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Evowizard25


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  • 237 weeks
    Episode reviews: Uprooted/ Between Dark and Dawn/ A Trivial Pursuit

    Okay, quick talk about three episodes. I know I haven't been doing these weekly but I am behind on mlp. Season 8 wasn't... as good as I would have hoped so I stopped keeping track each week. My bad. Season 9, from what I've seen, has picked up the slack. So there's some positive. I'm going to try and watch at least 2 or 3 episodes a day until I get caught up. Don't worry, I'll be ready for the

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  • 247 weeks
    Episode Review: Father Knows Best/School Raze

    1: Father Knows Best

    Well this is it folks. I have finally finished season 8.... I think it's my least favorite season. Not entirely bad, but just not as good as others. I'm surprised really. I never thought I'd see a day I'd like a season less then season 4 but here it is. So let's start off by going over the last two episodes of this season shall we?

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  • 248 weeks
    Episode Review: The Road to Friendship/The Washouts

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  • 248 weeks
    New Chapter coming soon (The Greatest Treasure/Fate Pony)

    Heyo everyone. It seems I've got my writing mojo back. Well now I've finally started the next chapter of TGT and my Fate pony fic. They should be done by the weekend if not tomorrow. I hope it'll be worth the wait.

    2 comments · 483 views
  • 249 weeks
    (Spoiler review) What Lies Beneath


    Still need to catch up on season 8. Don't worry. I won't be out of the loop once season 9 ends. I plan on binging the show until then. So hopefully I'll get a review done a day. So let's start with this one.

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    0 comments · 379 views
Jan
6th
2016

Villain Redemptions and the General Hypocrisy therof. · 12:48am Jan 6th, 2016

Hello and welcome my faithful viewers. I wanted to talk about something that's been bugging me lately. Namely, villains and their redemption's. Now FIM, as you are aware, has redeemed a number of characters. Of course, given that the nature of the show is about love and friendship, this isn't all that surprising, however it seems we the fans are split whenever they are done. {Of course, the fandom is known to erupt on numerous occasions, so it's a bit of another hypocrisy when thinking on our newest addition to this roster.}

Our latest addition to the villain roster is Starlight Glimmer, joining the other three villains: Luna, Sunset, and Discord. {I am not going to be adding antagonists here since this is focusing on villains.} Now it's no secret that I love the season 5 finale and it's my favorite finale so far, I was surprised by the general hate this got. Like every season finale beforehand {I've bumped into a couple people who hate The Best Night Ever} there is always going to be a split on if it's good or not. This is typical of any fandom, especially this one. However, what surprised me the most was the shere hate that was given, especially to Starlight Glimmer.

Now when I first saw Starlight and how she escaped, one of my first thoughts is that she would be redeemed sometime by the season 5 finale, so I'm not surprised that they did. This goes down to a number of reasons, but I'll talk about that later. I was shocked that so many people either didn't want Starlight to be reformed or didn't see it coming. The reasonings many have pointed out to was that Starlight's ideology was terrible and that she was a kind of villain that should be locked up.

While her ideology was flawed, Starlight was an inevitability. Pony society exemplifies marks, puts them on pedestals to show the world your talent and your place in the world. However, we've seen how there are ponies {Troubleshoes} who misinterpret or hate their own marks as well as with {DT and her mom} ponies who look down on those without marks as unworthy and juvenile. A society that actively exemplifies their talents and marks is bound to produce someone like Starlight.

We see it in Legend of Korra with Amon and bending and we see it here in Starlight. I have no doubt that there were 'Starlights' before and there will be after, it's just that Starlight had the sheer talent to do it.

There should also be another point to be brought up. In the season opener, Starlight's plans and ideology would never be a real threat to Equestria as a whole. Starlight is only one mare. An incredibly gifted and clever mare, but one mare in total. Given how she has about a century to live and how her plans derived from never being found out, it was a very shaky foundation, nor would it become a big movement, since cutie marks are still highly revered. Eventually, either before or after her death, it would fade away since I doubt that she can 'activate' her spell until a cutie mark appears and that she would need to trust another to keep their mark to carry out the spell, which is another risk. While the plan is clever, it was never a long term one and wouldn't become a threat to rival Equestria, like the other 3 villains would have.

