all go to chaos?"
Sunny smiled while she tended the garden, digging up and tossing out a lily that had passed on, and planting a randomly-grabbed shrub in its place.
"When you step back, what do you see?"
Summer grumbled but complied, taking a few steps back and then looking.
"I see a mess," she said. Sunny laughed.
"Try taking a few more steps back, then look wider."
"Wider?" Summer peered towards her mother, who was clad in soil and had a kerchief tied around her mane, which, for some reason, had a little grey in it. "I see... I see the garden, which is a mess."
"What else?" Sunny prompted.
"I see... you?" When Sunny motioned for her to continue, Summer looked around and then said, "I see the hedge maze, and the grass."
"And how do those look?"
"Neat. Orderly. Except right by the border of the Chaos Garden, where weeds keep creeping out. I keep telling you, a retaining wall—"
"I never wanted to put a wall around the garden, dear. It didn't seem right to fence it in." Sunny grunted with the effort as she got to her hooves, wiping her brow with a towel. "What you're seeing is order, all around the Chaos Garden. Trimmed grass, sculptured hedges, clean walkways. If we put a wall around the garden, we'd rob it of its power. If we let it go everywhere, it would corrupt the order of this place—"sounds good to me, I thought, "—but that would rob the garden itself of what makes it special."
Hmm.
"Chaos and order go together like oil and water," Sunny said, piling her gardening tools into a cart. "They don't really mix all that well, but if you take one away and just leave the other... well, it gets boring, doesn't it?"
"Order isn't boring," Summer protested.
Oooh, I'm so giving you a noogie once I'm free, little filly!
"Pure order? Of course it is," Sunny said sensibly. "We need order to have a stable life, but we need chaos to make that life interesting enough to live."
Still chatting, the two of them left the grove. I barely noticed. I was too busy looking at the garden.
The Keepers of Discord overall handled the characters better than Variables as we got to know the characters growing up and thus got to know them better. Ya some of the Keepers were bland but that feeling of time drifting by to the eyes of an immortal is also an added bonus.
Despite Spike maturing as a character in Variables, with three other characters all-together who are growing in character with time in The Keepers of Discord. You can see which sounds better to read about.
No offence Spike but the OCs win this round. Point goes to The Keepers of Discord.
2. Dialogue
Words mean power. So which story handles their thought provoking dialogues better?
In The Keepers of Discord, the dialogue of the first two keepers kind of deserved the ridicule by Discord. Cause seriously? What was the point in talking about what you do in your life? Who cares? But I guess it makes sense they’ll feel this way as they were forced into this job.
"I guess I just expected more when Celestia said she had a 'special position' for me," the drudge gabbled on.
Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate!
"My friends tease me, you know."
Not a surprise.
"They call me the Royal Bird-poo cleaner."
I saw less and less of Evening Breeze after a while, though she'd still occasionally come out and help her mother out. Apparently, she was in school, or something. Not that I minded. On the occasions that her mother managed to drag her out here, she usually spent the whole time sulking.
"She takes after her father," Ember told me one day. "He hates being forced into things he doesn't want to do."
But their dialogue did set the tone of the story in it’s pacing of the shifting sands of time while also giving hilarious thoughts by Discord on what they had to say.
At least Sunny Meadows; the Third Keeper, gave heart into her words by giving very simple ideas and speeches that actually changes Discord’s thoughts on chaos and the universe itself.
This does change Discords thoughts on what his powers truly are but by the end of the story we do not know if he wants reformation.
"Now, I'm leaving. Like I said, I have some things to think about."
"Such as?" I couldn't resist asking.
"Such as how Chaos isn't any fun without Order. And how Order isn't any fun..."
"Without a little bit of Chaos."
"Well, perhaps more than a little bit, Celestia," he said with a grin. "Fare well until I see you again. Oh, and give your sister a kiss for me, would you? She was always my favorite."
In Variables, Spike also gives a whole hearted speech about Discords actions while not being forced into this “job”. He does it willingly and thus each word said has weight and emotion in them. His speech is thus written throughout the whole story since he is the focus. Spike gives very thought provoking speeches that gives us readers’ food for thought.
"I don't think you're a bad guy," Spike said as he began to wrap the vine around his own small arms for greater leverage, gathering it to himself. "I mean, I really didn't get to see that much, when you were doing your thing. It didn't seem like you were actually trying to hurt anybody, you were just, you know… having fun."
Spike looked down to Discord once again. As he measured the length of the grape vine Spike's face betrayed pain as a memory reached out to grab at him.
"Of course, I like fun too. I mean, who doesn't? I even like pranks. I like to laugh…"
Spikes face became even unhappier, and he stopped fidgeting with the grape vine for an instant.
"I even laughed at Twilight. I laughed at her. I laughed at my friends when they were confused and hurt. I, I did that..."