Starlight's spell on the main six, while a bit depressing, wasn't on the scale of Discord's, which turned you instantly and given Fluttershy's remark, they were all fully aware of what was happening but could do nothing. {Which I find horrifying.} It's sort of a proto-Discording spell and the mare's seemed to tough it out quite well. It's either out of past experiences, or it's just that the spell doesn't 'change' more so it suppresses till you just accept it. So you can still keep some of your self, it's just that you can't continue your talent with much success.

Discord himself was very much sadistic by choice, while Starlight was in the wrong by perceived good intentions. However, if I was to say my opinion, a sadistic choice done for nothing more than a person's own pleasure and they very much know that it's wrong, is well, the one I'm less likely to route for and makes redeeming these types all that much harder. A character like him doesn't think of people as people, but as things.

Which is why his break out redemption episode, to me, was very hard to swallow.

Broken Spirit a fanfic that had an eerily similar concept of Discord being reformed by Fluttershy. In the story, Discord is wounded and without his power so he needs the support of the ponies and can't do anything actively terrible. The process takes months and it's a very heartwarming story. {I highly recommend it.}

With Keep Calm and Flutter On, the pacing and emotions were off. The sense of time was strange as I can't tell if it's just happening all in one day or over a week's time and the build up to his reformation was, not the most satisfactory. Discord has the benefit out of all the others of having an episode dedicated to his first redemption point and this episode is rather divisive. There are a number of people, such as ILOVEKIMPOSSIBLE who adore this episode and how it's presented. To which I say, more power to you. {A saying I wish more people would take to heart, instead of demeaning others for differing opinions.}

And then we have Sunset Shimmer, another character who was very divisive when she came out, though she wasn't winning over anyone's hearts like Discord did. {I liked it, but more so because she was a hilarious parody of every mean girl in a movie ever.}

How can you take this seriously? It's hilarious!

She earned so much ire that people were calling her redemption fake and that she was still evil or writing hatefics, laughing at her plans {which is infamous for it's intentions}. Sunset was willing to endanger/take over her home world and this all sprang forth from Celestia telling her no and to wait.

Yeah, Sunset, given what we know in the movie and her comic, was a very self-centered mare and lived the life of luxury. Her attitude, how she present herself, and the fact that she was a citizen of Canterlot easily suggest that she had everything given to her. Celestia was the first one to say no to her {after Sunset had started going on a 'I should be an alicorn' trip}. Said trip was always thrown into Celestia's face and many called Sunset petty.

It's funny since Sunset's redemption and the reaction mirror Luna on the former and Starlight to the latter.
Both Sunset and Luna were hit by the Elements of Harmony and changed to good. We had to wait about a year for either of them to get development and in Luna's case, she was a favored member of the community. It struck me as a bit odd, though I could understand. Neither of them were break out characters, with Nightmare Moon in her first appearance being rather basic as did Sunset in her role. Of course, Luna got a pass because we weren't a fandom back then. This was the first episode, setting a pretense for the show.

A pretense of redemption that I think we don't always remember.

Sunset, unfortunately, gained ire for involvement in Equestria Girls and how far we had become. The show had grown and so did the audience's numbers. It was a human teen movie, which in itself got people to froth at the mouth. A lot of people now knew ponies could be smart and innovative. A 'standard' character wasn't so welcomed anymore, nor the resolution.

As I was there in the fandom when it happened, I know what I'm saying that many of the things people have said to Sunset are mirrored by what has been said against Starlight. To an extent, of course. There's the same hate and unwillingness to accept her, but then comes the hypocrisy. I have said my peace on some other sites on the fact of Sunset Shimmer being hated in a similar fashion and the resounding response I received was I was wrong. Many people said Sunset wasn't that hated, or they actively enjoyed them. Either many of them weren't there, or, as I saw, some of them had forgotten or didn't want to admit it. {Since among-st said people, I noticed a number that didn't like Sunset in the first movie, some of them being very vocal of the hate.} It's baffling to me as was the hate I gathered by many people for the comparison.

Well, let's see what I thought of the redemption 'on-point'. Starlight, like the others before their redemptions, was immoral. However, I want to point out something. The other three had done things for selfish desires, only wishing to help themselves. Starlight is different, in that her desire was a well-intended, but rather twisted sense of justice.

So unlike Luna and Sunset, the show took a more 'Discord'-esque type of redemption, talking the person down. However, I found something here that fit it better than with Discord's on-point redemption.

A moment of weakness. Starlight's whole reason for wishing Twilight harm was that she believed she was in the right. She believed that so badly that this very moment broke her. She was emotionally hurt and vulnerable and this was the perfect moment for Twilight to work her magic. Twilight knew she needed to break Starlight by showing her that her ideology was wrong, not with words but with actions and then show her a new way. It's why Starlight flipped when Twilight mentioned it was ridiculous {poor choice of words}. It's funny that people forget that the main six have flipped over little things. Lesson Zero's very lesson was exactly this and that's why Twilight was the better for giving Starlight a chance.


Some of you might remember Kung Fu Panda 2. Brilliant movie and this was one of the best moments of it. Po confronting Shen, the very creature who slaughtered his people and his family, who took everything away from him and had been trying to kill him throughout the movie. What does Po do? Does he kill Shen himself or try and throw him in jail? No, he asks that Shen stop. He offers Shen a moment of redemption. He wants Shen to be better and move away from the past. This is a message that should be given out more. It's one given in the Lion King as well, but I thought Po's delivery here was better because of the context.

Starlight is the Shen of this and Twilight the Po. Both offer friendship and redemption in spite of what so many others would do or say, even though both were immoral because they perceived themselves in the right. That's why both Po and Twilight are incredibly strong characters, rising them above their opposition and that's why it's so baffling that there are so many decrying for death or severe punishment of Starlight.

Starlight was broken. Her ideology was jossed because that very moment in the ashland, she saw that everything she had ever believed and strived for, would amount to nothing. That she had lived her life for nothing.

Let's move on to the last bit, before I finish this up with post-redemptions. Starlight's central point backstory.

I don't care what they say. I will hug this cutie~

This is one of the big deal-breaker for a lot of people. What a lot of people don't get is that this isn't Starlight's complete backstory. This was the central point. This is where the hate started. Harmony Charmer said it best in her review of the episode and I would reccomend Milesprower06 and his two Starlight stories for added bonus.

The point I will make is that people seem to focus on this as though this was the sole reason why Starlight did what she did, instead of it just being a focal point. We don't know what happened in between then and Our Town. There were so many years in between and it's ludicrous to say that it happened over night. Yet it's treated like a Doofensmirtz-esque evil plan by many, when it isn't.

We've seen in the show

Cutie mark hate

Cutie mark misunderstandings and ire

And disvalue for being a blank flank.

Given how Fluttershy's insecurities spring from bullying, as do many in real life, it's safe to say that Starlight was a victim of many of these.

Another point to add is the fact that Apple Bloom went through a similar trial after Twist got her cutie mark. {And thus Twist was demoted to small time extra and no longer Bloom's friend, or something or another.} The point that differentiates them is that Apple Bloom has a loving family who would be quick to correct Bloom if she ever started acting out and the fact that soon afterwards Apple Bloom was offered friendship by two other ponies that were facing similar problems in Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo.

Children need intervention when expressing such loss, because if it's not dealt with, it will lead to serious consequences down the line. Given how Starlight acts and thinks, it's obvious Starlight didn't have the love and support of family and no one really wanted to be there when she need them most. Her friend left her and as a child, she wouldn't know what to do. I personally moved around a lot as a child {father was in the army} and made friends in some schools. It's just that whenever I moved, I didn't know if I should contact my friends, if they would remember me, and such. It eventually came to a point where I didn't bother and I didn't want to make friends and it became hard to do so later. Friendship isn't easy, which we've seen so far in this show.

Post Redemptions
This is another point in this argument. Often times, when Starlight and Sunset are compared, Rainbow Rocks is factored into the argument. This is not a factor. That was a separate movie, a post-redemption showcasing Sunset's character after her villainous outbreak. Sunset is a breakout character for her 'post' redemption, not her 'on-point' redemption. Whether you thought it was rushed or not, this show has done well in post-redemption showcases.

Luna: Luna Eclipsed, Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep
Two episodes showcasing Luna's reasonings and coming to term with her insanity as Nightmare Moon.