Spike stared out across the pond, capturing the colors of the leaves in his memory, letting them drive out the unhappy recollections. He turned back to address the spirit, and as he did the whelp began to turn the grape vine into a circle, wrapping around and around itself.
"Even if you weren't doing it on purpose, you were still hurting them. The ponies, you were hurting them. You were… ruining everything they worked for, driving a wedge between them. You were ripping them apart, you… you broke what they had worked really, really hard for. You broke up everything that they been working for since... well, since before the first time you tried this stuff, I guess."
"I've been trying to find a good way to tell you this, how I was gonna try to let you know why I'm here. Well, the only way I can explain it is in the same way Twilight does when she's reading one of her science books."
He giggled to himself a little bit.
"Yeah, I know… I'm not the smartest little dragon. But… but I do listen when she's telling me important stuff, I really do, and I think I really get this part. You see, Equestria, it's kind of like an experiment." Spike said as he rolled his hands over and over, the left into the right and back again, fighting for words as though he were remembering a line in a play or a practiced speech.
"Equestria is a experiment, you see, I think. I think it's an experiment that Princess Celestia has been nursing along for a long time. A really long time. A really, really, really long time. It's an experiment about friendship and interdeep…intradee…interdeprend…how we rely on one another."
Spike rolled his eyes, didn't bother to look down to Discord. He imagined the spirit smirking at him from behind the stone eyes.
"Yeah, I know. Well, you see, in an experiment there are these things called variables. I think. If I'm getting what it said in Twilight's books right," spoke the little dragon, becoming self-conscious as he did. "I'm sorry if I don't get this part right. I-I hope I'm not boring you, but I think you need to know where I'm coming from with all this. I-I need... I need you to understand why it has to be this way."
"So, these variables, they're the parts of the experiment that can change. Now, if I've got this right there are two types of variables, one that you can plan for, and one that you can't."
Having reached the end of Discord's tail Spike spun around and began walking back up his spine, kicking debris off of the stone as he went. "Now, Princess Celestia… she's really smart. She's really powerful, too. If Equestria really is an experiment, then she would've planned for you, you see, because you are really powerful too. And smart. Kind of scary, really."
"So, I think, that they knew you. I bet you were even friends, or at least on good terms. I mean, come on, chaos is a part of life. They knew that, they know life isn't any fun without the unexpected. They knew that you were part of the experiment, right? You were a variable that was part of the experiment, are part of it, an important part."
Having reached the end of Discord's tail once more Spike simply stood and stared off into the distance, not turning back to face the draconequus as he made his accusation.
"But, but that didn't work for you did it, huh?"
Silence reigned. The only sound that covered them was the distant chirping of the birds and the pat, pat, pat of the leaves landing in the pond.
"Being part of a plan, especially one that would take a long, long, long, long, long time… it really didn't work for you, not your style. Who cares if it would all end up with every creature on this world living in peace, right? Snoozeville. It was boring… so, you had some fun with it."
"You changed yourself into a, oh, what does the book call it… an uncontrolled variable. You sparked off all this strife and hate, the wars that are still going on today… for fun? You're the reason Princess Celestia and Princess Luna are alone, aren't you? You, you are the reason why there no other alicorns, at least not until Princess Cadence came back, right? Maybe? I, I don't know how I know, but… but, I know that…"
It's interesting to hear this idea of Equestria being an experiment and people being the variables. It sounds like the reality of life. But Spike’s message really does hits home in about how Discord treats ponies more like toys than people like that of an irresponsible bully.
The message Spike gives is more meaningful as it’s meant to give Discord to reflect on his actions and moral compass and not the use of his chaotic powers which was the purpose of making Discord become a better person in the first place.
Granted the interpretation of Chaos and Order being Yin and Yang by Sunny Meadows is also interesting but does it really make him question his morality of hurting others? Discord only became a better person because he cared for somepony rather than somepony leading him on the right path.
Variables handle it better overall. Spike was on point with his speech throughout despite a few confusing bumps while the dialogue made in The Keepers of Discord by the Keepers never went anywhere in the reformation of Discord only until Sunny Meadows was born. Sunny Meadows dialogues are still worth reading though.
No offence to Sunny Meadows but Spike takes the point for Variables. Timing is everything in giving the important message to readers to understand and learn from.
3. Storyline or otherwise known as The “Reformation” of Discord
It’s all tied up so let’s look at the storyline.
Both with somewhat similar plots. But there are several differences that made them stand out.
The Keepers of Discord is shows a different approach to what Princess Celestia done with Discord’s Statue than in Keep Calm and Flutter On.
Granted Keep Calm and Flutter On was an okay episode but too short and rushed. The Keepers of Discord, on the other hand, took its’ time for Discord’s reformation.