Sunset Shimmer: Rainbow Rocks, Friendship Games
Two movies showcasing Sunset can and did change, evolving her into a great character. {And my waifu~}

MINE!

Discord: Twilight's Kingdom, Make New Friends but Keep Discord
These, I believe, are the best Discord episodes evolving his character and show that reforming him could lead to great potential.

If you don't believe me with how she was reformed 'on-point', then just remember what the show's done before. The show has always handled post-redeemed characters with dignity and shown they can and will change. That's why I love this show. Anyone can change. Anyone can be given friendship and a second chance. It's high time we stopped and remembered that, nor is this the only show that has done this.

Fairy Tail, which I lovingly call the anime-brother to FIM, gives this lesson as well.

With Gajeel, a sadist, becoming a fan favorite and becoming an all around nice guy and a big part of the cast after his reformation. Starlight, if what is hinted is correct, could very well become something like Gajeel. A former antagonist with moral questionability, who becomes a fan favorite. Sunset has shown it can be done with us. Why can't we give Starlight a chance?

I for one believed it was the best on-point redemption so far. Whether it'll lead to great post-redemption moments, we'll see in season 6. They've done well explaining reasonings and such so far, especially this season. I look forward to more of her soon enough.

Report Evowizard25 · 1,712 views ·
Comments ( 27 )

A fascinating and well thought out write up, and one I thoroughly enjoyed reading. Have a cookie!

I think the problem with Starlight's redemption is it did happen admittedly a tad fast. Discord had effectively 3 episodes (counting Season 4's finale) where he flip flopped before securing his stable spot. Sunset Shimmer did change by the end of the first movie and it was a tad quick then, but we get to see she wasn't accepted by everyone right away and it took another movie to do the job.

Starlight Glimmer's change pretty much happened in the last ten minutes of an episode, and judging from the ending montage it seems like everything is hunky-dory good afterwards. While I disagree with Lily Peet half the time with Starlight, I will agree with him in stating there was a huge missed opportunity for her to have an episode returning to The Town in season 6 and having a very tense, mistrust where she had to regain the trust of the townsfolk she so wronged. Had Starlight's realization been more gradual, like the time-spell flew out of control and she got dragged along with Twilight into the villain worlds, I think it would have worked a bit better.

Another problem with Starlight I think could have been handled better is if one of the season 5 episodes had been devoted to Twilight learning her backstory. That way the possible bullying she might have gone through would be made known and why she never tried something as simple as making a new friend, or writing to her lost friend; could be shown. Because honestly, without the inferences I've seen some make like your bullying idea and the thought she might be an orphan so losing the friend was like losing a family member; her motivation is a tad flat.

3666991 Thanks for reading, though I would point out what happened in Luna Eclipsed could very well happen here. In her first appearance, she was welcomed into town with open hooves, but her second one was met with fear and she had to work on it. Starlight wasn't shown being accepted by the whole town, but by just four individuals, who probably still don't trust her fully but are willing to forgive her since a part of them wanted to believe she truly was their friend during their stay.

While that is true, this show does tend to, well, suck at foreshadowing an episode through such things. It's usually done mostly through themes and ideas. The themes and episodes this season do effectively explain why Starlight does what she does if you take in other episodes into account, which is also true of Twilight's Kingdom and Magical Mystery Cure {both Magic Duel and The Crystal Empire's themes and messages helped to set her up as a princess, though some would say it needed another solely to get it to fruitation} For what it is, I think it is clever when you look at it and the show has always done well to expand and explain reasonings and redemptions, like Luna and Diamond Tiara.

Nor do I think it will be entirely missed, since season 3's ending had Twilight being accepting of her role and flying, and then in season 4's with the Crystal Tree and the loss of her library, both addressed and explained effectively early on in the next seasons. Given this, I can't fault the episode for having similar things happen here.

As well, I don't consider it flat as I stated she was an inevitability {the concept of sameness} and childhood trauma put her above Discord's. {Yeah, I'm going to be honest when I say I'm not a big Discord fan. I like him, but...yeah, it's hard to sympathize with him.}

3667037 Almost forgot about him and I'm a DBZ Abridged fan. :facehoof:
Still, thanks for reading and commenting. I just really got tired of all the hate {and being bashed on other sites for liking Starlight and the finale} so I just decided to state my opinion here. I'm just glad I'm not alone.