A VERY long time. Generations in fact.
The in betweens in each timeframe gave a lot of open interpretation for readers as to what happens to the Keepers outside of caring for the statue.
The story gave enough yet gave so little.
In Variables, the events of Return of Harmony are long forgotten by everyone. Save for a lone dragon. Spike.
You really feel the sense of Discord being forgotten by the ponies of Equestria in just the beginning scene. Very effective as it leads to the conversation/speech that Spike does much later.
The birds sat chirping, their squeaks and squawks lifting on the still air of the cool afternoon. They danced about, their little claws making tiny scratching sounds upon the stone where they had perched. There they roosted and began to doze as the sun warmed the surface of the marble beneath them.
They let the sun wash over them, and the flock rested in the meadow as the morning wore on into afternoon. The birds went on about their day, snapping at the flies that came up from the margin around the little pond or grooming themselves, letting the dander and old feathers fall to the earth below or rest upon the stone.
The birds sat there, unaware of what they were resting upon, regaining their strength before they would wing off again and head south as autumn fell around them.
Long moments passed and in time a new sound interrupted their chirps. The sounds of a creature struggling with something heavy began to reach them, startling the birds. With a rush of feathers they lifted into the air and flew to the safety the trees along the edge of the meadow. There they once again rested, calling to one another in uncertainty and alarm. Soon enough the interloper revealed himself, and the birds went quiet as he approached the stone upon which they had been resting.
So it came to pass that the birds would be the only witnesses of what would happen on the edge of the pond where the tall rushes were growing brown in autumn's spell.
Discord lay there, his unmoving eyes set in an constant gaze as the interloper, the trespasser who had disturbed the birds, came closer. Once more locked away inside a tomb of stone, a living statue, he sat there in the same pose in which he had been frozen months before. He had been dragged from the center of Ponyville and left there, unceremoniously dumped in the mud beside the pond. The Lord of Chaos—left alone in that distant place beyond the daily comings and goings of the ponies like so much refuse.
It was a quiet place… a place where memory of his brief, yet disruptive, rule would not trouble them. A place where the name of Discord could be disposed of, forgotten altogether in time…
...again.
In Variables, the conversations were more one-sided than in The Keepers of Discord. This was done to show the inner turmoil for Spike as he draws his own conclusions since he is the main focus. Readers can also interpret what Discord might reply back. But the problem was that some of the dialogue Spike said despite being on point in his argument was that some things he mention were kind of confusing.
"You, you and all of the other draconequuses...ess..esses... you were already around when it began, right? I mean, I don't know much about history, but it makes sense that the others were there with you, and the spirits like the one that became Nightmare Moon, and The Witches, too. You were all already here in this world before the alicorns came, right? You were all already here when Equestria was placed into this world… I think, maybe, and you all pretty much got along."
Witches... What? Was this from another story by The Descendant or something? If so why is it a standalone story then?
In The Keepers of Discord, you could read Discords’ thoughts which completed the second needed half of the conversation and provided some unique dialogue from Discord which gave the much needed comedy from a somewhat serious story.
The ending of Variables gives an open interpretation of what might happen next to Discord as Spike leaves the place much more mature than before. It turns out Spike intended to destroy Discord with some sort of Hammer of Justice relic? But decided not to fall down in Discord's path of destruction. This is a serious sort of ending for this story.
Spike stood and grabbed the hammer. He tugged at it with little sounds of effort, lifting it once more.
This time though he grabbed it and, with some effort, laid it among the lion paw and eagle leg.
"Can, can you see it? Is it where you can see it? I'm going to leave this here, okay? How random is that? Maybe...just, you know, maybe someday somepony, or any other thinking creature, could come along and find it."
Spike ran his clawed hands over his arms. The breeze was indeed coming up, and soon he would have to be off.
"Maybe, just maybe that creature, the one who finds the hammer, maybe they won't know that there's a living thing inside the stone. Maybe they'll just wanna take a whack, just for fun. Just for a little bit of, fun."
Spike shuddered a bit.
"Maybe it will be soon. Maybe in a couple of thousand years. Hey, it might never happen, it might never happen. Probably won't..."
Spike scowled. Some small part of him realized how stupid this must seem to the immortal spirit. As the breeze continued to blow he sped up his reasoning.
"It's just... that it can. It can happen, and it would just be that random, that one chaotic chance. That's what I want you to think about, okay? The idea that you too were under the control of chaos. For the centuries or millenia that it takes for you to be free again, that any of those days some creature could just have come along and, well... you know."
Spike looked over the still, silent form of the spirit of anarchy and the hammer that now sat so close by. The little dragon whelp looked up to Discord's eyes once more, and as he did he breathed one earnest hope.