3667047 I have learned my lesson. I'm never going back to the site again. For now on, it's deviantart and google images.

Very intrigue, you have gone and made me think. I like how much effort you put into this.

Originally, my headcanon is that she used to have a group of friends when she was much younger. But over time they drifted apart because each on of her friends got their Cuite Marks.

PS. I to would want to hug filly Starlight.

Thank you for writing this.

3667079 Given how he lets the cannon fall on him and closes his eyes, I think a part of him knew he was wrong and wanted to die. It's just that he was too set in his ways to accept Po's offer.

I agree with you, but I will say one other thing that's important:

Every redeemed villain has shown genuine remorse and regret for their crimes at least ONCE.

Discord multiple times in Twilight's kingdom, Sunset in the follow ups (and right at her defeat), Diamond when Silver finally has enough, Gilda when she remembers how things used to be with Rainbow, ect.

My big problem with the comics is they treat removing the reason to do wrong as an actual REDEMPTION, which even Sunset showed is more than 'I don't have a reason to be a bad guy anymore, so I'm not one', she showed actual guilt, even if it was sudden.

The picture you posted of Starlight is a BIG example of what I mean.

3667115 Forgot to add that part, thanks. Yeah, while I do like the comics, at least some of them, they can... be iffy at times, or enraging in others.

Yay for characterization of villains! :D

3667067 No problem. I had to get this off my chest after reading a few... rather mean spirited stories.

What a lot of people don't get is that this isn't Starlight's complete backstory.

THANK YOU!

I for one believed it was the best on-point redemption so far.

I'd personally go with Diamond Tiara's redemption, but that's more my personal bias since I hated DT, but didn't like the fact that I hated her, whereas Starlight fell more in the "love-to-hate" category while she was an antagonist.

There's one other key factor people forget when complaining about Starlight's backstory:
They say that she should have tried to keep in contact with Sunburst. While that is true, she's not the only one to blame. Sunburst could also have tried to contact her, but it's implied that he never did.

3668997 Well, I was keeping it to major villain instead of including the plethora of reformed antagonists. DT is my favorite redemption in total, but Starlight's was the most impactful, if that makes sense.

It's very simple to think that they both just put it off. Sunburst with his intense studies and Starlight because she was afraid he'd reject her. The longer you wait, the harder something is to do. If Starlight moved around like I did as a kid, it's rather easy to lose touch with close friends.

3669040 Technically speaking, DT was more or less the major villain for the CMC, but I get what you mean. And yeah, I agree that out of the major villains' redemptions, Starlight's is the best.

And that does make sense as well. I just brought that up as something that people tend to forget.

A great essay. One thing I feel like needs to be pointed out about Starlight Glimmer: She didn't need a rainbow laser of brainwashing/petrification/deus ex machina, or even the threat of it, to get Starlight to reform. Twilight talked Starlight Glimmer down with words alone, which to me is a much better example of friendship than crushing your foes.

Also keep in mind that the whole reformation scenes we saw were part of a montage, so who knows how long they represent? I figure the whole thing was 2-3 months of slow progress.

3669135 So have the previous two seasons, with Twilight's Princesshood and her flight coming into issue in season 3
and her castle in Castle Sweet Castle in season 5
I expect it to be a recurring theme. {If she does appear as a member, I'm stoke. Former villains are amongst my fave characters, such as the character Gajeel and Vegeta {TFS version.}}

That aspect is why I just love it so much, because unlike Discord's turn, I felt and believed this one. It was just so heartwarming and gave me such a good feeling. {And then I went onto the internet and I felt terrible.}

To be honest, I hate reformation plots.
If you want to make a villain, do him.
If you want to make an antagonist, do an antagonist, and not a villain. A lot of stories would work better if antagonist has a point. In this case there is no need for 'redemption' , only for a change of plans. Which is also pretty common IRL.

Hell, a lot of problems of Sunset and Starlight are because they simple care. Sunset cares for Celestia's approval while Starlight for some reason cares about people in general. Both are wrong: people get what they deserve. Sunset's story could be great if she found that she don't care about Celestia anymore and has her own goals. I didn't look past Starlight's intro, but pretty sure that for her something like this would work as well. But noooo, we have to bend two great, promising characters to show a family-friendly aesop. F**k it.