"I hope that, before you're free again, that you can get wet in the chocolate milk that comes outta the sky. Maybe, just maybe, I hope, you'll remember who you are. I hope that you'll be a spirit of life again, and not just be a bully anymore..."
Spike took a few steps back and tilted his head. He danced his fingers a little before lifting them in a wave. "Goodbye," he called as he trotted up the hill. He called "Goodbye!" one last time, and with that he was gone.
The breeze shifted, and soon the gold, red, orange, and brown leaves began to fall upon the statue. As they did they began to cover the spirit of anarchy with their multitude, and the deep magic of the hammer beat a slow beat in rhythm to the life around it.
So it was that the hammer, like the albatross around the neck of the condemned mariner, sat firmly in the gaze of the immortal as he laid beneath his crown of grape vine.
The count towards the arrival of whatever variable would determine the outcome of the experiment began.
The soft falling of the leaves could be heard as they brushed against the stone and the autumn day slipped further into the golden afternoon. Overhead geese called to one another as the little birds in the tree continued to roost and prepare for their journey.End.
But The Keepers of Discord does exactly the same thing in terms of interpretations of what might happen next but on a more bittersweet note that is by far is way more interesting and emotional.
You see, Discord grew to care for his third keeper. With Sunny Meadows thoughts of Order and Chaos. Her laughter. The willingness to stay positive despite all that has happened to her. Discord was definitely devastated to hear she was no more. Leading to his own internal conflict by the end of the story as he debates what should be do now that he was free.
This is especially more heartfelt in the final letter Discord reads from Sunny Meadow’s Will. Link here.
That Letter gave The Keepers of Discord the winning point. That tragic ending to such a wonderful character which gave birth to a dawning in the possible reformation for Discord was a great build up and pay off. The better way to give readers to question. “Will Discord choose to be reformed in the end?” than the serious open-ended ending in Variables.
And so The Keepers of Discord reigns supreme.
I read both these stories in the same day so I couldn’t help but find that Variables could be a prequel to The Keepers of Discord if you look at it the right way. You know? In Variables, Spike meets Discord statue. Spike gives him some food for thought. Then Princess Celestia comes in, leading to the events of The Keepers of Discord.
Both stories have their goods and bads but both are enjoyable stories to read.
This is MixMassBasher signing out.
A present for Hoopy McGee.
Dear Sunny Meadows,
I know that you are no longer in the realm of the living. But I need to get this off my chest.
I’m back!!! Flesh and Blood and not Stone and Marble. The gardens are still tended to this day by your dear children. Other ponies help too now. I’ll spare you the details of what they do.
There’s a statue of you in the gardens now in your honour... since your passing... but frankly the statue should have been wayyyy larger cause you’re worth more than any Chocolate Rain or Glass of Water for what you’ve done to me.
I saw you growing up. Laughing. Cheering. Not a care in the world. I saw a pony who understood chaos. But also understood the need for order. I saw you fall in love. Get married. Have children. But I also saw you heartbroken by your lover.
I would wish that stallion would burn in Tartarus but that’s a story for another day.
To me, you became more than just a keeper. You became the family I never knew I wanted or needed. I was alone in my existence. Me and chaos. No one else. You taught me that there’s more to it than just that.
You were by far the best keeper of me. You open my eyes to things that, despite being an immortal whom can change the very essence of this universe, realise he did not truly knew.
Thank you.
And now. As I write this letter. I will assure you that your legacy will never be in vain.... I’ll promise you that.
The one thing I regret not to do, with all my chaotic powers, was that I could not say to you in person... Goodbye.
I’ll miss you dearly.
Sincerely,
Mister Funny FaceDiscord
Oh well... can't win them all, I suppose.
3724923 Win or Lose both stories are worth reading
Thanks for the review/comparison! It's always interesting to see other people's takes on my stories
That's a pretty heartfelt letter from Discord to Sunny, so thanks for that too! Regarding this part of it:
In one of the reviews I listened to a while back, one of the reviewers (Illya Leonov) mentioned that Jumble most likely met a horrific fate after Discord was free. Naturally, that sparked an idea for a short follow-up where Jumble and Discord have a little chat.
I may even get around to writing it one day.
3724923
It's been a while since I read it, but I remember that really enjoyed Variables. And, while I haven't read every story of yours (not enough time, sorry!), the many that I have read have been excellent. I'm especially fond of your comedies: Children of a Lesser Dragon God Boy Whelp Thingy Guy, Super Amazing Rocket Sled of Awesome and Certain Advantages all had moments that got me laughing out loud, no exaggeration!
3725933
Thank you for saying so, Hoopy. You've certainly earned your reputation here on the site and in the community, and there is shame in paling in comparison to your works.
3725933 If you want you can post this letter I wrote in one of your blogpost or as a final ending to The Keepers of Discord. I don't mind.