This is why I prefer fanfics. They are more variative and generally make a lot more sense.

Most fans, for whatever reason, want a villain who doesn't reform. We do have one already in the comics, as Queen Chrysalis has had multiple chances at reformed and has turned them all down simply because she likes being a villain. We also have plenty of antagonists who are unlikely to become good or become full on villains, like the Flim Flam Brothers (who were heavily flanderized after their first appearance, which is a shame in my opinion). And we have friendly antagonists like Trixie, who are in no way bad (or at least, do nothing villainous, harmful or illegal), but events set them against Twilight and her friends.

I'm glad that they have these reform plots because they cannot be resolved in a single episode, creating a reason to keep watching and bringing back the character, and because I consider this to be one of friendship's greatest achievements, the power to help and improve someone who is misguided or bad.

I don't want a recurring villain that doesn't get reformed (Starlight is actually the show's only example of such a villain, since the goal of Keep Calm and Flutter On was to reform Discord, though the comics has had a few). I fear it would undermine the very message of the show and that more time would be spent preparing for the next big bad (something the series skirted the line with in regards to Tirek) rather than focusing on what the show is really about, which is friendship. A few minor antagonists every once in a while is all we really need with a real villain to shake things up during two-parters.

I thought I was the only one who thought Starlight was being crucified over nothing. Well maybe not nothing but how can nobody see this redemption coming or wanting her dead so much?

Discord got it. Trixie, kinda got one, Sunset got three movies dedicated to her redemption and its growth. Heck even DT and Silver got to. So why not little Star?

3700428 Proper Prose, just below you, had put it best in saying fans want a villain that doesn't reform....Which we do have a number of, but that isn't factored in or ignored. It also comes down to her philosophy and sadly, to this day, there are a number of people who do take issue if someone doesn't hold their beliefs or how the world works.

It's ironic since, as I stated, Sunset was given similar treatment by the fandom, to which I'm usually brushed off when I mention it. I was surprised by the level of this 'hate', since I personally found it rather heartwarming. I expected some hate {Every episode has a few people who hate it. I know. I've seen pretty much every episode, including Pinkie Pride and Amending Fences, on hated episode lists.} but not this much.

3700439 I agree the amount of hate for her is astronomical. I made a ballsy move by posting this postin the Starlight Doesn't Deserve Forgiveness group. That was a lot of fun. You have some interesting points on Starlight and other villains in media.

3700455 .....I wish you were joking about a group called that, but then again, this is the same fandom that made the Conversion Bearua and 'evil' Celestia a thing.

3700466 Yeah, so now I gotta ask, who is you favorite character that was either reformed or needs one?

For me it's Lightning Dust. I feel she needed something more because it was both her and Rainbow's fault for the tornado that almost wiped out her friends. Granted Lightning was a dick about it but I always thought we didn't know enough about her to really decided what to do with her. Plus the ending with her losing her badge wasn't much in the way of explanations AND Spitfire is a huge HUGE DICK?MORON. I mean she sold out her teammate for Rainbow Dash during Rainbow falls when Soarin got hurt.

In a lot of ways she was no better than Lightning Dust... Hmm. I'm gonna write a fic about this now. Thanks for helping with inspiration!

3700476 No problem. Always happy to help someone out when it comes to writing.

As for my favorite character who's been reformed, I think it's a bit obvious I'm a big Sunset Shimmer fan. :twilightblush: I wasn't a big fan of her in the first movie nor how she reformed. I wasn't angry with her, just not impressed and it happened in the span of a snap of the fingers. However, her actions in Rainbow Rocks and Friendship Games made me just love her so much. :heart: Starlight's a close second because of how she reformed {which is the best on-point redemption so far} and because she was such a fun antagonist.

I have to agree about Lightning Dust needs a chance to change, which if I remember was going to happen in the episode's ending but was cut for time. I didn't even consider her an antagonist, since it was Spitfire who was putting all that pressure just to go with it onto Rainbow and Rainbow could have put her hoof down about the tornado. {The Wonderbolt's seriously need to find a way to quarantine a training zone so stuff like that doesn't get civilians.}

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